The Manson killings

[Smashcapitalists]

Ok I as leftist/anarchist/im not quite sure what tendency I am yet though im not inclined toward anarcho-communism. But whatever yall are what do we make of the Manson killings:confused::confused::confused::confused:
Was it fascist Nazi violence, considering the fuck nut had a swazi on forehead :thumbdown:
But he killed rich people and I do not feel sorry for them that died. Ok Sharon Tate was hot chick. Plus I've listened to his interview in 1988 through youtube and the one with Geraldo. I love his quotes and he makes great points and when I understand the points he makes and follow his well post incereration teachings.

[Os Cangaceiros]

If you understand Manson's points, you should probably be very worried about your own mental health.

What do I think of the Manson murders? In short: psychotic hippies murder rich people because their psychotic leader wanted to eventually start an apocalyptic race war.

[Os Cangaceiros]

ITT: the birth of Marxism-Leninism-Mansonism

[Le Socialiste]

Manson wasn't/isn't exactly the kind of person the left would admire. Pretty sure most leftists would frown on the attempt to incite an apocalyptic race war...

[RedGrunt]

But not an apocalyptic class war!

[mrmikhail]

Charles Manson was a life long criminal, and then used the hippy movement, and it's drugs to indoctrinate his "family" to do whatever he desired. Then his true inner crazy came out when he thought the beatles were talking directly to him in their album and that "Helter Skelter" was actually a code term for a race war between blacks and whites which would cause the end of the world, and since he and his family would be hiding in the desert hills of California, they would survive and then rule the world as any survivors would come to him as an authority figure (yeah....)

Definitely not something anyone on the left, or in fact anyone who isn't mentally deficient in the same way as Manson, would support.

Also you say "OK Sharon Tate was a hot chick", so you are saying a person's looks should determine their value as a human?

secondly you say "I don't feel sorry for them that died", on this firstly you have terrible grammar secondly it is rather pathetic that you would even say that....it was a pointless and random killing by an obviously psychotic criminal and his brainwashed cult....their social status should not play a factor in this as Charles Manson was by no means a proletarian, working in the interests of the proletarian, nor trying to do anything at all aside from crime and making moves to achieve something thought up in his crazed mind.

[Smyg]

Ok I as leftist/anarchist/im not quite sure what tendency I am yet though im not inclined toward anarcho-communism. But whatever yall are what do we make of the Manson killings:confused::confused::confused::confused:
Was it fascist Nazi violence, considering the fuck nut had a swazi on forehead :thumbdown:
But he killed rich people and I do not feel sorry for them that died. Ok Sharon Tate was hot chick. Plus I've listened to his interview in 1988 through youtube and the one with Geraldo. I love his quotes and he makes great points and when I understand the points he makes and follow his well post incereration teachings.

So it's okay to murder rich people now? Cool.

Funny that you're not "inclined towards anarcho-communism", given your avatar.

[thefinalmarch]

So it's okay to murder rich people now? Cool.
Killing or violence is not automatically good or bad. Killing or violence of any sort is a means to an end, and whether that means is a justifiable one is entirely dependent on the context in which it is placed.

Manson was not cool though. He was a piece of shit.

The OP's analysis is pretty flawed. It failed to take into account the context in which the killings happened (see explosive situation's post), which is a pretty crucial thing to do when you want to determine whether it can be supported or justified or whatever.

[thefinalmarch]

But not an apocalyptic class war!
nah, i'll have my cake and eat it, too

no apocalypse for me. it'd be pretty shit.

[Ismail]

About two years ago we had some guy outright praising Manson. What is it with RevLeft and Manson-worship?

At least praise actual leftists like Jim Jones or something. He was a manipulative cult leader who led his followers into a mass murder-suicide, but at least he wasn't a reactionary.

Also I have a strong feeling this thread doesn't belong in History.


Funny that you're not "inclined towards anarcho-communism", given your avatar.For what it's worth, Soviet sources praise Durruti because of his close collaboration with the Soviet army in Spain. He's basically the "good anarchist" in their eyes and the Soviets believed that Durruti was shot by one of his own either in part or because of this collaboration.

[RED DAVE]

Jim Jones ... was a manipulative cult leader who led his followers into a mass murder-suicide, but at least he wasn't a reactionary.So a charismatic crazy man who caused the deaths of about a thousand people was progressive?

RED DAVE

[Sam Varriano]

A lot of people say I look exactly like manson <_<

[Vendetta]

But whatever yall are what do we make of the Manson killings:confused::confused::confused::confused:


It was the work of one crazy motherfucker. Nothing else. If you don't think so, watch ANY of his interviews while he's in prison.

Edit: Okay, so you have...uh...better check in.

[RED DAVE]

Ok I as leftist/anarchist/im not quite sure what tendency I am yet though im not inclined toward anarcho-communism. But whatever yall are what do we make of the Manson killings:confused::confused::confused::confused:
Was it fascist Nazi violence, considering the fuck nut had a swazi on forehead :thumbdown:
But he killed rich people and I do not feel sorry for them that died. Ok Sharon Tate was hot chick. Plus I've listened to his interview in 1988 through youtube and the one with Geraldo. I love his quotes and he makes great points and when I understand the points he makes and follow his well post incereration teachings.Comrade, Manson was/is a psychotic killer. He "family" was a perverted parody of a hippy commune that committed senseless murder against innocent people in order to provoke race war.

You need to get your politics straight.

RED DAVE

[Ismail]

So a charismatic crazy man who caused the deaths of about a thousand people was progressive?

RED DAVEHis politics were certainly of a leftist sort. Huey Newton and Angela Davis were fans of his (although obviously not members of the Peoples Temple) and he flew to Havana to meet the former, he supported the American Indian Movement, he described himself as a communist, evidently setting up a racially integrated church and later commune isn't the work of reactionaries, etc. Plus the Soviet ambassador to Guyana came to Jonestown and the Soviet press praised it.

Obviously his act of "revolutionary suicide" (a term he borrowed from Newton and completely misused) wasn't progressive, and it doesn't change the fact that he was still a manipulative, abusive, etc. cult leader who fled the USA because he believed nuclear war was coming.

But if you had to pick a cult leader, who would you rather have?

This: http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/Tapes/Tapes/TapeTranscripts/Q929.html
Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XREnvJRkif0

[Искра]

So basicaly he was progressive because Soviet ambassador praised his work :)

[Ismail]

So basicaly he was progressive because Soviet ambassador praised his work :)Uh, no. He was progressive for a number of reasons, like the ones I mentioned. I mean politically he was a quasi-Maoist type, praising the Soviet Union and Maoist China while criticizing the foreign policy of the latter for being "anti-Soviet."

Feel free to deny he was obviously a communist, his own words speak for himself (start at 1:37): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRGtGmPMGJ8

[28350]

he's a crazy nobody, not an evil mastermind

[Commissar Rykov]

Praising of Manson and Jim Jones? Fucking hell I think I am going to go live in a cave for a couple of decades and see if it gets better.

[Ismail]

Praising of Manson and Jim Jones? Fucking hell I think I am going to go live in a cave for a couple of decades and see if it gets better.No one is praising Jim Jones. It's just a fact that he was a communist, he was obviously not a reactionary, and that he obviously wasn't insane like Charles Manson was/is.

You could call Jones many things, like insecure, sociopathic, a rather pathetic character, paranoid, etc. But at least Jones was actually a leftist. It'd make sense to talk about him on RevLeft.

[Vendetta]

and that he obviously wasn't insane like Charles Manson was/is.

So making everybody (including children) drink poisoned Kool-Aid isn't insane?

[Smyg]

Insanity is not required for that, no.

[Ismail]

So making everybody (including children) drink poisoned Kool-Aid isn't insane?He did that because his "Red Brigade" shot and killed a Congressman who had come to Jonestown to see if any cultish activity (of which there was obviously plenty) was going on. Jones knew that this would spell the end of him as a cult leader over the lives of almost a thousand people, and in his drugged-up state he ordered people to either kill themselves or be killed.

Obviously not the mark of a great human being, but a bit different from Manson.

[Vendetta]

Obviously not the mark of a great human being, but a bit different from Manson.

I wasn't arguing that, but IMO it was still insane.

[Smyg]

Nope. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity)

[Vendetta]

I know what insanity is, I'm just saying.

[khlib]

RLaGdW6BKJM

[Zanthorus]

So a charismatic crazy man who caused the deaths of about a thousand people was progressive?

Insert obligatory Stalin/Mao/Hoxha joke here.

[Vanguard1917]

No one is praising Jim Jones. It's just a fact that he was a communist, he was obviously not a reactionary, and that he obviously wasn't insane like Charles Manson was/is.

You could call Jones many things, like insecure, sociopathic, a rather pathetic character, paranoid, etc. But at least Jones was actually a leftist.

It makes it worse that he was a 'leftist', not better. I'd rather not have my political leanings associated with demented maniacs.

[Anarchrusty]

Love or hate Manson, but the fact remains that he is a highly intelligent person with freakishly truth baring convo such as ''Thinking is stinking''. When I first read that, my mind was spinning from an AHA moment. I still get the shivers up and down my spine when stinking back to it.

[Book O'Dead]

Ok I as leftist/anarchist/im not quite sure what tendency I am yet though im not inclined toward anarcho-communism. But whatever yall are what do we make of the Manson killings:confused::confused::confused::confused:
Was it fascist Nazi violence, considering the fuck nut had a swazi on forehead :thumbdown:
But he killed rich people and I do not feel sorry for them that died. Ok Sharon Tate was hot chick. Plus I've listened to his interview in 1988 through youtube and the one with Geraldo. I love his quotes and he makes great points and when I understand the points he makes and follow his well post incereration teachings.

I found this on You Tube. It explains EVERYTHING you need to konw about the Tate-LaBianca murders:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGA36xw2O_Q

[Vendetta]

''Thinking is thinking''. When I first read that, my mind was spinning from an AHA moment. I still get the shivers up and down my spine when stinking back to it.

Please tell me this is sarcasm.

[Anarchrusty]

Vendetta, I meant to write ''Thinking is stinking''. I edited so the full magnificance of that remark will finally be able to hit home.
And no, he really did say that. Still think I'm sarcastic?

Thinking is stinking. Asked and answered.

[Blackscare]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g140/MeepChick/Memes/whats_going_on_in_this_thread_aw_sh.jpg





Dude, you might want to get checked out or something... Also, that thing outside, you know the thing, it hates you. Hates you real good.

[Obs]

Vendetta, I meant to write ''Thinking is stinking''. I edited so the full magnificance of that remark will finally be able to hit home.
And no, he really did say that. Still think I'm sarcastic?

Thinking is stinking. Asked and answered.
https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGjMBdXhMzbLPYOCxHajTh-bDE90mLn3SCG4_2cMkIb8yipFSz

[Ismail]

It makes it worse that he was a 'leftist', not better. I'd rather not have my political leanings associated with demented maniacs.Well I mean how many leftists do you see acting like Jim Jones?

Well, to begin with there's Jim Jones.

That's about it. Just because he happened to be a leftist doesn't mean that his leftist politics led him to form a cult that later led to a mass murder-suicide. It obviously determined the character of that cult (he kept on talking about how "fascists" wanted to kill him because he promoted racial integration and socialism, and he obviously went to Guyana to set up a commune in what he regarded as a friendly "socialist" country, working to establish ties with the USSR, China, DPRK and so on, having his followers write up fairly detailed plans to move to the USSR or Cuba, etc.) but yeah. When a liberal goes around saying patently untrue stuff like "Jim Jones was a fundie Christian" or whatever I don't hesitate to correct him. It's important to note that cults, both religious and political (Jones' was a mixture of both), can form from any ideology, and that cults are quite obviously destructive.

I mean keep in mind that the Soviets thought so highly of Jones that they later claimed (without basis) that the CIA basically went in and killed everyone because of how glorious Jonestown was a great bastion of American communism or something. Claiming he wasn't a leftist is just wrong.

The book Raven (http://www.amazon.com/Raven-Untold-Story-Jones-People/dp/0525241361) is by far the best book on Jones, the Peoples Temple and Jonestown as agreed upon by everyone. If you read that you'd see beyond all doubt that Jones was a commie, that his closest followers considered themselves communists, that they did half-assed attempts at reading Marxist works (it was, after all, a cult around Jones), that Jones would mix communist arguments in his sermons, etc. At times he even openly attacked religion when he was sure his Christian followers were sufficiently behind him enough for them to support this.

[Seth]

Well I mean how many leftists do you see acting like Jim Jones?*cough* Avakian *cough*


Not quite the same, but yeah. Cult.

[Yazman]

So making everybody (including children) drink poisoned Kool-Aid isn't insane?

Regular people are capable of doing horrible things. If you just paint every person who commits atrocities as insane it's much easier to deal with; but in reality any person is capable of doing horrible and bizarre things without being insane.