MRAs - "Men's right activists"

[Black_Rose]

I wanted to start a thread about them since there was a thread in which the author questions whether women are oppressed. As for myself, I am white woman with is blessed with a "good" figure as I have a low waist to hip ratio although I am short (5'1") and lack ample breasts. There are a few times when I had unmarried sexual intercourse, but I can hardly be described as prurient "slut" since I am not promiscuous. Most importantly, I come from an upper-middle class background, so I am not stigmatized with
cruel stereotypes. I only say this because I find it necessary that I must apologize in advance since I am not completely empathetic with other women came from disadvantaged backgrounds and do not completely comprehend their situation.

Yes, the MRA are a rather fulsome, anti-feminist reactionary movement, and they our indeed our enemies. MRAs is not an all-encompassing belief system, and MRAs possess a diverse set of right-wing political beliefs as MRAs are often free market advocates, anti-communists, "third positionists", and/or "race realists" (who not only believe that Blacks and Hispanics are intellectual inferior, but broadcast and obsess about it) too. While most MRAs are religious, some are secular.

The MRA agenda should not be considered benign and moderate: they do not merely want to circumscribe women to childbearing and housework; they yen for a socially repressive, phallocracy, and the prohibition of abortion. Many MRAs are so regressive that they want to remove women's suffrage (and often voting rights in general to property owners). Also, the primary paradigm of MRAs is to postulate that the etiology of any deleterious social and economic phenomenon with associated with feminism and single-motherhood while, coincidentally, most societal maladies in Western countries is associated with the zeitgeist of neoliberalism, which is itself has its provenance in the values of bourgeois culture. Bourgeois culture, imperialism, and neoliberalism are rarely critiqued in the MRA movement; but sometimes, consumerism is discussed in a negative light, since it focuses their criticism towards the masses and emphasize personal responsibility (and propagates judgmental stereotypes), instead of the social order and the distribution of wealth.

I used to be under the delusion that I can deflect right-wing populist anger into more "productive" avenues, such as redirecting their rage towards the upper class, if they were given the appropriate information and evincing the hypocrisy of the upper class to them, but these people are conditioned to ignore such information, genuflect to the ruling bourgeois class, and harbor contempt towards the unfortunate. The MRA movement is merely one example of this reactionary tendency.

----
Share any insight or anecdotal encounters with this group.

[Nox]

unmarried sexual intercourse.

Marriage is just a stupid-ass product of religion

Fuck marriage

[Jimmie Higgins]

they do not merely want to circumscribe women to childbearing and sundry houseworkMerely? That's enough right there to condemn them as advocates of slavery.

[carlk]

I wanted to start a thread about them since there was a thread in which the author questions whether women are oppressed. As for myself, I am white woman with is blessed with a "good" figure as I have a low waist to hip ratio although I am short (5'1") and lack ample breasts. There are a few times when I had unmarried sexual intercourse, but I can hardly be described as prurient "slut" since I am not promiscuous. Most importantly, I come from an upper-middle class background, so I am not stigmatized with
cruel stereotypes. I only say this because I find it necessary that I must apologize in advance since I am not completely empathetic with other women came from disadvantaged backgrounds and do not completely comprehend their situation.

Yes, the MRA are a rather fulsome, anti-feminist reactionary movement, and they our indeed our enemies. MRAs is not an all-encompassing belief system, and MRAs possess a diverse set of right-wing political beliefs as MRAs are often free market advocates, anti-communists, "third positionists", and/or "race realists" (who not only believe that Blacks and Hispanics are intellectual inferior, but broadcast and obsess about it) too. While most MRAs are religious, some are secular.

The MRA agenda should not be considered benign and moderate: they do not merely want to circumscribe women to childbearing and housework; they yen for a socially repressive, phallocracy, and the prohibition of abortion. Many MRAs are so regressive that they want to remove women's suffrage (and often voting rights in general to property owners). Also, the primary paradigm of MRAs is to postulate that the etiology of any deleterious social and economic phenomenon with associated with feminism and single-motherhood while, coincidentally, most societal maladies in Western countries is associated with the zeitgeist of neoliberalism, which is itself has its provenance in the values of bourgeois culture. Bourgeois culture, imperialism, and neoliberalism are rarely critiqued in the MRA movement; but sometimes, consumerism is discussed in a negative light, since it focuses their criticism towards the masses and emphasize personal responsibility (and propagates judgmental stereotypes), instead of the social order and the distribution of wealth.

I used to be under the delusion that I can deflect right-wing populist anger into more "productive" avenues, such as redirecting their rage towards the upper class, if they were given the appropriate information and evincing the hypocrisy of the upper class to them, but these people are conditioned to ignore such information, genuflect to the ruling bourgeois class, and harbor contempt towards the unfortunate. The MRA movement is merely one example of this reactionary tendency.

----
Share any insight or anecdotal encounters with this group.
Your describing the anti-feminist wing of the mens rights movement, which is in no way representative of the entire movement. Mos mens right activists focus on areas like child custody where women have an unfair advantage over men.

[Azraella]

MRAs is not an all-encompassing belief system, and MRAs possess a diverse set of right-wing political beliefs as MRAs are often free market advocates, anti-communists, "third positionists", and/or "race realists"


Yes and no. MRAs are usually right-libertarians... or at least they proclaim to be. the problem with a lot of these groups is that there is also a lot of overlap with fascists, conservatives, and other forms of rightist political forms... there are some liberals(and I believe that I have talked to a socialist MRA before) but it is overwhelmingly right wing. Even accepting that there are legitimate men's rights issues... most of it is marred with misogynistic and misandric rhetoric.

Don't think that the left is innocent either, bigotry transcends ideology, religion or non-religion, and all of it is stupid.
That said:



There are a few times when I had unmarried sexual intercourse, but I can hardly be described as prurient "slut" since I am not promiscuous.


This is something I wouldn't worrry about. I might be married and I might have my own issues with casual sex, but I don't think it's cool to judge people for that.

[Commissar Rykov]

Marriage is just a stupid-ass product of religion

Fuck marriage
Marriage has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with property rights and the accumulation of property. Religion only got tacked on recently in order to lend "sanctity" to making women subservient and giving men complete control of family property.

[RedAnarchist]

Your describing the anti-feminist wing of the mens rights movement, which is in no way representative of the entire movement. Mos mens right activists focus on areas like child custody where women have an unfair advantage over men.

So, you are a MRA then, Einstein/Whatabouttehmenz/enoon?

As I have no doubt that you will read this, do not make another sockpuppet. We can ban them very quickly, and you will only be wasting your own time.

[Hexen]

Marriage has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with property rights and the accumulation of property. Religion only got tacked on recently in order to lend "sanctity" to making women subservient and giving men complete control of family property.

To better explain it, Marriage is actually about putting a fence around women analogous to copyright/intellectual property putting a fence around ideas, patents putting a fence around innovation, and finally private property puts a fence around land. Marriage is nothing more than a another manfestation of property which is the basis of Capitalism where only the few control the means of production and no else does hence it's theft from everyone else.

[kurr]

They are reactionaries

[Conscript]

To better explain it, Marriage is actually about putting a fence around women analogous to copyright/intellectual property putting a fence around ideas, patents putting a fence around innovation, and finally private property puts a fence around land. Marriage is nothing more than a another manfestation of property which is the basis of Capitalism where only the few control the means of production and no else does hence it's theft from everyone else.

Marriage is theft! :laugh:

[Azraella]

Marriage is theft! :laugh:


That's one way to put.

I very much love my husband though. >.>

[Black_Rose]

Yes and no. MRAs are usually right-libertarians... or at least they proclaim to be. the problem with a lot of these groups is that there is also a lot of overlap with fascists, conservatives, and other forms of rightist political forms... there are some liberals(and I believe that I have talked to a socialist MRA before) but it is overwhelmingly right wing. Even accepting that there are legitimate men's rights issues... most of it is marred with misogynistic and misandric rhetoric.It seems that most of them are traditionalists, with some explicitly advocating a patriarchal monarchy, instead of right-libertarians although these two groups are not mutually exclusive. I know that most of them are recalcitrant anti-communists, since they find the fall of the Soviet Union and the satellite states something to celebrate. Nevertheless, the seem to have one thing in common with the revolutionary left: they despise liberalism.

As I stated before, an anti-feminist focuses prevents accurate inquiry into the origin of various social and economic maladies since "feminism" eclipses neoliberalism and imperialism.


(and I believe that I have talked to a socialist MRA before) Are you sure that person is an actual socialist, as in advocating the dismantlement of the institutions of bourgeois political power and the removal of bourgeois cultural influence?




This is something I wouldn't worrry about. I might be married and I might have my own issues with casual sex, but I don't think it's cool to judge people for that. It wasn't my intent to be judgmental; I was stating my own tendencies as I am introverted, autistic person which leads to fewer opportunities to become intimate.



Merely? That's enough right there to condemn them as advocates of slavery. I wouldn't say that being a housewife is tantamount to slavery; personally, I would be content doing humdrum household chores and cooking for a virtuous socialist man and our children while using some of my free time reading history or scientific literature, as it is compatible with my introverted disposition. This life should not be prescribed to all women, but it seems that many women would deem that to be a satisfactory and fulfilling life. Hell, even the Maoists during the 1950s idealized this view of the nuclear family. Yes, I agree that being coerced into that role by a culture that embraces rigid genders roles unnecessarily curtails freedom.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/1950s_%E6%AF%9B%E4%B8%BB%E5%B8%AD%E7%BB%99%E6%88%9 1%E4%BB%AC%E7%9A%84%E5%B9%B8%E7%A6%8F%E7%94%9F%E6% B4%BB.jpg


What makes me dyspeptic is not their position on housewives, but their idyllic nostalgia of the late 19th century with the absence of a rudimentary welfare state, any income tax, and women's suffrage (and presumably, they like Victorian workhouses).

[Nicolai]

That's one way to put.

I very much love my husband though. >.>

As long as he loves you for who you are, and you as a human being then I don't see it as negative ~. o

However, marriage is just a way to show that you've found your soulmate (or used to anyway) and want to spend the rest of your life with that individual.

Personally though, I feel that marriage is something the state don't have to approve of, and when you ask for engagement it's already offical. You don't need papers to tell how much you love a person.

--My two øre X3

[Azraella]

Are you sure that person is an actual socialist, as in advocating the dismantlement of the institutions of bourgeois political power and the removal of bourgeois cultural influence?


Not entirely, it's been a year or two, but I think he claimed to be a democratic socialist with borderline libertarian socialist views. Though I was an opiate head so I might be misremembering stuff.




I was stating my own tendencies as I am introverted, autistic person which leads to fewer opportunities to become intimate.



Ah, my excuse reason is that I'm a demisexual. I try to understand the need for casual sex but in reality? I just don't. I think this is a misunderstanding on my part. (as a shrink I tend to read too much into people)


You don't need papers to tell how much you love a person.


Damn skippy. :thumbup1:

(I think marriage should not require the state too)

[Ocean Seal]

As for anecdotal evidence, I don't think that I've ever met any thankfully.

[tfb]

Not entirely, it's been a year or two, but I think he claimed to be a democratic socialist with borderline libertarian socialist views.

So what you're saying is that you met a Redditor...

[Nox]

Marriage has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with property rights and the accumulation of property. Religion only got tacked on recently in order to lend "sanctity" to making women subservient and giving men complete control of family property.

It still originated from religion though...

It's just another way that religion has made the world worse

[Commissar Rykov]

It still originated from religion though...

It's just another way that religion has made the world worse
No it really didn't. It started as a way to manage property and to easily shift it around. Marriage arose from the fact that society shifted from Hunter and Gatherers to more Agrarian Societies where women could be used as bartering chips to acquire land or other materials. Thus the extension into marriage in Greek and Roman societies where women were literally property of their husbands.

[jake williams]

As I stated before, an anti-feminist focuses prevents accurate inquiry into the origin of various social and economic maladies since "feminism" eclipses neoliberalism and imperialism.
You could make analogous claims about the rad fems, but that's a whole other story.


Are you sure that person is an actual socialist, as in advocating the dismantlement of the institutions of bourgeois political power and the removal of bourgeois cultural influence?
I think what folks are failing to do is distinguish, on a really broad continuum, actual basically-hopeless fascists on the one hand, and the vast majority of men who hold vaguely anti-feminist beliefs in various forms. In some cases, the latter are protesting caricatures of feminism which don't actually exist. But sometimes they're also angry because lots of feminisms are shitty, with bad gender politics or bad class politics or both. There's also the dynamic that goes on where the ordinary shitty feelings that develop trying to have intimate heterosexual relationships in a dysfunctional society are given the opportunity to develop into political misogyny.

These things are really variable and complicated. While I do think some of the more organized and articulate political misogynists do just need to be fought and crushed, I think most men believe a lot of stupid, shitty things because they honestly never seriously talk about sex and gender politics and develop a lot of psychoses about it.

[Hexen]

It seems that most of them are
I wouldn't say that being a housewife is tantamount to slavery; personally, I would be content doing humdrum household chores and cooking for a virtuous socialist man and our children while using some of my free time reading history or scientific literature, as it is compatible with my introverted disposition. This life should not be prescribed to all women, but it seems that many women would deem that to be a satisfactory and fulfilling life. Hell, even the Maoists during the 1950s idealized this view of the nuclear family. Yes, I agree that being coerced into that role by a culture that embraces rigid genders roles unnecessarily curtails freedom.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/1950s_%E6%AF%9B%E4%B8%BB%E5%B8%AD%E7%BB%99%E6%88%9 1%E4%BB%AC%E7%9A%84%E5%B9%B8%E7%A6%8F%E7%94%9F%E6% B4%BB.jpg


What makes me dyspeptic is not their position on housewives, but their idyllic nostalgia of the late 19th century with the absence of a rudimentary welfare state, any income tax, and women's suffrage (and presumably, they like Victorian workhouses).

House Wives look like a man's personal maid to me hence it's exactly analogous to slavery or another form of it.

Also note to self, any ideology stemmed from Leninism (Stalinism, Trotskyism, Maoism) aren't exactly what Marx originally intended either. The Nuclear Family is something that should not exist in a real post-revolutionary society as one example.

[Azraella]

So what you're saying is that you met a Redditor...

I use reddit >.>



It still originated from religion though...

It's just another way that religion has made the world worse

People make the world worse.

Something a wise friend once told me:

I have tried all my life to leave the place better than I found it. But there are 6 billion other people out there messing it up. I am outnumbered. But...YOU don't just make a difference, you make THE difference.

Seems kind relevant for this site too. :D

[PhoenixAsh]

Outgrowths like the MRA, which I am sure differs from country to country in their role and position, are a very good indication why there needs to be a platform which adresses all traditional genderrole expressions for both men and women and challenges their codification in the legal system as well as the perpetuation of the patriarchy.