Marinaleda: "Communist" town in Spain

[Lanky Wanker]

Marinaleda is town in Spain,Andalusia which has 2700 people.
No poverty, no rich or poor people, 0 unemployment, 0 crime, no police (there is no need), maximum of a 15 euros monthly rent for a house. All houses have 3 bedrooms, a bathroom and a garden of 100 square meters.
Most of the people are Atheists but religious freedom exists and all of them are Left-Wing. They dont celebrate (officialy) the easter but they celebrate Peace for 5 days.
They took land (I think 12000 acres) from the local duke by "hunger strike" which lasted 13 days to the 1980s, and now that land belongs to everyone. Any profit that comes from agriculture or any other business goes for new jobs. Whoever goes there can get a job the next day. All of the people have 1200 euros per month (47 euros per day) for only 6 and a half hours of work. None of the people there wants to leave Marinaleda.
They have a major (the same for 30 years know), Juan Manuel Sánchez Gordillo, who is actualy their "embassador" to the Capistalist system and the Thapatero bullshit. Actully ALL the dicisions are taken by anormous public "discussions".

Heres the Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinaleda,_Spain

I first heard for Marinaleda from my father who saw that to the news about a month ago.
It reminds me pretty much the Paris Commune.

PS All the streets are named after after Latin American leftists.

After reading this, the only thing on my mind is how it's strange that there hasn't been any attempt to rip it down (that I know of). Not sure if many people know about this already, but I thought it'd be something cool to share.

[SHORAS]

Socialism: Utopian and Scientific :D

[Lanky Wanker]

Socialism: Utopian and Scientific :D

Care to expand on that? lol

[IndependentCitizen]

Thanks for sharing, I'll read more into this!

[Yuppie Grinder]

sounds like a cool place to live.

[CommieTroll]

I now have an answer when people say, ''If you hate this country so much then why don't you leave'':thumbup1:

[Lanky Wanker]

I now have an answer when people say, ''If you hate this country so much then why don't you leave'':thumbup1:

"I don't speak Spanish." :cool:

I'd love to start up a place like this, but I think we'd need more than a hunger strike. The capitalist business owners don't seem to care about people dying of hunger through their actions, so I doubt they'd care about people starving through their own actions. I'm in extreme anti-capitalist mode at the moment lol.

[Invader Zim]

Care to expand on that? lol

It is an essay by Engels, in which he slags off this kind of community as sub-koscher.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm

[Veovis]

"I don't speak Spanish." :cool:

I do. In fact, I used to live in Spain. I never heard of this place before, though. Not surprising, as the bigwigs (¿peces gordos?) really don't want to let the word out.

I would be so there, except I'm too poor for the plane ticket. :closedeyes:

[Ocean Seal]

Socialism: Utopian and Scientific :D
The point that SHORAS is making is a valid point. He's making the point that in this case the "communism" which was implemented was not done so scientifically and will not result in the liberation of the working class. We don't endorse communes aside from capitalism, as they would involve a large degree of lifestylism and would most likely make the lives of people harder within the commune. Plus it gives the image that we are idealists looking to better the lives of people through asking that everyone work together, hold hands and live happily ever after. This isn't what we stand for, we don't want to make people's lives harder, just for the ideal of equality. We want to improve the lives of the vast demographic majority. The entirety of the working class.

[Lanky Wanker]

I do. In fact, I used to live in Spain. I never heard of this place before, though. Not surprising, as the bigwigs (¿peces gordos?) really don't want to let the word out.

I would be so there, except I'm too poor for the plane ticket. :closedeyes:

All we need now is a co-operative airline run by some comrades... but hey, if you teach me Spanish I'll pay for your ticket too.

[thefinalmarch]

worker-managed capitalism, utopian socialism, etc., etc.

[Tim Cornelis]

Although it is good for the people who live there, it does little to nothing for class struggle. You cannot escape capitalism like this.

The only reason why this is interesting is that there is no police. A moneyless Maoist village in China (Nanjie(cun) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjie)) is also home to 2,000 or 4,000 people and there is no police.

[SHORAS]

Care to expand on that? lol

Sorry, I was being quite flippant. Something I have criticized others for in the past, guilty your honor.

RedBrother gives a good summary I would only add that we as a class have to abolish the state not live side by side with it in our own little world or communes. It's fantasy land I'm afraid. Besides you cannot have communism or emancipation while there is still a state. That's a very good point about working harder too also if the 'commune' did really exist outside of capitalism it would degenerate very quickly, almost overnight I would guess.

[W1N5T0N]

The point that SHORAS is making is a valid point. He's making the point that in this case the "communism" which was implemented was not done so scientifically and will not result in the liberation of the working class. We don't endorse communes aside from capitalism, as they would involve a large degree of lifestylism and would most likely make the lives of people harder within the commune. Plus it gives the image that we are idealists looking to better the lives of people through asking that everyone work together, hold hands and live happily ever after. This isn't what we stand for, we don't want to make people's lives harder, just for the ideal of equality. We want to improve the lives of the vast demographic majority. The entirety of the working class.

well then we should start doing what the comrades in marinaleda are doing, or am i wrong here?

[Lanky Wanker]

Sorry, I was being quite flippant. Something I have criticized others for in the past, guilty your honor.

RedBrother gives a good summary I would only add that we as a class have to abolish the state not live side by side with it in our own little world or communes. It's fantasy land I'm afraid. Besides you cannot have communism or emancipation while there is still a state. That's a very good point about working harder too also if the 'commune' did really exist outside of capitalism it would degenerate very quickly, almost overnight I would guess.

Of course it's not really helping anything in the long run, I agree. It just sounds like a cool place, and it's quite interesting how they turned it into a commune without it being ripped down.

[NewLeft]

Ah cool. I'll be sure to visit that place on my next trip to Spain, where I'll be flying first class, making arrangements with a tour guide and sleeping at five star hotels. I'll even name my daughter Marinaleda after them.

I wonder if the people of Marinaleda really do have to work extra hard to maintain their commune status.. I mean, they can't even sell their homes.

[Aleenik]

I see these types of communities as a positive. The people within the town get to live how they want and they get to show the world it can work. Yes, they aren't fully Communist.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Some are too quick to criticize the proto-communist towns and autonomous regions. People are accusing them of being "Utopian" and not "Scientific" but this accusation is no less naive than the people living in the town.

(1) Many people see communal living as socially impossible or against human nature. These kinds of communities offer a strong counterpoint in the modern context. They are brilliant propaganda especially in places like Spain where capitalism is failing so horribly.

(2) From a scientific perspective, they can be used to better understand on a sociological and anthropological level how communal living would function and how workers will come to see such a system as advantageous, and therefore they are a useful sample for analysis.

(3) Capitalism did not start with society converting overnight to a Capitalist system. There were towns which adopted Capitalist ideals out of economic necessity within the Feudal order. This action, even if it was not revolutionary in itself and was still dependent on the feudal economy, did help to create the conditions to undermine then remove the feudal order.

(4) It only makes sense that the working class, peasants, and indigenous communities, when lacking a real revolutionary party, can take matters into their own hands as the early bourgeoisie did to create their own economic space independently of the broader political order.

I'm not saying this is the birthplace of the revolution or anything, but these kinds of communities do make for good propaganda and can act as a sample to better understand the social and economic relations of people living communally.

there are other examples, for instance this one in Mexico:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtl%C3%A1n_de_Ju%C3%A1rez
or the Zapatista communes, also in Mexico. Perhaps the critical folks should think more about why workers feel the need to do this ... certainly, these movements have shown themselves at least to be less vulnerable to takeover by an unelected bureaucracy which eventually devolves into a new bourgeoisie (ie, all the systems constructed by the so-called "scientific" "Communist" parties)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

It's not going to lead to communism. It's not an escape from capitalism, no matter what the local authorities claim. But in the absence of a real movement you can't blame a small number of people in a rural area for trying to make their lives a little bit more tolerable.

I could sure go for a 15 euro a month house!

And look at the upside: there will be less to do in Marinaleda than the rest of Spain when it comes time to turn society upside down.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I would very well like to visit this town someday...just need to learn Spanish!

[Lanky Wanker]

We should all organise a trip to Marinaleda!

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

to bad their arent any that speak english or french:)
would be a hell of a good idea to do this

[Rafiq]

This 'communist town' is just a big, petite bourgeois cooperative.

Communal shit aside, it's still petite bourgeois in nature

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

oh yes, because a group of 3000 people can topple a government in europe. totally possible...
but yea, best thing going so far

[DDR]

This 'communist town' is just a big, petite bourgeois cooperative.

Communal shit aside, it's still petite bourgeois in nature

So a bunch of jonaleros, peasants without land, expropiate the lands of a Aristocrat, take the town hall democratly, use their porwer to improve the lives of the peoples in that village (Houses at 15€ at moth, plus a little work with the constructors, every Sunday they held a mayor assembly where the people of the town decide where to spend the money and what to do with the town, etc.) it's pettit bugoise...

Sanchez Gordillo, the town mayor and also Congressman in the Andalucian Congress, is a very hardcore syndicalist, who have faced Jail, a lots of fines, and with his union, SAT, is probably one of the most combative unions in Spain (the other head of the union, Diego Cañamero had been lots of times in search and capture by the police).

So, summing up: Andalucia entera como Marinaleda! VALS!

[Smyg]

When you put it that way, it does sound rather awesome.

[Lanky Wanker]

Petit-bourgeois: could it work any other way? It's the closest to communism I can imagine a community developing under capitalism (and yes, let's skip the whole "lolz dat r a contradiction" stuff).

[Rafiq]

Petit-bourgeois: could it work any other way? It's the closest to communism I can imagine a community developing under capitalism (and yes, let's skip the whole "lolz dat r a contradiction" stuff).

I know they do the best they can. I'm not against them. But we must understand why this is not the model for a revolution.

[Lanky Wanker]

I know they do the best they can. I'm not against them. But we must understand why this is not the model for a revolution.

I agree, considering it was hardly a revolution lol.

[Aspiring Humanist]

Hmm...go to college and condemn myself to a life of debt, or buy a plane ticket to Spain and live with other people who believe the same things I do, inexpensively and in a beautiful country

The choice is so damn obvious but I know I won't choose the right option!

[El Louton]

There must be an application of somewhat!

[Rafiq]

I agree, considering it was hardly a revolution lol.

What I am trying to say is that the emancipation of the proletariat will not be achieved through "Building a new society in the shell of the old", setting up these types of towns on a mass scale. The emancipation of the proletariat can and would be only achieved through armed struggle and bloody revolution, and seizing power of the state none the less an absolute necessity.

[Yuppie Grinder]

The individuals that make up these communities and the ideas with which they are organized show revolutionary potential. Will capitalism be single-handedly dismantled by proto-communistic collectives within the system? No, but they can't hurt. Productive members of society taking control of their own lives is a revolutionary act.

[Rocky Rococo]

Building the new in the shell of the old is a time-honored revolutionary undertaking.

[Kombouto]

I've just found this thread about that great place call Marinaleda. I'll put it in context: Marinaleda is in Andalusia, Southern Spain, where almost all the land belongs to big landowners, who have always kept the peasants illiterate and usually didn't allow them to take their children to school (until the 80s!). The Second Republic took some measures to favour peasants that allowed a pay rise: it was the biggest reason that made landowners (including the Catholic Church) to support Franco's coup. This wouldn't have happened if the Republic had enacted a land reform to diminish their power (they realized after the coup and then made the reform, but it was too late).

Marinaleda's fields belonged to the duke of Infantado. People were so poor that almost half the population left in the 60s for Barcelona, Germany, France, Switzerland. Peasants fought for the lands all the 80s decade, and finally they had the land in 1991 ("for the first time in 5000 years of history in Andalusia", as the official website says). It's an example for all the region, where landowners are still the lords of the place .
Marinaleda's example is so feared by the Spanish establishment, that it very rarely appears in the media. 95% of Spaniards don't know about its existence.

Andalusia's biggest landowner is this woman: Cayetana Fitz-James Stuart, 18th Duchess of Alba (search for this in wikipedia; I was going to post the link, but I'm not allowed yet).

[Veovis]

Andalusia's biggest landowner is this woman: Cayetana Fitz-James Stuart, 18th Duchess of Alba (search for this in wikipedia; I was going to post the link, but I'm not allowed yet).

Just don't post her picture, please. I just ate.

[rednordman]

Just don't post her picture, please. I just ate.:laugh:. I just saw a pic of her next to Camilla Parker Bowls...She made her look like a beautiful woman. Until 1 second ago, i thought that it was impossible.

[Kombouto]

It's even worse if you hear her speaking. A living example of the decadence of aristocracy.

[Veovis]

:laugh:. I just saw a pic of her next to Camilla Parker Bowls...She made her look like a beautiful woman. Until 1 second ago, i thought that it was impossible.

And to think, she used to look like this!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-B5w0Todmzjs/TdG9NxKZMgI/AAAAAAAABzU/7iQPio8FMx4/s1600/duchess_alba_1956.jpg

[rednordman]

And to think, she used to look like this!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-B5w0Todmzjs/TdG9NxKZMgI/AAAAAAAABzU/7iQPio8FMx4/s1600/duchess_alba_1956.jpg:blink::confused:

[Raúl Duke]

If there was a failed revolution in North America and Spain offered refuge, I'll move to this Marinaleda place.

Vamos a Marinaleda!

[syndicat]

I believe the Izquierda Unida (United Left) controls the town council, if it's the town i'm thinking of. There is a union, SAT, in Andalucia that used to mainly organize farm workers, it was associated with a Maoist party that doesn't exist anymore. The union is now a general workers union and has its own political group, inside the Izquierda Unida coalition, and I think they control this town government, if it's the town i'm thinking of.

[Tim Cornelis]

20-minute programy on Marinaleda:

8rlqT4NPM9E

[TheRedJew]

Most intresting

[Delenda Carthago]

Well, if its like that, I have socialism in my apartment. I have no authorities, no police and, guess what, no money.

[Delenda Carthago]

And btw, I ve been there.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

Is this still as good as when this topic was opened?

Can I move there easily?

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

This literally just made my day. That is perfection. Nearly exactly how I believe a society should operate. This is just awesome. Now I have a current example to use in debates about why communism works. Those Spaniards sure do know how to do communism. First Catalonia, now this.

[Sinister Intents]

Is this still as good as when this topic was opened?

Can I move there easily?

Probably, and considering you're from Portugal it might be easy to move there, but it really isn't communist, let all socialist, but I'm sure you know this.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

Probably, and considering you're from Portugal it might be easy to move there, but it really isn't communist, let all socialist, but I'm sure you know this.
I know.

But considering the deep shit Spain is in, I wonder why there hasn't been mass migration to Marinaleda. There are probably some type of restrictions.

[Sinister Intents]

I know.

But considering the deep shit Spain is in, I wonder why there hasn't been mass migration to Marinaleda. There are probably some type of restrictions.

What's been going on in Spain? US media is utter shit comrade. That'd be cool if their was :) I'm sure there are restrictions, especially considering the things I've read about the town.

I remember this thread from back in 2011 when I was a lurker :)

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

What's been going on in Spain? US media is utter shit comrade. That'd be cool if their was :) I'm sure there are restrictions, especially considering the things I've read about the town.

I remember this thread from back in 2011 when I was a lurker :)

Around 25% unemployment and 50% youth unemployment.

Anyone should consider this place a heaven.

[Sinister Intents]

Around 25% unemployment and 50% youth unemployment.

Anyone should consider this place a heaven.

Thanks for informing me comrade, if only there were more places like Marinaleda :(

[Tim Cornelis]

These are among the reasons why so many people in Spain want to move to Marinaleda—there is a two year waiting list—and why so many people from around the world want to visit. In the words of one resident, Marinaleda has become ‘like a Mecca’ for socialists.

http://www.newleftproject.org/index.php/site/article_comments/a_utopia_towards_peace_notes_on_marinaleda

[ed miliband]

http://www.newleftproject.org/index.php/site/article_comments/a_utopia_towards_peace_notes_on_marinaleda

i want to vomit reading this crap.