Revisionism and Communism

[SidBh]

What exactly is Revisionism? What is the relevance of Revisionism to Communism? Why exactly is Revisionism a bad thing and if Revisionism is on one side, what is the opposite view?

[cherokeetears]

Revisionism is the fundamental revision of Marxism to the point that it undermines the science behind Marxism. This includes opportunism, ultra-leftism, and democratic socialism.

The reason that revisionism is bad is because it allows us to put our emotions and personal reservations to undermine the scientific principles of Marxism. It opens countries up to counter revolution, like what happened in the Soviet Union and China after the capitalist roaders gained power.

[La Peur Rouge]

When someone is called a "revisionist" it means they revised Marx's ideas, i.e. rejecting/changing certain parts of Marxism.



after the capitalist roaders gained power.

lol

[tfb]

Revisionism is when you don't like Mao's revision of a revision of a revision.

[thefinalmarch]

Revisionism is defined as "the advocacy of a revision of some accepted theory, doctrine or a view of historical events."

Hence, revisionism is not inherently good or bad. It is simply a means to an end. I believe revision of theories and interpretations of events would definitely be of use to communists if a particular theory or interpretation of events is determined to be disproved or obsolete by the emergence of new social conditions we did not predict, etc. or by the occurrence of events of significance to communists and the working class. Personally, I'm not sure that there's much in Marxism that I really disagree with.

However, in the context which MLs, MLMs and Hoxhaists use this term, it specifically refers to the lines of Khrushchev, Deng, et al. which are basically all denounced by MLs, etc. For most of them, it's not the concept of revision (as described in the previous paragraph) itself which they oppose, but it is the official position of the above individuals and their successors, etc. which they denounce. It's important to recognise this distinction. I personally don't see much difference between Khrushchev and Deng, and their predecessors - they're capitalists all the same.
Marxists have used the term "revisionist" for various reasons historically, but its usage by MLs, etc. is the only usage relevant to Marxists today.

Also, the idea that the USSR, et al. "failed" because of "revisionism" is frankly fucking idealist and anti-Marxist at best. The mere ideas of party members are not enough to change the structure of an entire society -- real conditions in the real, material world have always been the cause of such changes.


ultra-leftism
fuck off with this shit

[Geiseric]

You sound very sectarian. wage the war on capitalism with ONLY ideas a hundred and a half years old ant tell me how it goes. Unless you use revisionism in the pro-stalin sense in which case, stalinism in itself is a revision

[Comrade_Stalin]

What exactly is Revisionism? What is the relevance of Revisionism to Communism? Why exactly is Revisionism a bad thing and if Revisionism is on one side, what is the opposite view?

Anti-Revisionism is the opposite. Here a link to wiki about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-revisionist

But to make it easy to understand
Revisionist are mostly support economic system taht act like the New Economic Policy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy

Were the goverment own a few factory and sell their works to fund the govement.

Anti-Revisionism on the other hand support a planned enconomy.
Where the goverment is paid a "wage" from the factory, and the rest goes to the factory worker. Thought this system was only in the USSR and China for a short period of time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_economy

[Comrade_Stalin]

Marxists have used the term "revisionist" for various reasons historically, but its usage by MLs, etc. is the only usage relevant to Marxists today.

Also, the idea that the USSR, et al. "failed" because of "revisionism" is frankly fucking idealist and anti-Marxist at best. The mere ideas of party members are not enough to change the structure of an entire society -- real conditions in the real, material world have always been the cause of such changes.


fuck off with this shit

How is it "idealist" and "anti-Marxist at best". Ideals of Lenin help the peopl of what would become the USSR to change from a monarchy to a Soviet democracy. Stalin Change the economic system witht he support of the people from a the most underdevloped country on earth to one of it superpower.

[thefinalmarch]

How is it "idealist" and "anti-Marxist at best". Ideals of Lenin help the peopl of what would become the USSR to change from a monarchy to a Soviet democracy. Stalin Change the economic system witht he support of the people from a the most underdevloped country on earth to one of it superpower.
Yes, the RSFSR was established by the popular embracement of Lenin's ideas.

Also, Stalin did all this and more. With his bare hands. The Soviet working class were just his "supporters" and cheer squad as they didn't have a meaningful role to play, because as you know, only the great men of history really matter.

:rolleyes:

[Rooster]

How is it "idealist" and "anti-Marxist at best". Ideals of Lenin help the peopl of what would become the USSR to change from a monarchy to a Soviet democracy.

No he didn't. The Russian proletariat rose up and the Bolsheviks had to ride on their coat tails or be shoved into the dust heap.


Stalin Change the economic system witht he support of the people from a the most underdevloped country on earth to one of it superpower.He didn't. The fundamental economic system of the USSR did not change from NEP. The difference is that the private sector was pushed out then the state took it over. And it wasn't the most underdeveloped country on earth, at all. And if Stalin had the support of the people then why did so many of them end up going to a visit to the NKVD and not coming back? Why did the soviet state impose such draconian labour discipline? You do know how hard the peasants were squeezed, even after collectivisation?

Revisionism is just a dirty word that's used (usually by revisionists like marxist-leninists) to slander other marxists. Revisionism means revising an idea. So you can also get historical revisionists, which kinda goes hand in hand.

[Revolutionair]

Revisionism is when you don't like Mao's revision of a revision of a revision.

This is the best answer to the question.

[ComradeOm]

Revisionism, as used by Marxists, is essentially a historical slur. It was originally used to describe Bernstein's 'revisions' to Marx's theories about a century ago and is an indicator of the stupefying intellectual climate of the Second International

The later use, and more common on RevLeft, is a product of the even more restrictive thought of late Stalinism. Here it's used by the various Marxist-Leninist offshoots to belittle those who are deemed to have deviated from Stalin's line. In particular Khrushchev and his allies (that is, those who had held leadership positions in the Stalinist CP for decades) often get labelled with this for failing to satisfactorily follow the great man's policies. Which provides a handy scapegoat for the subsequent failures of the USSR

So it's basically an empty slur. Don't read too much into it. As a recent example, here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2289992&postcount=68) we have some who has never read Marx accusing others of revising Marx. Classic


How is it "idealist" and "anti-Marxist at best". Ideals of Lenin help the peopl of what would become the USSR to change from a monarchy to a Soviet democracy. Stalin Change the economic system witht he support of the people from a the most underdevloped country on earth to one of it superpower.Is this a brilliant wit or delicious irony? Either way, I laughed

[Geiseric]

I think its irony

[Sir Comradical]

Revisionism refers to the practice of studying for your Marxism exam. Stalinists are basically opposed to studying.

[Commissar Rykov]

So it's basically an empty slur. Don't read too much into it. As a recent example, here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2289992&postcount=68) we have some who has never read Marx accusing others of revising Marx. Classic
Wow that was depressing. Anyways as others have stated Revisionist is usually nothing more than a club to attack other tendencies with it is especially prevalent from the Marxist-Leninists who believe that Trotsky was a complete deviation from Lenin which is ironic since Marxist-Leninists were denounced in the USSR as revisionists from Lenin by Khrushchev.