Guy Fawkes Night & Cinco De Mayo

[Magón]

Firstly, I know it's already passed, but an English friend of mine and I, were talking about November 5th earlier, and I've come to the realization that it's sort of like Mexico's May 5th.

Why? Because it seems most people don't know the history behind either day, and that (at least for Cinco De Mayo), it's not celebrated everywhere in the country. Here in the US, I think why it's celebrated so much, is because people (for whatever reasons) have come to take it as a nation wide holiday for Mexico, and for some reason Mexicans in the US just add to the idea by celebrating it, even if they themselves hardly know about it, or wouldn't usually celebrate it.

According to my English friend, it's the same type of thing in England, where many celebrate it but don't know the history, and if they did, wouldn't do so after.

So my question to the English on the boards. Is this true? Do a lot of English celebrate Nov. 5th without knowing the history or much of it?

[Comrade J]

You have the history of it rammed down your throat at primary school (well, at least I did), and it is tradition to burn an effigy of Guy Fawkes, so I'm sure most people are reasonably aware. They at least know that he was going to blow up parliament and got caught, perhaps not many know much beyond that. As a tradition it is evolving anyway; more and more bonfires now burn a popular hate figure like Tony Blair, David Cameron etc. instead, which is much better tbh!

[DDR]

bonfires now burn a popular hate figure like Tony Blair, David Cameron etc. instead, which is much better tbh!

Wow, that sounds alot like the "Quema del Judas" (Burn of the Judas) the last day in Easter (Resurrection/Holy Sunday) we burn a puppet stuffed with dry grass and fire works, and usually have the face of some-one hated at the moment. In Valencia, in Fallas they do the same thing but for a couple of days (well, the pupets are from wood and hollow)

[Stork]

Most people know the story.
a gang of disgruntled Catholic tries to destroy parliament and Proddy King James but is caught and hung, drawn and quartered for treason. But most people don't see any problem with celebrating his death. I went to a Catholic school but we were never taught the historical context that inspired the assassination attempt. But I think allot of people might still celebrate it even if that was drilled in more, I mean he tried to KILL the KING!

[Rooster]

Personally, I don't think a lot of people know of the history of the 5th of November here much. I don't think a lot of people know who Guy Fawkes was or what he wanted and stuff, or who the king was on the throne that he tried to blow up. It's not even called Guy Fawkes night here, for example, just bonfire night.

[Manic Impressive]

I think most people know the very basics, there was a plot to blow up parliament and the persons name was guy fawkes and he had a pointed goatee beard. Maybe that he was catholic but probably wouldn't know who the monarch was or anything past that. It really is a sick tradition and people just don't think about the context of it as it's part of the indoctrination we receive as children. Which always makes me remember that I had a slightly unusual childhood as my parents didn't like celebrating it and explained it's significance and context to me from a young age.

p.s. what's cinco de mayo?

[Bronco]

I don't think they know it at all, Guy Fawkes is just vilified as a traitor who deserved to die and that's that, few people are aware of the context of that period and of the repression towards Catholics at the time, and the sectarian connotations seem to be ignored

[Zealot]

It's celebrated in New Zealand too and no, most people don't know who he was although some do know the bare basics. It's sort of the same with Christmas, I mean, how many Christians have actually read the bible and really know what happened or what Christmas originally celebrated? Personally, I would like to keep it as a celebration but celebrate him as a martyr instead of a criminal.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Wasn't Guy Fawkes day superimposed over an ancient Celtic holiday on the same date, similar to the way Christmas and Easter were pagan holidays taken over by Christianity?

[RedAnarchist]

To echo the above posts, most people around here know the story, but it's mainly seen as bonfire night, where people watch fireworks and have bonfires.


Wasn't Guy Fawkes day superimposed over an ancient Celtic holiday on the same date, similar to the way Christmas and Easter were pagan holidays taken over by Christianity?

That's Halloween, which was superimposed over Samhain.

[Magón]

p.s. what's cinco de mayo?

It translates to the 5th of May, which is the celebration of the Mexican Army's victory over the French at the Battle of Puebla, near the town/city of the same name. For the most part, it's not celebrated outside of Puebla in Mexico, but here in the US, for some reason the Mexican communities seem to always celebrate it, even though they might not be from Puebla and most Americans are under the impression that it's some sort of Mexican "4th of July" which it isn't at all. The history of it is basically just a cluster fuck of Imperialism mixed with Country owing Country, but ended up with a powerful European country (France) getting their ass beat by a weaker country, Mexico.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinco_de_Mayo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Puebla

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_intervention_in_Mexico

[Fopeos]

Mexico defaulted on some loans owed to France. France chose to invade and sieze as much property as they deemed necessary to repay the debts. Mexico, with both regular and irregular fighters, sent them packing back across the pond. What's not to celebrate?

[Nox]

Basically, he was a Catholic (there have been huge catholic-protestant rivalries throughout UK history) who tried to blow up the houses of parliament with gunpowder hidden in barrels in the basement, the police were tipped off by another member of his gang, and he was arrested, tortured and executed.

You may be thinking he was a cool guy by wanting to blow up the houses of parliament, but his goal was to create a Catholic ultra-theocratic monarchist dictatorship.