Communism in BABY-terms

[Afghan]

Hi everyone,

I have the following questions, and I hope you guys can answer them in the simplest terms possible :

1- WHAT is communism?

2- Did communism intend to ban religion? (Did communists ban religion?)

3- Did communism say that nobody should have his own businesses/shops? (Did people in communist countries have their own businesses like in the west now?)

4- Did communism say that wealth/possessions of the rich should be forcefully taken and given to the poor? (Did communists do this in China, Russia, Afghanistan etc?)

5- Did communism say that a cleaner and professor should earn the same ammount? So the person who WORKS more, does not GET more. All get equal.

6- Can a communist be a Muslim-Jew-Christian?


More questions will follow. Thank you for your time.

[The Idler]

1. Communism is a synonym for socialism. Both are a stateless, classless, moneyless society of free access with production for need not profit. Neither have ever existed in modern society.
2. Communism is a materialist philosophy and therefore opposed to religion, but banning sounds a bit totalitarian. I think the only country in history to have done this was Albania.
3. The means of production (businesses, shops) should be under everyone's control.
4. Communism (as defined above) has never existed. Some capitalist regimes (calling themselves communist or socialist) have seized real property (not personal property) and generally compensated owners.
5. Communism is an abundant society of free access so the wage-system would no longer exist.
6. Depends who you ask, but as above, communism is a materialist philosophy and religion is broadly the creation of the ruling-class to mask class divisions.

[Azraella]

Hi everyone,

I have the following questions, and I hope you guys can answer them in the simplest terms possible :

1- WHAT is communism? -- LC: a classless stateless society

2- Did communism intend to ban religion? (Did communists ban religion?) LC: No.

3- Did communism say that nobody should have his own businesses/shops? (Did people in communist countries have their own businesses like in the west now?) LC: All belongs to all. The means of production should be held in common ownership

4- Did communism say that wealth/possessions of the rich should be forcefully taken and given to the poor? (Did communists do this in China, Russia, Afghanistan etc?) LC: Once we get to this point there will no longer be a wage system. However wealth will be redistributed.

5- Did communism say that a cleaner and professor should earn the same ammount? So the person who WORKS more, does not GET more. All get equal. LC: See above

6- Can a communist be a Muslim-Jew-Christian? LC: I don't see why not.


More questions will follow. Thank you for your time.

Final point. We never had a communist society. That is all.

[Aurora]

1)Communism is a society without classes i.e where everyone has the same relationship to production. All members of society work to the best of their abilities and receive society's products according to their needs.

2)No, communists think religion is a personal affair and not the business of anyone else.

3)Yes, initially it will only be necessary to take over the large businesses and small business will be encouraged to become socialised until there is no class of business owners.

4)Yes, the wealth of the rich has been accumulated by employing the labour of the poor. In communism there will be no more rich and poor but the first step is for the poor to take control of that wealth.

5)Yes, although no one suggests that this is immediately possible today, that's the end of a long process of transformation of society and people along with it.

6)Yes, wanting to see a communist society is compatible with religion, there can be communist muslims but there cannot be an islamic communism, communism is a secular ideology.

[Decolonize The Left]

Hi everyone,

I have the following questions, and I hope you guys can answer them in the simplest terms possible :

1- WHAT is communism?

Communism is an economic system whereby the working class controls the means of production. It is generally conceived of as a classless, stateless, society.


2- Did communism intend to ban religion? (Did communists ban religion?)

Many communists are also religious. Many aren't.

In general, communism is a materialist philosophy and so it is fundamentally not concerned with questions of religion which are idealist.


3- Did communism say that nobody should have his own businesses/shops? (Did people in communist countries have their own businesses like in the west now?)

Under communism, the working class will possess and control the means of production (the shops/industries/factories/etc...). So yes, people can have 'their own shops' but the relationship between people and property will be fundamentally different.


4- Did communism say that wealth/possessions of the rich should be forcefully taken and given to the poor? (Did communists do this in China, Russia, Afghanistan etc?)

What you are thinking of is called 'redistribution of wealth.' And yes, many communists think that this is a necessary idea. Please note that this is only possibly before and during the actual transition to communism, because once communism is established, there will be no such thing as 'individual wealth' as we know it today.


5- Did communism say that a cleaner and professor should earn the same ammount? So the person who WORKS more, does not GET more. All get equal.

No. This is a misconception. Under communism there will be no wage, and so there can be no 'equal pay' in the sense that we understand it today.

To each according to need, from each according to ability.


6- Can a communist be a Muslim-Jew-Christian?

Yes of course.

- August

[piet11111]

Communists would oppose religious indoctrination of children.

Some religions also oppose stuff like vaccinations and blood transfusions even with children this in my opinion equals child abuse and should again in my opinion result in the parents being removed from parental care and the child put in a foster home.

If your so religiously batshit crazy that you would let your kid die on the operating table because your against blood-transfusions then your unfit as a parent simple as that.

[Nox]

Hi everyone,

I have the following questions, and I hope you guys can answer them in the simplest terms possible :

1- WHAT is communism?

Communism is a society in which the means of production (factories, land, resources) are owned collectively, thus there are no classes, also there is no need for a state so there are no states.

2- Did communism intend to ban religion? (Did communists ban religion?)

Yes. For good reasons. Not many Communists will be direct and to the point about this, so I might as well say it how it is: Religion is filth and anti-scientific nonsense.

3- Did communism say that nobody should have his own businesses/shops? (Did people in communist countries have their own businesses like in the west now?)

Nobody owns a business because that would mean owning the means of production. However, businesses in the form of farms, mines, shops, schools etc did exist, businesses are controlled entirely by the workers themselves.

4- Did communism say that wealth/possessions of the rich should be forcefully taken and given to the poor? (Did communists do this in China, Russia, Afghanistan etc?)

Yes. And rightly so. Nobody has any right to have any more/less than anyone else when they both do the same amount of work.

5- Did communism say that a cleaner and professor should earn the same ammount? So the person who WORKS more, does not GET more. All get equal.

A cleaner works alot harder than a professor. You need to totally rethink your idea of the word 'work'.

6- Can a communist be a Muslim-Jew-Christian?

As you learn about Communism, your religious views will wear off, I've seen it happen to many people.

It's difficult to answer, but overall I'd say no. I, for one, would not consider any Muslim/Christian/Jew to be my comrade.

More questions will follow. Thank you for your time.

There :)

[The Insurrection]

1. Communism is a synonym for socialism. Both are a stateless, classless, moneyless society of free access with production for need not profit. Neither have ever existed in modern society.

That's not at all accurate. Socialism is political and economic system of government, based on a planned economy and a centralised state. Communism is a social relationship.

[The Insurrection]

1- WHAT is communism?

It's a social relationship predicated on the idea that society should work together to ensure it's continued survival. The other answers that people have given are technically correct i.e. it's classless and stateless.

The maxim "from each according to ability; to each according to need" is the basis of this social relationship. In other words, you, as an individual give to society what your ability allows and you take back from society only that which you need to live a comfortable, happy life.


2- Did communism intend to ban religion? (Did communists ban religion?)

Communism's never existed. And since it's a social relationship, it can't really ban anything.

But since communism dervies from a philosophy that teaches that the only things that are real are things that you can test through observation, then it follows that the belief in God and systems created around that belief are at odds with communism.


3- Did communism say that nobody should have his own businesses/shops? (Did people in communist countries have their own businesses like in the west now?)

There have never been any communist countries. In a communist society, there would be no business, since we'd have a gift economy.


4- Did communism say that wealth/possessions of the rich should be forcefully taken and given to the poor? (Did communists do this in China, Russia, Afghanistan etc?)

No.


5- Did communism say that a cleaner and professor should earn the same ammount? So the person who WORKS more, does not GET more. All get equal.

Work in a communist society isn't about earning a wage. People are expected to do things that are societally necessary. A cleaner is just as important to society than a professor. Society needs them both in equal measure. Although in a communist society the concept of a 'professor' would be very different, since the attainment of knowledge wouldn't be an exclusive thing. I'm paraphrasing Marx, but the idea is that "everyone would be a cleaner and everyone would be a professor."

Also, money wouldn't exist in a communist society, so wages would also not exist.


6- Can a communist be a Muslim-Jew-Christian?

Some people attempt to reconcile their belief in God with communism, but in my view they don't do it successfully.

[Afghan]

I thank you all for your comments, I've read them all with eagerness. Some issues have been clarified to me now.


Please allow me to say:

1- Because your comments are contradictory , I assume the diffinition of "communism" changes depending on the person you ask. There is not a written text , titled : "THIS is communism". It's not written in stone. Every person has his/her own difinition of "communism" , it seems.

Would you agree?


2- Some of you said: communism is "stateless society" well, then who does the policing? Who runs the judicial system?

Is a herd able to guide itself?

How come not a single country on earth is like this in the 21st century?


3- Some said the "wage system would no longer exist", but this is when the utopia is achieved - how about the process before we get there?

If I earn (let's say) $100 a day and another person earns $1 a day. Would my money be taken away from me and given to the other person - as to make our earnings equal?

[Bardo]

1- Because your comments are contradictory , I assume the diffinition of "communism" changes depending on the person you ask. There is not a written text , titled : "THIS is communism". It's not written in stone. Every person has his/her own difinition of "communism" , it seems.


It looks to me like everyone's response to "what is communism?" was pretty much the exact same. :confused:

[La Peur Rouge]

Well.


Please allow me to say:

1- Because your comments are contradictory , I assume the diffinition of "communism" changes depending on the person you ask. There is not a written text , titled : "THIS is communism". It's not written in stone. Every person has his/her own difinition of "communism" , it seems.

Would you agree?

None of the comments made were contradictory. Communism is classless, stateless society.

2- Some of you said: communism is "stateless society" well, then who does the policing? Who runs the judicial system?

We do. "Policing" and the "Judicial system" would not be the same as they are under capitalist society.

Is a herd able to guide itself?

The human race isn't a herd.

How come not a single country on earth is like this in the 21st century?

Because "countries" would not exist.

3- Some said the "wage system would no longer exist", but this is when the utopia is achieved - how about the process before we get there?

We're not trying to build a utopia, Marx makes this very clear.

If I earn (let's say) $100 a day and another person earns $1 a day. Would my money be taken away from me and given to the other person - as to make our earnings equal?

No because money would not exist.

[Geiseric]

It isnt so much about what somebody "earns" as decreed by a bourgeois or beurecratic boss, it's about a society providing fair compensation for the members of said society's labor. a person at mcdonalds creates so much more wealth with their labor than what they're compensated with minimum wage. Organised religeon that has in its purpose to be in a reactionary role would be outlawed. If everybody is employed, they will have no reason to commit crimes. The days of 10 hour workdays at 9 bucks an hour will be over, it would end up being everybody works less but is just paid fairly. that's how I see socialism working, eventually when it evolves into communism and the state withers away, it'll be a whole other story.

[CommunityBeliever]

Did communism say that nobody should have his own businesses/shops?

Retailing will always be necessary, it will just be radically different in communist societies.


Did communism say that wealth/possessions of the rich should be forcefully taken and given to the poor? (Did communists do this in China, Russia, Afghanistan etc?)


Yes and yes.


Did communism say that a cleaner and professor should earn the same ammount? So the person who WORKS more, does not GET more. All get equal.

No. There won't really be a concept of "earning" things like there is today, because there will be no money.


How come not a single country on earth is like this in the 21st century?


We are working on it.

Communism
In general, communism is classlessness. More specifically, communism is the lack of distinct social relations to production. This occurred in primitive societies that didn't really have any means of production, and it will occur again in technologically advanced societies once the working class gains control of society.


Because your comments are contradictory , I assume the diffinition of "communism" changes depending on the person you ask. There is not a written text , titled : "THIS is communism". It's not written in stone. Every person has his/her own difinition of "communism" , it seems.

There are many forms of communism (e.g primitive communism), but their common characteristic is classlessness.


Some of you said: communism is "stateless society" well, then who does the policing? Who runs the judicial system?

One of the principles of historical materialism is:

Classes → States

Look at primitive communist societies: they did not yet have any state. It is only when social classes arose that the state, as well as things like police forces, and judicial systems, arose. They are a means of controlling the lower classes, in a classless society they will be unnecessary.

Religion


Did communism intend to ban religion?

Communists directly oppose most forms of organised religion.

In most class societies so far, religion played a vital role in a state theocracy. See Saudia Arabia, the Vatican City, Israel, and the Tibetan administration for modern examples. Since the enlightenment there have been some class societies with separation of church and state, but even then, the religions in these societies get unfair advantages from their economic status.


Can a communist be a Muslim-Jew-Christian?

Yes.

It is important to distinguish between the organised level and the personal level. Communists generally do not direct people's personal activities, so we don't oppose personal religion anymore then we oppose personal property.

[piet11111]

Its not money you get but food water gas electricity and a nice house to live in and all sorts of luxery goods and other essentials.

Or do you think a doctor needs to eat twice as much steak as the janitor ? :laugh:

[The Idler]

That's not at all accurate. Socialism is political and economic system of government, based on a planned economy and a centralised state. Communism is a social relationship.
Lenin might have thought so, but Marx certainly didn't. If a planned economy and centralised state amounted to socialism, Saudi Arabia would be a fine example of socialism.

I thank you all for your comments, I've read them all with eagerness. Some issues have been clarified to me now.


Please allow me to say:

1- Because your comments are contradictory , I assume the diffinition of "communism" changes depending on the person you ask. There is not a written text , titled : "THIS is communism". It's not written in stone. Every person has his/her own difinition of "communism" , it seems.

Would you agree?


2- Some of you said: communism is "stateless society" well, then who does the policing? Who runs the judicial system?

Is a herd able to guide itself?

How come not a single country on earth is like this in the 21st century?


3- Some said the "wage system would no longer exist", but this is when the utopia is achieved - how about the process before we get there?

If I earn (let's say) $100 a day and another person earns $1 a day. Would my money be taken away from me and given to the other person - as to make our earnings equal?
1. There is a written text which most people on revleft would agree with called The Communist Manifesto (1848). Although the 10 points are fairly irrelevant now, the manifesto is very short, so read it.
2. Any social sanction necessary would be done transparently, accountably and democratically.
Not a single country on earth is communist because it will necessarily be a global system and requires workers to consciously act (and succeed) to overthrow the class system. Its called class struggle because its slow and difficult. So far the class system has actively suppressed, undermined and diverted the working-class from class struggle. The class system has not yet been overcome.
3. There is some disagreement over the process and prospects of achieving a wageless society. Since (even equal) wages represent extracting surplus value, they are by their nature exploitative. If wages still exist then a form of exploitation still exists. I wouldn't call this communism or socialism. Contrary to popular belief, we already have an society abundant in resources and labour, so with a majority of class-conscious workers why would anything short of abolishing wages be necessary? Free access is possible now.

[Mr. Natural]

Afghan, I appreciate your open but critical mind. I believe that's the first and most important asset a leftist must cultivate. Dogma is dead.

How did Marx and Engels understand communism? "We shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all." (Manifesto)

And: "Communism as the positive transcendence of private property, or human self-estrangement, and therefore as the real appropriation of the human essence by and for man; communism therefore as the complete return or man to imself as a social (i.e. human) being--a return become conscious, and accomplished within the entire wealth of of previous development. This communism, as fully developed naturalism, equals humanism, and as fully-developed humanism equals naturalism; it is the genuine resolution of the conflict between man and nature and between man and man ..." (Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844)

Afghan, please take note of Marx's understanding of human beings as natural beings. Indeed, life is communist. Life consists of self-organizing material systems and is rooted in the cell. The astonishingly diverse entities contained within a cell or ecosystem all find their individual self-realizations within the overarching common system/purpose they form.

That's how it would be in communism: "an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all."

This is also a description of the organization of a herd. A herd is a highly intelligent, bottom-up organization in which each of its members is able to maintain its being and the species flourishes. A herd is a communist association.

Nature is "communist," and Marx saw people as natural beings who must learn to live naturally--communistically.

My red-green best.

[Afghan]

I once again thank you all for your patience and time.

So ... communism is achieved when there is no government , no money and no class system. I didn't know this. ALL work according to their ability, and ALL receive according to their needs. Wealth of EVERYONE is equally shared by EVERYONE.

Right?

But isn't this the end result, which has never been achieved anywhere on earth? When Mao tried this (Great Leap Forward), didn't it fail?

May I ask , how "communist" is China now? Is electricity in China free? Can people have their own individual companies?

Would there be free food , drinks , clothes when a communist state is achieved?

I'm sorry if that's a stupid question , but hey , I need to make sure! LOL



Retailing will always be necessary, it will just be radically different in communist societies.
Could you please explain? If I have a vegetable-corner-shop in a communist society, how would that work? If there is no money, what will I receive in return of the good? Or will there be free-supermarkets where anyone can come and take in "accordance to their needs"?


Indeed, life is communist.
So how is it then that communism failed in almost every part of the world , as the capitalists argue? In your opinion, what was the main reason behind Stalin, Lenin and Mao's inability to implement communism?


Organised religeon that has in its purpose to be in a reactionary role would be outlawed.
What do you mean by "organised religion"? Is that different than a normal religion?

[Afghan]

And also :

What happens if a person does NOT work according to his/her full ability?

If a person is lazy for example? Will he get punished? Because even in a capitalistic society, where people get paid, they don't work according to their full ability, what makes you think they will do it in a communist society?

Thanks.

[Mr. Natural]

Afghan, communism has failed because it has not been organized according to the natural laws by which matter (people are matter) self-organizes into life. Life has an organization--a "communist" organization. Are we not life?

The new sciences--evolution, the new physics, cosmology, cybernetics, chaos theory and, especially, systems-complexity theory--work with the organization, patterns, and processes of life and the universe. The new sciences, therefore, show how to bring communism to life.

I would never recognize Stalin as a communist. He was an impossibly murderous godfather. The revolutionary, guerrilla-stage Mao became a tyrant upon taking power. I tend to like Lenin. His was an almost impossible situation, but I experience him as a dedicated Marxist and a deep thinker.

[runequester]

So how is it then that communism failed in almost every part of the world , as the capitalists argue? In your opinion, what was the main reason behind Stalin, Lenin and Mao's inability to implement communism?


It helps to look at the conditions that exist in each country.

America and England for example have not been subject to wars fought on their own soil in the 20th century, had access to world wide economic imperialism allowing consumer goods to be sold at artificially low prices because they can exploit third world workers and so forth.

Russia came out of a gruelling civil war leaving the country in ruins, build up an industrial base and modernized the country, was invaded, AGAIN reduced to ruins, and rebuilt itself AGAIN.

China came from very similar conditions. Vietnam, the story repeats itself.

The question to ask is: How could a place as supposedly backwater as Russia guarantee every citizen a job and a living place, when the richest country in the world fails to do so ?

[RedZero]

What you are thinking of is called 'redistribution of wealth.' And yes, many communists think that this is a necessary idea. Please note that this is only possibly before and during the actual transition to communism, because once communism is established, there will be no such thing as 'individual wealth' as we know it today.


No. This is a misconception. Under communism there will be no wage, and so there can be no 'equal pay' in the sense that we understand it today.


Okay, maybe I overlooked something or maybe I'm missing something blatantly obvious...but: after the transition is made into communism (redistribution of wealth), and since under communism there is no wage, what would the money be used for after the redistribution? Is there any point, need, or use in having money in a communist society? What's the point in redistributing it if people will no longer receive wages? In my mind, with people no longer receiving wages, I also assume that people would no longer need money.

Maybe someone can clear this up for me. I'm new to all of these terms, ideas, etc...so I'm trying to learn and understand. Go easy on me. :p

[Afghan]

The question to ask is: How could a place as supposedly backwater as Russia guarantee every citizen a job and a living place, when the richest country in the world fails to do so ?
I've heard that even in the furthest outskirts of Russia such as Siberia , there was free electricity available .

Is this true?

I want to know how the retail-market would look like in a typical communist state. If there is no money , how will the food distribution be carried out? Will food/drinks/clothes in the supermarkets be free of charge?

[Allende]

True communism can only exist when the entire world is communist, correct?

I think what afghan is asking, what happens in the mean time. Before the whole world is taken over? Surely the spread of communism would take time. Individual or groups of countries/ societies would beat capitalism with the goal of implementing communism, such as in the early days of Russia.

What happens to wages etc when this situation arises? What should happen to wages and economics during this time of transition?

It is a good point-if communism means no wealth, no money. Why does Marx speak about the redistribution of wealth?


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.483972,-3.196971

[Thirsty Crow]

Okay, maybe I overlooked something or maybe I'm missing something blatantly obvious...but: after the transition is made into communism (redistribution of wealth), and since under communism there is no wage, what would the money be used for after the redistribution? Is there any point, need, or use in having money in a communist society?
No, global communism abolishes the material conditions which necessitate the existence of money since people will produce for direct social appropriation (production for use, and not for sale). However, social planning, something which doesn't presupose the existence of a monolithic state institution, will have to be able to account for costs of prudction - in necessary labour time and the availability of voluntary labour, availiability of resources and their consumption (think: sustainable energy policies), possible negative effects (such as the effects of pollution on populations living near plants), but none of that necessarily entails the esistence of money.

[ZeroNowhere]

So how is it then that communism failed in almost every part of the world , as the capitalists argue?What 'failed'? Most revolutions after the Russian ones were supported by and attempting to emulate the Soviet Union, so I'm not sure why it should be considered their 'failure' if they ended up emulating the Soviet Union.

Unless this is a joke about Russia being large.


True communism can only exist when the entire world is communist, correct? I think that we could have communism decently enough even if Vatican City declined to participate.


It is a good point-if communism means no wealth, no money. Why does Marx speak about the redistribution of wealth?I don't recall him using that phrase, and it's rather vague in any case. In modern political discourse, it's generally used to refer to reformism and the rearrangement of wealth so as to create a 'nicer capitalism', quite apart from the fact that capitalism is ultimately reliant upon the rate of profit.

[Desperado]

1- Because your comments are contradictory , I assume the diffinition of "communism" changes depending on the person you ask. There is not a written text , titled : "THIS is communism". It's not written in stone. Every person has his/her own difinition of "communism" , it seems.

Would you agree?

Most communists agree on what communism is abstractly. The disagreement is where communism has been demonstrated in reality, if at all.


2- Some of you said: communism is "stateless society" well, then who does the policing? Who runs the judicial system?Most communists believe that the primary function of the current capitalist state is not to dispense justice, but the opposite - to defend and perpetrate oppression. Some communists - anarchists - believe this can be applied to all states (often because of they believe that all states are capitalist).

Anarchists believe that justice could be dispensed by the community - policing (if required) likewise. But the main point nearly all communists will put forward is that nearly all crimes stem from our class society - the systemic alienation, poverty and lack of community, and that by abolishing class there will be far less of a need for policing. There are also some things which many communists do not think should crimes in the first place.



Is a herd able to guide itself?Communists believe so - through organising on democratic methods and through free associations. But to what degree we need to be "led" to achieve this is a big matter of disagreement.

Marxists generally believe in some sort of political party (though claimed to be democratic in some sense or other) to guide the people to the goal. Anarchists believe that it is only with the exact principles of mass-democracy and non-hierarchical methods we can achieve a society based on these principles.

There's plenty of endless debate on what democracy or whatever else means here. Communism being an economic organisation first and foremost, the main tenet is that the worker's control the means of production (the workplaces), rather than a few private owners. How this is done is a big question. What you must bear in mind is that most of our ideas of "democracy" are entirely different to the apparent democracy in today's world - unless you are some kind of reformist (e.g a Eurocommunist) that is.


How come not a single country on earth is like this in the 21st century?Because so far we (as in the working class as a whole) have failed in making it happen. That something hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't happen, or that we shouldn't work to make it happen.



3- Some said the "wage system would no longer exist", but this is when the utopia is achieved - how about the process before we get there?

If I earn (let's say) $100 a day and another person earns $1 a day. Would my money be taken away from me and given to the other person - as to make our earnings equal?Again, a matter of big disagreement. For most anarchists, we have to get there almost immediately, through distributing according to need as governed by the community - although for collectivists there is still the usage of money at first. Mutualists see the usage of money as continuing (though perhaps not as a wage system), though most communists will say that mutualists are not communists. Lenninists (a variety of Marxism) believe that, at different times, the Soviet Union was on the road to communism - but it persisted in the use of money, and didn't equalise wages as you hypothesise (although they were slightly more equal at times). Marx himself advocated some form of labour vouchers to replace money on the way to communism.