We're a culture, not a costume (Halloween costume campaign)

[NewLeft]

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2011/10/26/li-halloween-stars-620.jpg

What do you think? The group STARS from the university of Ohio is trying to get people to not dress up in offensive stereotypical costumes.. Like a sheihk with bombs attached on the waist.. Etc.

It's also a meme: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/were-a-culture-not-a-costume

[tir1944]

Does this mean people shouldn't dress like,i don't know,chavs or rednecks either?

[NewLeft]

Does this mean people shouldn't dress like,i don't know,chavs or rednecks either?

Haha, you can't dress up like the KKK either..

I don't see anything wrong with the geisha to be honest..

[ZeroNowhere]

One or two of the parody images are actually pretty good.

[PhoenixAsh]

hmm....getting offended by people dressing up in a cultural costume which you do not wear and taking it personal....interesting.

Either that or they are trying to stereotype an entire culture into some egocentrical personification....which is also interesting




edit:
To make myself clear: Some things are just plain silly. Some things are a little or a lot bad taste. Like Prince *whatshisface* dressing up as an SA guy. Or like the black guy in a three piece who held the chains of a white guy in rags....I saw them somewhere yesterday. (though I must admit...the last one was FUKCING hillarious). I have seen black people dress up and paint themselves white. I have seen the reverse. I have seen muslims wearing Arabic outfit...with or without bombs. I have seen a few Marokkan kids yesterday with panties over their face waving around toy guns...obviously mocking the social discrimination of stereotypes. ANd I have seen white people do the same. I have seen asian guys wear Geisha outfits....hell I dressed up like one myself once....and I have seen guys wear sexy nurse outfits. So I do NOT get the offense taken by a holiday costume which is meant to be a mockery of reality in the first place.

So what? We are advocating now that some attire may ONLY be worn in the culturally appropriate setting by the culturally and ethnically approved persons?

[Rafiq]

Yet another irrelevant campaign started by bored college Liberals.

I mean, really?

[khlib]

http://www.autostraddle.com/im-a-culture-not-a-costume-campaign-stars-halloween-2011-118271/


s a disconnect here where people don’t realize that the perpetuation of racial caricatures like “the geisha” in Halloween costumes means perpetuating an assumption about people of a certain race — that an Asian woman (“the geisha”) is quiet, demure, sexually available, subservient and naïve. You’re not dressing up as an Americanized, somewhat derogatory, not at all historically accurate version of high-class Asian prostitute in a vacuum. You’re presenting a culturally derogatory image of a woman, and this notion of the “geisha” is mapped on to every Asian / American woman.

um, no.

[tir1944]

Shows how absurd PolCor can get...

[Kitty_Paine]

It's in times like these that I like to quote a favorite movie/book of mine -

"You are not special. Your are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.”


Basically people need to stop taking themselves so seriously. You're a person and if you died, guess what?! Life goes on for everyone else, nothing changes... Oh I'm sorry! Did I offend you by wearing a costume?! Well let me take this off; then let me modify everything I do to make sure I don't offend anybody... especially you. Because you're so damn important.

It's fucking Halloween! It's about having fun and wearing stereotypical costumes...

[ColonelCossack]

Preposterous.

Da fok?

[kitsune]

I think some people like to find new ways to take offense because being offended makes them feel morally superior.

[Искра]

In Croatian in February we have some kind of events when we put on masks. So when I was a kid one year I was a Care Bear. I hope that I didn't offend anyone with that costume :D

[Vanguard1917]

Yet another irrelevant campaign started by bored college Liberals.

I mean, really?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/3777084698_a7ef4bf328.jpg

[khad]

Even if liberal identity politics is shitty and annoying, all I see from this thread are a bunch of white people being white. Do you even see what the costumes are?

Ignore the geisha for now. The first photo is a costume of an Arab with a bomb strapped to his chest--a terrorist, the kind of people that American society justifies killing in almost all forms of media. And real violence has been done to immigrants as a result of such legitimized hate speech. This breeds nothing but a culture of ignorance about the Middle East and Muslim world.

As for the third image, the black gangbanger:

http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/02/college_ghetto-themed_parties_the_awful_racist_idea_that_just_won t_die.html


You stay in this world long enough and you’ll reach the point where news can be shocking, but it fails to surprise you anymore. And so it is with the latest from the University of California, San Diego, and a “Compton Cookout” a couple frat boys held this past weekend.

Yes, you read right. In honor of Black History Month (I am making a mental note to myself to add “ghetto-themed” parties to this list), UCSD students organized a party with the following invitation:


February marks a very important month in American society. No, i’m not referring to Valentines day or Presidents day. I’m talking about Black History month. As a time to celebrate and in hopes of showing respect, the Regents community cordially invites you to its very first Compton Cookout.

For guys: I expect all males to be rockin Jersey’s, stuntin’ up in ya White T (XXXL smallest size acceptable), anything FUBU, Ecko, Rockawear, High/low top Jordans or Dunks, Chains, Jorts, stunner shades, 59 50 hats, Tats, etc.

For girls: For those of you who are unfamiliar with ghetto chicks-Ghetto chicks usually have gold teeth, start fights and drama, and wear cheap clothes - they consider Baby Phat to be high class and expensive couture…Ghetto chicks have a very limited vocabulary, and attempt to make up for it, by forming new words, such as “constipulated”, or simply cursing persistently, or using other types of vulgarities, and making noises, such as “hmmg!”, or smacking their lips, and making other angry noises,grunts, and faces.You think it can’t get more offensive, but it doesn’t stop. You think it couldn’t make you angrier, but it does. And Chevelle Newell, a member of the Black Student Union and a UCSD undergrad who’s been organizing forums and actions in response to the offense, said that the Facebook invite for the “Compton Cookout” had 272 confirmed guests before it was shut down. “It reflects the campus climate,” Newell said. “It was more than just one or two people who found this funny.”The reason why something of a liberal ass college campaign exists about this issue is because of the history of this garbage in US colleges, with white people using the guise of celebration to demean and mock the African American struggle, Mexican farm laborers, and other socially marginalized groups. It doesn't take a genius to see that this is fucked up.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I actually couldn't really tell what the third picture was supposed to be. It just looks like someone grinning and pointing while an albino Robert Pattinson bites them in the neck.

[jaki cold]

As for the third image, the black gangbanger:

*link to "Compton Cookout" article*


What, you've never been to an "N word" Night (derp) party before? My friends and I used to do this all the time in high school. Drink 40s of OE and smoke grape-flavored blunts? Speak in ebonics all night, and call each other Jerome and Jaquon? Keep the neighbors up with Jedi Mind Trick and Tech N9ne? I'm surprised at you, it's important to experience other cultures. :tt2:

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

This campaign has a legitimate point, even if it is a liberal campaign. If you think it's amusing for someone to pretend to be an Arab, complete with a bomb, what are you doing on a leftist board?

[ZeroNowhere]

Even if liberal identity politics is shitty and annoying, all I see from this thread are a bunch of white people being white.
Brown person being brown, in my case.

[Veovis]

Does this mean I get to act all scandalized if someone offends my German ancestry by dressing up in lederhosen?

ETA: And in regards to the other half of my heritage, am I allowed to get bent out of shape if I see a guy dressed as a leprechaun?

[Game Girl]

Did someone even ASK people if they were offended? I have a friend who is Muslim and she dosen't find the first costume offensive. (Infact, she finds it funny.)

Also, my boyfriend dosen't find the last costume offensive.

[Vanguard1917]

Did someone even ASK people if they were offended? I have a friend who is Muslim and she dosen't find the first costume offensive. (Infact, she finds it funny.)

Also, my boyfriend dosen't find the last costume offensive.

In other words, Muslims and black people are usually capable of telling the difference between a joke (however humourless) and actual racism. Unfortunately the PC police mostly can't.

[Tim Cornelis]

A person wearing traditional Dutch clothing and clogs? Horrible!

http://www.schooljournals.net/arcade2/media/NL%20Pictures/boer.bmp

This is NOT who I am, and this is NOT okay! We're a culture, not a costume.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Yet another irrelevant campaign started by bored college Liberals.

I mean, really?

motherfucker you are from Dearborn.

[Franz Fanonipants]

A person wearing traditional Dutch clothing and clogs? Horrible!

http://www.schooljournals.net/arcade2/media/NL%20Pictures/boer.bmp

This is NOT who I am, and this is NOT okay! We're a culture, not a costume.

of course europeans are gonna sit here lampooning shit that they have no stake in.

[Tim Cornelis]

of course europeans are gonna sit here lampooning shit that they have no stake in.

Oh right, we're going to divide people based on their origins now? "You're not allowed to discuss subject X because you're foreign!".

Saying "this is not who I am" while simultaneously saying "I'm nonetheless offended by it" that's ridiculous. Unless you are from the same town or state (Ohio), and have the same ethnic background as the people in the pictures, you shouldn't be discussing it.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Oh right, we're going to divide people based on their origins now? "You're not allowed to discuss subject X because you're foreign!".

Saying "this is not who I am" while simultaneously saying "I'm nonetheless offended by it" that's ridiculous. Unless you are from the same town or state (Ohio), and have the same ethnic background as the people in the pictures, you shouldn't be discussing it.

when was the last time you faced actual discrimination for being dutch

[Hit The North]

In other words, Muslims and black people are usually capable of telling the difference between a joke (however humourless) and actual racism. Unfortunately the PC police mostly can't.

Except showing an Arab with a suicide bomb intact as if it is part of the traditional costume is obviously racist. Plus, given the wider context of the real abuse Muslims receive in the West from both "humorous citizens" and oppressive cops, it is an evasion to pull the ace card of "What's up, can't you take a joke?" Just because an individual decides to roll with the punches doesn't mean that punches are not being thrown.

[blackandyellow]

Meh, posh university kids in the UK love to have 'chav parties' and wear checked hats, track suit bottoms and hoop ear rings. Its a bit annoying considering i used to dress like that (except the hoop ear rings, my gf wore them) but whatever, its an expression of their prejudices maybe, not a cause of anything greater, despite what some dickhead in a uni who cant cross a road or have normal human interaction writes about it saying it normalises blah blah blah, leave me alone.

[#FF0000]

Does this mean people shouldn't dress like,i don't know,chavs or rednecks either?

yeah actually i think people who dress up as rednecks or whatever are douchebags just like hipsters wearing headdresses are.

[#FF0000]

Did someone even ASK people if they were offended? I have a friend who is Muslim and she dosen't find the first costume offensive. (Infact, she finds it funny.)

i guess she is the queen of all muslim people

[#FF0000]

In other words, Muslims and black people are usually capable of telling the difference between a joke (however humourless) and actual racism. Unfortunately the PC police mostly can't.

I really don't see what's wrong with letting people know that their shitty humor and costumes make people feel uncomfortable.

darn brown people making me consider their feelings and getting in the way of my fun gubgubgubgugbugbgubg

[tir1944]

Hate to sound like an individualist,but why would you worry about what other people dress like at their parties?

[the Leftâ„¢]

Yet another irrelevant campaign started by bored college Liberals.

I mean, really?

http://firstfriday.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/liberal_crap.jpg

[Franz Fanonipants]

Hate to sound like an individualist,but why would you worry about what other people dress like at their parties?

living in a post-colonial society makes shit tough cuz

[#FF0000]

Hate to sound like an individualist,but why would you worry about what other people dress like at their parties?

If they're dressed up as a blatant racial stereotype then why wouldn't you?

[Franz Fanonipants]

despite what some dickhead in a uni who cant cross a road or have normal human interaction writes about it saying it normalises blah blah blah, leave me alone.

this is the way reactionaries legitimize class warfare

[#FF0000]

it's good to know that folks at revleft would be a-okay with my 'jew rat" costume, i guess.

i mean its just a costume, right guys?

[MustCrushCapitalism]

For some reason, I picture an American eating a big mac as a good candidate for this campaign. :p

[Franz Fanonipants]

it's good to know that folks at revleft would be a-okay with my 'jew rat" costume, i guess.

i mean its just a costume, right guys?

the only ones who would object would be eggheads who can't interact w/real people amirite

[Franz Fanonipants]

For some reason, I picture an American eating a big mac as a good candidate for this campaign. :p

that's not the same thing comrade

[Tim Cornelis]

when was the last time you faced actual discrimination for being dutch

Ok, so dressing up as a Dutch stereotype would be condemned if it was in South Africa then? Seeing how Afrikaners are discriminated against?

[Franz Fanonipants]

Ok, so dressing up as a Dutch stereotype would be condemned if it was in South Africa then? Seeing how Afrikaners are discriminated against?

amazing

[Kitty_Paine]

If they're dressed up as a blatant racial stereotype then why wouldn't you?

You would be one pissed off, busy individual if you worried about every party and instance in which someone was wearing a blatantly racist stereotypical costume... like... It would comsume your life. Constantly worrying about what other people think of you is a terrible way to lead your life... Yeah, yeah I know my opinion doesn't count because I'm a white girl. I would have you know though I have been bullied quite a bit for being poor... sounds ridiculous but yes, it does happen... (does this help my case at all?? *looks around*)

If a bunch of people want to get together and wear racist/stereotypical costumes... let them, couldn't be worse than a KKK meeting, right?

But the second it turns into racist action... then we have a problem...

[#FF0000]

that's not the same thing comrade

I can't think of a way that costume could be executed without accidentally becoming a "redneck costume" so

[Franz Fanonipants]

But the second it turns into racist action... then we have a problem...

How is dressing up as "wild Indian" or etc. not already a racist action, comrade?

Does racism necessitate the splitting of wigs? What I mean to say is, what is the line that you choose to draw on a racist action?

[Franz Fanonipants]

I can't think of a way that costume could be executed without accidentally becoming a "redneck costume" so

poors are fat and lol

[#FF0000]

You would be one pissed off, busy individual if you worried about every party and instance in which someone was wearing a blatantly racist stereotypical... like... It would comsume your life.

What

no it wouldn't

It is just stupid as hell for people to dress as "arabs" with suicide belts, or wear blackface, or any of these other dumb, racist costumes. And I think it's good that there's a little bit of a campaign letting people know that it's dumb and they shouldn't do it.


Constantly worrying about what other people think of you is a terrible way to lead your life...

I really don't have a problem living my life without saying racist things. It really is not hard and does not affect my quality of life at all.

[tir1944]

If they're dressed up as a blatant racial stereotype then why wouldn't you?
Because i'm not interested in that.
I don't care if someone else dresses up as a geisha or a rapper at private parties either.

[khad]

Because i'm not interested in that.
I don't care if someone else dresses up as a geisha or a rapper at private parties either.
And you didn't get how "chicken and watermelon" is racist.

Spare me, seriously.

[#FF0000]

Because i'm not interested in that.

well i can't say I'm surprised.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Because i'm not interested in that.
I don't care if someone else dresses up as a geisha or a rapper at private parties either.

we don't "deeply care" about it, rather, it's only symptomatic of the wider problems of racism inherent to capitalism.

letting privileged assholes know, "hey guess what it's bullshit that you and your bros decided to throw a conquistapimps and nava-hos party" is just the side-bonus.

[Battlecat]

How is dressing up as "wild Indian" or etc. not already a racist action, comrade?

Does racism necessitate the splitting of wigs? What I mean to say is, what is the line that you choose to draw on a racist action?
Dressing up in a sombrero with a thick moustache for Halloween is acceptable, if not begrudgingly tolerated. Actively seeking out Hispanic people and sending them to gas chambers is not acceptable.

And if you say the two things are the same, or even similar, then you are a butthurt middle class white kid.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Dressing up in a sombrero with a thick moustache for Halloween is acceptable.

To fucking who?

E: I'm Mexican, live on the border, and have never seen this shit as socially accepted. Huh. Must be some kind of something at work...

as for the rest of your post fuck off w/your constructed worst possible scenario of racism. the better racist line is blocking pregnant mexican women from the hospital while yelling about anchor babies.

[Tim Cornelis]

amazing

You implied that dressing up as a Dutch stereotype is okay because I didn't get discriminated against based on my ethnicity. Afrikaners, descendants of Dutch, are discriminated against in South Africa, therefore dressing up in traditional dutch clothing in RSA is to be condemned, no?

Let's read this phrase: THIS IS NOT ME, therefore I am offended. Why? If it's not you, why get offended?

Why would you be offended if someone dresses up in a sombrero and mustache?

[ZeroNowhere]

And if you say the two things are the same, or even similar, then you are a butthurt middle class white kid.
Heh, everyone's doing it now. God, I love the Discrimination forum.

[Rusty Shackleford]

IMO someone dressing in Saudi clothing and then with a bomb around them for Halloween should probably get the shit kicked out of them.

[tir1944]

And you didn't get how "chicken and watermelon" is racist.Thanks to google and some people here i got a better insight.


well i can't say I'm surprised. I said that i'm not interested in dressing up as a blatant racial stereotype (assuming that Mexicans or Japanese are indeed a race,which the poster to who i replied seems to be implying).I don't see anything interesting about that however i'm not upset by someone else doing that in his/her own home.

letting privileged assholes know, "hey guess what it's bullshit that you and your bros decided to throw a conquistapimps and nava-hos party" is just the side-bonus. I leave that to you.
Worrying about what other people wear behind closed doors is not on the top of the list of my priorities.

[#FF0000]

Dressing up in a sombrero with a thick moustache for Halloween is acceptable, if not begrudgingly tolerated. Actively seeking out Hispanic people and sending them to gas chambers is not acceptable.

Racist caricature is a-okay because it isn't the same as murder. Okay.


And if you say the two things are the same, or even similar, then you are a butthurt middle class white kid.

Good thing no one said they were.

[#FF0000]

Worrying about what other people wear behind closed doors is not on the top of the list of my priorities.

people actually go out on halloween you know

and there are people like this at the parties we go to

again i don't see what's wrong with reminding people that racist caricature isn't funny.

[Battlecat]

Racist caricature is a-okay because it isn't the same as murder. Okay.



Good thing no one said they were.

Way to miss my point

[#FF0000]

Way to miss my point

What is your point?

[khad]

Worrying about what other people wear behind closed doors is not on the top of the list of my priorities.
FYI, college parties and the like are public events. Your privacy doctrine doesn't exactly apply.

[tir1944]

Oh ok then.
Maybe i just don't understand...coming from E.Europe where racism isn't such an issue in the general public discourse i haven't had too much experience with such things....

[Franz Fanonipants]

Why would you be offended if someone dresses up in a sombrero and mustache?

Inquiring European minds must know

[khad]

Oh ok then.
Maybe i just don't understand...coming from E.Europe where racism isn't such an issue in the general public discourse i haven't had too much experience with such things....
http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/galleries/2011/8493/northwestern_resize.jpg
College: Northwestern University
Occasion: Halloween
Year: 2009

http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/galleries/2011/8493/ud_2_resize.jpg
College: University of Delaware
Occasion: Cinco de Mayo
Year: 2007

http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/galleries/2011/8493/mlk_texas_crips.jpg
College: Tarleton State University (Texas)
Occasion: Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
Year: 2007

http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/galleries/2011/8493/620x400/clemson_fortyhands_resize.jpg
College: Clemson University (South Carolina)
Occasion: Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
Year: 2007

[Franz Fanonipants]

http://images.wikia.com/looneytunes/images/d/d0/Slowpoke_Rodriguez.jpg

guys i literally see nothing wrong with this literally nothing

[blackandyellow]

FYI, college parties and the like are public events. Your privacy doctrine doesn't exactly apply.

I wouldnt let you in my party. Just saying.

Also, I never imagined you, Khad, of being a reader of Complex Magazine :laugh:

[#FF0000]

I wouldnt let you in my party. Just saying

look @ these lames having opinions and thinking its kind of a dick move to dress as a racist caricature gubgaubfubgub

[Vanguard1917]

Except showing an Arab with a suicide bomb intact as if it is part of the traditional costume is obviously racist.

But it's most likely intended as a harmless joke, and many Muslims would be able to see that, especially, for example, in a university-campus context (a place commonly populated by clowns and bell-ends of infinite sorts). Some people (by no means necessarily Muslim themselves, and probably usually not) may be more sensitive due to thinner skins and may tend to make mountains out of molehills, but that's often a fact of life when it comes to other people's tastes in humour. Ask Ofcom.

[Bardo]

http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/galleries/2011/8493/620x400/clemson_fortyhands_resize.jpg
College: Clemson University (South Carolina)
Occasion: Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
Year: 2007


What's racist about this one? The other photos are clearly racist but this one just looks like people playing Edward 40 hands.

[Franz Fanonipants]

But it's most likely intended as a harmless joke

I doubt an asshole who would dress up as "arab suicide bomber" has much in the way of "intent" about anything he does.

[khad]

What's racist about this one? The other photos are clearly racist but this one just looks like people playing Edward 40 hands.
College: Clemson University (South Carolina)
Occasion: Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
Year: 2007

[Rusty Shackleford]

What's racist about this one? The other photos are clearly racist but this one just looks like people playing Edward 40 hands.
what if it was watermelon or fried chicken taped to their hands? would it be "edward (food) hands"?

[Bardo]

People can't play drinking games on MLK day without being racist?

[black magick hustla]

To fucking who?

E: I'm Mexican, live on the border, and have never seen this shit as socially accepted. Huh. Must be some kind of something at work...

as for the rest of your post fuck off w/your constructed worst possible scenario of racism. the better racist line is blocking pregnant mexican women from the hospital while yelling about anchor babies.

yea dude it annoys me in college halloween when all the little cumstains pull out their big sombreros and their moustaches and whatever and think they have some sick constume going on. i dont fucking look like that and i dont know many people who do so. people in halloween are shitheads, there where these kids who had this cribs vs bloods party and it was all disgusting white hipsters. maybe i am being sensitive, once when i was drunk in one of those parties i called out one of those little shits with sombreros and got into a fight. fuck them really

[Rusty Shackleford]

People can't play drinking games on MLK day without being racist?
you obviously arent making the connection.

[Bardo]

Maybe it's just where I'm from but the game is pretty common. I don't think any harm was intended.

[#FF0000]

man, here is the thing. i would not normally be so fire-breathing over this because I think most of the time when people dress up like this, they don't really understand how it makes them look like a dumb fuck. They never really considered how it might offend someone.

but holy shit you guys should know better.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Maybe it's just where I'm from but the game is pretty common. I don't think any harm was intended.

fuck intention

[Bardo]

fuck intention

So if they were playing the game on any other day of the week it would be non-racist, and if they were playing with 5ths of Jack Daniels rather than 40s it would be non-racist?

[Franz Fanonipants]

So if they were playing the game on any other day of the week it would be non-racist, and if they were playing with 5ths of Jack Daniels rather than 40s it would be non-racist?

in different, non-"ghetto" clothes, sure.

motherfucker you have to be obtuse to not see there's a performance of "blackness" going on there.

E: shit, keep the 40s even idk i used to like to get drunk on a 40 or two, i can relate.

[#FF0000]

My favorite thing about this is that most of you motherfuckers would be baying for blood if you saw the pictures of that one bank that had a halloween party where these executives were dressing up as the broke people they foreclosed on.

[Bardo]

in different, non-"ghetto" clothes, sure.

motherfucker you have to be obtuse to not see there's a performance of "blackness" going on there.

Looks like a typical day off in certain "white neighborhoods" to me.

[#FF0000]

Like, goddamn people, you could all see what's in poor taste about this (http://www.minyanville.com/dailyfeed/2011/10/31/law-firm-pokes-fun-of/), right?

So why can't you understand why white people -- or anyone -- dressing up as ethnic, racial, or national stereotypes of arabs, mexicans, africans, etc. is in poor taste as well?

[Franz Fanonipants]

Looks like a typical day off in certain "white neighborhoods" to me.

if it wasn't on a college campus sure w/e

[khad]

So if they were playing the game on any other day of the week it would be non-racist, and if they were playing with 5ths of Jack Daniels rather than 40s it would be non-racist?
And you are being intentionally obtuse.

http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=46400


Clemson (WHNS, AP) - A party at Clemson University has some of the student body upset. The party, held on Martin Luther King Junior day, poked fun at racial stereotypes with partygoers dressed in blackface and other offensive gear. The party was held off-campus. Pictures from the event show one man who'd painted himself black, and other students gripping bottles of malt liquor with their hands duct-taped to the bottles. The theme of the party was 'Living the Dream.' Student Lerone Smalls says it's very offensive. "They acted out of ignorance," he says. "It promotes a negative image on black people, the race of people." There are more pictures, one showing a girl with fake gold teeth and wearing a t-shirt that shows someone smiling with a gold grill. One girl stuffed her pants to enlarge her behind. Several people are wearing gold chains, jerseys, and baggy clothes. Some say the most offensive thing was a poster at the party which shows Martin Luther King Jr. with the words 'drink more' coming out of his mouth. Adedoyin Salami, a junior at Clemson, went to the party. "It went from making fun of a cultural phenomenon, to making fun of a culture of people. At that point it became offensive and a lot of people left the party." Adedoyin says he left, but originally came dressed in business attire. He says he went hoping to change minds. "There are difference among people and we have to learn to work with each other in a way we're not always stereotyping people," he says. Some students were suprised by what they saw. "It seems almost racist," says Lauren Walpole, a sophomore. "This doesn't represent Clemson and I think this is a poor judgment on their part," said Ashley York. Clemson President James Barker says the school is investigating. School officials say they became aware of the party over the weekend and have met with some of the offended students. Tuesday morning, he sent a letter to students about the incident. (Read the Letter Sent to Students) (http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=46415) Barker says he's angry and disappointed with the event. School officials say they are investigating to determine if any students were harassed or if there was underage drinking at the party. An unsigned letter from party organizers read to some of the offended students Sunday apologized for any disrespect. A black fraternity, Omega Psi Phi, plans a meeting about race relations, possibly next month. The president of the South Carolina chapter of the NAACP says the party was more than just harmless fun. Dr. Lonnie Randolph says the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is investigating similar parties held elsewhere around the country.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Adedoyin-Salami/1352456289
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/41371_1352456289_1429_n.jpg


In other words, Muslims and black people are usually capable of telling the difference between a joke (however humourless) and actual racism. Unfortunately the PC police mostly can't.

Except when black people do take offense, they're not "real" "black" people according to you.

[Bardo]

Eh, maybe you're right. There are no ghetto white people on college campuses.

[Bardo]

And you are being intentionally obtuse.

http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=46400


This wasn't attached to the photo.

[El Louton]

Us Brits....

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=thompson+and+thompson+tintin&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1680&bih=832&tbm=isch&tbnid=LdXvvztdvXBFRM:&imgrefurl=http://www.geekosystem.com/frost-pegg-thomson-thompson/&docid=_sYZDx4qICjYyM&imgurl=http://www.geekosystem.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/thomson_and_thompson.jpg&w=236&h=199&ei=3eCuTr3POoaX8QP0qJGoCw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=715&vpy=175&dur=3327&hovh=159&hovw=188&tx=112&ty=72&sig=106453540325898530180&page=1&tbnh=151&tbnw=179&start=0&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0

[Franz Fanonipants]

Eh, maybe you're right. There are no ghetto white people on college campuses.

you're right bro obvs this is a picture of a group of poor white folks at clemson just chillin after finals week.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Theres a difference between being a stupid PC liberal and militantly opposing manifestations of racism.

[khad]

This has nothing to do with what I've been saying. Whatsoever.
My, my, who's being self-important? Is your screen name Vanguard1917?

[Bardo]

Theres a difference between being a stupid PC liberal and militantly opposing manifestations of racism.

All Im saying is the photo wasn't inherently racist at a glance. Unlike the other photos with people in blackface and racist comments written on their clothing.

Some white people DO dress that way everyday.

My mistake.

[Franz Fanonipants]

All Im saying is the photo wasn't inherently racist at a glance. Unlike the other photos with people in blackface and racist comments written on their clothing.

Are you white, comrade?

[Bardo]

Are you white, comrade?

Yep.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Yep.

Not to be dismissive, and saying this entirely on the nose, it may be that privilege insulates you from noticing it.

If you're being genuine, then...well...that may be what's going on.

[Bardo]

Not to be dismissive, and saying this entirely on the nose, it may be that privilege insulates you from noticing it.


I've never been to Clemson, South Carolina but the photo didn't really look out of the ordinary from what parties back home in Flint, Michigan look like. The difference being in Flint, the people (white and black) aren't dressing up in costumes, they dress that way all the time.

[Franz Fanonipants]

And that's the issue. I'm p. sure these kids were dressed up like that for MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY

[black magick hustla]

I've never been to Clemson, South Carolina but the photo didn't really look out of the ordinary from what parties back home in Flint, Michigan look like. The difference being in Flint, the people (white and black) aren't dressing up in costumes, they dress that way all the time.

yea, people are being too hard. i didnt get the picture either. plenty people in michigan dress like that, some even in colleges. especially poor white ppl. maybe its different in the south idk, but the south blows lol

[Franz Fanonipants]

yea, people are being too hard. i didnt get the picture either. plenty people in michigan dress like that, some even in colleges. especially poor white ppl. maybe its different in the south idk, but the south blows lol

bro i am not sure about that, pretty much the big thing that said it was for a frats mlk day party closed it for me.

but that number of white folks in one place is always a shocker to me so...

[black magick hustla]

bro i am not sure about that, pretty much the big thing that said it was for a frats mlk day party closed it for me.

but that number of white folks in one place is always a shocker to me so...

no i get it. now i get it after reading through a few pages, the point is that it is not as evident. to me, if i didnt know the context, its just a bunch of michigan white ppl drinkin good ol 40s

[khad]

I've never been to Clemson, South Carolina but the photo didn't really look out of the ordinary from what parties back home in Flint, Michigan look like. The difference being in Flint, the people (white and black) aren't dressing up in costumes, they dress that way all the time.
And objectively you're wrong. Now that you know the facts, why do you continue to argue your original and incorrect position?

http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=46400


Clemson (WHNS, AP) - A party at Clemson University has some of the student body upset. The party, held on Martin Luther King Junior day, poked fun at racial stereotypes with partygoers dressed in blackface and other offensive gear. The party was held off-campus. Pictures from the event show one man who'd painted himself black, and other students gripping bottles of malt liquor with their hands duct-taped to the bottles. The theme of the party was 'Living the Dream.' Student Lerone Smalls says it's very offensive. "They acted out of ignorance," he says. "It promotes a negative image on black people, the race of people." There are more pictures, one showing a girl with fake gold teeth and wearing a t-shirt that shows someone smiling with a gold grill. One girl stuffed her pants to enlarge her behind. Several people are wearing gold chains, jerseys, and baggy clothes. Some say the most offensive thing was a poster at the party which shows Martin Luther King Jr. with the words 'drink more' coming out of his mouth. Adedoyin Salami, a junior at Clemson, went to the party. "It went from making fun of a cultural phenomenon, to making fun of a culture of people. At that point it became offensive and a lot of people left the party." Adedoyin says he left, but originally came dressed in business attire. He says he went hoping to change minds. "There are difference among people and we have to learn to work with each other in a way we're not always stereotyping people," he says. Some students were suprised by what they saw. "It seems almost racist," says Lauren Walpole, a sophomore. "This doesn't represent Clemson and I think this is a poor judgment on their part," said Ashley York. Clemson President James Barker says the school is investigating. School officials say they became aware of the party over the weekend and have met with some of the offended students. Tuesday morning, he sent a letter to students about the incident. (Read the Letter Sent to Students) (http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=46415) Barker says he's angry and disappointed with the event. School officials say they are investigating to determine if any students were harassed or if there was underage drinking at the party. An unsigned letter from party organizers read to some of the offended students Sunday apologized for any disrespect. A black fraternity, Omega Psi Phi, plans a meeting about race relations, possibly next month. The president of the South Carolina chapter of the NAACP says the party was more than just harmless fun. Dr. Lonnie Randolph says the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is investigating similar parties held elsewhere around the country.

From the same party:
http://www.marclamonthill.com/mlhblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/clemson.jpg

[Bardo]

And objectively you're wrong. Now that you know the facts, why do you continue to argue your original and incorrect position?

http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=46400

I'm not, and posting the same article twice isn't going to make your point louder.

After you posted the article I said "my mistake". What do you want from me?

[khad]

I'm not, and posting the same article twice isn't going to make your point louder.

After you posted the article I said "my mistake". What do you want from me?
If you are mistaken, why do you continue to insist that "it's not obvious that it's racist" as if it's a legitimate point?

[La Peur Rouge]

So where do we cross the line between offensive stereotypical costumes and historically accurate costumes?

[Bardo]

If you are mistaken, why do you continue to insist that "it's not obvious that it's racist" as if it's a legitimate point?

Because without context, it wasn't inherently racist at first glance. There were no people in blackface or wearing racist comments on their clothing, it could have been a photo of a house party in Flint, like I said. A lot of white people do dress like that and aren't dressing up for a party. It could have been MLK day, Labor day, spring break etc. Days off typically = let's get drunk in many circles.

With a little more context and more pictures from the same party, I concede that the people in the photo were playing a role and probably don't dress like that every day.

[#FF0000]

So where do we cross the line between offensive stereotypical costumes and historically accurate costumes?

when they are actually historically accurate and not stereotypes?

idk it seems like that would be obvious.

[La Peur Rouge]

when they are actually historically accurate and not stereotypes?

idk it seems like that would be obvious.

Well yeah, but why then does the geisha fit into the category of stereotypical costumes?

[Hivemind]

I should dress up as a stereotypical Revlefter, go to a party and purposefully get offended by every little thing that happens there. :D

On a serious note though, whoever thinks that the stereotype for muslims is terrorist and they actually believe that, then yeah those people are stupid. But I see nothing wrong with people dressing up in stereotypical outfits, because the whole purpose, I think, is to poke fun at how outrageously absurd and untrue they are. Or, to use said costumes in a sarcastic way, or all in good fun.

I've never met a lazy Mexican who is lazy because he was Mexican. I have never met a Chinese person who is a math genius because he's Chinese. I've never met a black person who eats fried chicken because he's black. People are the way they are because of the way they are, not because of race. Sure, some environmental and cultural things get passed on through family and upbringing, but stereotypes are stupid and only stupid people ardently believe that stereotypes define people.

[RED DAVE]

In Croatian in February we have some kind of events when we put on masks. So when I was a kid one year I was a Care Bear. I hope that I didn't offend anyone with that costume :DYou will be hearing from the Care Bears Legal Defense Fund soon.

RED DAVE

[Rusty Shackleford]

I should dress up as a stereotypical Revlefter, go to a party and purposefully get offended by every little thing that happens there. :D

On a serious note though, whoever thinks that the stereotype for muslims is terrorist and they actually believe that, then yeah those people are stupid. But I see nothing wrong with people dressing up in stereotypical outfits, because the whole purpose, I think, is to poke fun at how outrageously absurd and untrue they are. Or, to use said costumes in a sarcastic way, or all in good fun.

I've never met a lazy Mexican who is lazy because he was Mexican. I have never met a Chinese person who is a math genius because he's Chinese. I've never met a black person who eats fried chicken because he's black. People are the way they are because of the way they are, not because of race. Sure, some environmental and cultural things get passed on through family and upbringing, but stereotypes are stupid and only stupid people ardently believe that stereotypes define people.
Let me dress up as an exaggerated stereotype to show the irony of the stereotype and haha!


excellent logic there!

[#FF0000]

Well yeah, but why then does the geisha fit into the category of stereotypical costumes?

Don't know.

Don't think it should, either, really.

[Franz Fanonipants]

So where do we cross the line between offensive stereotypical costumes and historically accurate costumes?

as a historian who knows people who do historical reenactment (nerds) the line will be that the historically accurate costume is fucking boring.

[Tim Cornelis]

http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/galleries/2011/8493/northwestern_resize.jpg
College: Northwestern University
Occasion: Halloween
Year: 2009

http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/galleries/2011/8493/ud_2_resize.jpg
College: University of Delaware
Occasion: Cinco de Mayo
Year: 2007

http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/galleries/2011/8493/mlk_texas_crips.jpg
College: Tarleton State University (Texas)
Occasion: Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
Year: 2007

http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/galleries/2011/8493/620x400/clemson_fortyhands_resize.jpg
College: Clemson University (South Carolina)
Occasion: Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
Year: 2007

There's a difference between dressing like a racist stereotype ("spicks and clean")--as depicted by your pictures--and a cultural stereotype (geisha or sombrero)--as depicted here:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/191/066/tumblr_ltfh1akXrv1qkiqqg.jpg?1319561813
http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/191/023/culture4.jpg?1319541417

That's why dressing up like a Dutch sterotype (clogs, traditional clothing) is not offensive, and dressing up like a white supremacist pro-Apartheid individual that symbolises all Dutch people is. The former is a cultural stereotype, the latter is a racist stereotype.

[The Man]

This is a really really stupid thread that needs to be closed.

[Franz Fanonipants]

This is a really really stupid thread that needs to be closed.

ladies and gentlemen. discourse.

[Franz Fanonipants]

There's a difference between dressing like a racist stereotype ("spicks and clean")--as depicted by your pictures--and a cultural stereotype (geisha or sombrero)

the difference being that afrikaaners are discriminated against in s. africa or what?

there isn't a fucking difference.

[Tim Cornelis]

the difference being that afrikaaners are discriminated against in s. africa or what?

there isn't a fucking difference.

I didn't refer to Afrikaners in that post, and I don't get what you're trying to say. My point, dressing up like a black racist stereotype is wholly different than dressing up like a geisha--a cultural stereotype.

[La Peur Rouge]

Don't know.

Don't think it should, either, really.

I agree.


as a historian who knows people who do historical reenactment (nerds) the line will be that the historically accurate costume is fucking boring.

Sure it may be fucking boring and obviously dressing up as an Arab with a bomb strapped to your chest or some idiot kid dressing up like a "thug" and painting themselves black is offensive, stupid, and nowhere near accurate. But something being "boring" is pretty irrelevant.

[Ele'ill]

Hey, If you're using racist and sexist stereotypes to be cool on Halloween you're engaging in racist and sexist behavior.

[Manic Impressive]

sorry guys I know this is a little off topic but it's still kind of on topic as it concerns white people dressing up and imitating non white people in this case an Asian man.
dCk6fSQ21rY
So they're taking the piss out of racists but one is dressed as an Asian man. Racist or Not?

and if not, is this from the same show racist
pScfIV3RyKs
Am I an evil white supremacist Nazi for finding it kind of funny?

[ZeroNowhere]

I'm not sure why people feel the need to dress up in these kinds of provocative costumes for Halloween, I just listen to bands singing about killing and raping virgins. It is quite clearly more innocuous.

[kitsune]

Just to be clear, I didn't intend to suggest that I think it's okay to dress up as blatantly racist caricatures. I just think it's absurd to extend that notion to any cultural depiction whatsoever. Dressing up as a geisha is fine.

I have some traditional Native American clothing. I would not wear this to be in any way disrespectful or to present a stereotypical image. I will wear it out of respect and admiration, and to show how incredibly beautiful it is.

[PhoenixAsh]

of course europeans are gonna sit here lampooning shit that they have no stake in.

Firstly: Halloween is a EUROPEAN festival...which you imported.

However...you won't hear me say that you Americans should perhaps not dabble in European hollidays which you are quite obviously too immature to handle.


Secondly: This is pretty damned exclusivist of you. And actually, as long as we are on the subject of liberal opinions on what discrimination is, it perfectly fits the liberal definition of discrimination what you are doing here.

Thirdly: We not only celebrate Halloween but also Carnival and many European cultures dress up as a part of those celebrations....like we do in Holland.


I hardly think our opinions could and should be dismissed on the basis of geograpic location...or cultural differences which you percieve as making us somehow unqualified to have a valid opinion. Which in fact answers your NEXT question perfectly:


when was the last time you faced actual discrimination for being dutch

...just now.


****************
****************

In general:



Halloween is a festival based on stereotypical portrayal of all kinds....this includes a whole range of stereotypes and includes minorities. The reason why it does so is because people recognize them...which is the main point of a costume.

Now there is a very large distinction between a costume which may depict some stereotype and a theme party which uses a stereotype to represent an entire culture.

The criticism of the campaign focusses on the stereotypes and somehow tries to make them a representation of an entire culture....and I should not have to tell everbody here that a culture is not a homogenous entity and when push comes to shove middle class black kids do not identify culturally with black kids who live, for example, in projects. Just as much as I do not culturally identify with our Southern neighbors who live just a few dozen kilometers away: the Belgians....nor do I culturally identify with people from Marken who dress up in traditional costumes and wear wooden shoes....or with people from exremely small rural villages. So being offended by a costume which depicts a stereotype of a black gang banger (as it has been named here) or getting offended because I white kid paints their face or body black....is just plain idiotic. And to somehow try to make costumes into a force of discrimination is completely besides the point.

This does not negate the fact that these costumes can not be used in a racist way. Because quite obviously they can. A party focussing on some racial stereotype in an attempt to somehow portray an entire culture as being identified and defined by that stereotype is definately racist and discriminatory. There is a world of difference between such a party and a party in which some induvidual dresses up like a mockery of Pancho Villa, or wears a slutty nurse costume, or perhaps dresses up like a black person.

Because when push comes to shove...why can't a white kid paint themselves black and dress up like a gangsta rapper? Why is THAT offensive? Because he is not black? Or because you believe that a white kid dressing up like Ice Cube or Lil Wayne somehow perpetuates a stereotype and contributes to racism?

The campaign simply states: if you do not belong to a culture then do not dress up like that culture. And that is pretty much trying to perpetuate cultural devisions based on the very same stereotypes by making the stereotypes seem to be the definition of that culture.

Are we denying there are bloods and crips? Are we denying that there are/were Geisha's? Are we denying there Chief Standing Buffaloo wore a feathered headgarb? That Pancho Villa rode a mule, had a mustache and wore a sombrero? Because that seems like a little foolish.

So why can't I dress up like those people? Do I have to limit myself to my "own" cultural heritage because otherwise I am somehow disriminating and disrespecting and entire culture? Obviously not imo. But it is exactly what the campaign says.

Or is it perhaps the idea that white kids dress up like that? Because would we equally condemn kids from other minorities if they dress up like a stereotype of other minorities? And...how about the people from the culture dressing up in a stereotype of their own culture?

The context is lost. And it is the context which is important. Blanket statements of PC behaviour are simply inadequate to adress the issue.

It is also completely misguided. The stuctural racism in the system is the cause of racism and discrimination...not some silly or poorly thought through Halloween costume...

[Os Cangaceiros]

It would be cool if one of those ads featured a somber-looking Somali pirate holding up a picture of some jackass wearing an eyepatch, pegleg and brandishing a cutlass. "THIS IS NOT WHO I AM."

[Nicolai]

I find this a quite difficult issue, and to explain with my proletarian way of emphasizing the sides, is that many are just being openly assholes about it and goes like "it's just a joke/consume" whatever, and sometimes some are HIGHLY to sensitive about it (this is, stereotyping in general I'm referring to). I'm trying to see the middle-ground, but it's hard with all this nonsense. Also, the argument that "I have a X friend[s] who is okay with Y", is pretty futile; the minority doesn't represent the majority. Even though there's no front for example going against muslims pictured as terrorists and what not (an example, don't know if any do), you can use common sense to see it's quite negative, even if it's a joke when it's done/told time over and over, some begin to develop the image that Muslims (in this case) are precisely like that.

Catch my drift comrades?


In Croatian in February we have some kind of events when we put on masks. So when I was a kid one year I was a Care Bear. I hope that I didn't offend anyone with that costume :D

Yeah, my ex (she's Croatian; long-distance relationship) told me about that. Do you know any that celebrate Halloween, spite being shunned? o. o

[28350]

jokes are harmless
zZ7qdG2kcIc

[The Douche]

Do those of you who see nothing wrong with costumes which are potentially culturally offensive also not believe in things like white privilege or male privilege or straight privilege?

[kurr]

Dressing up as a geisha is fine.No. It really isnt
I would not wear this to be in any way disrespectful or to present a stereotypical image. I will wear it out of respect and admiration, and to show how incredibly beautiful it is.You should stick to your own culture and stop contaminating others, whitey. No one is impressed.

[kurr]

blahFirst off, shut your wonderbread face
The stuctural racism in the system is the cause of racism and discrimination...not some silly or poorly thought through Halloween costume...How do you not see white privilege extending to all spheres of life and culture?some fucking anarchist you are

[#FF0000]

You should stick to your own culture and stop contaminating others

this strikes me as kind of dumb.


whitey.I am almost 100% certain Kitsune is Japanese.

[Hivemind]

You should stick to your own culture and stop contaminating others, whitey. No one is impressed.


some fucking anarchist you are

Some fucking Anarchist you are.

[#FF0000]

It is also completely misguided. The stuctural racism in the system is the cause of racism and discrimination...not some silly or poorly thought through Halloween costume...

well no shit but that doesn't mean that racist caricature is okay.

[Manic Impressive]

Do those of you who see nothing wrong with costumes which are potentially culturally offensive also not believe in things like white privilege or male privilege or straight privilege?
Has anyone said that they find none of the pictures posted racist? I thought most people were saying some were and some weren't. A white person putting black make up on and acting in a negative way is absolutely racist due to the significant and recent history of shows like the black and white minstrels. I would say dressing up as a suicide bomber is also racist due to it's current implications. But dressing up as a Geisha is not even nearly in the same league, it's not a stereotype but a traditional dress and is worn because it's considered very beautiful, it's certainly not being worn to lampoon the people of Japan.

On Whiteness theory http://www.isreview.org/issues/46/whiteness.shtml

[ZeroNowhere]

First off, shut your wonderbread face

How do you not see white privilege extending to all spheres of life and culture?some fucking anarchist you are
You join the evergreen legion of members whom I couldn't describe without being infracted for discriminatory language.

[Искра]

You should stick to your own culture and stop contaminating others, whitey. No one is impressed.
This is just stupid and all I can say is that you missed the point and you missed politics. Cultures do not "contaminate" each other, as there's no such thing as "cultural purity". After all only nationalists and fascists are talking about such crap. We Marxists accept all cultures, but also we criticize all repression which is rooted in those cultures.

Whitey? Should people "shut up" just because they were born of certain skin colour? Go to Stormfront.

Wanker.

[Nicolai]

No. It really isntYou should stick to your own culture and stop contaminating others, whitey. No one is impressed.

Funny, I hear the extreme right say this a lot.
And you call yourself an Anarchist? You should feel ashamed.

[ZeroNowhere]

You should stick to your own culture and stop contaminating others, whitey.I, for one, am not a whitey, but a brownie. Bite me.

[kurr]

Some fucking Anarchist you are.Ya totaly got me ther

[Искра]

I, for one, am not a whitey, but a brownie. Bite me.
http://whatscookingamerica.net/Desserts/ChocolateBrownie3.jpg

I will :D

[kurr]

I am almost 100% certain Kitsune is Japanese.Why, cause because of the name/avatar? How perceptive of you. There are whites on here with an Asian motif. If Kitsune is Japanese, I apologize then.

[kurr]

On Whiteness theoryOh cool an authoritarian party who purges non whites from their ranks on the regular wants to talk about whiteness theory...

[kurr]

We Marxists accept all cultures, but also we criticize all repression which is rooted in those cultures. LOL. I aint a marxist, bro.
Whitey? Should people &quot;shut up&quot; just because they were born of certain skin colour? Go to Stormfront.</p>Wanker.Funny you mention stormfront because they would agree with some of the white supremacists in this thread defending racist costumes and poking fun at racial stereotypes...Go figure..and Fuck you.

[ZeroNowhere]

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Desserts/ChocolateBrownie3.jpg

I will :D
No double-entendre would be complete without consummate illustration.

[kurr]

I, for one, am not a whitey, but a brownie. Bite me.Cool story. I wasnt adressing you. ..and I will.

[ZeroNowhere]

Cool story. I wasnt adressing you. ..and I will.
You did not address me, but you did offend me.

[The Douche]

Has anyone said that they find none of the pictures posted racist? I thought most people were saying some were and some weren't. A white person putting black make up on and acting in a negative way is absolutely racist due to the significant and recent history of shows like the black and white minstrels. I would say dressing up as a suicide bomber is also racist due to it's current implications. But dressing up as a Geisha is not even nearly in the same league, it's not a stereotype but a traditional dress and is worn because it's considered very beautiful, it's certainly not being worn to lampoon the people of Japan.

On Whiteness theory http://www.isreview.org/issues/46/whiteness.shtml

As somebody who is not a Japanese woman, if a Japanese woman tells me that my geisha costume is inappropriate and offensive I am going to do the right thing, and defer to her judgement. That's what combatting privilege means to me.

I saw somebody put it this way:

If a gay person tell you you're being homophobic, if a person of color tells you you're being racist, if a woman tells you you're being a misogynist etc, you don't get defensive, you don't tell them they're over reacting, you stop, and you think about your privilege and you think about what you're doing, regardless of your intentions.

[DeBon]

I was Pauly D purposely to mock Jersey Shore.

umad?

[Robocommie]

How is dressing up as "wild Indian" or etc. not already a racist action, comrade?

Does racism necessitate the splitting of wigs? What I mean to say is, what is the line that you choose to draw on a racist action?

Well obviously the extent to which it doesn't bother ME, personally, comrade. Naturally, I am the barometer of what is offensive to all people of color in general, me and my "common sense."

[#FF0000]

Why, cause because of the name/avatar? How perceptive of you.

nope

[Robocommie]

Thirdly: We not only celebrate Halloween but also Carnival and many European cultures dress up as a part of those celebrations....like we do in Holland.


Oh that's right. I guess given the whole Zwarte Piet thing you kinda have a time-honored tradition of hellaciously fucked up festival costumes. It must really chap your ass that some folks have the gall to get offended by these other, far milder ones.

[PhoenixAsh]

First off, shut your wonderbread faceHow do you not see white privilege extending to all spheres of life and culture?some fucking anarchist you are

Wonderbread face.

Wauw. Seems pretty obvious to me...judging from this and other comments you are more than a little racist yourself there buddy boy.

The fact of the matter remains that not only white people dress up in what you so aptly try to cast aside as racist in some obscene illicit transgression of cultural heritage. And your argument that people should stick to their own culture...seems oddly reminiscent of being the basis for ethnic and racialist theories.

By some figment of your imagination you apparantly think that if some white kid paints their face black and hangs some bling bling around their neck they are mocking an entire culture simply by doing so. So in YOUR mind people wearing bling bling and are black represent the entire culture of black people. Which offcourse is racist bullshit. Since for anybody who had not got his mind on the everything is racist bandwagon...that is not a representation of an entire very heterogenous culture....which really does not exist as a homogenous entity the first place.



No. It really isntYou should stick to your own culture and stop contaminating others, whitey. No one is impressed.

o my...now tell me...what exactly is my culture?



Why, cause because of the name/avatar? How perceptive of you. There are whites on here with an Asian motif. If Kitsune is Japanese, I apologize then.

whites....:rolleyes:

[kurr]

You did not address me, but you did offend me.There is no way I could've possibly offended you especially consider my posts have nothing to do with you. You aren't white. So....moving along now...
I was Pauly D purposely to mock Jersey Shore.


umad?Nah, I'm not mad. I just get mad when hipsters and privleged white people think it's dope to dress up like the stereotypes of oppressed minorites and colonized peoples. Or when said hipsters wear their clothing because they think it just "looks cool"...
nope

oh word? Well - like I said - if kitsune is infact Japanese than I was wrong and I do apologize.

[#FF0000]

By some figment of your imagination you apparantly think that if some white kid paints their face black and hangs some bling bling around their neck they are mocking an entire culture simply by doing so. So in YOUR mind people wearing bling bling and are black represent the entire culture of black people.

No. No. Holy shit no. It is a caricature. It does not have to exist in reality. It almost never does. It is an amalgamation of all the negative stereotypes associated with a culture.

Jesus Fucking Christ you people are dense.

[Hiero]

Wow had to dig through alot of shit to find some post worthy of thanking, and they were in the minority. The rest of you, go read this book. Orientalism by Edward Said

The most funniest post by the racist apologist was calling the critics of a racial stereotyping "white middle class" when the people who dressed up in racist stereotype were probably all white middle class wankers.

Guys this is the periphery of racism, it sustains racism and you guys are defending it. It means you're sick in the head.

[WeAreReborn]

You should stick to your own culture and stop contaminating others, whitey. No one is impressed.
Stick to your own culture? Fuck you. Culture is not exclusive to those born into it. So next time I am invited to Chinese New Year by my friend who is Chinese I should refuse because I am not Chinese? Apparently since I was not born in China nor had Chinese ancestors I cannot celebrate with a friend their culture. Instead, according to your logic, I will stick to MY cultural heritage and let that solely define me. You are defining people based on their race or cultural heritage and saying they should stick exclusively to that. That is racism pure and simple.

[thefinalmarch]

First off, shut your wonderbread face
I'll admit it, I chuckled reading this.

[kurr]

Wonderbread face.

Wauw. Seems pretty obvious to me...judging from this and other comments you are more than a little racist yourself there buddy boy.>
Hardly racist, whiteboi.
The fact of the matter remains that not only white people dress up in what you so aptly try to cast aside as racist in some obscene illicit transgression of cultural heritage. And your argument that people should stick to their own culture...seems oddly reminiscent of being the basis for ethnic and racialist theories.
Not really. This just comes from understanding colonialism and that the Western world, in general, is white supremacist. Once you finally wrap your head around this, it will all be much more clear to you. But hey, far be it from me to make a simple suggestion. Keep on pushing your theory of me being racist.

By some figment of your imagination you apparantly think that if some white kid paints their face black and hangs some bling bling around their neck they are mocking an entire culture simply by doing so. So in YOUR mind people wearing bling bling and are black represent the entire culture of black people. Which offcourse is racist bullshit. Since for anybody who had not got his mind on the everything is racist bandwagon...that is not a representation of an entire very heterogenous culture....which really does not exist as a homogenous entity the first place.
Let me break this down for you since I didnt realize that I was dealing with such overt idiocy. White people putting bling around their necks and painting their face black is playing on exactly how bourgeois culture treats young black men. Every time a black male is depicted of being obsessed with Rims and gold jewelry, you have no idea how many white people believe this to be an accurate representation of your average, young black male. You know how I know this? I'm half Black.You wouldn't know this (A) because you live in the fucking Netherlands and (B) because you're white. Your also drawing of your own experiences with local festivities which have little to no relevance with the topic.
o my...now tell me...what exactly is my culture?




whites....:rolleyes:

Since you lack common sense, I'll spell it out for you. That post has nothing to do with you.I'm amazed that I'm talking to Anarchists about this. Maybe I might have to rethink my tendency.....

[PhoenixAsh]

Oh that's right. I guess given the whole Zwarte Piet thing you kinda have a time-honored tradition of hellaciously fucked up festival costumes. It must really chap your ass that some folks have the gall to get offended by these other, far milder ones.

No what gets me offended is that there is a whole bunch of supposed left wing radicals in this thread lending support to some liberal campaign which tries to paint culture as something which is homogenous and preaches cultural seperation and exclusivity out of any form of context....and who somehow try their level best to paint some kid how dresses up as a geisha, paints their face black and dress as a rapper we see daily on MTV as somehow being the root cause and perpetuator of racial stereotype and therefore discrimination in a festival which is and always has been a mockery of society and is based on stereotypes of any kind without applying any form of context. Apparantly they want some sort of list of banned clothing which other cultures can not wear...

[#FF0000]

and who somehow try their level best to paint some kid how dresses up as a geisha, paints their face black and dress as a rapper we see daily on MTV as somehow being the root cause

People repeatedly said that it was not the root cause and made it clear that it doesn't need to be for it to be racist. Shut the fuck up if you aren't going to read what people are saying.

[PhoenixAsh]

No. No. Holy shit no. It is a caricature. It does not have to exist in reality. It almost never does. It is an amalgamation of all the negative stereotypes associated with a culture.

Jesus Fucking Christ you people are dense.

Right....because like I said:

Gangster rappers do not exist. Crips and Bloods do not exists. There was never once a Mexican who rode a mule wearing a poncho and a Sombrero. And there never was an Indian who wore a feathered head band. Nor were there any Geisha's.

The point is. No matter how much you talk about a caricature....a caricature is not racist in being a caricature. It is HOW that caricature is used which makes it racist.

[Robocommie]

No what gets me offended is that there is a whole bunch of supposed left wing radicals in this thread lending support to some liberal campaign which tries to paint culture as something which is homogenous and preaches cultural seperation and exclusivity out of any form of context....and who somehow try their level best to paint some kid how dresses up as a geisha, paints their face black and dress as a rapper we see daily on MTV as somehow being the root cause and perpetuator of racial stereotype and therefore discrimination in a festival which is and always has been a mockery of society and is based on stereotypes of any kind without applying any form of context. Apparantly they want some sort of list of banned clothing which other cultures can not wear...

Jesus, you really are thick.

Look man, there's a really long and fucked up history in this country of Darkie imagery and other ethnic charicatures, whether it's blackface and minstrel shows, or buck-toothed Tojo pictures and submissive Asian brides, or lazy Mexicans taking naps under cacti with big sombreros. These are fucked up caricatures which I, as an American leftist, am proud to say that we have gone a long way to making socially unacceptable, as they should be. Clearly however, we have a long way to go.

What does not fucking help us is people like you who come along and try and make this argument that culture is not something that should be exclusive - as if you're trying to make the fucked up argument that god-damn minstrel shows (or the modern American equivalent, the blackface hoodrat) is somehow a legitimate part of black culture which white people should feel welcome to share in!

It is frankly mind-blowing that you can't understand how this is a problem.

[#FF0000]

The point is. No matter how much you talk about a caricature....a caricature is not racist in being a caricature. It is HOW that caricature is used which makes it racist.

Yes and that caricature is used to attack people, e.g. the "dirty/lazy mexican" stereotype, e.g. the "welfare queen" stereotype.

[GatesofLenin]

I saved all this hassle and didn't dress up for halloween, how's that for an answer?

[Robocommie]

Right....because like I said:

Gangster rappers do not exist. Crips and Bloods do not exists. There was never once a Mexican who rode a mule wearing a poncho and a Sombrero. And there never was an Indian who wore a feathered head band. Nor were there any Geisha's.

Fucking hell. You are really insistent on missing the point, man. You know what movie you'd probably benefit from seeing? Spike Lee's Bamboozled.



The point is. No matter how much you talk about a caricature....a caricature is not racist in being a caricature. It is HOW that caricature is used which makes it racist.Would you care to cite a few examples of how caricatures can be used constructively and non-harmfully?

[PhoenixAsh]

Hardly racist, whiteboi.

NO...VERY racist...whatever the fuck you are.



Not really. This just comes from understanding colonialism and that the Western world, in general, is white supremacist. Once you finally wrap your head around this, it will all be much more clear to you. But hey, far be it from me to make a simple suggestion. Keep on pushing your theory of me being racist.

Well...you are racist. You use ethnic prejorative slurs....and you attack me on the basis of my ethnicity. Basically the very definition of racism.


Let me break this down for you since I didnt realize that I was dealing with such overt idiocy. White people putting bling around their necks and painting their face black is playing on exactly how bourgeois culture treats young black men. Every time a black male is depicted of being obsessed with Rims and gold jewelry, you have no idea how many white people believe this to be an accurate representation of your average, young black male. You know how I know this? I'm half Black.You wouldn't know this (A) because you live in the fucking Netherlands and (B) because you're white. Your also drawing of your own experiences with local festivities which have little to no relevance with the topic.

Well...since it is your own argument that since I am white I must therefore be very aware of the acurate racial depiction of black people it is a little bit stupid of you to then continue to argue that I wouldn't know this because I am white.

And I wasn't aware Halloween and Carnival had little relevance to the topic of Halloween costumes. Hmm...weird....seems to me that is pretty fucking relevant.

For an anarchist you argue a lot for the exclusivity of culture and national segregation of opinion. Interesting. You also seem to perpetuate a lot of racial perjorative slurs and opinions. So that shouldn't come as a total surprise.

Now what you say is racial steroetyp is being blasted at our societies through 24/7 rap music videoclips. Those rap clips do more than sustain what you called a "racial stereotype" than anything else. If a white kid dresses up emulating the behaviour depicted by...for example...Lil Wayne, Ice Cube, Snoop, Murder Mike, Du Rap etc....then somehow this becomes racist?

If some white kid dresses up in the stereotypical costume of cribs and bloods....we have them here too...thanx you for exporting!...then somehow this is racist? When I walk through city center The Hague I see these guys walking in the street. So when I would do that....dress up like one of those guys. Then somehow THAT is racist?

What a load of bull crap.

The only thing you are arguing is that your entire society is made up of people who have NO common sense, who need to be nany-stated through their lives, because apparantly...according to your arguments.,..they are unable to distinguish between a costume and an entire culture in their country.

Now if THAT is what you are arguing...then FINE. I agree completely. But don't blame it on the costumes...Blame it on the fact that Americans in y9our opinion see a guy in a caricature costume and then suddenly stop being intelligens creatures and stop thinking.




Since you lack common sense, I'll spell it out for you. That post has nothing to do with you.I'm amazed that I'm talking to Anarchists about this. Maybe I might have to rethink my tendency.....

You replied to MY post. You called me wonderbread face. HOW does that post have nothing to do with me...since it illustrates the continuation of the very same behaviour?

It is more than a little hypocritical for you to be outraged over some costume being racist while at the same time being very liberal with your ethnically perjorative language.

[PhoenixAsh]

Jesus, you really are thick.

Look man, there's a really long and fucked up history in this country of Darkie imagery and other ethnic charicatures, whether it's blackface and minstrel shows, or buck-toothed Tojo pictures and submissive Asian brides, or lazy Mexicans taking naps under cacti with big sombreros. These are fucked up caricatures which I, as an American leftist, am proud to say that we have gone a long way to making socially unacceptable, as they should be. Clearly however, we have a long way to go.

What does not fucking help us is people like you who come along and try and make this argument that culture is not something that should be exclusive - as if you're trying to make the fucked up argument that god-damn minstrel shows (or the modern American equivalent, the blackface hoodrat) is somehow a legitimate part of black culture which white people should feel welcome to share in!

It is frankly mind-blowing that you can't understand how this is a problem.

I am not trying to make that argument at all. What the argument I am making is is that there is no homogenous culture. Something which is not a hard concept to get and that costumes in and off themselves are not necessarilly racist or discriminatory....but that the context in which an induvidual uses the costumes determines that.

[Commissar Rykov]

I can't believe the amount of goddamn racism on fucking Revleft. Is this some kind of sick parody of Stormfront or are some of you people that fucking dense? I would froth in the mouth and have a stroke but I figure most of you aren't worth the effort. Though I am curious what you are doing on a Leftist Board if you have no problems with stereotypes, ethnic insensitivity and general asshattery.

[La Comédie Noire]

There's a long history in the United States of white people consuming black culture, sometimes it's thoughtful, sometimes it's... less than thoughtful. The fact that white people can pick and choose amongst different cultures to mock or praise should tell you something about the state of racism and imperialism today. It isn't just a case of people who "take themselves too seriously" it's an expression of power dynamics. A lot of the time people will use humor to release negative emotions they feel towards someone. I think the same principle can be applied to social groups.

[Robocommie]

I am not trying to make that argument at all. What the argument I am making is is that there is no homogenous culture. Something which is not a hard concept to get and that costumes in and off themselves are not necessarilly racist or discriminatory....but that the context in which an induvidual uses the costumes determines that.

Yeah, and the context of these costumes is pretty fucked up and demeaning. It's pretty weird that you're here saying culture is not homogenous, because that's exactly the fucking point of the campaign. It's against racist typecasting.

It's kinda fucked up to dress up in a big floppy sombrero and mustache and then say you're going as a "Mexican" as if that's what Mexicans are - it's essentialist and demeaning.

[PhoenixAsh]

Yeah, and the context of these costumes is pretty fucked up and demeaning. It's pretty weird that you're here saying culture is not homogenous, because that's exactly the fucking point of the campaign. It's against racist typecasting.

No the point of the campaign is trying to make the type cast appear as something which inherrently defines the culture according to the observer who complains....because if it wasn't the whole point of the campaign would be mood.

[Robocommie]

No the point of the campaign is trying to make the type cast appear as something which inherrently defines the culture according to the observer who complains....because if it wasn't the whole point of the campaign would be mood.

Dude, you're completely backwards on this shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH66x8TnX2s&feature=player_embedded

Go to 2:47 and you'll see this exact subject brought up and then answered.

Nobody is trying to say that you're not allowed to wear a sombrero because you're Dutch. Stop trying to make it about that. The whole point is that if you try and dress up as a Mexican caricature the way you could dress up as a Mummy or a Werewolf or something like that, as though Mexicans were something so easily stereotyped, then you're being a dick.

Because there is no such thing as a "typical Mexican" then there's no non-racist way to dress up like a "Mexican" for Halloween unless you wanted to dress up as a specific individual who happens to be Mexican... like say, Pancho Villa. Which would actually be pretty rad because Pancho Villa was an OG.

[ModelHomeInvasion]

Even if liberal identity politics is shitty and annoying, all I see from this thread are a bunch of white people being white. Do you even see what the costumes are?

Ignore the geisha for now. The first photo is a costume of an Arab with a bomb strapped to his chest--a terrorist, the kind of people that American society justifies killing in almost all forms of media. And real violence has been done to immigrants as a result of such legitimized hate speech. This breeds nothing but a culture of ignorance about the Middle East and Muslim world.

As for the third image, the black gangbanger:

http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/02/college_ghetto-themed_parties_the_awful_racist_idea_that_just_won t_die.html

The reason why something of a liberal ass college campaign exists about this issue is because of the history of this garbage in US colleges, with white people using the guise of celebration to demean and mock the African American struggle, Mexican farm laborers, and other socially marginalized groups. It doesn't take a genius to see that this is fucked up.
The only post in this thread that really matters (no disrespect to Robocommie and the other posters who have been combating the clear and obvious racism being defended in this thread).

In other words, Muslims and black people are usually capable of telling the difference between a joke (however humourless) and actual racism. Unfortunately the PC police mostly can't.
Thank God we have you here to speak to us on behalf of all Muslim and black people.

[ifeelyou]

RevLeft racism never stops. It never surprises me how many RevLeft members will do anything they can to disavowal one's own participation in racism. Of course crips and bloods exist; of course there have been Mexicans riding mules. WTF? The issue is that white people oftentimes disregard the feelings of people of color when it comes to certain topics, like the one of this thread, and actually fight for the right to be racist, like how certain revleft folks are doing here. It should be no surprise that a number of white people mock and exploit ethnic/racial culture through costumes such as those being discussed; it's been happening for a long, long time. Anyone critically attentive to racist behavior in the US knows this. Yet, instead of revleft members seeking to explore this topic in any real thoughtful way, there are outspoken people trying to minimize and shut down anyone who objects to these types of Halloween costumes. Please excuse me for being offended by certain racially charged costumes in a country that has severely abused people like Latinos and Blacks. I know some white people think it's a joke, but you're not the only people that matter. Your opinions and feelings aren't the only ones that matter.

And just because some of you pull the "I'm [insert ethnic/racial identity here] and don't understand why some people of color are upset" doesn't make things any better. You might make excuses for insensitive white people who are being racially irresponsible while they hide behind the whole "it's a joke" thing, but not everyone is as forgiving as people like you.

Why aren't revleft members complaining about how capitalist fucks are exploiting aspects of ethnic/racial culture, stereotypes, and struggle to profit during Halloween, such as was the case with Target and the sale of "illegal alien" costumes? Instead, a good number of you are fighting for the right to be insensitive and racist. WTH?


Right....because like I said:

Gangster rappers do not exist. Crips and Bloods do not exists. There was never once a Mexican who rode a mule wearing a poncho and a Sombrero. And there never was an Indian who wore a feathered head band. Nor were there any Geisha's.

The point is. No matter how much you talk about a caricature....a caricature is not racist in being a caricature. It is HOW that caricature is used which makes it racist.

[Hiero]

No the point of the campaign is trying to make the type cast appear as something which inherrently defines the culture according to the observer who complains....because if it wasn't the whole point of the campaign would be mood. Wow, you have really twisted and worked backwards on this one. Who would have thought, it was never the targets that were the victims of racism, but the perpetrators themsevles were the real victims of a sub racist plot lead by the fake victims of racism who were in fact racist themselves. So if a Black person says "Blackface is racist" they actually mean "Blackface is a true repsentation of Black people"?

Are you sure your not just a racist? Do you run a frat house?


The point is. No matter how much you talk about a caricature....a caricature is not racist in being a caricature. It is HOW that caricature is used which makes it racist.

And how are thoose caricature's being used in this instance?

[Manic Impressive]

As somebody who is not a Japanese woman, if a Japanese woman tells me that my geisha costume is inappropriate and offensive I am going to do the right thing, and defer to her judgement. That's what combatting privilege means to me.

I saw somebody put it this way:

If a gay person tell you you're being homophobic, if a person of color tells you you're being racist, if a woman tells you you're being a misogynist etc, you don't get defensive, you don't tell them they're over reacting, you stop, and you think about your privilege and you think about what you're doing, regardless of your intentions.
Good point, although their being offended is a subjective reaction. What if one Japanese person is offended by it and 50 aren't. Kitsune said that they saw nothing wrong with people dressing up as a Geisha does the opinion of the offended person trump the opinion of other people?

What is it they say? imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

[Manic Impressive]

Oh cool an authoritarian party who purges non whites from their ranks on the regular wants to talk about whiteness theory...
I'm not associated with the ISR but that is a good article. It's ironic that you want to blindly follow a theory created by the white intelligentsia.

[ZeroNowhere]

There is no way I could've possibly offended you especially consider my posts have nothing to do with you. You aren't white. So....moving along now...
My sensibilities, I mean.

[PhoenixAsh]

Dude, you're completely backwards on this shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH66x8TnX2s&feature=player_embedded

Go to 2:47 and you'll see this exact subject brought up and then answered.

Nobody is trying to say that you're not allowed to wear a sombrero because you're Dutch. Stop trying to make it about that. The whole point is that if you try and dress up as a Mexican caricature the way you could dress up as a Mummy or a Werewolf or something like that, as though Mexicans were something so easily stereotyped, then you're being a dick.

Because there is no such thing as a "typical Mexican" then there's no non-racist way to dress up like a "Mexican" for Halloween unless you wanted to dress up as a specific individual who happens to be Mexican... like say, Pancho Villa. Which would actually be pretty rad because Pancho Villa was an OG.

Thanx for posting the video. That explanation indeed changes the entire story of the campaign. Which I still think from a marketing and communication perspective is a nightmare.

And you perfectly adressed the point I was trying to make: not all instances of cultural swaps in costumes are racist or discriminatory and wether they are relies on context and intend.

So we agree.

[khad]

Thanx for posting the video. That explanation indeed changes the entire story of the campaign. Which I still think from a marketing and communication perspective is a nightmare.

And you perfectly adressed the point I was trying to make: not all instances of cultural swaps in costumes are racist or discriminatory and wether they are relies on context and intend.

So we agree.

So, let me get your argument right. If some party encourages white people to blacken up and wear grills and bling, it would racist to think that they are mocking African Americans as a whole because that would mean acknowledging a homogenized view of "black culture"--itself a racialist logic.

[PhoenixAsh]

Wow, you have really twisted and worked backwards on this one. Who would have thought, it was never the targets that were the victims of racism, but the perpetrators themsevles were the real victims of a sub racist plot lead by the fake victims of racism who were in fact racist themselves

I have not been arguing what you say here. Those are not my words.

What I say is they [seem to; from a marketing and communication perspective] operate from the same perspective of culture being a homogenous entity and they communicate through their posters a singular interpretation of all costumes which are "transgressing" cultural and ethnical boundraries without context or intent.

The point I was trying to make is that when somebody dresses up like for example, Malcom X and that person is white...it is IMO not racist. If somebody dresses up like Snoop or Dr Dre and that person is Mexican. That is IMO not racist.

It can be. But it depends on the context and the intent and does not warrant an umbrella label of racism and discrimination on the basis of how somebody dresses up alone.

Maybe this will better explain with an example:

Lets suppose I dress up like Lil Wayne. Obviously I do not look anything like Lil Wayne. So whatever I do to look like him will be a caricature....which I need to create an identifiable visual likeness. Now....consider this costume...in itself it is just a caricature.

If I go out like that...it is simply my intend dressing up like Lil Wayne. Some may recognize it and to others it may look like I have dressed up in a racial stereotype.

Now consider this costume in the following settings:

1). A party themed: Music stars.
2). A party themed: Ghetto thug

One is racist...the other isn't. But the costume is the same. In a general setting it depends who gets the costume and who doesn't.

[I have never dressed up like Lil Wayne by the way. But I have dressed up like Malcom X. Some got it...some just thouht I was a generic black person in a suit, funny cap and glasses....and some others thought I tried to mock black muslims. Some took offense, others didn't. Strangely enough....it was mostly white people taking offense.]

Before I watched the video Robocommie posted. The campaign communicated to me that if somebody transgresses cultural boundraries that is racist in and of itself. And that context and intent do not count. And that I do not agree with.

Now the video Robocommie posted explained that the campaign does not try to say this....so we are actually of the same opinion....because that was my entire point.

[PhoenixAsh]

So, let me get your argument right. If some party encourages white people to blacken up and wear grills and bling, it would racist to think that they are mocking African Americans as a whole because that would mean acknowledging a homogenized view of "black culture"--itself a racialist logic.

Khad, I already adressed this point earlier....and I stated


This does not negate the fact that these costumes can not be used in a racist way. Because quite obviously they can. A party focussing on some racial stereotype in an attempt to somehow portray an entire culture as being identified and defined by that stereotype is definately racist and discriminatory.

So I already said I agree with you on this and obviously the context of those parties is racist and therefore the costume is.

But a white guy, chinese guy, indian guy dressing up like a black persona, with which I mean a historic figure or representing an historic event, does not have to be racist and should not be viewed outside context and intent. And untill Robocommie posted his video that was the message the campaign seemd to communicate.

[Franz Fanonipants]

i was a dutch fascist for halloween i had a brown baby doll that i kicked around while i said i was saving it from the perils of mahometanism.

[Franz Fanonipants]

But a white guy, chinese guy, indian guy dressing up like a black persona, with which I mean a historic figure or representing an historic event, does not have to be racist and should not be viewed outside context and intent. And untill Robocommie posted his video that was the message the campaign seemd to communicate.

Comrade, do you even understand the kinds of historical events dealing with black people in this hemisphere that would NOT be considered racist to depict in halloween costume if you were white?

i can think of like being RUN DMC and even that's stretching it.

E: HOLY SHIT DID YOU SERIOUSLY DRESS UP AS MINSTREL SHOW MALCOLM X?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!!?

[Franz Fanonipants]

[I have never dressed up like Lil Wayne by the way. But I have dressed up like Malcom X. Some got it...some just thouht I was a generic black person in a suit, funny cap and glasses....and some others thought I tried to mock black muslims. Some took offense, others didn't. Strangely enough....it was mostly white people taking offense.]

this is fucking ridiculous

[kurr]

[I have never dressed up like Lil Wayne by the way. But I have dressed up like Malcom X. Some got it...some just thouht I was a generic black person in a suit, funny cap and glasses....and some others thought I tried to mock black muslims. Some took offense, others didn't. Strangely enough....it was mostly white people taking offense.]

So your essentially a reactionary libertarian who is trying to defend your individual right to wear blackface whenever you want to? Fuck you, dude.
And the fact that you offended people, it doesnt matter who they are, by your disgusting stunt should show you how fucked up it was. Judging by how xenophobic your country is, if you were around Leftists - by all purposes - you should've had your ass beaten for that.</p>
Actually, that would've been beneficial to your understanding of race and chauvinism. </p>

You make me sick.

[Robocommie]

Haha, blackface Malcolm X, wtf. I'm looking at my poster of the guy on my wall right now and I just don't know what to say to him.

Hindsight, I'm not sure if I have the eloquence to express why going as Malcolm X in black face is in exceptionally poor taste... It just is. Maybe you'd have to be American to "get it" - or maybe not. Either way, between this and saying ridiculous shit like sarcastically thanking "us" for "exporting" the Crips and the Bloods, I'm just going to say you're kind of a ridiculous dude and leave it at that.

[kurr]

Comrade, do you even understand the kinds of historical events dealing with black people in this hemisphere that would NOT be considered racist to depict in halloween costume if you were white?

Why are you calling this chauvinist &quot;comrade&quot;?? He is an overt reactionary who has no place on this forum. We need to openly denounce scum like him. He is the worst and a traitor to the Left. His allegiance lies within his own individualism and white supremacy. No, we need to break with disgusting creatins like Hindsight. We need to break with them and drive their name into the ground once and for all.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Haha, blackface Malcolm X, wtf. I'm looking at my poster of the guy on my wall right now and I just don't know what to say to him.

i was redface tecumsah. it was v. politically liberating.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Why are you calling this chauvinist &quot;comrade&quot;?? He is an overt reactionary who has no place on this forum. We need to openly denounce scum like him. He is the worst and a traitor to the Left. His allegiance lies within his own individualism and white supremacy. No, we need to break with disgusting creatins like Hindsight. We need to break with them and drive their name into the ground once and for all.

call it irony

[Robocommie]

i was redface tecumsah. it was v. politically liberating.

You were engaging in "heap big" cultural exchange.

[Franz Fanonipants]

You were engaging in "heap big" cultural exchange.

well i am kind of light so i need to put on brown face when i dress up as emiliano zapata so

[Robocommie]

well i am kind of light so i need to put on brown face when i dress up as emiliano zapata so

Dude, are you going to be offensive to Mexicans? That's so fucking meta.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Dude, are you going to be offensive to Mexicans? That's so fucking meta.

i am going to wear an anchor t-shirt

[Franz Fanonipants]

basically guys hindsight 20/20 is at about a mabel dodge luhan level of cultural discourse.

wearing other people's shit doesn't make you understand them.

[Rand-de-lis]

Speaking of racism, what is with all the racist statements against white people?

[Commissar Rykov]

Holy fuck Blackface Malcolm X? The fuck is going on here? I feel like I am eternally trapped in Stormfront. FUUUUUUUU

[Franz Fanonipants]

Speaking of racism, what is with all the racist statements against white people?

no mames wey

[Le Libérer]

Okay done. This thread has degenerated into complete absurdities and I doubt there's any chance of it turning around without trashing most of it.

The BA will be discussing the concerns this thread has brought up.

Thread closed.