Karl Marx vs. Albert Einstein

[Tiki Man]

Link to yahoo news (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=857&ncid=757&e=10&u=/nm/20031108/od_uk_nm/oukoe_germany_greats)

"HITLER NOT ON LIST "

"An early glimpse of the voting for the final contest that began on Friday showed the trend favouring Einstein, a physicist who fled Nazi Germany for the United States, ahead of Adenauer and Goethe. Marx, the German-born communist philosopher and author of "Das Kapital", and Bismarck were in 10th and ninth place after the first five minutes of voting."

[Al Creed]

Well, don't forget, Hitler wasn't even a real German. He was a born Austrian, who gained German citizenship.

[Zafiro]

Thanks for the link.~
Both Marx and Eintein are on my list.

[Soviet power supreme]

No Red Baron?

[Eastside Revolt]

And how about the huns? :P

[Edelweiss]

I admit actually have watched that stupid "Who is the best German ever" show last week :), and I was pretty surprised to see Marx in the top ten. I wasn't aware that he still is so appreciated by the Germans (or ny the Germans who needed to vote in that contest, it's not represnatative at all). It also should be noted than Hans and Sophie Scholl, members of the resistance against the Nazis who dies for their ideals, are among the "top ten".

[Edelweiss]

Jus found out that you can also vote online, so everyone push our beloved Charly forward please :)
Click HERE (http://ubvote.zdf.de/)
You have to judge for 10 abilities (of course you'll vote 10 for Marx in all catergories...:)):

1. international standing
2. ingenuity
3. relavance for today's times
4. courage
5. humanity

You have to fill in your e-mail address, and you'll get an e-mail than with a link you have to click, so your vote gets valid.

[Saint-Just]

I completed my duty voting for Marx. If you listen to Huzington (Anti-Fascist) he will tell you that Einstein was a 'Great Communist':

"Einstein was a member, sponsor, or affiliated with thirty-four communist fronts between 1937-1954." (http://foia.fbi.gov/einstein.htm)

http://www.monthlyreview.org/598einst.htm - Why Socialism? by Albert Einstein

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2002/510/510p21.htm - The FBI's Secret War against Einstein

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I couldn't undersatnd shit, but I put marx for top everything and clicked enter.
Go Marx
Go Marx
Go Marx
Go Marx
Go Marx
Go Marx
Go Marx
:lol:

[Rastafari]

Think about Martin Luther, though. He changed the whole world in such a big way. Of course, Marx did, too (and so did Albert), but Martin Luther might be on top.


rock singer Nena (38) => scary

[SonofRage]

here's a bad translation but should be enough for you guys to understand



Evaluate the characteristics of your best one, whereby 10 the highest score is:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
World validity
Genialitaet
Topicality
Courage
Humanity

[canikickit]

here's a bad translation


I couldn't undersatnd shit

uh...


From Malte:

You have to judge for 10 abilities (of course you'll vote 10 for Marx in all catergories...):

1. international standing
2. ingenuity
3. relavance for today's times
4. courage
5. humanity

You have to fill in your e-mail address, and you'll get an e-mail than with a linl you have to click, so your vote gets valid.



Think about Martin Luther, though. He changed the whole world in such a big way.

what did he do that was good? Religious crap?

[Saint-Just]

Yes, Martin Luther is just an old, out dated christian. He once said that women had wide fundaments so they could sit at home all day.

[Ian]

Here's a site full of the guy's quotes (http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/luther.htm)
I must say he is a bigger arsehole than I thought he was if those quotes are real.

[canikickit]

:lol:


What shall we do with...the Jews?...their homes also should be razed and destroyed.

- Martin Luther


yeah, good choice Rastafari.

[Saint-Just]

I thought he was sexist, but it turns out he is pretty crazy all round:

-'We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews].'

-He also says their books should be burnt, to steal from them, burn their synagogues, schools and then cover them with dirt so we never see them again.

In addition, wrote a book called 'Jews and Their Lies'. For Germans to even consider him as the greatest German is shocking.

-He thinks anyone with any physical disability is evil.

-He also says that Snakes and Monkeys are evil animals who will deceive humans and always attempt to injure them.

-The devil sometimes steals children and replaces them with imps.

-The wind is evil

-'To be a Christian, you must pluck out the eye of reason.'

This is the quote I was talking about:

'Women...have but small and narrow chests, and broad hips, to the end that they should remain at home, sit still, keep house, and bear and bring up children.'

He also says that if angels came from heaven and told him his teachings were wrong he would 'shut my eyes and stop my ears'.

I think it would be safest to vote for Marx.

[Edelweiss]

You should be aware that about half of all Germans ARE actually Lutherian protestants (including me :), at least baptised, I'm of course atheist now). So it's not really a surprise, or a shock that he made it into the top ten. Unlike the English/British protestantism, which developed mainly because of power political reasons, the English aristocracy wanted just to be independent from power of the vatikan, Lutherian protestantism develpoed because of actual religous/ethitical reasons. Luther harshly criticized the catholic practice which allowed the people to "buy clean" from their sins for example, in his opnion the caotholic church went the wrong way, and was far away from the "true teachings" of the bible. He disagreed in many issues with the pope and the caotholic church, which had become pretty corrupt and decadent, so he advocated a radical reform of the church.
His anti-semtism is not very known here, and often denied or ignored, today's protestant church in Germany is in no way anti-semitic. I'm totally shure Luther was not voted because of his anti-semtism.

[Rastafari]

I'm not saying that I want him to win, but that he will

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 04:01 PM
I'm not saying that I want him to win, but that he will
I doubt that. My bet is either Goethe or Einstein.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2003, 04:43 AM

here's a bad translation


I couldn't undersatnd shit

uh...


From Malte:

You have to judge for 10 abilities (of course you'll vote 10 for Marx in all catergories...):

1. international standing
2. ingenuity
3. relavance for today's times
4. courage
5. humanity

You have to fill in your e-mail address, and you'll get an e-mail than with a linl you have to click, so your vote gets valid.
LOL
didn't quite catch that :lol:
whoops

[Edelweiss]

I just have checked that list again, and found out that with Karl Marx, Rudi Dutschke (leader of the students revolt during the late 60s), Bertold Brecht (communist poet/playwright), Rosa Luxemburg (co-founder of the KPD, activist, theoretican) and Clara Zetkin (leader of the German womens workers' movement, and also KPD founding member)) overall five communists are anong the Top 200.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 01:35 PM
You should be aware that about half of all Germans ARE actually Lutherian protestants (including me :), at least baptised, I'm of course atheist now). So it's not really a surprise, or a shock that he made it into the top ten.
Yes, I agree. Many held his opinion at that time, anti-semitism was not as unacceptable as it is today. Few people follow his words verbatum. But I am surprised since it is Germany, undoubtedly there are people aware of his anti-Semitism. Most of the western world find anti-Semitism absolutely intolerable, in Germany to such a degree that they take greater steps to seek it out and destroy it. It seems that the Protestant faith is more important to them in this case.

[Rastafari]

out of all of those Marx and Luxemburg are the only two who I really know that much about


but Berthold Brecht was a man!
Mackie Messer!!!

Und der Haifisch, der hat Zähne
und die trägt er im Gesicht
und Macheath, der hat ein Messer
doch das Messer sieht man nicht.

Ach, es sind des Haifischs Flossen
rot, wenn dieser Blut vergießt.
Mackie Messer trägt 'nen Handschuh
drauf man keine Untat liest.

An 'nem schönen blauen Sonntag
liegt ein toter Mann am Strand
und ein Mensch geht um die Ecke
den man Mackie Messer nennt.

Und Schmul Meier bleibt verschwunden
und so mancher reiche Mann
und sein Geld hat Mackie Messer
dem man nichts beweisen kann.

Jenny Towler ward gefunden
mit 'nem Messer in der Brust
und am Kai geht Mackie Messer
der von allem nichts gewußt.

Und das große Feuer in Soho
sieben Kinder und ein Greis -
in der Menge Mackie Messer, den
man nicht fragt und der nichts weiß.

Und die minderjährige Witwe
deren Namen jeder weiß
wachte auf und war geschändet -
Mackie, welches war dein Preis?
Wachte auf und war geschändet -
Mackie, welches war dein Preis?



Sammy Davis and Bobby Darin aside, what a great Theme song this would make.


edit: on second thought, raping old ladies is wayyy overrated

[Edelweiss]

You won't believe what happended yesterday. Yesterday there was the show were Karl Marx and Otto Bismarck, it was kind of a duel, Marx was introduced by Gregor Gysi, a popular PDS politician, (PDS=former DDR state party), Bismarck was introduced by Helmut Markworth, a conservative/bourgois publisher of a German magazine. Gysi is known for his excellent rhetoric abilities, and since he's also a good lawyer, he totally kicked Markworth's ass in their arguments about who was the "better German"! :) Gysi, who is tending very much towards Social Democracy, I really don't support him much anymore, but he was really comitted to defend his client, and dis more than well with it, and after the show Marx was no. 1 in the vote! he went up from 9th place! It's still not the final vote though.

[Rastafari]

damn. wow. who is two?
this is actually interesting, for trivial nonsense.

:)

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2003, 05:57 AM
damn. wow. who is two?
this is actually interesting, for trivial nonsense.

:)
yep, it's totally trivial nonsense. nevertheless it's quiet enterteining...:)
No. 2 currently is Konrad Adenauer, quiet the opposit of Karl Marx ideolocally, he was the first German chacellor after the war. It's quiet intresting that he is on 10th position in nearly all East-German states, while Marx is first in nearly all East-German states. Adenauer is first in nearly all West-German states (yes they actually provide statistics about that).

[Rastafari]

If they all like marx so much in the East...the Soviet Bloc must not have been too bad, right?

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 04:03 PM
If they all like marx so much in the East...the Soviet Bloc must not have been too bad, right?
Well, the vote is of course also a political statement by the East-Germans. But I wouldn't overrate that, I think many of the votes can be checked off under "DDR nostalgia". You know, people are tending to idealize the past, and to forget about the bad things, which without question happened in the DDR. Nevertheless, with the recent social "reforms" by the Schröder government, which are actually abolishing the welfare state Germany, people will more and more remember the social security they had in the DDR, and the refusal of the new capitalist system will grow. Unfortenely that will more likely be an advantage for the radical Right in Germany IMO, the radical left is in an disastrous condition currently, and the neo-fascist NPD for example uses classic anti-capitalist/anti-imperialist agitation lately.