Anarchy!!!

[ВАЛТЕР]

I know this isn't what anarchy is, but I couldn't help but laugh.:laugh:

h2Aqfp5iMnw

[tir1944]

lol'd

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

This is brilliant.

[ВАЛТЕР]

we can go see movies for free now! :laugh:

[Apoi_Viitor]

Wait, this isn't what anarchy is?

[khlib]

This was really funny. In related news, I just met an anarcho-primitivist, and sent him this video...on his computer.

[Obs]

You're titoists and making fun of other tendencies?

[khlib]

Titoism worked in practice in modern times for over 20,000,000 people for almost 50 years... and anarchism?

[eyeheartlenin]

Titoism worked in practice in modern times for over 20,000,000 people for almost 50 years... and anarchism?

Just out of curiosity, does khlib mean "bread"? Former students of Russian (I could not write "Russian majors," because that might be misunderstood) want to know! If not, what is the Serbian (or Croatian) word for "bread"? And does the "Serbo-Croatian" language still exist? (Probably not as a single language, I am guessing.) In the sixties, I was in university with the daughter of the editor of Politika. She used to say, "All Yugoslavia reads Politika." Being Serbian, she spoke Russian far better than we Americans could.

[Искра]

Just out of curiosity, does khlib mean "bread"? Former students of Russian (I could not write "Russian majors," because that might be misunderstood) want to know! If not, what is the Serbian (or Croatian) word for "bread"?
Serbian: hleb, kruv
Croatian: kruh


And does the "Serbo-Croatian" language still exist? (Probably not as a single language, I am guessing.)
No. They are spearated. After all - all languages are based on realpolitik.


In the sixties, I was in university with the daughter of the editor of Politika. She used to say, "All Yugoslavia reads Politika." Being Serbian, she spoke Russian far better than we Americans could
I'm learning russian and it's quite easy for me. :) Russian is so gentle language compared to Croatian and Serbian :)

[khlib]

"Khlib" means bread in Ukrainian. In Croatian, the word is "kruh," and in Serbian, "Хлеб" or "hleb." As of the early 1990's, Serbo-Croatian has officially broken into three new languages: Bosnian, Croatian, and Serbian. They are all mutually intelligible, with fewer differences between them than exist between American and British English. The word for "bread" is actually one of the few vocabulary differences that is notably marked as Serbian or Croatian (much like truck/lorry in English).

[ВАЛТЕР]

I am about to start taking Russian classes here in the beginning of December. I expect to pick it up quickly as most Slavic languages are quite similar. Plus, my Russian friend in the US always got yelled at by his parents when growing up and I learned quickly how to imitate his mom lol

Scaring him half to death when we are out and about and I screech out "Adryusha! Shto ti deaeysh!" :laugh: or "Adryusha what are you doing!"

[khlib]

Valter and Kontrra, can you guys read Russian and understand it, more or less, or are there too many grammatical/vocabulary differences?

[Искра]

But there gramatical difference between Serbian and Croatian.

[Искра]

Valter and Kontrra, can you guys read Russian and understand it, more or less, or are there too many grammatical/vocabulary differences?
Russian is different than Croatian. Without knowing it you can't understand it.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Valter and Kontrra, can you guys read Russian and understand it, more or less, or are there too many grammatical/vocabulary differences?

I can read it, and get a general idea of what the text is about. However, to read it word for word, pronunciation and all, I can't do that....yet.

[eyeheartlenin]

Friends, thank you for the interesting posts about language and for answering my questions!

As for "all languages [being] based on realpolitik," that is true. There was a European lexicographer, Weinreich, who said, "A language is just a dialect with an army and a navy."

I always wondered why it was necessary for imperialism to dismember Yugoslavia. Years ago, during NATO's attack on Yugoslavia, I participated in an antiwar demonstration in Boston, that was led by local Serbian people.

Studying Russian was a lot of fun! We went from vot idut studienty, "Here come the students," to reading Pushkin and Dostoyevsky, in 3-4 years. I am sure you will enjoy Russian.

[Tablo]

What does all this language stuff have to do with anarchy?

Get out of my chit-chat with this intelligent conversation. :cursing:

[ВАЛТЕР]

What does all this language stuff have to do with anarchy?

Get out of my chit-chat with this intelligent conversation. :cursing:

ANARCHY!!! FREE MOVIES!!:lol:

[Susurrus]

For the other tendencies:
taYThk1FX2k

Beware of Evil Communists with Russian/Italian/French/Louisianian/Texan accents.


IVG1_lnjw2s

Soviet power+candy=communism

[Искра]

This is chit-chat and we can have serious discussion if we like! :cool:


As for "all languages based on realpolitik," that is true. There was a European lexicographer, Weinreich, who said, [B]"A language is just a dialect with an army and a navy."
I like this one :)


I always wondered why it was necessary for imperialism to dismember Yugoslavia. Years ago, during NATO's attack on Yugoslavia, I participated in an antiwar demonstration in Boston, that was led by local Serbian people. I don’t think that this is just act of imperialism. War was certainly act of Serbian imperialism etc, but collapse of Yugoslavia was more complex thing. I wrote a good post on that subject here: http://www.revleft.com/vb/serbia-blame-collapse-t162057/index.html?p=2250406#post2250406

But, if you wanna discuss this we can go on PM, cause this is a chit chat :lol:

[ВАЛТЕР]

Hold on a second?!!! Communism equals FREE candy?!!! This sounds better every day!

[ВАЛТЕР]

This is chit-chat and we can have serious discussion if we like! :cool:


I like this one :)

I don’t think that this is just act of imperialism. War was certainly act of Serbian imperialism etc, but collapse of Yugoslavia was more complex thing. I wrote a good post on that subject here: http://www.revleft.com/vb/serbia-blame-collapse-t162057/index.html?p=2250406#post2250406

But, if you wanna discuss this we can go on PM, cause this is a chit chat :lol:

Serbian imperialism? There cannot be Imperialism within a single nation (Yugoslavia). In the beginning the JNA was simply fighting to keep the state intact.

There were ethnic conflicts, but no imperialism took place. Idk what you label as imperialism but Serbs defended what they viewed as theirs. That cannot be imperialism considering much of the areas fought over had high concentrations of Serbs living there.

[Искра]

Serbian imperialism? There cannot be Imperialism within a single nation (Yugoslavia). In the beginning the JNA was simply fighting to keep the state intact.
Uf, this statement is really problematic. Yugoslav National Army at the beginning of 90’s was an instrument of Serbian imperialism. When Vukovar was attacked there was no Yugoslavia anymore, because Slovenia and Croatia voted independence and Bosnia and Macedonia followed them. Yugoslavia was over. There was still a “Yugoslavia” consisted of Serbia and Montenegro, but I’ll call it Serbia... So, when I say “Serbian imperialism” I mean on attempt by new Serbian bourgeoisies to create mythical Great Serbia. Regarding local Serbs in Croatia, Kosovo and Bosnia they were victims of nationalist Serbian propaganda which made them paranoid. This propaganda was saying that they’ll all soon become victims of genocide just like they were butchered in Jasenovac during WW2. This situation is to complex for Chit-Chat! :D

[Azraella]

ANARCHY!!! FREE MOVIES!!:lol:

Damn skippy. Make that free music too. :lol:

[ВАЛТЕР]

Uf, this statement is really problematic. Yugoslav National Army at the beginning of 90’s was an instrument of Serbian imperialism. When Vukovar was attacked there was no Yugoslavia anymore, because Slovenia and Croatia voted independence and Bosnia and Macedonia followed them. Yugoslavia was over. There was still a “Yugoslavia” consisted of Serbia and Montenegro, but I’ll call it Serbia... So, when I say “Serbian imperialism” I mean on attempt by new Serbian bourgeoisies to create mythical Great Serbia. Regarding local Serbs in Croatia, Kosovo and Bosnia they were victims of nationalist Serbian propaganda which made them paranoid. This propaganda was saying that they’ll all soon become victims of genocide just like they were butchered in Jasenovac during WW2. This situation is to complex for Chit-Chat! :D

And where they not butchered? Where they not driven from Krajina by aggressive Croat nationalist forces? Because that is what happened. There was no Imperialist greater Serbia. It just referred to the regions in which Serbs were the majority since the Serbs wanted to stay in a single state. Imperialism is not the word to use for it, nationalism from all sides is at fault, but to accuse Serbs of Imperialism is nonsense.

[Искра]

I’m not trying to justify Croatian or Bosnian nationalism (I’m not mental), but to present certain historical facts by with you can clearly see that Serbia was imperialist towards Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.

And here are some of them:



All countries which separated from Yugoslavia did that according to borders of Yugoslav 1974’s constitution.
Serbian nationalist propaganda started in 1989. During that time Croatia and Bosnia were still part of Yugoslavia. Of course, Serbs from Croatia were repressed and murdered because of their ethnicity, but these events started to happen after war started. Before “Plitvice incident” or “Borovo incident” there are no records of Croatian abuse of Serbs. Croatian and Bosnian nationalism was sparked with war threat and it developed later.
Serbian bourgeoisie wanted to create ethically clean Great Serbia. Therefore they attacked Croatia and Bosnia, whit help from local Serbs who were manipulated by nationalist propaganda.
This is a discussion for Western Balkans forum.

[khlib]

When Vukovar was attacked there was no Yugoslavia anymore, because Slovenia and Croatia voted independence
didn't the local Serb populations boycott the referendum?


There was no Imperialist greater Serbia. It just referred to the regions in which Serbs were the majority since the Serbs wanted to stay in a single state.
according to the Variant A/Variant B document, you can see that the SDS made plans to also take over areas where Serbs did not constitute a majority (Variant B):
http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/documents/variantABenglish.pdf

[Susurrus]

Oh revleft threads, will you ever stay on topic?

[ВАЛТЕР]

I’m not trying to justify Croatian or Bosnian nationalism (I’m not mental), but to present certain historical facts by with you can clearly see that Serbia was imperialist towards Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.

And here are some of them:



All countries which separated from Yugoslavia did that according to borders of Yugoslav 1974’s constitution.
Serbian nationalist propaganda started in 1989. During that time Croatia and Bosnia were still part of Yugoslavia. Of course, Serbs from Croatia were repressed and murdered because of their ethnicity, but these events started to happen after war started. Before “Plitvice incident” or “Borovo incident” there are no records of Croatian abuse of Serbs. Croatian and Bosnian nationalism was sparked with war threat and it developed later.
Serbian bourgeoisie wanted to create ethically clean Great Serbia. Therefore they attacked Croatia and Bosnia, whit help from local Serbs who were manipulated by nationalist propaganda.
This is a discussion for Western Balkans forum.




Imperialist towards Bosnia? Bosnia was doomed to be a hellhole in the war because it has a population of up to 50 percent Serbs in it. It wasn't a war of aggression it was pure civil war.

Croatia? Did the JNA blitz in and crush Zagreb under its heel? Because it damn sure could have in the beginning had it seen a problem with the secession, it did not. It pulled out and decided to allow Croatia to secede, same as in Slovenia.

Serbs in Krajina did not want to live in the Croat state, propaganda being at fault or not the people in that region wanted to stay in a single nation with Serbia. Croatians refused to allow it, so the fighting to secede broke out, with the JNA lending support as Krajina was going to become part of Yugoslavia.

Kosovo, is a different story all together. There is no imperialism there, Kosovo has always been a part of Serbia and would be to this day had NATO not launched its viscous war of aggression against the Serb population indiscriminately murdering civilians as it pleased. If a region is part of the same country it CANNOT be imperialism, it can only be civil war. Serbs in Kosovo were butchered by the Albanians, and then under the nose of the occupying NATO forces were driven from their homes.

I am not defending Serb ethnic cleansing actions which we all now took place on all sides, I am defending Serbs from being accused of Imperialism which is a baseless claim. That would be like accusing the American Indians of imperialism when they were trying to regain land they had taken from them.

Playing the "blame the Serb" game is getting really old, especially with throwing out accusations of imperialism now. Wanting to secede from a state which considered them second class citizens is imperialism? the Croats didn't respect the Serbs, they hated them this is a fact, it was then and is now.


Call it propaganda but we all saw the Croat soldiers in their Nazi Ustasha insignias coming through Krajina massacring anybody who was not a Catholic.


Don't throw about words like "Imperialism" simply to make the Serbs look bad which is what the goal was in your statement. You could have chosen any other words but you went with "Serb Imperialism" not the "spread of nationalism" or other more realistic claims. Hell saying "Revival of Ustasha ideology" would have been a far more accurate description of what caused greater tensions, but that would have struck too close to home and made Croats look bad.

I am not going to have this discussion in the Western Balkans thread because it started here and it will end here.

[Agent Ducky]

Oh revleft threads, will you ever stay on topic?

Never. This be Chit-Chat.

[Vendetta]

zduKIF5Mo0k

[Susurrus]

Never. This be Chit-Chat.

I read that in Captain Barbarossa voice.

http://diablo.incgamers.com/gallery/data/500/medium/lol-troll-threads.jpg

[Agent Ducky]

I read that in Captain Barbarossa voice.

That was kinda the intention XD.

[Magón]

Anarchy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Apoi_Viitor]

oh revleft threads, will you ever stay on topic?

He sounds like a cop!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tir1944]

I’m not trying to justify Croatian or Bosnian nationalism (I’m not mental), but to present certain historical facts by with you can clearly see that Serbia was imperialist towards Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.
Imperialist in what way? Whose definition of "imperialism" are you using?


All countries which separated from Yugoslavia did that according to borders of Yugoslav 1974’s constitution.
IIRC the Constituion spoke of the rights of self-determination of peoples,not repuplics.


Serbian nationalist propaganda started in 1989.
Serbian nationalist propaganda started years before that,but so did the Croatian on.In fact,i'd say that they never really stopped after WW2 except for a short period of time!



Imperialist towards Bosnia? Bosnia was doomed to be a hellhole in the war because it has a population of up to 50 percent Serbs in it. It wasn't a war of aggression it was pure civil war.
I don't really thinks it qualifies as a civil war,i'd rather say it was an inter-ethnic conflict because only a relatively small (although not neglibigle) part of the Serbian and Croat ethnic groups remained loyal to the government in Sarajevo.



Croatia? Did the JNA blitz in and crush Zagreb under its heel? Because it damn sure could have in the beginning had it seen a problem with the secession, it did not.
Hardly.JNA barely took Vukovar by the Serbian border and was stopped before Osijek.

[tir1944]

No offense,but i think that both Kontra and Valter stand on bourgeois nationalist positions.
Kontra denies the Krajina Serbian people their right for self-determination and Valter does the same to the Albanian people on Kosovo.