Vietnam still Communist?

[Bostana]

Is Vietnam still Communist or were they ever Communist?

[Tablo]

They were never communist.

[Commissar Rykov]

Vietnam was a National Liberation Movement while it made overtures of Socialism I don't think it was ever seriously meant.

[Kitty_Paine]

Wait, isn't Vietnam a one party state with that one party being the "Communist Party of Vietnam"?

And their country's name is officially the "Socialist Republic of Vietnam" with a socialist republic government which is essential a communist state, right?

I don't know a lot about it, but I thought I'd just bring it up though and ask.

[Obs]

Wait, isn't Vietnam a one party state with that one party being the "Communist Party of Vietnam"?

And their country's name is officially the "Socialist Republic of Vietnam" with a socialist republic government which is essential a communist state, right?

I don't know a lot about it, bit I thought I'd just bring it up though and ask.
The structure of government and the name of the country have nothing to do with whether or not it's socialism. Socialism is decided by ownership of the means of production, which in Vietnam is definitely not in the hands of the working class.

[Bostana]

Wait, isn't Vietnam a one party state with that one party being the "Communist Party of Vietnam"?

And their country's name is officially the "Socialist Republic of Vietnam" with a socialist republic government which is essential a communist state, right

Wow that is kinda similar to North Korea and guess what? they are not a Communist nation. Think about it claims are easier than actions.

[Kitty_Paine]

The structure of government and the name of the country have nothing to do with whether or not it's socialism. Socialism is decided by ownership of the means of production, which in Vietnam is definitely not in the hands of the working class.

Well, yes I definitely agree, absolutely.

I was also questioning whether or not he was asking had Vietnam ever been Communist in a strictly "title" sort of way, whether or not that was true being up for debate. As in "that country's Communist (Communist party controlled)" but when you get down to it, they really aren't.

So I was more or less focusing on "outside" appearances I guess... lol But thank for letting me know they really aren't.

[Rafiq]

Socialism is decided by ownership of the means of production

Not necessarily, Socialism is also defined as the complete abscence of capital as well. A society run bt workers cooperatives only can still be capitalist.

[Obs]

Not necessarily, Socialism is also defined as the complete abscence of capital as well. A society run bt workers cooperatives only can still be capitalist.
Absolutely true, I was a bit vague in my definition.

[Kitty_Paine]

Wow that is kinda similar to North Korea and guess what? they are not a Communist nation. Think about it claims are easier than actions.

I know, I was more talking about "outward" appearances... I didn't know if you were talking "title-wise" or "are they REALLY communist"... No need to get all sarcastic and smart with me.

[Bostana]

I know, I was more talking about "outward" appearances... I didn't know if you were talking "title-wise" or "are they REALLY communist"... No need to get all sarcastic and smart with me.
My apologies. Communist as in Cuban Communist You know like true Communist.

[Crux]

About as communist as china.

[Rafiq]

Absolutely true, I was a bit vague in my definition.

Yes, but your overall post was valid - that Vietnam runs the capitalist mode of production.

[Misanthrope]

Never has, never will be. Unless the whole world was classless and stateless and instead of Earth it was called Vietnam.

[promethean]

Is Vietnam still Communist or were they ever Communist?
Vietnam has been ruled by the Communist Party of Vietnam ever since the end of the Vietnam war and the re-unification of North and South Vietnam. This party took power in the North following an anti-colonial struggle against the French empire in the First Indo-China War. During and prior to the Vietnam War, through the activities of the Viet Cong in the south, the communists were able to successfully wage a guerilla war against the forces of American imperialism and were able to unite North and South after the withdrawal of enemy forces.

Vietnam has been ruled by this "communist" party since 1976. This stalinist party has a notorious record for suppressing workers since 1945. See: A ‘Moscow Trial’ in Ho Chi Minh’s Guerilla Movement - Ngo Van Xuyet. (http://libcom.org/library/%E2%80%98moscow-trial%E2%80%99-ho-chi-minh%E2%80%99s-guerilla-movement)

Following the proclamation of independence, much of the industry was put under state ownership and the economy administered by Five-year plans. However, since 1986, following the policy of Doi Moi, the economy has been slowly transformed into a market economy and free enterprise has been allowed.

Basically, putting the economy under state ownership has nothing to do with socialism, neither does having a market-based economy. So, Vietnam is not and has never been socialist, though it has been ruled by a "communist" party for the past four decades.

[thefinalmarch]

They were communist as fuck.

"...the Party cannot put forth too high a demand (national independence, parliament, etc.)... It should only claim for democratic rights...." - Ho Chi Minh, The Party's Line in the Period of the Democratic Front. 1939.

"In order to complete the Party's task....a national union conceived without distinction of class and parties is an indispensable factor.... [The communists] are always disposed to put the interests of the country above that of classes, and to give up the interests of the the Party to serve those of the Vietnamese people." - Central Committee of the Indochina Communist Party. 1945.

http://a31.idata.over-blog.com/2/84/53/29/lecler10.jpg

Ho Chi Minh with French General Leclerc de Hauteclocque toasting the accord reintroducing French troops to north Viet Nam. 1945.

"We are convinced that the Allies, which at the Teheran and San Francisco Conferences upheld the principle of equality among the nations, cannot fail to recognize the right of the Vietnamese people to independence." - Ho Chi Minh. 1945.

"The rights of property and possession of Vietnamese citizens are guaranteed." - Constitution of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam. 1946.

"....this [south Viet Nam] regime must be overthrown and a government of a national and democratic union put in its place composed of representative of all social classes....Support the national bourgeoisie...." - Program of the National Liberation Front of South Viet Nam. 1960.

:rolleyes:

[eyeheartlenin]

About as communist as china.

That's a very good answer, I think. About six years ago, I was at a demonstration with a group of US Grantists, and I met someone from India, who said he was working for the UN in Hanoi, and he indicated that the Vietnamese leadership was restoring capitalism, and, as a socialist himself, he was quite indignant about that.

Trotsky was right, I believe, when he held that in the absence of a workers' political revolution against the Stalinist leadership of a workers' state, there will be a capitalist restoration, a process that can be seen, obviously in the former USSR, in China, in Vietnam (according to my interlocutor), and in Cuba, from what I have read. (As it happens, the FT-CI http://ft-ci.org has published a bunch of articles in Spanish on the situation in Cuba under Raúl).

[ZeroNowhere]

Wait, isn't Vietnam a one party state with that one party being the "Communist Party of Vietnam"?

And their country's name is officially the "Socialist Republic of Vietnam" with a socialist republic government which is essential a communist state, right?
About as much as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democratic people's republic, or the tit-mouse is-

Never mind.