Explaining basic anarchist communism to my family

[Quail]

My family don't know anything about communism really (other than "it doesn't work") and I always find it really difficult to explain anything because the conversation goes off in tangents. There seem to be so many things to explain, but I never know where to start, so I think I end up talking in a confusing way where I jump from concept to concept without explaining each point fully before moving onto the next.

I get arguments such as, "Would you want someone who had no qualifications to earn the same wage as you, with your maths degree?" and, "But the owner of the business provides jobs for the workers" which to me indicate that I'm failing at explaining myself.

How would you concisely explain the basic ideas of communism?

[Medvyet]

Explaining these ideologies to your family is always difficult, especially if your family does not understand them at all.
I'd say the most important thing is to stick to your guns. Don't be intimidated by anything they say. If they say anything negative, calmly explain to them that the communism you believe in isn't the same "communism" they're familiar with. Give them a basic definition of anarcho-communism in your own words, and be very gentle. Don't use big words or you might confuse them. Think up quick and simple answers to the questions they ask beforehand. I would recommend the "High School Commie's Guide" thread, which is full of simple answers to common questions.
Believe in yourself, and remember your family will love you even if you're not a bourgeois-loving money-grubbing cappie.:)
Good luck! I know it's hard!

[Revolutionair]

Leftists believe that society is ruled by those who own the means of production. The current class of people that owns the MOP is the capitalist class. Leftists don't digg subordination.

As an anarcho-communist you think that the way to end class society, is by gift economy, direct democracy, unions/syndicalism, etc...


Now as for your questions:


Would you want someone who had no qualifications to earn the same wage as you, with your maths degree?

We are at a point in humanity where wages have become obsolete. We still use them because of cultural and class reasons. There is no need for wages because we are able to produce more than we can consume. Maintaining the price system only causes speculation which stifles our production capacity.


But the owner of the business provides jobs for the workers

Yes this is completely true, it is an emperical fact, but it's not much of an argument though. There have always been people who provided work for others, such as slave owners who provided plenty of things to do for their slaves. Today it's still the same, only now we speak of wage-slavery instead of slavery. The feudal landlords gave work to the peasants, yet most of us are very positive about the France Revolution and the American revolution against the British king.

[Tim Cornelis]

When I explain communism and anarchism in one sentence I usually say it's the equal distribution of political and economic power amongst all people. No one has the right to have power over the life of another person. It's really simple, and I've noticed that many find this explanation appealing.

[Revolutionair]

Don't use big words or you might confuse them.

To expand on this: don't talk like a fucking Hoxhaist. Try to use words like working-class instead of proletariat. If there is a situation in which proletariat is the best word you can use, explain what you mean by it first. For instance:
Which class is the most revolutionary class?
Well as a Marxist, I think the proletariat class is the most revolutionary class. They have the most to win and the least to lose. The proletariat is the people who have to sell their capacity to work in order to survive.


Think up quick and simple answers to the questions they ask beforehand.

If you're not sure about things, just say so. If you're not sure about how to answer a question you do know, take your time. There's no shame in thinking before talking!

[Quail]

When I explain communism and anarchism in one sentence I usually say it's the equal distribution of political and economic power amongst all people. No one has the right to have power over the life of another person. It's really simple, and I've noticed that many find this explanation appealing.
That sounds like a nice way to put it.

It's not that I don't have arguments to back up my beliefs, it just seems as though I'm not very good at articulating them. It's as though the person I'm talking to and I are having two different conversations sometimes. I can't manage to get them to look at things outside the confines of capitalism, if that makes sense.

[Comrade Gwydion]

If you don't have a rapid answer for every hypothetical scenario, they'll call you naïve, dumb and dogmatic for 'sticking to an ideology even though you don't know all the answers'.

If you DO have a rapid answer for every hypothetical scenario, they'll call you dumb and dogmatic because you 'claim to have all the answers' :(

[Tim Cornelis]

That sounds like a nice way to put it.

It's not that I don't have arguments to back up my beliefs, it just seems as though I'm not very good at articulating them. It's as though the person I'm talking to and I are having two different conversations sometimes. I can't manage to get them to look at things outside the confines of capitalism, if that makes sense.

That is indeed very problematic, people who have never looked into anarchism/socialism/communism just don't seem to get our perspective. I have the same problem when talking to family or other people, but you need to use simple and clear logic, and use their point of view as argument.

For example, most (except classical liberals) consider democracy a good thing. So: democracy is better than dictatorship, so why should we accept internal dictatorship of businesses?

Maybe they reply "because no one is forcing you" (point out no one is forcing people to stay in China, yet it's still an unjustifiable dictatorship) or "because capitalists create wealth and jobs" to demonstrate that it's the workers who do all the work simply use an example like this:

"Ok, you say that entrepreneurs create jobs and they work hard therefore they deserve the profits, but how much money would Heineken have made if he had hired no employees? Exactly, he would have made zero dollars, because no bottles would have been produced, and no beer brewed! It's the workers who earn the money, apart from a small initial investment by the entrepreneur, and therefore it is the workers who create jobs and pay their own wages as well as the income of their boss, not vice versa"

[Revolution starts with U]

Capitalists facilitate the job process. They don't "create" jobs. Jobs are created by demand for goods and services; these will always exist, as long as humans do.

Nothing explicitly says under socialism all wages will be equal. Socialism advocates for worker control of the MoP, the ending of the concept of "ownership," and the worldwide class consciousness of the working class. It is more than just likely that the workers will renumerate the experts and skilled labor more than themselves. But they will chosen to do so; as opposed to being subject to the domination of the ruling class.
Communism on the other hand renders the idea of unequal reward obsolete. Post-scarcity means free access to goods and the MoP.

Here's the important part; don't ever call yourself a socialist, if you are desiring to actually get anyone to learn anything. 99% of people (that's a made up number) hear "socialism" and just shut-down. They won't even listen to you, as you brought up our cultural boogeyman, and you've basicaly, to them, outed yourself as a murderer. Some lady the other day was talking about how much she liked Herman Cain, and I said "I'm a pretty far leftist, there are no candidates for us. I wish Obama was a socialist, then he might have been effective." She looked at me like I was about to stab her, and left. Don't use the words socialism/communism/far left.

The idea is to appeal to their own interests; explain how their boss dominates and exploits them. Explain how the interests of the Big Business will always reign over the government; no amount of welfare can fix this, and in fact welfare is not what socialism is all about. Convey the idea, and their are plenty of historical examples, of militant labor struggle being the only way workers as a whole gain anything from the expansion of capitalism.
The idea is that they are already socialists, they just don't know it. When they say "politicians are screwing the middle class" explain to them that the middle class is the working class, as well as the lower classes, and some parts of the upper class. The working class is the 99%, so to say. We're not here to defend the unemployed (tho we probably will, knowing that capitalism directly creates that situation, on purpose), but the worker, the creator of everything we know and love.

I'm not sure directly engaging them for proselitization (is that the right word? like converting them/preaching) is the right path tho. It hasn't converted many for me. What has converted people has been just casual conversation, and seeing that I live by the principles I hold. THAT is appealing to people. Saying you believe in personal responsiblity (in the sense of letting people be who they are, without rule. Not in the sense of conservative "you're on your own."), social development, and democratic decision making is all well and good. But if you live by it, and let others too, I have found it to be far more effective. People want to know what works.

And don't get all angry and angtzy like a nervous teenager. Don't rage. Only the people already sympathetic to the ending of capitalism want to see this. Most people just want to live their lives, under whatever system they find themselves in. The last thing they want to see is someone claiming to set up a new system, and talking about all the people he/she's going to bring violence upon.

Hope that helps. Don't get discouraged in so-called failure. Without try, there is no do.

[Nox]

To be honest, I don't bother explaining it.

The only way you can really learn the ins and outs of communism is by being genuinely interested in it.

I've never, ever seen a non-communist who knows anything about communism.

[Ocean Seal]

Do it in a nice formal presentation type of way. Not in a debate/discussion type of way. Be nice, but make sure to tell them that they can ask questions at the end.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

To be honest, I don't bother explaining it.

The only way you can really learn the ins and outs of communism is by being genuinely interested in it.

I've never, ever seen a non-communist who knows anything about communism.
I've found that many non-communists who I talk with just flat-out ignore my explanations for what communism is and stick to their flawed ideas about China, the USSR, and North Korea being perfect examples of a "communist" society. I keep having to go back and tell them "No, that's not what I'm talking about" and then they keep on not listening. Then they'll throw in a question about "how do you honestly support mass-murderers like Joseph Stalin?" ... at that point I die a little inside. Conversation with some dude at a bar a few weeks ago, but it's happened multiple times.

A few people I've opened up to the idea of it by explaining what it is first, then dropping the "commie" bomb later. One even said he's supportive of the idea of socialism after we had a decent political conversation at a local bar, he just wouldn't call himself a socialist in today's world.

[Quail]

The only catch with trying not to label my views explicitly as communist is that my family already know that I'm an anarchist communist. Today I used the phrase "libertarian communist" so as not to use the word anarchist (=crazy violent terrorist who wants chaos). It's kind of difficult to explain your beliefs when people already have preconceptions of what they are though.

[Nuvem]

I find that the most effective and efficient way to explain anarcho-communism is with one simple image.


http://www.notonthewires.com/Resources/Images/dumpster6.jpg

[Susurrus]

"From each according to their ability, to each according to their means. Freedom from oppression and exploitation."

[Agent Equality]

I've found that many non-communists who I talk with just flat-out ignore my explanations for what communism is and stick to their flawed ideas about China, the USSR, and North Korea being perfect examples of a "communist" society. I keep having to go back and tell them "No, that's not what I'm talking about" and then they keep on not listening.


Sounds like pretty much everyone in OI. :rolleyes:


I find that the most effective and efficient way to explain anarcho-communism is with one simple image.


http://www.notonthewires.com/Resources/Images/dumpster6.jpg

Is this supposed to be funny or something?

[NewLeft]

It's a doctrinal myth that people have to be driven to work by reward. It's
rather odd that the myth is promulgated in research universities, where
everyone knows that people work super-hard because they love what they are
doing: creative and valuable work under their own control. That was well
understood during the Enlightenment and by the founders of classical
liberalism. There have been massive efforts to drum this understanding out
of people's heads, but I think a little introspection usually suffices to
send it on its way.


Wage slavery and single purpose jobs would not exist..

And there is no reason why we can't democratically create jobs..