Revolution in the United States?

[RedZero]

I'll start off by saying that I'm young and still learning (good excuse, right?), so forgive me for any ignorance or misunderstanding that I might show in my posts.

With the Occupy Wall Street protests going on, I realize that it's far from a "revolution," but at least it's raising political awareness and consciousness...or at least I think it is. Despite the fact that corporate media is, of course, what most people are watching; at least more people are being made aware, right? I know that this movement says that they are nonviolent, and I know that some anarchists (?) have caused damage (yesterday, Oakland Strike, for example).

I guess what I'm trying to get at is this: do you think that an uprising will happen here (hundreds of thousands, millions of people)? Honestly, I'm not sure if it would/should be violent or not (what do you think?). I'm very interested in what might happen in my lifetime.

Apparently, elections are a joke. The politicians are all bought out by corporations and their lobbyists. With that in mind, a "change" would most likely need to be radical, wouldn't it? With the middle class fading away and more people going into poverty or with more people being underemployed (and most likely miserable), shouldn't people be, well, pissed off? I hate that there is so much apathy in this country. People would much rather watch Dancing With The Stars than to read a book or discuss ideas with people.

I'm sorry if my post is jumbled and incoherent --it probably is-- but I hope you're able to give me some type of input. Honestly, I just want to learn. I want to be educated. I love history and current events, but I'm having a hard time with where to start (in regard to what I should read, what events I need to learn about and focus on, etc).

Thanks for reading.

edit: what do you, as an individual, believe should be done? If you don't care, share your ideologies. I'm interested in reading ideas that people have.

[Revolution starts with U]

If you personally join one, its one step closer. :lol:

[Blake's Baby]

The whole question is fraught with ifs and buts, really. It very much depends on what you see 'revolution' as being. I'm not sure how you see things, so me saying 'yes I think there will be revolution in the United States and it will be violent' might lead you to all sorts of conclusions about what I believe that might not be correct.

So... 'yes I think (1) there will be revolution (2) in the United States and (3) it will be violent'.

I'll try to explain that as best I can, starting with (3). It will be violent because the ruling class will not allow it to be non-violent. If the working class could overthrow capitalism without violence I'd be very happy indeed - if for example the SPGB/WSM were right about the possibility of a relatively peaceful transition to socialism, but I don't think they are right; and I think had a peaceful transition been possible at any point in the past we would already be living in a communist society, because one of the most effective weapons against revolution is the threat of the carnage that capitalism coud unleash. Really, if they think that they might lose power, some of the representatives of the ruling class will be prepared to destroy everything to prevent us from winning, and that should be a sobering thought for anyone caught up in a romanticised notion of what will be involved. They already use violence and repression against us on a massive scale, and in the worldwide civil war that is the revolution this will only get worse. But this is also why revolution is necessary - the countless deaths that happen because capitalism exists are a global holocaust that is already happening. So more violence (the revolution) that will end violence (capitalism) actually seems a better bet for humanity in the long run.

As for (2), the United States are not a world unto themselves. The revolution in the US will be a part of the working class's world revolution. Capitalism is an international system and the workers are an international class, a class with no country. The revolution must be against capitalism worldwide as communism cannot be established until capitalism has been defeated. The revolution is not over until capitalism has bveen defeated everywhere, not in the US or in any other single country - there is no 'US Revolution', 'Congolese Revolution', 'Belgian Revolution', 'Thai Revolution', 'Surinamese Revolution' and 'Tadjik Revolution', there is the revolution of the proletariat that takes place in the US, Congo, Belgium, Thailand, Tadjikistan and everywhere else. The demonstrations and strikes, debates and actions that the working class is taking now, in the US, Spain, Greece, Egypt, India and everywhere else all feed into each other.They are part of the same process of the international working class testing its strength as more and more people come to realise that capitalism offers no future but slavery and war.

What is a revolution? It's not a bunch of guerrillas hiding in the woods ambushing army trucks, before 'liberating' the capital from the backs of jeeps. It is the working class organising itself to take production in its own hands and organising society for the benefit of all not an exploitative minority. A Jim Morrison said, 'they've got the guns but we've got the numbers'. The revolution is the process by which the working class siezes control of the means of production and capitalism is abolished. The ruling class will use military means to stop the revolution but the proletariat cannot hope to defeat the capitalists in a military war. Not that there won't be military actions - there will - but that is not where the strength of the working class is. It's not a game of Risk where equal red and white armies face each other and seek to conquer territory. If the working class doesn't already have a strongly combative consciousness, if there aren't signs of the class struggle breaking out in many places, any 'revolution' in a local area will be premature. If the working class cannot make strides to paralyse the system and start to use it for our own ends, the 'revolution' is doomed.

On which happy note...

Hope some of that makes some things clearer anyway.

[Comrade Marcel]

No, not unless you mean a fascist revolution:

http://llco.org/on-the-occupy-movements

http://anti-imperialism.com/2011/10/06/looking-at-u-s-poverty-from-a-revolutionary-internationalist-perspective/#more-1762

http://anti-imperialism.com/2011/10/19/newsflash-amerikans-are-the-top-13-percent/

http://anti-imperialism.com/2011/11/04/a-note-on-occupied-wall-street/

[La Comédie Noire]

Well when an empire decays either really progressive things happen or really reactionary things happen. I'd leaning towards the ladder for the United States. My guess is either a right wing populist regime will come to power, or a military dictatorship will hold things together.

[Fawkes]

With the Occupy Wall Street protests going on, I realize that it's far from a "revolution," but at least it's raising political awareness and consciousness...or at least I think it is. Despite the fact that corporate media is, of course, what most people are watching; at least more people are being made aware, right?
Yes, and it's a crucial first step.



I guess what I'm trying to get at is this: do you think that an uprising will happen here (hundreds of thousands, millions of people)?
Yes. This year? No. Ten years? Possibly, but not likely. But eventually, definitely. These are only the very first steps. A revolution is a long process, the day the barricades go up is the culmination of years of agitation and organization.


Honestly, I'm not sure if it would/should be violent or not (what do you think?).
It will without question be violent. The state puts enormous resources into military and police forces for a reason: to defend itself, i.e. capitalism.


shouldn't people be, well, pissed off?
We are. It's just a question of directing that anger into actions that are productive.




Try reading Kropotkin's The Conquest of Bread, it's surprisingly accessible for a book of its period and subject matter. The Anarchist FAQ (http://infoshop.org/page/AnAnarchistFAQ) is also a great place to learn about anarchism. Emma Goldman's also a great writer to check out. Try reading The Communist Manifesto, even as an anarchist I've found a lot of Marx's theories to be useful. Also, if you're into history, the Spanish Revolution and the early 20th century labor movement both in the U.S. and internationally are great subjects with loads of information available online.

Welcome to the forum :)

[NewLeft]

No, not unless you mean a fascist revolution:

http://llco.org/on-the-occupy-movements

http://anti-imperialism.com/2011/10/06/looking-at-u-s-poverty-from-a-revolutionary-internationalist-perspective/#more-1762

http://anti-imperialism.com/2011/10/19/newsflash-amerikans-are-the-top-13-percent/

http://anti-imperialism.com/2011/11/04/a-note-on-occupied-wall-street/

:rolleyes: Communist bickering.. I guess being in the heart of the beast means nothing anymore.

[Comrade Funk]

No, not unless you mean a fascist revolution:

Fascist revolution isn't happening anytime soon.

[Comrade_Stalin]

Fascist revolution isn't happening anytime soon.

I don't know the Tea Party want one. To them, if you can read you are a liberal elitist, and you are a communist if you can also write.

Hell on some level they wish for a Starship troopers world and we all now that it is fascist.

[RedZero]

Thanks for the recommendations and replies, everyone. Has anyone here read The Coming Insurrection? I had the .pdf of it on my computer at one point, but I deleted it a while back before I ever read it. If you have read it, is it worth reading? Should I download it again? and if you think it is worth reading, could you put it in context for me?