The Production & Distribution of Goods Under Communism

[Peace Sells..]

i am looking for a good way to summarise this concept, particularly how it contrasts from production and distribution under capitalism. any help is much appreciated.

[GatesofLenin]

I like the idea, but it's not very popular here, of having groups setup that control the production and distribution of goods amongst the population. There would be no special pay for this service. Only this way would guarantee an equal share for all. For example, imagine a wheat board that makes sure that each farmer gets his fair compensation for growing the wheat for the whole population. This same board would make sure that each person gets equal share and that no one hordes and keeps the price of wheat stable. No market flunctuation that would enrich the few and starve the many. We can do the same with oil, sugar, various minerals, etc ...

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I like the idea, but it's not very popular here, of having groups setup that control the production and distribution of goods amongst the population. There would be no special pay for this service. Only this way would guarantee an equal share for all. For example, imagine a wheat board that makes sure that each farmer gets his fair compensation for growing the wheat for the whole population. This same board would make sure that each person gets equal share and that no one hordes and keeps the price of wheat stable. No market flunctuation that would enrich the few and starve the many. We can do the same with oil, sugar, various minerals, etc ...

Why keep the market prices at all? Labour vouchers is a preferential temporary measure during times of reorganisation and transition in advance of a final abolishing of all monetary measures when such is likely to come through. There will be no need to maintain prices of wheat, because this part is irrelevant to the compensation to the workers of the farm (farms ought to be organised on a large basis with workers working regular hours like in other fields, rather than the petit-bourgeois organisation of farming under capitalism, with farm owners often either doing a lot of their own work on the farm with little compensation or hiring low-paid temp workers, etc), since they are paid for their hours of work put in. Similarly people do not typically eat wheat raw.

An integrated structure would be required for efficient production and distribution, preferably as a part of a partially automated and computerised overarching planning organisation, connecting the various production facilities and in-puts and out-puts and the transfers of raw materials required for refined products (petroleum, bread, so on). Finished products would be delivered to local "shops" for common need goods, which there would be many of serving housing estates and whatnot, and more luxury goods and assets would be offered in larger "shops" which would be less common to afford a better variation of various goods (I also like the thought of having city-based pneumatic distribution systems connected to distribution centres for some of the distribution). Various computerised databases for goods sold/delivered (a lot of daily need goods would presumably be free, luxury items paid for by labour vouchers) would feed back information to the local councils at production centres (factories, etc) allowing these real time information on sales and thus efficient reflections of demand.

[GatesofLenin]

Why keep the market prices at all? Labour vouchers is a preferential temporary measure during times of reorganisation and transition in advance of a final abolishing of all monetary measures when such is likely to come through. ...

You keep the market prices because your country needs to deal with other countries around the world as well. Imagine the USSR having a boom-crop one year, you telling me the collectives wouldn't agree to sell the excess to some Western country?

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

You keep the market prices because your country needs to deal with other countries around the world as well. Imagine the USSR having a boom-crop one year, you telling me the collectives wouldn't agree to sell the excess to some Western country?

Collectives? I hope they aren't anything like kolhozy in which case they are a step backward in the proletarianisation of farming (in the Soviet form, it essentially made for land-tied peasantry in a revolting pastiche of feudal relations).

I thought we were talking about under at the very least after a successful revolution, and a revolution would only be successfully complete after it is global in scope, because the corruptions that result from things like dealing with and being messed with by further existing capitalist countries (imply single-nation state revolution or something of the sort). Even so there are still better ways to organise than using internal market mechanisms for internal trade (artificially keeping internal wheat prices high to make sure farm workers get good wages will make food expensive or require subsidies, creating a problem that lead to some problems in countries like Poland during the 'socialist' times). Thus such should be reserved for external (foreign) trade only.

Nevertheless, since the OP asked "under communism", at the very least I think we should be speaking about after a successful revolution, and that cannot come about as long as capitalism lingers in any corner of the earth, as long as there is any hint of "peaceful coexistence".

[GatesofLenin]

Collectives? I hope they aren't anything like kolhozy in which case they are a step backward in the proletarianisation of farming (in the Soviet form, it essentially made for land-tied peasantry in a revolting pastiche of feudal relations).

I thought we were talking about under at the very least after a successful revolution, and a revolution would only be successfully complete after it is global in scope, because the corruptions that result from things like dealing with and being messed with by further existing capitalist countries (imply single-nation state revolution or something of the sort). Even so there are still better ways to organise than using internal market mechanisms for internal trade (artificially keeping internal wheat prices high to make sure farm workers get good wages will make food expensive or require subsidies, creating a problem that lead to some problems in countries like Poland during the 'socialist' times). Thus such should be reserved for external (foreign) trade only.

Nevertheless, since the OP asked "under communism", at the very least I think we should be speaking about after a successful revolution, and that cannot come about as long as capitalism lingers in any corner of the earth, as long as there is any hint of "peaceful coexistence".

I understand what you're saying but human nature will be human nature and even under a full communist system, you will have people that will try to horde (like capitalists). This is why I mentioned the idea of setting up "oversee committees" like the USSR had with the farm collectives. Any troublemakers will be dealt with.

[robbo203]

I understand what you're saying but human nature will be human nature and even under a full communist system, you will have people that will try to horde (like capitalists). This is why I mentioned the idea of setting up "oversee committees" like the USSR had with the farm collectives. Any troublemakers will be dealt with.


Hoarding presupposes shortages and the general point about communism is that it presupposes the productive capacity to render shortages superfluous as well a transformed consciousness and value system whereby individuals understand and accept fully the the implications and the operational rules of the new society they have brought into being.

I dont think there can be much doubt that that productive capacity already exists;its just that it is constantly prevented from being realised by capitalism itself which limits and directs output according to what people can afford to pay rather than what they need. Most of the economic acitivity associated with running the capitalist money system is, in fact, completely socially useless from the standpoint of meeting human needs but essential nevertheless to the maintenance of capitalism itself (e.g. banking, pay departments, tax collectors etc etc). The huge amounts of manpower and resources tied up in such activities will be released and made available for socially useful production under communism

All that we are really lacking at present is the mass consciousness and desire to make communism happen

[GatesofLenin]

Hoarding presupposes shortages ...
All that we are really lacking at present is the mass consciousness and desire to make communism happen

Hoarding doesn't always require shortages to be present. If people have a chance to pull a fast one over their fellow man, they will, it's human nature. This is why I say we require a governing body to supervise and guarantee equality at the different industries of a state like oil, food production, energy, rail, etc ...

[robbo203]

Hoarding doesn't always require shortages to be present. If people have a chance to pull a fast one over their fellow man, they will, it's human nature. This is why I say we require a governing body to supervise and guarantee equality at the different industries of a state like oil, food production, energy, rail, etc ...

In what sense would is be possible for people to "pull a fast one over their fellow man" in communism? What would be the point? Everyone has free and unmediated access to the things that they need in communism. You go into a distribution point pick up that box of breakfast cereal that you wanted and take it home. Easey peasey. Why stuff your pantry or larder with more boxes of cereal than you reasonably consume in a week or maybe a month? There will always be more in the distribution point when you run out

But I still dont understand where "pulling a fast one" over your fellow man comes into the picture here. How does hoarding enable you to do this? If anything it cripples and burdens you by unnecessarily filling up the living space of your home with cereal boxes most of which will unavoidably be well beyond their "use by" date. Are you intending to sell of the cereal boxes to your neighbours at a premum price by collecting together as many as you can under your roof? By "cornering the market" so to speak?

Except, of course, there wont be a market any more and such a ruse is more likely to a prompt a sense of pity and concern from your neighbours when they come round to assist you to fill the skip with all those unwanted boxes , not to mention help arrange that desparately needed appointment with the counsellor to discuss your recurring delusional/adjustment problems with coping with life in a free society

[GatesofLenin]

In what sense would is be possible for people to "pull a fast one over their fellow man" in communism? What would be the point? Everyone has free and unmediated access to the things that they need in communism. You go into a distribution point pick up that box of breakfast cereal that you wanted and take it home. Easey peasey. Why stuff your pantry or larder with more boxes of cereal than you reasonably consume in a week or maybe a month? There will always be more in the distribution point when you run out

But I still dont understand where "pulling a fast one" over your fellow man comes into the picture here. How does hoarding enable you to do this? If anything it cripples and burdens you by unnecessarily filling up the living space of your home with cereal boxes most of which will unavoidably be well beyond their "use by" date. Are you intending to sell of the cereal boxes to your neighbours at a premum price by collecting together as many as you can under your roof? By "cornering the market" so to speak?

Except, of course, there wont be a market any more and such a ruse is more likely to a prompt a sense of pity and concern from your neighbours when they come round to assist you to fill the skip with all those unwanted boxes , not to mention help arrange that desparately needed appointment with the counsellor to discuss your recurring delusional/adjustment problems with coping with life in a free society

Without supervision, you open all sorts of actions (theft, black market) that are contrary to true socialism/equality. It's nice to dream of a world where each man looks after another and makes sure they are properly fed, housed, etc... but this is the real world. For communism/socialism to actually work, you need to setup unions/co-ops/assemblies/whatever you want to call it, to keep your fellow man honest and to keep the system honest. This is the last time I'm gonna answer this. This is my point of view, I respect yours so I ask the same.

[Rooster]

Without supervision, you open all sorts of actions (theft, black market) that are contrary to true socialism/equality. It's nice to dream of a world where each man looks after another and makes sure they are properly fed, housed, etc... but this is the real world.

The point is, those things would be pointless to do. Why would someone go to a black market dealer for some goods when they can go to a free distribution point? What's the point of selling stolen televisions when you can just go to the television store and pick one up for free?


For communism/socialism to actually work, you need to setup unions/co-ops/assemblies/whatever you want to call it, to keep your fellow man honest and to keep the system honest. This is the last time I'm gonna answer this. This is my point of view, I respect yours so I ask the same.I don't disagree that production has to be organised but it should be organised along socially concious lines and not just enforced. I don't get where people have to honest comes from when it would be an impossibility in the first place to use dishonesty to personal advantage.

[robbo203]

Without supervision, you open all sorts of actions (theft, black market) that are contrary to true socialism/equality. It's nice to dream of a world where each man looks after another and makes sure they are properly fed, housed, etc... but this is the real world. For communism/socialism to actually work, you need to setup unions/co-ops/assemblies/whatever you want to call it, to keep your fellow man honest and to keep the system honest. This is the last time I'm gonna answer this. This is my point of view, I respect yours so I ask the same.


Dont get me wrong - there's nothing personal about my criticising your point of view and there is no need to take it personally. It is just a point of view and like any point of view ( mine included) needs to be subjected to the utmost ruthless criticism. We develop our ideas through criticism and not by agreeing to disagree which is an excuse for sterility.

Theft and the black market are certainly contrary to socialism but they presuppose that socialism does not yet exist because the material conditions that would enable socialism to exist, do not exist. Above all the productive capacity that renders scarcity and the need for a market obsolete.

The black market can only operate in the absence of "socialism" - or "communism" if you prefer. How can one offer priced goods for a sale on a black market when, in communism, those goods would be available for free for individuals to take according to their self determined needs? Priced goods cannot possibly outcompete or crowd out free goods. Given the choice, a rational individual would choose the latter over the former every time. With what would such an individual purchase these black market goods anyway, given the discontinuation of wage labour? Barter? But why would the hypothetical seller or buyer of these goods want to engage in a black market transaction when what they respectively want could be obtained for free in free access communism?

No ,there cannot be the slightest chance of a market of any kind surviving a socialist/communist revolution. The society that it will bring into being will kill off the market completely. Theft and therefore the huge bulk of what we call "crime", will also be made meaningless and pointless with the institutionalisation of free access communism. So too would the need for greed and the craving for status based on the conspicuous consumption of material wealth. The only way left for us to acquire the respect and esteem of our fellows in such a society would be through what we put back into society and not what we took out of it

This is not some wishy washy idealistic dreamworld that is being posited here. It is based on a solid hard-edged materialist analysis of society and human berhaviour. It is within our grasp given a sufficient consciousness and desire to make it a reality

[Peace Sells..]

so what about the production and distribution of goods aside from food and other necessities? what about clothes, media, entertainment, gasoline, knapsacks, bicycles? are they to be phased out of society, or will they be freely produced and distributed as well as everything else?