It's over.

[SVeach94]

Hi there :)

I've been browsing RevLeft for quite some time just to see what the post-USSR revolutionary socialists are up to, and I thought I'd finally share my thoughts here. I expect to be restricted at some point, as I assume anyone right of a Trotskyist is not welcome in other forums. Nonetheless, I'll post here.

Here's my thoughts: capitalism is a screwed up system in many ways. The tremendous exploitation and oppression, the destruction of the natrual environment, the grinding poverty some are forced to endure at the expense of others...it can be a pretty brutal system.

But, as horrible as all of that is, here's the brutal truth that you guys don't want to hear - it's here to stay.

Communist movements (or at least those who proclaimed themselves to be communists) had their chance. The Paris Commune, the Russian Revolution, the early socialist movement in the USA...in another world, revolutionary socialism could have defeated capitalism, and a different world could have emerged.

But it didn't.

Maybe it was a curse of ineffective leadership. Maybe if Lenin had lived a few years longer, maybe if a different leader than Stalin had come along, maybe if communism hadn't become synonymous with oppression and destruction of religion (regardless of whether or not the ideology actually subscribes to that), maybe if the USSR hadn't collapsed, if the Berlin Wall had never been built...

Maybe, maybe, maybe. A pointless game of speculation. But I digress.

Here's what I'm trying to get across: communism may or may not be a better system than capitalism (I presume most of you agree with the former). It may or may not have built a better world. Irregardless of what Cold War propaganda told kids in the west, it may have led to a better long term future for humanity.

But that doesn't matter.

The damage has been done. Cold War brainwashing and governments that claimed to be communist that were dictatorships have taken their toll. The USSR is gone, the Eastern Bloc is no more, China is capitalist in all but name...

...And you people are living in the past.

The workers' revolutions failed. The big corporations and the fatcat bankers, CEOs, and investors outsmarted Marx and his theories. Society has become addicted to cheap, abundant products, whether or not they were produced in slave labor conditions.

And that's why, as much as it might suck, the only thing we can do is hope to change capitalism so that it becomes slightly less oppressive. Guarantee rights for workers, universal health care, fair wages...they're not enough to fix all of capitalism's problems. But they'll have to do.

They're all we have left. The battle's over. The capitalists have won.

And you guys lost.

Sorry if you don't want to hear this. But the bottom line is that spending your time on some forum nobody outside of the far left cares about ranting about problems you can't hope to fix won't change anything. It's a cruel, cruel world we live in, but we must play the hand we've been dealt.

(P.S. - I find this little gulag you have set up for dissidents amusing. Reminds me of why people rejected communism in the first place...)

[Robert]

Sorry if you don't want to hear this. But the bottom line is that spending your time on some forum nobody outside of the far left cares about ranting about problems you can't hope to fix won't change anything.You know what's a little spooky about this? The last defector who talked like this Was LSD, and he too had a rose for an avatar, or maybe a bunch of red posies, but still ....

(Cue "Twilight Zone" theme)

But hey, you'll find that in OI there are several people "outside of the far left" who care about commie ravings. Come on in and tell us the story, friend.

on edit: Hold it ... why is that your first post on revleft?

[Optiow]

Ha, fuck you sonny. I'm living for the future, and I certainly aren't going to give up my beliefs because you tell me it's over. As far as I'm concerned it hasn't even begun :cool:

[Искра]

Cool story bro :cool:

Now, do you realise that more than half of people here are anti-Stalinists and we know that "socialism in one state" is not socialism... therfore we have nothing to do with Soviet Union?

Do you get it now?

Ok, now go and make me a sandwitch.

[The Jay]

Propaganda can be combated, people can still organize, and reforms just push the problems back.

P.S.- Comparing a restricted forum to a concentration camp is a little far fetched don't you think?

[ВАЛТЕР]

The fight is never over. Defeatism is counterrevolutionary and rather a cowardly way to look at the world. Capitalism will crumble, it is unsustainable. I don't know what you people don't understand about that. Capitalism cannot continue. Sure it may not collapse tomorrow, maybe not in 10 years, but it will collapse eventually simply because the way it is. Wealth centralizes and as a result people starve or cannot have the life they wish, and when that happens people get angry and that is how revolutions occur, and they always have.

[Revolution starts with U]

I'm more upset by defeatism than Cold War propaganda :crying:

Brother; those who say they can, and those who say they cannot, are both usually right :cool:

[SVeach94]

Cool story bro :cool:

Now, do you realise that more than half of people here are anti-Stalinists and we know that "socialism in one state" is not socialism... therfore we have nothing to do with Soviet Union?

Do you get it now?

Ok, now go and make me a sandwitch.
Aye, I understand that. And I'm saying that's irrelevant. "Communism" has become equivalent with oppression and dictatorship, whether or not that's the actual ideology. And that can't be undone.

[ZeroNowhere]

Yeah, maybe I'd care if I was a utopian socialist. Platitudes are no substitute for theory.

[The Jay]

Aye, I understand that. And I'm saying that's irrelevant. "Communism" has become equivalent with oppression and dictatorship, whether or not that's the actual ideology. And that can't be undone.

This is turning into a "yeah-huh, not-uh" argument. If you say propaganda is forever, prove it.

[SVeach94]

You know what's a little spooky about this? The last defector who talked like this Was LSD, and he too had a rose for an avatar, or maybe a bunch of red posies, but still ....

(Cue "Twilight Zone" theme)

But hey, you'll find that in OI there are several people "outside of the far left" who care about commie ravings. Come on in and tell us the story, friend.

on edit: Hold it ... why is that your first post on revleft?
Funny you mention that; I saw LSD's post a while back. I agree with his conclusions.

Here's my story: capitalism can and has screwed humanity over in a thousand different ways. But it cemented it self and defeated communism. Whether or not that's a good thing is for historians to decide.

[Le Socialiste]

That's funny, seeing as the past two years have seen a massive rise in working-class activity and a return to class-based tactics and theory. Capitalism isn't sustainable in the long run, and it's certainly not here to stay. If you've drawn your conclusions from the past, without taking into account the material and sociopolitical conditions of the global class system, you'll find your theory is deeply flawed and can't adequately determine the relevancy of communist theory and practice. :)

[SVeach94]

This is turning into a "yeah-huh, not-uh" argument. If you say propaganda is forever, prove it.
Talk to any American and ask them what they think of communism. Look at American Cold War textbooks, look at where it is on the left-right spectrum. Here all of the rednecks saying how "communism just doesn't understand human nature."

Open your eyes. It's gone.

[Le Rouge]

Let's change communism's name then... Let's call it "Proletarism"

[Le Rouge]

Talk to any American and ask them what they think of communism. Look at American Cold War textbooks, look at where it is on the left-right spectrum. Here all of the rednecks saying how "communism just doesn't understand human nature."

Open your eyes. It's gone.

Open you eyes, there are other countries in the world than the US where people are less brainwashed about communism. You know, Russia?

[ZeroNowhere]

And that's why, as much as it might suck, the only thing we can do is hope to change capitalism so that it becomes slightly less oppressive. Guarantee rights for workers, universal health care, fair wages...they're not enough to fix all of capitalism's problems. But they'll have to do.

They're all we have left. The battle's over. The capitalists have won.

And you guys lost. Didn't you guys lose in the 70s?


Sorry if you don't want to hear this. But the bottom line is that spending your time on some forum nobody outside of the far left cares about ranting about problems you can't hope to fix won't change anything. It's a cruel, cruel world we live in, but we must play the hand we've been dealt.Oh, you're one of those posters. Leave your rhetoric by the door.


Let's change communism's name then... Let's call it "Proletarism"
Social-proletocracy!

[Le Socialiste]

Aye, I understand that. And I'm saying that's irrelevant. "Communism" has become equivalent with oppression and dictatorship, whether or not that's the actual ideology. And that can't be undone.

You'd be surprised to know how many people are pleasantly surprised or - at the very least - very welcoming of the fact that I'm a self-described anarchist. The old views of communism aren't going to last, they'll eventually fade (and are already in the process of doing so).

[CommunityBeliever]

Its over for capitalism. It had its time.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

But, as horrible as all of that is, here's the brutal truth that you guys don't want to hear - it's here to stay.
That's what the feudalists and their supporters thought, too.

[Broletariat]

Maybe it was a curse of ineffective leadership. Maybe if Lenin had lived a few years longer, maybe if a different leader than Stalin had come along, maybe if communism hadn't become synonymous with oppression and destruction of religion (regardless of whether or not the ideology actually subscribes to that), maybe if the USSR hadn't collapsed, if the Berlin Wall had never been built...


This right here tells me you have no idea what Communism is.

After all "The emancipation of the working class must be an act of the working class."

And definitely don't forget.

FvNb0x5muno

[Le Rouge]

It's over.

:crying:

[Sentinel]

Here's my thoughts: capitalism is a screwed up system in many ways. The tremendous exploitation and oppression, the destruction of the natrual environment, the grinding poverty some are forced to endure at the expense of others...it can be a pretty brutal system.

But, as horrible as all of that is, here's the brutal truth that you guys don't want to hear - it's here to stay. Seriously, had you said that for only five years ago it would have been different. I mean, I would have known that you were wrong but I would have understood your feelings. But today? :lol:

Perhaps you don't read the news much, but nowadays also capitalist theorists are beginning to admit that Marx economic theory was correct, that capitalism is suffering an inherent, systemic crisis rooted in overproduction and that it simply doesn't work. Of course they won't admit that Marx' solution to the problem is the right one as well, but soon enough that will be obvious to anyone.

Last time capitalism was in this deep a crisis it could only survive after the enormous devastation of means of production and infrastructure etc in WWII brought a halt to the development and created a temporary upswing. With the current situation with a globalised world, the nuclear deterrent etc etc it will be very hard to get the peoples of the world to begin another world war.

Even though capitalism indeed is characterised by hellish conditions, it's not about which system is nicer. It's about what works and what doesn't.

There is only one solution, and that is ours. We are the future.



Communist movements (or at least those who proclaimed themselves to be communists) had their chance. The Paris Commune, the Russian Revolution, the early socialist movement in the USA...in another world, revolutionary socialism could have defeated capitalism, and a different world could have emerged.

But it didn't.

Maybe it was a curse of ineffective leadership. Maybe if Lenin had lived a few years longer, maybe if a different leader than Stalin had come along, maybe if communism hadn't become synonymous with oppression and destruction of religion (regardless of whether or not the ideology actually subscribes to that), maybe if the USSR hadn't collapsed, if the Berlin Wall had never been built...

Maybe, maybe, maybe. A pointless game of speculation. But I digress.

Here's what I'm trying to get across: communism may or may not be a better system than capitalism (I presume most of you agree with the former). It may or may not have built a better world. Irregardless of what Cold War propaganda told kids in the west, it may have led to a better long term future for humanity.

The damage has been done. Cold War brainwashing and governments that claimed to be communist that were dictatorships have taken their toll. The USSR is gone, the Eastern Bloc is no more, China is capitalist in all but name...

...And you people are living in the past.

The workers' revolutions failed. The big corporations and the fatcat bankers, CEOs, and investors outsmarted Marx and his theories. Society has become addicted to cheap, abundant products, whether or not they were produced in slave labor conditions.

And that's why, as much as it might suck, the only thing we can do is hope to change capitalism so that it becomes slightly less oppressive. Guarantee rights for workers, universal health care, fair wages...they're not enough to fix all of capitalism's problems. But they'll have to do.

They're all we have left. The battle's over. The capitalists have won.

And you guys lost.

Capitalist movements such a the French revolution also 'had their chance', and were defeated by feudalists monarchists etc -- and still here we sit today with capitalism. Socio-economic systems change when the material conditions are ripe.

While it doesn't happen overnight, it's like a tide that can't be stopped. :)


Sorry if you don't want to hear this. But the bottom line is that spending your time on some forum nobody outside of the far left cares about ranting about problems you can't hope to fix won't change anything.And what exactly gave you the idea that's all we do? Obviously there may be some people here who do little else, but I'm for instance a member of a quite active, growing and thriving political party.



(P.S. - I find this little gulag you have set up for dissidents amusing. Reminds me of why people rejected communism in the first place...)Restriction is not a punishment for people we don't like, but a tool to moderate discussion. It would be impossible to have inter-leftist political debates otherwise, unfortunately not nearly all capitalism supporters are polite enough to self-restrict their posting to Opposing Ideologies themselves like you.

Think of it as a discussion club rather than a model for a society, and you will see what I mean.

[hatzel]

The only thing that's over (and rightly so) is the idea that anything could ever be over...

"All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better."

[Azraella]

We can't have lost. Our revolution has not come yet. :)

[La Comédie Noire]

There may be some truth in that the old generation, who grew up with the USSR and Cold War propaganda, will need to die out completely before communism/ socialism becomes a viable topic of discussion again in the Industrialized nations.

But to believe that ideas stand still and are once and for all is completely a historical, triumphalist muddle.

Until the last human being breaths their last breath, history will not have an end. By declaring the victory of capitalism and eternal social peace, you have already made yourself obsolete.

[Che a chara]

Fuck it everyone.

_hZrXdJ-ibo

:crying:

[Robert]

If you're familiar with LSD, you've been around here for years. So why was the OP your first post on Revleft?

Do you have another identity?

Don't be too hard on rednecks. Most are more anti-state than you are, in the Southern USA anyway.

[Le Rouge]

Abandon ship abandon shit.

[the Leftâ„¢]

What is this i dont even

[Rusty Shackleford]

Talk to any American and ask them what they think of communism. Look at American Cold War textbooks, look at where it is on the left-right spectrum. Here all of the rednecks saying how "communism just doesn't understand human nature."

Open your eyes. It's gone.
I'm American and I think Communism is super cool.

[chuy]

Talk to any American and ask them what they think of communism. Look at American Cold War textbooks, look at where it is on the left-right spectrum. Here all of the rednecks saying how "communism just doesn't understand human nature."

Open your eyes. It's gone.

You're not really going to argue that socialism is dead because of what your high school social studies textbook said are you i.e., that communism = authoritarian dictatorship, or that the last nail on socialism's coffin was hammered in based on some redneck's musings over "human nature".

You gotta have something a little better than that, right?

[Sentinel]

- Trashed spam pics -

Please don't post pictures etc. This user doesn't seem to be trolling but is polite enough, and while they are a political opponent, enemy even, they're a social democrat and not a fascist.

They sure are annoying, but it's for people like this to post -- and us to argue against them -- that OI exists. It's an important part of the purpose of the board, as it serves as a training ground for real life debates.

[xub3rn00dlex]

*Puts shackles on* I guess it's back to work as usual then? :crying:

[citizen of industry]

Why are you here then? Get back on your knees, open your mouth and enjoy the scraps that fall from the table. And remember to say "thank you very much."

"It's over"? "It" is happening all over the world, in mass uprisings, general strikes, in and outside of the labor movement, in cities all over the globe. "It" is getting larger and larger as capitalism convulses and seizures. If you don't want to be a part of it, fine. Bye.

[Robert]

Why am I the only one that thinks this guy has either never really heard of LSD or he's pretending to be new and he isn't.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Man
If the Frankfurt School dudes were around for revleft, would they have been restricted?

[#FF0000]

welp, pack it in guys. capitalism is the only thing on earth that lasts forever hjrfufgubrl

[Sentinel]

Why am I the only one that thinks this guy has either never really heard of LSD or he's pretending to be new and he isn't.

I agree that they sound mysteriously similar. There should be a little bit more bold text maybe, but otherwise it's uncanny. :lol:

[Yuppie Grinder]

I will always be a communist because I will always keep faith in the common, working person. I will always believe that that person deserves to be in control of their own life, deserves to be free. Abandoning that dream because you think their's no more hope for liberation is part of what's keeping workers movement from entering the political mainstream.

[Patagonia]

Imagine that I'm a little person now.

Imagine that I'm from Finland.

Picture me I'm dressed in leather and animals hides.

Now imagine me saying: "Cool story Hansel!"

[Misanthrope]

You really spent all that time to basically say "The USSR failed get over it". Like we haven't heard that before..

[Comrade Hill]

Alrighty, have a nice day.

Just remember, it took nearly 400 years for capitalism to come about. It is not going to take only 100 years for communism to come about.

If you would like to die thinking that capitalism is going to last forever, be my guest. I am not going to be that person. I want my children to have a future.

[Veovis]

Let's change communism's name then... Let's call it "Proletarism"

Better yet, how about Economic Democracy? People will immediately know what that means.

[Belleraphone]

What's ironic is that you could give this same speech to reactionary fascists in after WW2, talking about the defeat of fascism and how even if they're right, their ideology will never take hold again and capitalism will prevail. But look at what's happening in Europe now, the far right is on the rise in response to muslim immigration, everyday I'm seeing more and more idiots thinking that the entire system is controlled by Jews.


My point? History changes, opinion changes. Over time, anti-socialism propaganda will become more and more irrelevant as those that lived through the Red Scare will die off and a new generation will arise that was not exposed to such dogma. The academics who write about socialism and the USSR write now are primarily political scientists that are practically sponsored by the state will be replaced with more fact-based historians who are less politically motivated. As history goes on, the facts become less and less distorted because those in power have no motivation to hide the facts. This is why even the most bourgeois of the bourgeois historians can be trusted even by those on revleft to write about the Roman Empire, but not communist Cuba or modern day Iran.

You all remember, I suppose, that beautiful and inspired saying of Our Ford's: History is bunk.

[MarxSchmarx]

Hi there :)

I've been browsing RevLeft for quite some time just to see what the post-Roman republic liberal democrats are up to, and I thought I'd finally share my thoughts here. I expect to be restricted at some point, as I assume anyone right of a Marcus Aurelius is not welcome in other forums. Nonetheless, I'll post here.

Here's my thoughts: feudal monarchies are a screwed up system in many ways. The tremendous exploitation and oppression, the destruction of the natrual environment, the grinding poverty some are forced to endure at the expense of others...it can be a pretty brutal system.

But, as horrible as all of that is, here's the brutal truth that you guys don't want to hear - it's here to stay.

Democratic movements (or at least those who proclaimed themselves to be democratic) had their chance. Athens, the Roman Republic, the guilds...in another world, regular elections could have defeated hereditary divine right, and a different world could have emerged.

But it didn't.

Maybe it was a curse of ineffective leadership. Maybe if Pericles had lived a few years longer, maybe if a different leader than Alexander the Great had come along, maybe if democracy hadn't become synonymous with oppression and destruction of religion (regardless of whether or not the ideology actually subscribes to that), maybe if the Roman Republic hadn't collapsed, if the agora had never been built...

Maybe, maybe, maybe. A pointless game of speculation. But I digress.

Here's what I'm trying to get across: liberal democracy may or may not be a better system than feudal monarchies with divine right (I presume most of you agree with the former). It may or may not have built a better world. Irregardless (sic) of what Church propaganda told kids in the west, it may have led to a better long term future for humanity.

But that doesn't matter.

The damage has been done. Medieval brainwashing and governments that claimed to be democratic republics that were dictatorships have taken their toll. Athens is gone, the Roman Republic is no more, Florence is feudalist in all but name...

...And you people are living in the past.

The upper-middle classes' revolutions failed. The big hereditary aristocrats and the fatcat priests, Popes, and bishops outsmarted Cato and his theories. Society has become addicted to cheap, abundant spiritual advice, whether or not they were produced in slave labor conditions.

And that's why, as much as it might suck, the only thing we can do is hope to change feudalism so that it becomes slightly less oppressive. Guarantee rights for serfs, universal seed banks, fair whippings...they're not enough to fix all of feudalism's problems. But they'll have to do.

They're all we have left. The battle's over. The feudalists have won.

And you guys lost.

Sorry if you don't want to hear this. But the bottom line is that spending your time on some forum nobody outside of the far left cares about ranting about problems you can't hope to fix won't change anything. It's a cruel, cruel world we live in, but we must play the hand we've been dealt.

(P.S. - I find this little guillotine you have set up for dissidents amusing. Reminds me of why people rejected capitalist democracy in the first place...)

[Belleraphone]

^I fell out of my chair laughing.

[the Leftâ„¢]

hi there :)

i've been browsing revleft for quite some time just to see what the post-roman republic liberal democrats are up to, and i thought i'd finally share my thoughts here. I expect to be restricted at some point, as i assume anyone right of a marcus aurelius is not welcome in other forums. Nonetheless, i'll post here.

Here's my thoughts: Feudal monarchies are a screwed up system in many ways. The tremendous exploitation and oppression, the destruction of the natrual environment, the grinding poverty some are forced to endure at the expense of others...it can be a pretty brutal system.

But, as horrible as all of that is, here's the brutal truth that you guys don't want to hear - it's here to stay.

Democratic movements (or at least those who proclaimed themselves to be democratic) had their chance. Athens, the roman republic, the guilds...in another world, regular elections could have defeated hereditary divine right, and a different world could have emerged.

But it didn't.

Maybe it was a curse of ineffective leadership. Maybe if pericles had lived a few years longer, maybe if a different leader than alexander the great had come along, maybe if democracy hadn't become synonymous with oppression and destruction of religion (regardless of whether or not the ideology actually subscribes to that), maybe if the roman republic hadn't collapsed, if the agora had never been built...

Maybe, maybe, maybe. A pointless game of speculation. But i digress.

Here's what i'm trying to get across: Liberal democracy may or may not be a better system than feudal monarchies with divine right (i presume most of you agree with the former). It may or may not have built a better world. Irregardless (sic) of what church propaganda told kids in the west, it may have led to a better long term future for humanity.

but that doesn't matter.

the damage has been done. Medieval brainwashing and governments that claimed to be democratic republics that were dictatorships have taken their toll. Athens is gone, the roman republic is no more, florence is feudalist in all but name...

...and you people are living in the past.

The upper-middle classes' revolutions failed. The big hereditary aristocrats and the fatcat priests, popes, and bishops outsmarted cato and his theories. Society has become addicted to cheap, abundant spiritual advice, whether or not they were produced in slave labor conditions.

And that's why, as much as it might suck, the only thing we can do is hope to change feudalism so that it becomes slightly less oppressive. Guarantee rights for serfs, universal seed banks, fair whippings...they're not enough to fix all of feudalism's problems. But they'll have to do.

They're all we have left. The battle's over. The feudalists have won.

And you guys lost.

Sorry if you don't want to hear this. But the bottom line is that spending your time on some forum nobody outside of the far left cares about ranting about problems you can't hope to fix won't change anything. It's a cruel, cruel world we live in, but we must play the hand we've been dealt.

(p.s. - i find this little guillotine you have set up for dissidents amusing. Reminds me of why people rejected capitalist democracy in the first place...)

lololol

[Die Neue Zeit]

The damage has been done. Cold War brainwashing and governments that claimed to be communist that were dictatorships have taken their toll. The USSR is gone, the Eastern Bloc is no more, China is capitalist in all but name...

...And you people are living in the past.

Have you been paying any attention at all to the Occupy protests and strikes?


And that's why, as much as it might suck, the only thing we can do is hope to change capitalism so that it becomes slightly less oppressive. Guarantee rights for workers, universal health care, fair wages...they're not enough to fix all of capitalism's problems. But they'll have to do.

Social democracy is thankfully on the decline, being replaced by right-populism and left-populism and left-radicalism. Where you wish to place the likes of "socialism of the 21st century" with regards to the latter two is up to you.

[Smyg]

This guy is hilarious.

[Rocky Rococo]

The concrete reality is this:

The 20th Century Synthesis has collapsed as a result of the successful assault on the self-organization of the working class by a mobilized bourgeoisie with a massive economic, political, technological and social-psychological arsenal. Certainly there's been a massive and almost total defeat of the workers' movements and organizations that went before.

But!

That end of the 20th century synthesis doesn't negate the fact that history is materialist in its basis. That doesn't refute the reality that the conditions of the working classes are being eroded, gutted, outright plundered to serve the interest, the demand of the ruling 1% for an ever-greater return on their accumulated capital. There are billions of us, and not all of us will roll over and submit to our own evisceration. (For instance, you may be willing to do so, most of us here are not.)

With the end of the 20th century synthesis, the 21st century social crisis is upon us. yes, we are thrown way back in the course of our development. But that's not an entirely negative thing. That means we get to learn from the errors of those who went before, to make our movements better, stronger, more inclusive, more egalitarian more libertarian and more democratic than ever before.

Listen to the old man in the museum:


proletarian revolutions ... constantly criticize themselves, constantly interrupt themselves in their own course, return to the apparently accomplished, in order to begin anew; they deride with cruel thoroughness the half-measures, weaknesses, and paltriness of their first attempts, seem to throw down their opponents only so the latter may draw new strength from the earth and rise before them again more gigantic than ever, recoil constantly from the indefinite colossalness of their own goals – until a situation is created which makes all turning back impossible, and the conditions themselves call out: Hic Rhodus, hic salta!



That's a Rhodus you've got in your avatar, is it not?

Hic Rhodus, hic salta.

Consider the Greeks.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Any glance at modern history should be an indication of how quickly "common ideas" change. Read about the US Civil War or any historical upheaval and you see what people thought impossible on year is reality a few years later. John Brown was hanged for fighting a war against slavery and then during the civil war people saw him as a martyr and sang songs about him as they marched to the south. The French Revolutionaries went from seeing the King as their potential defender and wanting a constitutional monarchy to executing him as any enemy of the people. Russia began WWI with a huge wave of patriotism and nationalism and ended it with soldiers turining their guns on their officers and government. During the cold war, in the 1970s, 2/3rds of young people in the US said they thought a revolution was going to happen and groups like the Black Panthers were holding mass meetings when just over a decade before was McCarthyism.

We have been in a long period of stagnation and loss for the working class - a one sided class war during which the mantra "there is no alternative" was drummed into us. So some people adapt to these ideas - the progressives certainty did and dropped all pretense of social reformism in favor of neo-liberalism. And why wouldn't some people adopt these ideas when there are armies of panglossian professional academics, politicians, and media people constantly telling us that this is the best of all possible worlds. But it just doesn't hold up historically - particularly in US history which is charaterized by long spells of repression and inactivity among people and then explosions of radicalism in short and sharp bursts. Capitalist society is a pressure cooker and just because it may seem like it takes forever for water to heat-up, it doesn't mean things won't boil over.

[RGacky3]

The big corporations and the fatcat bankers, CEOs, and investors outsmarted Marx and his theories.

Read Marx ...