This Forum

[ВАЛТЕР]

Seems to me this forum causes more division between the left than it does unity. Often I read threads of back and forth bickering and shit talking between tendencies and whatnot.

I mean debate is healthy, but here too much time seems to be spent debating on views. In the sense that there seems to be a huge division between all these different fractions, even though their goals are the same.

I think this makes the left sort of ineffective in today's world and I believe this sort of in fighting will sooner counter the revolution we all seem to want so much than bring it about.

That is all...

[Agent Equality]

Well contrary to what they might say, we do not all want the same thing. If we did then those that advocate such methods would not advocate them seeing as how they have done more harm to the people than good in the past. People can't learn how to trust other people because of their own faults, insecurities, etc. They have to do everything themselves. i.e. telling people what to do, leading them because they view other people as incompetent, etc.

They use such excuses as they're being realists, the proletariat aren't ready, sometimes they even use that they only want to quicken universal emancipation of mankind.They come up with loads of fancily worded bullshit essays and incites as to why it can and will work this time and write off all the other countless times, even though all evidence points to the fact that it should not be repeated. They look at the history and are fascinated by it, but do not learn from it. They study it in depth but never gain anything insightful from it.After a whole century, they still don't get the fucking clue. No good sir, we do not all want the same thing. *hint hint*

[Manic Impressive]

It isn't this forum which causes divisions, the divisions already exist. This isn't really a new phenomenon socialists have always argued amongst themselves. Sometimes much more viciously than we do on here.

[tir1944]

Maybe we should all follow Bernstein's maxim "The final goal is nothing to me,the movement is everything".:D

[X5N]

Well, Stalinists and anarcho-communists probably have about as much in common as American conservatives and European social democrats. So...

[o well this is ok I guess]

This is really the only place we have the luxury of flaunting our sectarianism.

[Apoi_Viitor]

Its those damn trots I tell you

[Commissar Rykov]

If you just adopted Glorious Juche we would have no need to fight. Dear Leader will fight filthy yankee pigdog imperialists with bare hands!

[X5N]

If you just adopted Glorious Juche we would have no need to fight. Dear Leader will fight filthy yankee pigdog imperialists with bare hands!

North RevLeft is Best RevLeft.

[Magón]

Well that's what happens when people get onto the subjects of Black Bloc and Unionization.

[pax et aequalitas]

It is because this is a discussion site on which the the revolutionary left discuss among themselves. If we'd all agree this site would serve no purpose in the first place.

[Nox]

Seems to me this forum causes more division between the left than it does unity. Often I read threads of back and forth bickering and shit talking between tendencies and whatnot.

I mean debate is healthy, but here too much time seems to be spent debating on views. In the sense that there seems to be a huge division between all these different fractions, even though their goals are the same.

I think this makes the left sort of ineffective in today's world and I believe this sort of in fighting will sooner counter the revolution we all seem to want so much than bring it about.

That is all...

It's because of all those bloody titoists/stalinists/trots

[Hivemind]

Everyone knows that it's the trots causing trouble. This place is like religion. Marxist-leninst-stalinist-hoxhaism is obviously the only logical belief. Everybody else is just misguided. And people with non-leftist beliefs are censored. This entire forum is like a religion with many sects just bickering back and forth while trying to restrict those who are not part of the overall religion. I find it quite amusing that an analogy about religion perfectly describes a revolutionary leftist forum, whose members are godless in the majority. :laugh:

[Commissar Rykov]

Everyone knows that it's the trots causing trouble. This place is like religion. Marxist-leninst-stalinist-hoxhaism is obviously the only logical belief. Everybody else is just misguided. And people with non-leftist beliefs are censored. This entire forum is like a religion with many sects just bickering back and forth while trying to restrict those who are not part of the overall religion. I find it quite amusing that an analogy about religion perfectly describes a revolutionary leftist forum, whose members are godless in the majority. :laugh:
My Revolutionary Messiah is better than your Revolutionary Messiah!

[Aloysius]

Kronstadt.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Marx v. Bakunin. go!

[danyboy27]

episodes of sectarianism come and go from time to time. Personally i blame the weather.

[ComradeOm]

Seems to me this forum causes more division between the left than it does unityThis is an internet forum we're talking about. It 'causes' nothing more than headaches for a few keyboard warriors. RevLeft is not a reflection of the real world and has approx. zero impact on it

And this is a good thing. Very few actual socialists will, when not protected by the anonymity of the internet, advocate mass murder or slave labour

[Azraella]

You know, if I can accept a certain parable when it comes to religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Men_and_the_Elephant) perhaps that same parable can be of use here. Sectarianism is "natural" and conflict is inevitable, at the end of the day all I can do is suggest where my ancestors got it right.

Því verðr engi uppreist yðar ungra manna, at yðr vex allt í augu.

Translation: "The reason you young men don't get anywhere is that everything seems like such a big deal to you."

[OHumanista]

The problem (like the others said) that we indeed have too many differences. Not in the goals which coincide in 90% of tendencies. But on the means to get there.
And everybody is all so sure that his means are the only viable one and that all others are the arguments of "evil powerhungry authoritarian pseudo-leftists" or from "disorganised and stupid anarchists" (not mention other ohhh so "brilliant" generalisations)

And of course there are the trolls, you can be as tolerant and understanding as you want and there is still that guy(or a bunch of them) mauling you for defending your views in face of serious offences and accusations. Even if you never said anything about their tendencies and reply with both education and information.

Frankly I think we need more humour, and also drop the EXTREMELY annoying and stupid generalisations we make of each other. (most of them are based on misconceptions and prejudices)

Hell I even tolerate most ML fundamentalists and whiny libertarians :D (just kidding people, please don't beat me)

[Hivemind]

Frankly I think we need more humour, and also drop the EXTREMELY annoying and stupid generalisations we make of each other. (most of them are based on misconceptions and prejudices)

I notice that your tendency is set to Trotskyist, therefore your opinion is invalid. :lol:

[DeBon]

Seems to me this forum causes more division between the left than it does unity. Often I read threads of back and forth bickering and shit talking between tendencies and whatnot.

I mean debate is healthy, but here too much time seems to be spent debating on views. In the sense that there seems to be a huge division between all these different fractions, even though their goals are the same.

I think this makes the left sort of ineffective in today's world and I believe this sort of in fighting will sooner counter the revolution we all seem to want so much than bring it about.

That is all...

One of these days you'll understand why it's important to argue about dead leaders of failed states and how having certain opinions on them will effect forward progress, you're just young.

I couldn't agree with you more. This site feels like on online RPG sometimes.

[Die Rote Fahne]

In this thread; people complain about how some people are sectarian asshats... by being sectarian asshats.

[DeBon]

In this thread; people complain about how some people are sectarian asshats... by being sectarian asshats.

And what does that say about you?

[Die Rote Fahne]

And what does that say about you?
I don't know, what does it say about me?

[the Leftâ„¢]

Kronstadt.



:crying:

[Bright Banana Beard]

Mental masturbation is quite often seen here.

[Agent Equality]

I don't know, what does it say about me?

Perhaps you are, like the rest of us, a sectarian asshat? :)

[Die Rote Fahne]

Perhaps you are, like the rest of us, a sectarian asshat? :)

Yeah I hates me dem Trots and Stalinist scuuuuuuuuiuummmmmm.

Not really...not a fan of Stalinists though.

[Commissar Rykov]

Yeah I hates me dem Trots and Stalinist scuuuuuuuuiuummmmmm.

Not really...not a fan of Stalinists though.
Embrace your hatred and use it to strike the Stalinist down.

[socialistjustin]

Yeah this sectarian shit sucks. You got the Stalinist people who think Stalin was a God and can't be at fault for anything that happened under his regime. Then you got the Trots who think that it's still the 30's and they couldn't be more annoying. The Maoists are weird. Fucking Leninists and their vanguard shit.

Luckily for everybody, the anarchists are pretty cool. ;)

[Die Rote Fahne]

yeah this sectarian shit sucks. You got the stalinist people who think stalin was a god and can't be at fault for anything that happened under his regime. Then you got the trots who think that it's still the 30's and they couldn't be more annoying. The maoists are weird. Fucking leninists and their vanguard shit.

Luckily for everybody, the anarchists are pretty cool. ;)

what about meeeeeeee? :b

[thefinalmarch]

...but 'sectarianism' implies Stalinists and their ideological offspring are part of the same "movement" as communists.

[ColonelCossack]

Kronstadt.


http://27.media.tumblr.com/avatar_6feb8634e3d0_128.png

[Aurora]

Sectarianism is putting the group before the class, it has nothing to do with having principled disagreements with other communists.

The idea of everyone getting along is disgraceful and it's logical conclusion is compromise and collaboration, i'd rather fight my corner and be wrong than be trapped by left fucking unity.

[socialistjustin]

what about meeeeeeee? :b

Luxemburgists are irrelevant so I totally forgot to put you lot in there.

[Nox]

Luxemburgists are irrelevant so I totally forgot to put you lot in there.

+1

[Die Rote Fahne]

Luxemburgists are irrelevant so I totally forgot to put you lot in there.

Har har har

[Commissar Rykov]

Har har har
Come dry your tears into the bosom of Comrade Stalin. Stalin brings presents for all good little comrades.

[Die Rote Fahne]

Come dry your tears into the bosom of Comrade Stalin. Stalin brings presents for all good little comrades.

Glorious leader Comrade Stalin will comfort me, I must purge my body and mind of counter revolutionary scum!

[xub3rn00dlex]

Glorious leader Comrade Stalin will comfort me, I must purge my body and mind of counter revolutionary scum!
http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/10/11056/11321849.jpg

[Os Cangaceiros]

ComradeOm pretty much hit the nail on the head. Here's a very simple equation to explain why revleft is the way it is:

the diverse amount of opinions within what's known as "the left" + the anonymity of the internet = why revleft is the way it is

Hardly unique to revleft. Political discussion by their very nature are divisive and often heated. I'm sure there are conservative forums, right? Go on those and you'll probably witness neocons furiously bashing libertarians, and the only time they stop hating each other is when they're ridiculing social conservatives/anti-abortion activists.

[Pioneers_Violin]

Hardly unique to revleft. Political discussion by their very nature are divisive and often heated. I'm sure there are conservative forums, right? Go on those and you'll probably witness neocons furiously bashing libertarians, and the only time they stop hating each other is when they're ridiculing social conservatives/anti-abortion activists.

Actually, they're worse!

I know a couple of these guys.

"Conservatives" around here would rather stay at home and let the "Liberal" win in an election if their candidate doesn't align perfectly with each and every one of their beliefs. Especially certain "hot button" beliefs.

Hilariously, some even think that allowing that damn Liberal Commie candidate to win ON PURPOSE will strengthen their position at the next election! :lol: These are the ones expecting a Republican Landslide in 2012. :lol:

I think this is why "Conservative" candidates are so mealy-mouthed. Just one wrong word can cause most of their voters to stay home or vote for a certain-to-lose 3rd party. :laugh:


A sincere Thank You to all of my RevLeft Comrades that attack my position mercilessly, for you strengthen me in the process.