Is communism really that good?

[Adrian]

Something that always have confused me, what is so good with communism?

Communism have never seemed to work to me...

So can someone please brief me in what makes communism so much better than capitalism..

[atlanticche]

communism is nirvana

[redstar2000]

Like Rolex©, there are a lot of fake "communisms" out there.

But once you've tried the real thing, you'll love it!

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[Loknar]

[SIZE=1][SIZE=1][SIZE=1]If communism is executed properly (strict adherence to the manifesto) it would be great. If you want an example look at startrek.


Like it or not Communism is the next logical step for humanity. If everyone can shed their own selfish desires it could work. But that may take a few generations. As we evolve however it becomes apparent that Communism is the next logical step. I as a capitalist know this (I am a capitalist because everyone in this world it out for them selves, I don’t see why I should go out of my way for anyone unless I think they deserve it). Read the first example of the manifesto and it will become clear to you.

I would like to say though that while I know communism is a good thing I personally don’t see it working anytime soon because humanity has not advanced enough. Communists, take my advise, let socialism take a firm grasp then slowly reform the country, if you push it on people it will end in disaster.

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 02:24 PM

Communism have never seemed to work to me...


Communism as Marx envisioned it has never existed.

[marxstudent]

I feel the same way, Adrian. The attempts to establish real communism have all failed... Will it ever be established?

[Karelmarx]

Communism is not only possible, but probable. It makes the most sense as the next step in human socio-economic existance. On the most part people agree on the worn out cliche: "Communism sounds perfect, but it wouldn't work in practice." This is a logical falicy. Just because it has never worked before doesn't mean it won't ever work. Second of all, humanity exists in a state of warfare against itself. It has been this way for the bulk of recorded history. Marx correctly saw history as a struggle of class against class. There is no reason to assume that the present is any different in that regard. Communism would ideally erase the class bounderies that pit one human against his fellow. Now, I am not a religious man. I have no belief in a god, nor in an absence of one. Quite frankly I don't feel that it makes a smidge of difference over the lives of humans on a day to day basis. I do hold one tenet very close to my heart, so much that it is a matter of undieing faith. I believe that humanity is not stupid. If humanity is not stupid, then someday- after much sweat and persevierance is put into the furthering of social, cultural, economic, and political conciousness- it will realize that it is living in this war zone. Once this realization is collectively achieved, the solution (i.e. Communism) will be actively sought on all fronts of human existance. Communisim is not only probable, but inevitable.

[Tiki Man]

I somewhat agree with Loknar, but don't see why we should add to the fire of capitalism. I suppose I am just sitting on the sidelines right now. I have often been stepped on and taken advantage of, and I let it happen for some reason. I strongly agree with Karelmarx, and I also think that the only way to get something efficiently done is numbers. Hopefully more people will wake up in the next generations.

Warning, I typed this up for some reason, it may not be completely relevant:
I have a phrase planted in my head. "For the common good". It helps a lot. The more people that realize that phrase then the better the world may be. But I think religion often can interrupt that, and so can being oblivious. Religion gives people a lifelong goal of getting into heaven instead of improving their environment. To add to this, in my mind, are times of prayer when something much more efficient could be done. Sundays could be a more productive day. Resting well is productive, because it enables you to wake up earlier and more refreshed, correct? Weekends are often for good rest, not halfly occupied by worship to an invisible figure. And then there are oblivious people. Oblivious people can often be selfish. And then there are kind people. Kind people can take the strain off of you, but put more strain on themselves. Let me put my idea into numbers, where work is good.

For the common good: Three people gain 2 work each, one person loses 4 work. +2 productivity
Oblivious: Four people lose 1 work each. -4 productivity.
Overly Kind: One person gains 2 work each, one person loses 3 work. -1 productivity

It can be compared to holding a door open. Oblivious people open the door for themselves. Overly kind people hold the door open for a person or two. Common good people open the door for everyone, until the people stop coming. They may stand there for a minute, but the rest of the people collectively save more than that person's minute.

[kc-bones]

I personally dont think communism could exist due to the simple fact that some people are naturally greedy. Thats why leaders such as Stalin, Mao and others have ruled under a dictatorship. Trying to obtain a utopian society is impossible, people will always be hostile, greedy, and want to be independent free of imposed decions put upon them. Now I'm no way right wing at all, I lean towards socialism and wish that more socialistic aspects of government were used in the U.S. I would like to see free health care, an end to the 2 party system, an end to the imperialistic ways of the U.S. and far most importantly an end to Bush and all other ignorant right wingers like him.

[FistFullOfSteel]

some people say that..why should we have same wages..if im a doctor and ur a farmer and i have worked more than u..and we shall have same wages...thats not working they say...

[S.B.]

Greetings comrades


I have come to this site time and again under various aliases,as Karo Chavez,Kehoe,Krobanikov,etc ... now I have chosen to reappear with the initials of my name as a forum ID.

When the stage curtains fall a thousand actors die in the shell of a single man,I am reminded of how Lenin,Trotksy and Stalin chose their own names.

Likewise,in the movie,"Lawrence of Arabia" when the Arab portraited by Omar Sharif asks Lawrence why he did not go by his fathers name Lawrence replied,"Because he didnt marry my mother" to this Sharifs character says,"Then you are free to choose your own name" and so it was that the real Lawrence did indeed change his name prior to his death.

I also was born out of wedlock(as the old-folks once use to say)hence I am free to choose my own name were I to wish this.

The essential thing in these matters which we probe by scholarly investigation is to give emphasis to an ideology rather than seeking to promote the person,Comrade Lenin himself was set against this idea of personality cults,although Stalin,as with Herr Hitler,was to make cultism his chief objective.

Communism as espoused by Marx and Engels as being a stateless society can never be,to think otherwise is utter lunacy,in reality communism is nothing more than anarchy and as a noted writer once commented,"There shall always be need of the state,power simply transferring from one set of elites to another" -(paraphrased).

I have stated time and again that I am a socialist,moreover,I am a Bolshevik of the old order wherein revolution and socialist reforms are introduced and carried out in one country alone,all other nations would then follow suit by their own initiative rather than it being forced upon them by established socialist nations.

As for the integration of socialist policies,there are many various speculations concerning the proper manner in which these would be made effective within society,either by a slow process of gradual progression or else suddenly by an act of state decrees wherein suppression and hardships would surely result.

I have witnessed much praise of Stalins 5-year plan,as I also have personally given much consideration of the NEP policies of Comrades Lenin and Bukharin.

It is uncontestable that for a nation to withstand ecomonic collapse in the process of establishing socialism it must continue to recognize the validity of a market economy and act accordingly until all means of national self-sufficiency are put into order.

This has been the cause of much debate throughout the existence of prior socialist states,the need for alliances with nations foreign by socio-political ideologies to that of socialist states.

There exists by natural forces a need to be dependent upon others for resources which ones own geo-political land-boundaries cannot provide and for this cause either one must make friends with neighboring nations or else make war,and by far war has generally been the case.

As for all this nonsense of former communist states,this is a misnomer in that communism and the state cannot co-exist side by side,all that has went before us have been socialist states,and sadly these have been largely used as a means of tyranny and deprivation.


S.B.

[apathy maybe]

Do you care about the environment? About your fellow humans? About anything good at all?
If you do then don't support capitalism. Capitalists, destroy the environment, kill other humans, and are generally selfish gits who don't care about anything but themselves.
Communism aims to remove the selfishness, and conseqently the damage to the environment etc.

[atlanticche]

to create communism there would have to be unfortunately a lot of bloodshed
even Stalin had ideas to create communism in Russia, which pretty much was kill all those different from average Russians or himself

[Totalitarian]

Karelmarx:

Marx correctly saw history as a struggle of class against class.

Too simplistic. It was also a struggle of race against race, nation against nation, tribe against tribe, religion against religion etc.

[atlanticche]

the struggle of race Vs race has to be addressed in socialism, as it never really has been before, only when there is no rascism can people be truley equal

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 8 2003, 10:46 AM
Do you care about the environment? About your fellow humans? About anything good at all?
If you do then don't support capitalism. Capitalists, destroy the environment, kill other humans, and are generally selfish gits who don't care about anything but themselves.
Communism aims to remove the selfishness, and conseqently the damage to the environment etc.
breif... but this is the crux of the good about communism~ ! well said. ;)

[Soviet power supreme]

I personally dont think communism could exist due to the simple fact that some people are naturally greedy.

This old clichee doesn't seem to vanish.

People can't be greedy if everybody has the same.

I mean who want another washing machine if he already has a one.

[Sabocat]

Loknar:


Like it or not Communism is the next logical step for humanity.


And with this statement, I have a whole new respect for you. :)

[kc-bones]

Originally posted by Soviet power [email protected] 8 2003, 01:48 PM

I personally dont think communism could exist due to the simple fact that some people are naturally greedy.

This old clichee doesn't seem to vanish.

People can't be greedy if everybody has the same.

I mean who want another washing machine if he already has a one.
I know everybody would have the same, but what I'm saying is that not every person WILL want the same as the next person. Do you think every single person will want everything equal, of course not.

[Soviet power supreme]

I know everybody would have the same, but what I'm saying is that not every person WILL want the same as the next person.

Well i was talking about when we would be living in a communist society.
You are talking about time before that.


Do you think every single person will want everything equal, of course not.

It doesn't matter.

Majority would want that and your greedy bastards could only whine about it.

[Tiki Man]

In the future hopefully more people will wake up and stop being greedy. The people that have already stopped being greedy are those communists/socialists we are now. As long as this forum is around, it will only grow.

The future is the easiest tense to change.

[Loknar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2003, 09:46 AM
Likewise,in the movie,"Lawrence of Arabia" when the Arab portraited by Omar Sharif asks Lawrence why he did not go by his fathers name Lawrence replied,"Because he didnt marry my mother" to this Sharifs character says,"Then you are free to choose your own name" and so it was that the real Lawrence did indeed change his name prior to his death.

I also was born out of wedlock(as the old-folks once use to say)hence I am free to choose my own name were I to wish this.

I actually had the same exact thought when I was watching the movie. I too was born out of wedlock.

[Rasta Sapian]

the word on da street is that socialism is sweet, utopia comrads what more should i say :)

[Karelmarx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2003, 11:23 AM
Too simplistic. It was also a struggle of race against race, nation against nation, tribe against tribe, religion against religion etc.
Where did the enimity between races, nations, tribes, and religions come from? From class devisions.

[atlanticche]

people become greedy as they become addicted if theyre to busy or addicted to something else we wouldn't have such problems

[sledovatel]

in answer to your question, no, communism is not really that good. in order for communism to work, all opposing thought would have to be crushed. many people would be either murdered or imprisoned to put down dissent. locknar was incorrect in saying that it is the next logical step. only when people decide to relinquish their personal rights and freedoms does it become the next step. communism is not freedom. within communism one becomes a slave to the masses and to public opinion. all for the "common good." as for the economic side to communism, the entire market as a whole would become stagnant. incentive would be taken, and as a result, production would dramatically decline in both quality and efficiancy. thus, instead of the capitalist way of doing things through rewards, the communist approach would of necessity become a system of punishments to force the people to excelerate production.
luckily, just like fascism, communism has been soundly defeated and only remains in small fragments of delusionalists.
-s

[atlanticche]

to create communism we would need more space to seperate, to stop people thinking that they are/or should be better than another person, giving them enougth area to inflict expression, but not on peope

[Totalitarian]

Karelmarx:

Where did the enimity between races, nations, tribes, and religions come from? From class devisions.

The emnity comes from ignorance. Coupled with the desire to expand available territory and resources for [insert group here].

[Karelmarx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2003, 03:05 AM
The emnity comes from ignorance. Coupled with the desire to expand available territory and resources for [insert group here].
Good point about the ignorance, but the desire to expand etc. is a fine example of class struggle. When two tribes go to war it is because one tribe has something the other doesn't, thus putting them in different "classes" of sorts.

[Desert Fox]

Communism is the cure for countries that are poor and have lots of social unrest. It would wipe out the bad regimes and create a stabel fundament for a new society. But to compete with the western countries they should accuire a few capitalist marks to create fangs to fight the capitalists in their own game ...

[marxstudent]

I personally dont think communism could exist due to the simple fact that some people are naturally greedy. Thats why leaders such as Stalin, Mao and others have ruled under a dictatorship. Trying to obtain a utopian society is impossible, people will always be hostile, greedy, and want to be independent free of imposed decions put upon them. Now I'm no way right wing at all, I lean towards socialism and wish that more socialistic aspects of government were used in the U.S. I would like to see free health care, an end to the 2 party system, an end to the imperialistic ways of the U.S. and far most importantly an end to Bush and all other ignorant right wingers like him.

Very good points and I overall agree.

I understand true communism would be great but the problem is will it ever happen?

[Iepilei]

Always with this notion of communism being "too idealistic" as humanity is by "nature" too greedy to make it work.

Such a farce, I say. A poorly thought out argument.

Am I a greedy person? I can say that I live in accordance to what makes myself content. I play guitar, I listen to music, I eat certain types of foods. These things in life I use for the betterment of the quality of my life. Does this make me greedy?

In my opinion, no. No it does not.

Capitalism is not the advocation of the betterment of life for the individual, yet the advocation of the accumulation of wealth, of capital - a modern social power. Do these people really need as much as they collect for the betterment of their life? Do people really need to buy 5,000 dollar shoes and live in 30million dollar estates? How far, is too far?

Once a acceptable level of living has been reached, the accumulation of wealth provides nothing more than a means of social power. It's the worlds modern bartering chip to gain sway in politics, life, society, anything you could imagine. Status. It's a form of control.

I believe a single man cannot be trusted with absolute power. I believe anyone who collects power will ultimately try to gain more. And more. And more... just as the capitalists work to always expand... expand... expand... more more more.

So in a act of self-interest, I move the notion that all power be removed. All power needs to be checked, and regulated. As long as people keep their head on the ground, they realise they are apart of a larger whole - a part of society and they recognize the true things which bring them happiness... friends, family, life, culture. Sure there will always be desire for a few luxuries, and those will be as anticipated in socialist society as they are in capitalist society. They will act for the betterment of life, not the accumulation of wealth nor the establishment of a structure which in turn exploits workers for their labour.

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2003, 05:31 AM

I personally dont think communism could exist due to the simple fact that some people are naturally greedy. Thats why leaders such as Stalin, Mao and others have ruled under a dictatorship. Trying to obtain a utopian society is impossible, people will always be hostile, greedy, and want to be independent free of imposed decions put upon them. Now I'm no way right wing at all, I lean towards socialism and wish that more socialistic aspects of government were used in the U.S. I would like to see free health care, an end to the 2 party system, an end to the imperialistic ways of the U.S. and far most importantly an end to Bush and all other ignorant right wingers like him.

Very good points and I overall agree.

I understand true communism would be great but the problem is will it ever happen?
It is not possible to get anything pure in this world. Since hummanity is too corrupt to creat a pure system. That is just a fantasy. I personally don't have any comments about the way Stalin nor Mao ruled. They did alot for their country and they used communism quit good as ruling form ;)

[Le Libérer]

Its like M. Manson said in the documentary "Bowling for Columbine" The Media is responsible for spreading fear. We listen to how many bombs were dropped on Iraq and terrorist attacks. During commercial breaks they force feed us to buy the newest automobile, mouth wash and acne cream. We are all brainwashed with Fear and Consumption. Take away the fear, there is no reason to horde BMWs, designer clothes or washing machines!

[Rasta Sapian]

communism is an old word with a misconseived perception. Therefore, I believe that Progressive Socialism would be a positive word to be used in its place. For the future, and for change. With humanity of the world evolving towords the ideal of a POSITIVE ALTERNATIVE to our present capitalist regime in which most of us live.

Peace in the Middle East

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by Tiki [email protected] 8 2003, 08:32 PM
In the future hopefully more people will wake up and stop being greedy. The people that have already stopped being greedy are those communists/socialists we are now. As long as this forum is around, it will only grow.

The future is the easiest tense to change.
Like it or not, but most people are greedy. Some of us do see the truth but the general amount are being kept dum by the bourgeois (prime evil). And they give them goods to keep them blind for the truth that $$$ is not everything but it can be handy and that last is really what is wrong ;)

[Dhul Fiqar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2003, 08:46 AM

Like it or not Communism is the next logical step for humanity. If everyone can shed their own selfish desires it could work. But that may take a few generations. As we evolve however it becomes apparent that Communism is the next logical step.
If you truly believe that - now - then the entire existance of this website has been validated.

--- G.

[Iepilei]

the notion of the "greedy" human has only been around since the Lousiana purchase and the expansion of the US past the Mississippi. the discovery of vast amounts of land broke the traditional, "you know your place" mindset of feudal times. class lines were easy to maintain back in those days. anyone who had land, kept land, and anyone born to the aristocracy remained there - even if they were essentially bankrupt. there was no class mobility, and people were content with that. a farmer realised his position in life.

only after the US began to take more lands did the notion of, "changing" class mobility even grace the minds of Americans. i believe it was the French traveller Alexis de Tocqueville who once spoke upon the, "vast greed of the new American society."