RevLeft in General and What the Future Holds?

[El Louton]

Comrades!

I've been on this site for around four months, sometimes I love it but sometimes I do not! I've seen a lot of praise for RevLeft on the internet and a pile of criticism! The scales aren't exactly equal but I guess we all know that.

However I was wondering what you think of the site and have you got any criticism's of it. And if so, how would you improve it?

Personally I think RevLeft is brilliant but we need to get back to the 'politics' and stop sending pictures of 'Lolcatz' etc. We need to get more serious and get organised. Yet I still love it.

Secondly I would like to know what you think the future holds for RevLeft and how we can attract more people to RevLeft and ultimately to a leftist viewpoint.

Thank you

El Louton

[ColonelCossack]

Though I sort of agree with your position, we need to be able to laugh at ourselves. Lolcatz r essential. Y u no like lolcatz?

Sorry, that was terrible. I won't do that again, I promise. :blushing:

[Bardo]

Personally I think RevLeft is brilliant but we need to get back to the 'politics' and stop sending pictures of 'Lolcatz' etc. We need to get more serious and get organised.

Why? RL isn't a political organization it's a message board. The theory forum and sometimes the politics forum has serious discussion going on without alot of absurdities. What is an online forum without lolcatz and troll faces?? :D

[Parvati]

Hi Comrades!
I agree with you : what I find the most interesting about RevLeft is the possibility to discuss politically on essential questions with people from around the world. I think that the questions asked in the "Learning" section are generally pretty good ones, or interesting reflections, but generally the answers are bad. Like "What's a stalinist?" "Somebody who loves Stalin". X_X

After this, I think that we could use this kind of forum to have deeper discussions on certain topics. As I believe that the Internationalism is something quite important for a revolutionary action, we should be the "worthy successors"(^.^) of Marx, Lenin and all the authors who spend an important part of their lives discussing politics in a serious way. Without pretension, of course, I think that being more relevant could help many people to have a revolutionary practice in real life - as I am fundamentally against "Living Room revolutionaries"

[El Louton]

Though I sort of agree with your position, we need to be able to laugh at ourselves. Lolcatz r essential. Y u no like lolcatz?

Sorry, that was terrible. I won't do that again, I promise. :blushing:


I think Lolcatz make the forum look childish and unprofessional.

[Smyg]

Well that's too bad for you.

[El Louton]

Why? RL isn't a political organization it's a message board. The theory forum and sometimes the politics forum has serious discussion going on without alot of absurdities. What is an online forum without lolcatz and troll faces?? :D

What I'm saying is that RevLeft is the 'home of the revolutionary left' not a chit- chat forum which is the 'home of Lolcatz and etc'

I'm not advocating we become a political organisation- that would never work we have to many tendencies and many differences! I'm just suggesting we take a more serious position?

[ColonelCossack]

I think Lolcatz make the forum look childish and unprofessional.

They do normally stay confined to Chit-Chat...

You have a point though.

[El Louton]

Hi Comrades!
I agree with you : what I find the most interesting about RevLeft is the possibility to discuss politically on essential questions with people from around the world. I think that the questions asked in the "Learning" section are generally pretty good ones, or interesting reflections, but generally the answers are bad. Like "What's a stalinist?" "Somebody who loves Stalin". X_X

After this, I think that we could use this kind of forum to have deeper discussions on certain topics. As I believe that the Internationalism is something quite important for a revolutionary action, we should be the "worthy successors"(^.^) of Marx, Lenin and all the authors who spend an important part of their lives discussing politics in a serious way. Without pretension, of course, I think that being more relevant could help many people to have a revolutionary practice in real life - as I am fundamentally against "Living Room revolutionaries"

I agree with you on the bad answers Comrade although I may provide a few of them! Perhaps Revleft needs a section or sub-forum for more 'deeper and serious' discussions?

[Leftsolidarity]

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/digitalcontent/lolcats28apr2008.jpg



:)



But I think I get what you mean. I wish Revleft was utilized more as a tool for organization and progress. I think it is a good way for us to all talk and mature our beliefs though.

[El Louton]

They do normally stay confined to Chit-Chat...

You have a point though.

They are supposed to stay to confined to Chit-Chat. But thanks for agreeing- it's good for the ego!

[SocialistTommy]

In the wise words of the joker....'why so serious ?':)

[El Louton]

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/digitalcontent/lolcats28apr2008.jpg



:)



But I think I get what you mean. I wish Revleft was utilized more as a tool for organization and progress. I think it is a good way for us to all talk and mature our beliefs though.

I'm not *****ing but those 'Lolcatz' immediately drag these posts down and make the thread and forum look like a chit-chat forum.

However I do agree with you totally that 'Revleft utilized more as a tool for organization and progress.' What would be your suggestions for achieving this?

[El Louton]

In the wise words of the joker....'why so serious ?':)

Because the Revolutionary Left should be serious as at the moment not many people take us seriously!

[ColonelCossack]

Because the Revolutionary Left should be serious as at the moment not many people take us seriously!

http://www.punjabigraphics.com/images/11/why-so-serious-cat.jpg

lol jk I just couldn't resist... :rolleyes:

You're right though, we do need to set an example to proles and would-be commies or would-be anarchists... and we certainly aren't taken seriously.

People take fascist nut jobs and fundies more seriously than us! But it's still vital to be able to laugh at ourselves, or we get all stuffy, bureaucratic and corrupt, like the people we're trying to replace... (lolz at my tendency)

[El Louton]

http://www.punjabigraphics.com/images/11/why-so-serious-cat.jpg

lol jk I just couldn't resist... :rolleyes:

This just proves my point.

[Ostrinski]

How about if you don't like lolcats pics you don't have to post them tool.

[SocialistTommy]

hahaha quality colenalcossack :laugh:

[ColonelCossack]

This just proves my point.



You're right though, we do need to set an example to proles and would-be commies or would-be anarchists... and we certainly aren't taken seriously.

People take fascist nut jobs and fundies more seriously than us! But it's still vital to be able to laugh at ourselves, or we get all stuffy, bureaucratic and corrupt, like the people we're trying to replace... (lolz at my tendency)

.

[El Louton]

How about if you don't like lolcats pics you don't have to post them tool.

I've never posted one and don't plan too. But again like so many serious threads on this forum we immediately get side-tracked onto some stupid childish distraction. This is our main problem, not spammers or idiots from Stormfront but distractions.

[El Louton]

.

Oh sorry didn't see the bottom point. People do not take us seriously and we need to change that as soon as we can! This is why racist organisations like the BNP do better than us. They are trying to look professional and for the first and last time as a leftist, sadly we need to take a leaf out of their book and try and become more professional.

We need to sort our problems and fix them.

[El Louton]

Anyway I would like to get back to the point. What do you think of the site and how can we improve it? Secondly what the future holds for RevLeft and how we can attract more people to RevLeft and ultimately a 'Leftist' viewpoint of some sort.

[Bardo]

How about we meet in the middle?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKCLr3F0BOhbJ6xJPgenEKGSZg3Wxk6 ca1FAdTq7o0tJ597UsPry56ptG9fQ

[El Louton]

How about we meet in the middle?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKCLr3F0BOhbJ6xJPgenEKGSZg3Wxk6 ca1FAdTq7o0tJ597UsPry56ptG9fQ

This was a sensible thread but it's been ruined by Lolcatz again. You don't seem to care. This is now the reputation of the far-left.

[Zukunftsmusik]

This was a sensible thread but it's been ruined by Lolcatz again. You don't seem to care. This is now the reputation of the far-left.

It's not like everyone visits this forum to see what the far-left means, is it? It's not like we represent the whole revolutionary movement either. My point is; not that many people visit this forum, also I don't think that everyone judges the whole far-left politics on one forum?

I don't see that many lolcatz around here. In fact this thread have more lolcatz than I've ever seen on this forum. I have more problems with tendency wars and people derailing threads, not taking "dumb" questions seriously etc. There are some serious threads, there are some even more serious threads and there are lots of not so serious threads. But the not-so-serious-ones mostly keep themselves to appropriate subforums.

[El Louton]

It's not like everyone visits this forum to see what the far-left means, is it? It's not like we represent the whole revolutionary movement either. My point is; not that many people visit this forum, also I don't think that everyone judges the whole far-left politics on one forum?

I don't see that many lolcatz around here. In fact this thread have more lolcatz than I've ever seen on this forum. I have more problems with tendency wars and people derailing threads, not taking "dumb" questions seriously etc. There are some serious threads, there are some even more serious threads and there are lots of not so serious threads. But the not-so-serious-ones mostly keep themselves to appropriate subforums.

No but we are representatives of the far-left and the left. We are quite a big website compared to many other forums though. There a still quite a few Lolcatz though. According to a quick google search, Revleft is the largest leftist forum in existence. We should cement our reputation as a solid leftist forum and be taken seriously!

[Commissar Rykov]

No but we are representatives of the far-left and the left. We are quite a big website compared to many other forums though. There a still quite a few Lolcatz though. According to a quick google search, Revleft is the largest leftist forum in existence. We should cement our reputation as a solid leftist forum and be taken seriously!
By not having fun? To the GULAG with fun!

[Red Economist]

I strongly agree with El Louton and Parvati on this: I like Revleft and the oppurtunity to talk to people with leftist views. Personally, I still find joining an organisation 'painful' because I am a bit anarchist, so Revleft is a good way to get to know 'what's out there'.

I think the only way you could 'raise the qaulity' of the debates is going to end up with a vanguard of sorts: a special Forum, group or tendencies for indepth dicussions.

the only other thing is a purge or a new forum (not advice btw, but an observation).

[hatzel]

I agree. This forum is the reason why we're not all wallowing in global communism already. If no leftist had ever posted a 'funny' picture on the internet, capitalism would have crumbled into dust. That's why we should always remember: every post we make is srs bizness. Super srs. And with every lolcat you guys post the revolution is pushed back another 6 months. I hope you're all proud of yourself...

Actually there are plenty of reasons the political Right puts the Left to shame. One of them being because the currently-existing (read: organised and 'official') Left is antiquated as fuck and is still stuck in early 20th century labour organising mode and spouting boring rhetoric that nobody would waste their life listening to, whilst the Right can always just fall back on the blame-game. Not that the Left doesn't try to do exactly the same thing in pretty much every other line of its rotten polemics, but the Right seem to be better suited to playing it, what with foreigners being obvious outsiders in our society. Much easier to assign blame to an already-existing out-group, rather than trying to create an out-group to then blame for all your woes.

In summary: if you're one of those people who blames everybody but yourself, then you're more likely to gravitate towards the Right, because literally their whole thing is just blaming everybody else for everything. If you actually bother to take responsibility for yourself, then you're more likely to look upon the Left as it stands with derision as it tries to cover up the ressentiment polluting its ranks. Which leaves only the Centre, which nobody in their right minds would go to, considering the fact that it's the very definition of impotence.

Those committed to real change have no choice but to look beyond the Left, beyond even the political, and surpass it in everything they do. And those still left clinging to their little organisations are only going to pick up the dregs, those too blind to see the possibilities lying beyond anything the 'official' Left could ever offer them.

...and at no point does this website or its reputation actually come into this...if it did, and if it were true that RevLeft somehow defines the progress of humanity, then I would seriously jump ship right now, abandon any hope in anything and probably just live out the rest of my days in my room eating dust off the floor in an attempt to avoid the complete shambles that is society...

[El Louton]

I strongly agree with El Louton and Parvati on this: I like Revleft and the oppurtunity to talk to people with leftist views. Personally, I still find joining an organisation 'painful' because I am a bit anarchist, so Revleft is a good way to get to know 'what's out there'.

I think the only way you could 'raise the qaulity' of the debates is going to end up with a vanguard of sorts: a special Forum, group or tendencies for indepth dicussions.

the only other thing is a purge or a new forum (not advice btw, but an observation).

I think a new forum is a bit far fetched. I am not suggesting breaking away but simply saying we should 'raise the quality of the debates' as you, SRACTLM said.

Perhaps a designated sub-forum for in-depth discussion would be a good idea.

[Zukunftsmusik]

No but we are representatives of the far-left and the left. We are quite a big website compared to many other forums though. There a still quite a few Lolcatz though. According to a quick google search, Revleft is the largest leftist forum in existence. We should cement our reputation as a solid leftist forum and be taken seriously!

Sure, we are quite big, but as long as we keep the lolcatz to the right subforums, I don't see them as a problem. Tendency wars and that the Learning forum often turns into not very serious threads are real problems that we have to do something with.

[Zukunftsmusik]

Perhaps a designated sub-forum for in-depth discussion would be a good idea.

We already have one - several in fact, but only one that is explicitly saying that it's for in-depth discussions only. The Theory subforum.

[El Louton]

I agree. This forum is the reason why we're not all wallowing in global communism already. If no leftist had ever posted a 'funny' picture on the internet, capitalism would have crumbled into dust. That's why we should always remember: every post we make is srs bizness. Super srs. And with every lolcat you guys post the revolution is pushed back another 6 months. I hope you're all proud of yourself...

Actually there are plenty of reasons the political Right puts the Left to shame. One of them being because the currently-existing (read: organised and 'official') Left is antiquated as fuck and is still stuck in early 20th century labour organising mode and spouting boring rhetoric that nobody would waste their life listening to, whilst the Right can always just fall back on the blame-game. Not that the Left doesn't try to do exactly the same thing in pretty much every other line of its rotten polemics, but the Right seem to be better suited to playing it, what with foreigners being obvious outsiders in our society. Much easier to assign blame to an already-existing out-group, rather than trying to create an out-group to then blame for all your woes.

In summary: if you're one of those people who blames everybody but yourself, then you're more likely to gravitate towards the Right, because literally their whole thing is just blaming everybody else for everything. If you actually bother to take responsibility for yourself, then you're more likely to look upon the Left as it stands with derision as it tries to cover up the ressentiment polluting its ranks. Which leaves only the Centre, which nobody in their right minds would go to, considering the fact that it's the very definition of impotence.

Those committed to real change have no choice but to look beyond the Left, beyond even the political, and surpass it in everything they do. And those still left clinging to their little organisations are only going to pick up the dregs, those too blind to see the possibilities lying beyond anything the 'official' Left could ever offer them.

...and at no point does this website or its reputation actually come into this...if it did, and if it were true that RevLeft somehow defines the progress of humanity, then I would seriously jump ship right now, abandon any hope in anything and probably just live out the rest of my days in my room eating dust off the floor in an attempt to avoid the complete shambles that is society...

I'm not saying this forum is the reason 'we're not wallowing in global communism' in fact what RevLeft has done so far is brilliant- educating thousands of young, old and the middle about the Revolutionary Left and inspiring hundreds of users to take a stand against capitalism, inequality, racism, fascism and sexism.

I'm simply suggesting we try and become a bit more serious and sensible.

[El Louton]

Sure, we are quite big, but as long as we keep the lolcatz to the right subforums, I don't see them as a problem. Tendency wars and that the Learning forum often turns into not very serious threads are real problems that we have to do something with.

I you suggesting we unite!? That's preposterous!! It's a great idea but I don't see it happening the gap between Marxists, Anarchists and Socialists are far to varied. However we all have to make a comprise to succeed.

[Zukunftsmusik]

[...] if it were true that RevLeft somehow defines the progress of humanity, then I would seriously jump ship right now, abandon any hope in anything and probably just live out the rest of my days in my room eating dust off the floor in an attempt to avoid the complete shambles that is society...

:laugh:

This ^10

[Zukunftsmusik]

I you suggesting we unite!? That's preposterous!! It's a great idea but I don't see it happening the gap between Marxists, Anarchists and Socialists are far to varied. However we all have to make a comprise to succeed.

Err... by ending tendency wars I don't mean that we should all join in one party or organisation trotskyists, stalinists, anarchists alike. Indeed many of the conflicts between these groups are real conflicts. But we need to end the continuous flow of stupid threads that invite openly to tendency wars. The latest example is the thread "Come at me authoritarians!" The thread doesn't have any real purpose but to start a fight.

[Manic Impressive]

spam is a massive problem that has got progressively worse over the last year. It's not just pictures, it's one line unconstructive posts as well, more infractions should be handed out. We were in a bit of a bad patch a month or two ago but I think the forum is getting slightly better recently, bannings seem to have decreased, although borderline sexist and homophobic comments seem to be sneaking back, which will result in another ban month unless you start thinking twice before you post.

[El Louton]

Err... by ending tendency wars I don't mean that we should all join in one party or organisation trotskyists, stalinists, anarchists alike. Indeed many of the conflicts between these groups are real conflicts. But we need to end the continuous flow of stupid threads that invite openly to tendency wars. The latest example is the thread "Come at me authoritarians!" The thread doesn't have any real purpose but to start a fight.

I'm not suggesting one party or organisation but the real enemy aren't Stalinist or Guevarists etc but the right, capitalism and Nazi's. We should focus on arguing and starting fights with them not arguing over silly 'mines bigger' arguments.

[El Louton]

spam is a massive problem that has got progressively worse over the last year. It's not just pictures, it's one line unconstructive posts as well, more infractions should be handed out. We were in a bit of a bad patch a month or two ago but I think the forum is getting slightly better recently, bannings seem to have decreased, although borderline sexist and homophobic comments seem to be sneaking back, which will result in another ban month unless you start thinking twice before you post.

Sexist and Homophobic comments shock me on a 'Revolutionary Left' forum! They are against everything all of us stand for! When and what are ban months?

[Zukunftsmusik]

I'm not suggesting one party or organisation but the real enemy aren't Stalinist or Guevarists etc but the right, capitalism and Nazi's. We should focus on arguing and starting fights with them not arguing over silly 'mines bigger' arguments.

I think you must have completely misunderstood me. Or I have misunderstood you. Cause to me this doesn't look like an answer to my post.Now I'm a bit confused. What I tried to point out was that I wasn't talking about parties, I wasn't talking about capitalism vs. communism either. I was just saying that there are too many invitations to tendency wars on this forum.

[El Louton]

I think you must have completely misunderstood me. Or I have misunderstood you. Cause to me this doesn't look like an answer to my post.Now I'm a bit confused. What I tried to point out was that I wasn't talking about parties, I wasn't talking about capitalism vs. communism either. I was just saying that there are too many invitations to tendency wars on this forum.

I guess we both misunderstood each other! But with the tendency wars we should stop fighting each other (leftists) and fight Nazi's, right wingers and capitalists.

[Red Economist]

I think a new forum is a bit far fetched. I am not suggesting breaking away but simply saying we should 'raise the quality of the debates' as you, SRACTLM said.

Perhaps a designated sub-forum for in-depth discussion would be a good idea.

the idea of a new forum or a purge was half joking anyway.

As the largest leftist forum in existence (I think), taking things more 'seriously' and having 'sensible' dicussions is a good idea.

Given the increasing importance of the internet as a means to organise (Occupy Wall Street, Use of Twitter and Facebook in Iran 09 and in the Arab Spring), Revleft could well be an important way of getting people to think about ideas and issues which are on the left and are an alternative to the mainstream 'capitalism'/'liberalism'.

Given that we already have Sub-Forums which give the oppurtunity for 'in-depth' discussion (Theory & Learning come to mind) creating new ones can't be the solution.

I can only really suggest certian members getting organised in this spirit, (without changing the composition of the membership), to better utilise the forums that we have.

given revleft's capacity to have tendency wars, (which do represent real conflicts between ideologies/classes etc), I can only imagine one group or a small coalition of groups working together.

[ComradeOm]

...bannings seem to have decreased...They've run out of good posters to ban

This thread (http://www.revleft.com/vb/there-way-revel-t164429/index.html) actually got me thinking back to my early period on RevLeft and how I benefited immensely from engaging with a whole series of intelligent and theoretically-minded posters who have since been purged from the forums. Bad posters are ten a penny but the good ones are hard to replace. There is something fundamentally wrong with a forum when the likes of tir1994 is allowed to run along freely when far more productive members - such as, say, Led Zeppelin or Bobkindles - have been banished

[ColonelCossack]

Luhlz at you guys having serious debates about lolcatz.

In all seriousness, though, I agree that we should be much stricter about keeping chit-chat in Chit-Chat. I don't really think it's a question of the reputation of the left as a whole; it's more about the theoretical productivity of members of the forum, and our own self-respect. We're not really getting anything, be it meaningful discussion, education, or learning, done at the present time.

luhlz at my hypocrisy.

[Bardo]

I'm simply suggesting we try and become a bit more serious and sensible.


This was a sensible thread but it's been ruined by Lolcatz again. You don't seem to care. This is now the reputation of the far-left.

Serious threads tend to consist of more serious and sensible discussion. A thread about economics, theory or history will usually lack non-serious discussion and silly pictures of cats, you see. A thread about lulcatz will probably garner stupid pictures of lulcatz. You started a thread to complain about lulcatz and lulcatz you received.

The reputation of the far-left does not depend on whether or not someone posts a meme in a thread on a message board online. If you want to get serious, then do something serious. Learn, organize, protest, etc. This site has alot of serious, educational and productive discussion when serious, educational and productive discussion is warranted. With all due respect, a thread about the prevalence of lulcatz doesn't necessarily a warrant serious, educational or productive response.

[El Louton]

Serious threads tend to consist of more serious and sensible discussion. A thread about economics, theory or history will usually lack non-serious discussion and silly pictures of cats, you see. A thread about lulcatz will probably garner stupid pictures of lulcatz. You started a thread to complain about lulcatz and lulcatz you received.

The reputation of the far-left does not depend on whether or not someone posts a meme in a thread on a message board online. If you want to get serious, then do something serious. Learn, organize, protest, etc. This site has alot of serious, educational and productive discussion when serious, educational and productive discussion is warranted. With all due respect, a thread about the prevalence of lulcatz doesn't necessarily warrant serious, educational or productive discussion.

The thread was not about Lulcatz. The thread was about what people think about Revleft, what the future holds for it and how it can improve.

[Bardo]

I think Lolcatz make the forum look childish and unprofessional.



What I'm saying is that RevLeft is the 'home of the revolutionary left' not a chit- chat forum which is the 'home of Lolcatz and etc'

I'm not advocating we become a political organisation- that would never work we have to many tendencies and many differences! I'm just suggesting we take a more serious position?



I'm not *****ing but those 'Lolcatz' immediately drag these posts down and make the thread and forum look like a chit-chat forum.



Because the Revolutionary Left should be serious as at the moment not many people take us seriously!


No but we are representatives of the far-left and the left. We are quite a big website compared to many other forums though. There a still quite a few Lolcatz though. According to a quick google search, Revleft is the largest leftist forum in existence. We should cement our reputation as a solid leftist forum and be taken seriously!

It certainly seems to be a central theme to the thread.

All I'm saying is there IS alot of good discussion on this site. Just ignore the nonsense and focus on the serious discussion/debate. RL might be one of the larger internet forums for the far-left but RL doesn't represent the entire far-left, in my opinion. However, as political awareness starts spreading we're probably going to be getting more and more traffic, which means more and more nonsense along with more and more valid debate and conversation too.

[El Louton]

It certainly seems to be a central theme to the thread.

All I'm saying is there IS alot of good discussion on this site. Just ignore the nonsense and focus on the serious discussion/debate. RL might be one of the larger internet forums for the far-left but RL doesn't represent the entire far-left, in my opinion. However, as political awareness starts spreading we're probably going to be getting more and more traffic, which means more and more nonsense along with more and more valid debate and conversation too.

No we got side-tracked. Originally it was meant to be about what improvements could be made and how we can get more people.