turkish fascists attack kurdish center amsterdam

[Sasha]

after a big suposedly anti-PKK protest today in amsterdam dominated by the fascist greywolves several hundred greywolves attacked a kurdish center, kids where inside the center when more than a hundred people tried to enter it.
lots of damage, some injured, police intervened and despersed the attackers, strong rumours gunshot where fired but wheter this was done by cops, greywolves or kurdish defenders is completely unclear.
neighboorhood squatters are offering to help with the further defence of the building.

mainstream media reports: http://www.at5.nl/artikelen/70248/rellen-bij-turks-protest, http://www.at5.nl/artikelen/70253/turkse-betogers-naar-vondelpark-gestuurd

pictures of the rally with lots of fascist symbols: http://www.indymedia.nl/nl/2011/10/79393.shtml

[Rusty Shackleford]

How big is the Expat fascist turkish community? Also, is that Ataturk on the flag?

[Sasha]

estimates about 10 years ago where that the dutch greywolves front organisation had about 30.000 members making it the bigest fascist organisation in the netherland (http://afa.home.xs4all.nl/alert/engels/greyw.html, http://afa.home.xs4all.nl/alert/engels/index.html#wolves, http://afa.home.xs4all.nl/comite/index.html), also since the greywolves are under heavy scrutiny by the german secret service lots of german greywolves tend to come here to party confrences and demonstrations.

note though that we have about half a milion people from turkish descent here and among those only the very liberal and left-wing dominated alawi already have more than 100.000 practioners. also the about 70.000 kurdish in the nethelands are offcially counted as among those half mil.

[Agathor]

Fascist immigrants? :confused:

[His Dudeness]

I have been there an hour ago to see how the situation was, *bleeeep* I didn't here anything about gunshots btw. A large group of PKK supporters (around 300-350) were there. The PKK supporters that were held hostige in the Kurdish center for refusing ro show their ID's to the police are released now and everyone is gone. That's all I know.

[Ravachol]

estimates about 10 years ago where that the dutch greywolves front organisation had about 30.000 members making it the bigest fascist organisation in the netherland

Keep in mind though that 'membership' is a broad term when it comes to the Grey Wolves. They're not really an organized movement, more of a broad term for various ultra-nationalists affiliated to the MHP or BPP.

In fact, many self-proclaimed Grey Wolves here in the Netherlands are hardly political at all, being heavily involved in organised crime with some Turkish youngsters looking up to them in the same way people would 'look up' to the Bloods and Crips in the USA. I often hear a lot of 'sentiment' for the Grey Wolves amongst Turkish youth who at the same time display pretty liberal attitudes and no overt ultra-nationalism. Sometimes it seems to be more of a gang thing.

When they get seriously involved though, things can easily spin out of control as they seem to appear out of nowhere to have violent confrontations, like the shooting of a Dev Sol member by Grey Wolves in '96 or the fatal stabbing of a Kurd in The Hague.

[Sasha]

a medic who was one the scene just after the attack to help the injured got told by a cop that he needed to leave because acording to her "those people inside could perish"(creperen in dutch), during the attack there where laguage and guitar lessons for kids going on, kids got peppersprayed by the cops, shots where fired by the fash into the building, a women got threathend by a cop on gunpoint etc etc

also @ his dudeness, not every kurdish person is a PKK supporter per se, it doesnt help them to label them as such.

[Ravachol]

Witness statement from Indymedia (http://indymedia.nl/nl/2011/10/79478.shtml):



First, I find it quite difficult to write an objective report. This fact-report has been verified by multiple people, whom were inside as well as outside the social center. During the attack and after the attack of the fascist grey wolves.

Arround 16:30 I received a phonecall frome someone inside the attacked Kurdish Center, where there were victims caused by the attacks of the Grey Wolves, with the question whether I wanted to provide medical assistance. When I arrived I found a compounded area with police and one ambulance. The police was busy with getting more police and chaos reigned on the street.

The police walked around in bullet/knife proof vests and directed everyone away. Because I practise a medical occupation, I was able to show some medical-papers and tell them I was there to provide medical assistance. The police officer in command was asked and he thought it was a good idea. Halfway down the street I was called back by 3 police officers. Again I told my story. They informed me this wasn't going to happen. Above all there were two "GGD'ers" (healthcare workers) on the site. When I told them that this seemed a bit low, the officer with the number 30531 said "I rather let them suffer" ("deze mensen liever liet creperen").

At this moment I was directed away. To shorten the story: I had contact with a diverse group of people inside
and Kurdish people outside, who escaped the attack or came to pick up their children or husbands. Here follows a report with facts that I double checked and/or have seen with my own eyes:

1. People inside have stated there where gunshots fired, this is acknowledged by a very thorough forensic research by the police
2. Women, Children en men that where inside (for guitar-lessons and italian-lessons) where peppersprayed by the police and did not receive medical attention for this
3. Different women and children have been bitten by policedogs, again medical attention was either late or non existing.
4. Instead of protection, a number of times they have been told: "You have nothing to say here and you have to show your ID-cards" ('Jullie hebben niets te vertellen en jullie moeten jullie paspoorten trekken') and were completely searched.
5. Police stated a number of times that they had not the will or the capacity to protect the Kurds.
6. The people in the attacked building have been kept hostage 14:00 to 20:30 by the police in the building in a very threatening situation.
7. A concerned mother was dragged by her hairs across the Surinamesquare (Surinameplein) to be released on the other side with the words: "You have no reason to be here" ('Je hebt hier niets te zoeken').
8. A Kurdish women has been directed away by a policeofficer in uniform with a gun aimed on her head.
9. The people that where inside where constantly asked to show their ID. As far as I know at the moment of writing, they did not show their ID.

At the moment of writing the numbers of Kurdish people is growing in large numbers, this is due to safety conceirns.
Note: After checking, before the attack only language and guitar lessons were given in the Kurdish-center.

[Ravachol]

Another witness statement:



i witnessed the attack of the gray wolves from the beginning (16.00), for half hour

Today Sunday the 23rd of October i was directly present at the attack of the Gray Wolves against the Kurdisch Centrum of Stadionkade, Amsterdam.

I'm a musician and since today i 'm in charge of giving music lessons there. I found myself at ease, having been offered to eat a meal,
as soon as the lesson was finished.

I left the Centrum at about 16.00. I noticed a demo blocking Overtoom, coming towards the bridge on asmtelveensweg, went to see: as soon as i found out that it was a "turkish-flags demo" escorted by a police car (didn't really got what was about) i thought to go back to the Centrum and ask if maybe they wouldn't have been soon the target of the demo. Why? because in the centrum i watched some news (kurdish tv)
with tanks on the streets of some kurdish city.

A man at the door didn't understand my question, but he realized soon what was going on, as soon as the demo was approaching. In a short while the first demontstrant, a very young guy, shouted against the man. The man of the centrum closed the door. I kept asking what was going on to many demostrant, no one replied.

Soon many demostrants kicked the door, than a first big stone crashed the glass which was part of it. I stood at one meter from the door. Kept a due distance, not to be killed by the street stones which were continuously thrown . A stone smashed the rear screen of a car too. A garbage bin was bumped against the door. After three minutes all the glasses of the door where broken by stones.

At that time the police intervened, from a side road, to chase away the demostrants. The turkish flags people quite slowly moved back towards the bridge. When the street was clear for about fourty meters the people inside the centrum begun to exit. Soon the police pushed them back in, with knuppels and pepper gas. I guess it was pepper gas because a fine drop fell into my eye, even though i was at a distance of at least 6 meters. Nothing harmful, but I decided to leave. On the way a young demostrant with a turkish flag on his back explained me the reason of the manifestation.

Unfortunately i don't know anything about the facts happened afterward!

[Ravachol]

Some video footage of the protest by the Grey Wolves:

aFO0Ad2wRj8

and video footage of the clashes:

X25dukCobTc
OBQf1fYEik8
07zGwYSESoE

In the last video the uploader is talking about a 'Kurdish restaurant' but that's bullshit, it's the Kurdish centre but the uploader is most likely some Dutch guy who thinks every immigrant runs a restaurant :rolleyes:

A protest by the same nationalists on the same day in Rotterdam, it's quite possible there's a lot of people there that aren't Grey Wolves but only mildly nationalist Turks protesting against the PKK but I don't understand a word of what they're saying :p

rR32Pft2Hzk
_EEWvYtRTZ4

[Devrim]

A protest by the same nationalists on the same day in Rotterdam, it's quite possible there's a lot of people there that aren't Grey Wolves but only mildly nationalist Turks protesting against the PKK but I don't understand a word of what they're saying :p

They are reading through the list of names of people who died in the PKK attack. I wouldn't say that it is necessarily grey wolves though they may well be there.

This clip from one of Sunday's Süperlig matches shows the same thing, but on a much more massive scale. We were sitting in the pub at the time and it was quite frightening:

http://youtu.be/MoTl2eOPSYQ

Devrim

[Ravachol]

They are reading through the list of names of people who died in the PKK attack. I wouldn't say that it is necessarily grey wolves though they may well be there.

This clip from one of Sunday's Süperlig matches shows the same thing, but on a much more massive scale. We were sitting in the pub at the time and it was quite frightening:

http://youtu.be/MoTl2eOPSYQ

Devrim

I can imagine, it looks really massive. I don't know if that's the case everywhere but over here in the Netherlands there's quite a bit of support for the Grey Wolves amongst some segments of the Turkish youth, more often than not because of their 'street creds' and 'tough guy image' but still.

[Vanguard1917]

It always amuses me when i hear about Turkish motherland-loving lads raised in Britain sign documents at the Turkish embassy in London to dodge military service at their beloved country. Waving a flag in Western Europe and making shadow-puppet signs (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7uBUZmuy_tE/TToqITposfI/AAAAAAAAB3E/VbjZiLkMYN8/s1600/mhp-bozkurt-sign-2.jpg) with your hands (and perhaps ganging up on a few Kurds) is a valid patriotic alternative, i guess. So much for fighting for your nation with your last drop of blood...

[Red Commissar]

I've been trying to find some commentary on this issue I can read, since google translate is not the best way to go and I don't have a native Dutch speaker to help me. What I get unfortunately is anti-immigrant shit and "Islamification of Europe" nutbags showing this as an example of why Muslims are bad.

Are there any continuation of demonstrations? Has it provoked a response from people there?

[Devrim]

I can imagine, it looks really massive. I don't know if that's the case everywhere but over here in the Netherlands there's quite a bit of support for the Grey Wolves amongst some segments of the Turkish youth, more often than not because of their 'street creds' and 'tough guy image' but still.

Yes, there is in Turkey. The MHP is not a small groups, b8ut the third largest political party in the country. with over five million votes in the last election (13%). There are also smaller parties, like the BBP, who still pick up hundreds of thousands of votes.


I've been trying to find some commentary on this issue I can read, since google translate is not the best way to go and I don't have a native Dutch speaker to help me. What I get unfortunately is anti-immigrant shit and "Islamification of Europe" nutbags showing this as an example of why Muslims are bad.

Are there any continuation of demonstrations? Has it provoked a response from people there?

It has been covered in the Turkish left wing dailies. I would imagine that there may have been some coverage in the Turkish English language papers. Today's Zaman (http://www.todayszaman.com/mainAction.action) and Hürriyet Daily News (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/).

Remember though that basically what has happened here is a reflection of what is going on in Turkey, and there will certainly be coverage of the events here.

Devrim

[Sasha]

I've been trying to find some commentary on this issue I can read, since google translate is not the best way to go and I don't have a native Dutch speaker to help me. What I get unfortunately is anti-immigrant shit and "Islamification of Europe" nutbags showing this as an example of why Muslims are bad.

Are there any continuation of demonstrations? Has it provoked a response from people there?

there have been a lot more low level intensity things happening, death threats and broken windows at other kurdisch centers, stones thrown at an kurdish picket at the embassy and such. also some retaliation attacks on MHP controlled mosques and shops etc etc but all in all the kurdish organisations seem to have more control over their hot headed youth.
from out of the the police and the (very turkish vote depended) labour controlled city government there have been a sickening blaming the victim campaign launched, all the people being prosecuted after the attack are all kurdish defenders of the center also the subsidies of the center have been cut already some time ago but now it leaked in the media that this was because of supposed ties with the PKK.
there is lot of pooha made about reconciliation talks between turkish and kurdish organizations to stop the violence but since the turkish organizations involved in the talks are all progressive groups like DIDF and the greywolves front organization is notably absent its all pretty pointless.

was the organization of the demo the 23th still at least in name non-grey wolves, for today greywolves youth threaten a new demonstration with explicit calls for massive violence, lots of kurdish people are in town to defend their places so stuff could get nasty again but we will see, there has been pretty good, open and usefull (organizing good lawyers etc) support from the leftist/autonomous movement which is being highly appreciated by the kurds and returns some of my trust in the scene.

[Sasha]

short update about what happend yesterday lots of people showed up to protect the kurdish centre, cops/city goverment banned people from congregating at museum plein (the place where again the fascist demonstration was supposed to start) but strangely not at the surinamerplein that is around the corner of the kurdish centre, lots of small groups of turkish kids did a half arsed attemped again to storm the centre again but when the defenders emptied in to the street showing we meant business the cops decided that this time it might be better to put an decisive end to the disturbances and moved in, this time also against the fash.
hopefully things will quite down now for our kurdish comrades and we now can build uppon the bonds re-established between dutch an kurdish progressives, between leninists and anarchists