Reforms and socialism

[papaspace]

If, according to Marx, general wage increases drive the average rate of profit of the capitalist class down, why is a revolution required?

Why can't consequent wage increases drive the rate of profit of the capitalists until it reaches zero?

[CynicalIdealist]

Capitalists will always find a way to oppress the proletariat for their own profit whether through wage decreases, higher prices, or the shifting of the tax burden onto the proletariat. A proletariat that is class conscious enough to recognize all of these ways in which the bourgeoisie benefits at their own expense is probably class conscious enough to carry out socialist revolution, so a multi-faceted demand combating all of these ways in which the capitalist system shifts the burden onto the proletariat might as well just be a demand against the system itself.

Now, transitional demands can be useful in that they represent victories for the working class or otherwise show government ineffectiveness and disillusion the working class from traditional forms of struggle, but I'm highly skeptical of their usefulness myself.

[GPDP]

Any pro-worker reforms gained through the capitalist state can and most likely will be taken away later by the ruling class. You can expect any government that seriously tries to raise wages to such a level will probably face either capital flight or an outright coup. How does the working class respond to such aggression but by ending the rule of the capitalists once and for all i.e. a revolution?

[Ocean Seal]

If, according to Marx, general wage increases drive the average rate of profit of the capitalist class down, why is a revolution required?

Why can't consequent wage increases drive the rate of profit of the capitalists until it reaches zero?
Because the capitalist class would never allow for this. Instead they would cut back and implement austerity measures. That's why the revolution is needed. As their profit approaches zero the contradiction becomes obvious and the revolution naturally happens.

[Nox]

Why can't consequent wage increases drive the rate of profit of the capitalists until it reaches zero?


Because then it is no longer Capitalism.

[Die Rote Fahne]

See "Reform or Revolution" by Rosa Luxemburg. I know I do this a lot, but it's a lot better to read her than to hear my summations of her points.

Marxists.org has a library full of her work, including RoR.

[aty]

Fuck, I had a diagram of the rate of profits in Swedish industry year by year. You can clearly see the profits getting less and less, until the politicians without asking the people deregulated the creditmarkets. That created an economic bubble that burst in the early 90s and in the economic crisis they started to demantle the welfare and privatize. The capitalists never made such high profits as during the economic crisis.

We went from having an unemployment from 1%-3% to an unemployment around 6%-10%. At the same time the rate of profits soared from 1%-5% til 10%-15%.

This is called the Novemberrevolution, neo-liberal coup from the IMF and three people at the Central Bank.
If you knew swedish you would have an interesting documentary here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z95xH9Svq3k