Gaddafi's death is a victory for Imperialism

[ModelHomeInvasion]

Seeing as the Libyan rebels are a bunch of malicious, Al-Qaeda motherfuckers who have been terrorizing and murdering black Africans throughout this entire ordeal, consider me not stoked at all about Gaddafi's death. The Imperialists are cheering.

An interesting yet somewhat critical article (so try to ignore the fabrications):
What does Gaddafi's death mean for Africa?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15392189


A grandson of Nelson Mandela is named Gadaffi - a sign of how popular the late Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi once was in South Africa and many other African countries. After Mr Mandela became South Africa's first black president in 1994, he rejected pressure from Western leaders - including then-US President Bill Clinton - to sever ties with Col Gaddafi, who bankrolled his election campaign."Those who feel irritated by our friendship with President Gaddafi can go jump in the pool," he said.

Col Gaddafi pushed for a United States of Africa to rival the US and the European Union (EU). "We want an African military to defend Africa. We want a single currency. We want one African passport," he said.

Gaddafi fought and died in his homeland and never ran away.

[aristos]

Gaddafi fought and died in his homeland and never ran away.

Very short-sighted of him. He would have been of much more use as a rallying point later on, when the new regime completely dismantles the welfare state, than a humiliated martyr.

[DarkPast]

Very short-sighted of him. He would have been of much more use as a rallying point later on, when the new regime completely dismantles the welfare state, than a humiliated martyr.

I think he just ran out of "friends", so he had nowhere to run to - had he tried he would just have been arrested and handed over to the NTC. That's what happens when the global capitalist elite deems you've outlived your usefulness.

Guess he might have saved his life, but I guess he didn't want to spend the rest of his life in jail.

[scarletghoul]

I think he just ran out of "friends", so he had nowhere to run to - had he tried he would just have been arrested and handed over to the NTC. That's what happens when the global capitalist elite deems you've outlived your usefulness.

Guess he might have saved his life, but I guess he didn't want to spend the rest of his life in jail.He could easily have gone to Venezuela, zimbabwe, cuba, etc

[Red.Jack.Philly]

If Gaddafi was such an enemy of imperialism, why was he so shocked when NATO intervened on the side of the rebels? It's because he did everything he could to appeal to the imperialist powers only to have his back stabbed by them because he was such an unreliable ally.

And when his people, inspired by the events in Tunisia and Egypt, called for his ouster, he tried to murder them. I'm glad this rat bastard is dead.

Good riddance, Gaddafi (a friend of capital, imperialism, and an enemy of the workers.)

[Void]

Very short-sighted of him. He would have been of much more use as a rallying point later on, when the new regime completely dismantles the welfare state, than a humiliated martyr.

Old man Gaddafi, he made a sensible long speech as we all remember. The famous Zenga Zenga speech where he said he would die in the country where his father died. He went to his birth-town and joined the last defence there. Such characters occur either in novels or very rarely in history. He had some kind of special character, even very respectable. He knew he would be tortured but he could not flee, this is the psychology of these characters.

Muammar Gaddafi visit to Russia : he lays a wreath at the tomb of the unknown solider in Moscow:

9MkMuPWPXB4

One of the deaths I have seen on earth which made me sad, especially such a disastrous end. Gaddafi's was very touching.


I think he just ran out of "friends", so he had nowhere to run to - had he tried he would just have been arrested and handed over to the NTC. That's what happens when the global capitalist elite deems you've outlived your usefulness.

Guess he might have saved his life, but I guess he didn't want to spend the rest of his life in jail.

His eldest son fled to Algeria. Moammar Gaddafi was invited to Venezuela, Algeria and other couple of countries. He had plenty of places to run away all the time.

[aristos]

Could be, but I thought he still could hide out in another African country with the silent approval of one of his former buddies.

[aristos]

I'm not denying it was heroic, just that it probably was not terribly helpful.
But then again the way he handled the situation since the revolts started was not wise either.

[Tim Cornelis]

Gaddafi fought and died in his homeland and never ran away.

How is it that people keep using this as an argument? I know another funny guy with a funny little mustache who fought and died for his homeland and never ran away. It. Means. Jack. Shit.

[Jose Gracchus]

Since Jacobinism and Bonapartism in their original vintage isn't available nowadays, you have the reactionary romantic populism of the Marcyites, Brezhnevites, and Maoists. Remember, its about hero-martyrs and "the people", never the proletariat as a class, and value-production.

[Yugo45]

How is it that people keep using this as an argument? I know another funny guy with a funny little mustache who fought and died for his homeland and never ran away. It. Means. Jack. Shit.

I am yet to see an argument made by you which doesn't involve Hitler..

[RadioRaheem84]

How is it that people keep using this as an argument? I know another funny guy with a funny little mustache who fought and died for his homeland and never ran away. It. Means. Jack. Shit.

So ridiculous. Why must you insert this idiotic comparison?

[Jose Gracchus]

It is a totally lucid analogy; people make it sound like any eccentric despot who "goes down with the ship" against imperialists is some great martyr. He is pointing out that does not mean shit, the real political content is what matters. Its a perfectly parody to deflate the misdirect the hot air balloon of hero-martyrdom the OP was trying to float over Gaddhafi's ugly corpse.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Whilst one cannot argue against the fact that the event of his death was as despotic and unwarranted as many of the similar things that his own regime perpetrated, and that he did indeed fight somewhat bravely until the very end, in his hometown, I don't think his death is a massive victory for imperialism. In fact, i'm sure that the entire Arab Spring is a defeat for imperialism, in the sense that they can no longer get away with supporting the likes of the Saudis or Bahrain and their political dictatorship, simply for trade opportunities. Though undoubtedly the NATO-backed rebels will go on to establish new economic ties with imperial capital, I imagine that the Arab Spring - and Libya in particular - is probably viewed by much of capital as an annoyance, given the economic troubles closer to home.

Though, after all of what i've said, I do believe that the massive NATO intervention in Libya has been partially motivated by revenge, for what Qaddafi did/supported/financed during the 80s, before he became an imperial puppet himself.

And yeah, his death is a war crime and, though I haven't shed a tear that he's gone, it was fucking horrific that a 69 year old man should be treated in such a way at the end.

[Tim Cornelis]

Remember when Gadaffi supported the Revolutionary United Front in order to claim some of the resources of Sierra Leone and Liberia?

That doesn't sound like imperialism at all.

[Soldier of life]

Remember when Gadaffi supported the Revolutionary United Front in order to claim some of the resources of Sierra Leone and Liberia?

That doesn't sound like imperialism at all.

Remember when he supported the IRA, the Sandanistas, the New Jewel Movement and the ANC, kicked the colonialists of Libya, the imperialists out of Wheelus Field, changed currency and redistributed wealth, subsidised housing and utilities, helped bring Libyan living standards and public services to the best levels on the continent, no?

Gaddafi was far, far from perfect, but he was far more complex than a Western imperialist lackey like Mubarek, as some people are trying to paint him here. Of course he doesn't precisely fit into the lovely, cuddly desires of the far left, but guess what, very few do in the real world.

But sure all we gotta do is proclaim our abstract support for the Libyan 'workers' (even though we don't support what the workers think or do, essentially we support them in knowing better than them) and everything is rosy. Never mind such tedious matters as the raping of Libya now by imperialism and the crashing of living standards for the average Libyan.

[Tim Finnegan]

Remember when he supported the IRA, the Sandanistas, the New Jewel Movement and the ANC, kicked the colonialists of Libya, the imperialists out of Wheelus Field, changed currency and redistributed wealth, subsidised housing and utilities, helped bring Libyan living standards and public services to the best levels on the continent, no?

Gaddafi was far, far from perfect, but he was far more complex than a Western imperialist lackey like Mubarek, as some people are trying to paint him here. Of course he doesn't precisely fit into the lovely, cuddly desires of the far left, but guess what, very few do in the real world.

Remember when Boney supported United Irishmen and kicked the Bourbons out of Spain? "Complexity", dear comrade, is a defence which only extends so far.

[Soldier of life]

Remember when Boney supported United Irishmen and kicked the Bourbons out of Spain? "Complexity", dear comrade, is a defence which only extends so far.

To reduce Gaddafi to just another imperialist-backed dictator akin to Ben-Ali and Mubarak isn't the full picture though is it. He WAS more complex than that, his past illustrates this markedly, and it's that complexity that made him a totally unreliable client.

Incidentally, pardon if I have missed it, but I haven't seen much mention of the UN/US 90s sanctions on Libya that played more than a small role in bringing Gaddafi out of the cold and into the warm embrace of Western imperialists. What do people think of this? Or do ye even disagree with the premise of it being a significant factor in Gaddafi's love affair with the West.

[Iron Felix]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BiDoydV25Vk/TeG0KQmHF7I/AAAAAAAAAQI/_rCkxOFtS00/s1600/gaddafi%2Bmandela%2B1.jpg

[agnixie]

I seemed to recall none of the "THE NTC IS THE PRIME EVIL" crowd believed that we should lionize Gaddafi. I guess I was misled. So, I guess Gaddafi's green book stopped being fascist tripe? I guess it goes well with Juche.

[Jose Gracchus]

The sad thing this makes me think of will be if semi-Gaddafist relicts will end up being the local "left" opposition.

[tir1944]

How exactly is his Green book fascist,pray tell?

[Forward Union]

The Rebels were nothing more than Imperialist Contras, a numerically inferior group, lead by opportunist members of Gadaffis government, overthrowing a quasi-socialist state which had managed to reduce poverty to 6% and had the best Human Development Index in all of Africa. They want to now replace the former secularism with Sharia, privatise Libyas oil and abolish free healthcare and social housing. They are scum. In fact, the UN were preparing to decorate Gadaffis Libya with an award for progress in the area of Human Rights, while Amnesty international are now having to condemn the NTC for the mass imprisonment, torture and execution of civilians without trial. Most of them from the racially 'black' communities, who made up a large part of Gadaffis loyal base. I wouldn't be the first one to claim that being Black in Libya is now an uneasy state of affairs.


I mean, just compare the Rebel Anthem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikw2UwsfS1s) with the Anthem of Gadaffis Congress (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZTb3z5Gtto) The latter might sound surprisingly familiar to some of us.

I suggest you all read this aswell


16 things Libya will never have again

1. is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free for all its citizens.
2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are state-owned and loans given to all its citizens at zero percent interest by law.
3. Having a home considered a human right in Libya.
4. newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 dinar (U.S.$50,000) by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family.
5. Education and medical treatments are free in Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25 percent of Libyans were literate. Today, the figure is 83 percent.
6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career, they would receive farming land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and livestock to kickstart their farms are all for free.
7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need, the government funds them to go abroad, for it is not only paid for, but they get a U.S.$2,300/month for accommodation and car allowance.
8. If a Libyan buys a car, the government subsidizes 50 percent of the price.
9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0.14 per liter.
10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves amounting to $150 billion are now frozen globally.
11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession, as if he or she is employed, until employment is found.
12. A portion of every Libyan oil sale is credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens.
13. A mother who gives birth to a child receive U.S.$5,000.
14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $0.15.
15. 25 percent of Libyans have a university degree.
16. Gaddafi carried out the world’s largest irrigation project, known as the Great Manmade River project, to make water readily available throughout the desert country.

[Yugo45]

and had the best Human Development Index in all of Africa.

And most of South America and Middle-East.


I mean, just compare the Rebel Anthem with the Anthem of Gadaffis Congress The latter might sound surprisingly familiar to some of us.

I suggest you all read this aswell

Never knew that. Pretty cool, I guess. Does anyone know if this is the Arabic version of The Internationale, or did they just borrow the music?
Can't find a translation :(

[Forward Union]

Never knew that. Pretty cool, I guess. Does anyone know if this is the Arabic version of The Internationale, or is it just music?

Can't find a translation :(

As far as I know, it's not the standard Arabic version of the internationale but a Libya-Specific version. They would sing it at every congress.

[Yugo45]

Many Bosnian press released Gaddafi's last speech and testimony today. For "some reason", most western media decided to totally censor or ignore it, but here it is:



From: Recollections of My Life: Col. Mu’ummar Qaddafi

In the name of Allah, the beneficent, the merciful...

For 40 years, or was it longer, I can't remember, I did all I could to give people houses, hospitals, schools, and when they were hungry, I gave them food. I even made Benghazi into farmland from the desert. I stood up to attacks from that cowboy Reagan. When he killed my adopted orphaned daughter, he was trying to kill me; instead he killed that poor innocent child.

I helped my brothers and sisters from Africa with money for the African Union; I did all I could to help people understand the concept of real democracy, where people's committees ran our country. But that was never enough, as some told me, even people who had 10-room homes, new suits and furniture, were never satisfied. As selfish as they were they wanted more, and they told Americans and other visitors they needed "democracy" and "freedom," never realizing it was a cut-throat system, where the biggest dog eats the rest.

But they were enchanted with those words, never realizing that in America, there was no free medicine, no free hospitals, no free housing, no free education and no free food, except when people had to beg or go to long lines to get soup.

No, no matter what I did, it was never enough for some, but for others, they knew I was the son of Gamal Abdel Nasser, the only true Arab and Muslim leader we've had since Salah'a'Deen, when he claimed the Suez Canal for his people, as I claimed Libya, for my people. It was his footsteps I tried to follow, to keep my people free from colonial domination -- from thieves who would steal from us...

Now, I am under attack by the biggest force in military history. My little African son, Obama, wants to kill me, to take away the freedom of our country, to take away our free housing, our free medicine, our free education, our free food, and replace it with American style thievery, called "capitalism."

But all of us in the Third World know what that means, it means corporations run the countries, run the world, and the people suffer. So, there is no alternative for me, I must make my stand, and if Allah wishes, I shall die by following his path, the path that has made our country rich with farmland, with food and health, and even allowed us to help our African and Arab brothers and sisters to work here with us, in the Libyan Jammohouriyah.

I do not wish to die, but if it comes to that, to save this land, my people, all the thousands who are all my children, then so be it.

Let this testament be my voice to the world, that I stood up to crusader attacks of NATO, stood up to cruelty, stood up to betrayal, stood up to the West and its colonialist ambitions, and that I stood with my African brothers, my true Arab and Muslim brothers, as a beacon of light. When others were building castles, I lived in a modest house, and in a tent. I never forgot my youth in Sirte, I did not spend our national treasury foolishly, and like Salah'a'deen, our great Muslim leader, who rescued Jerusalem for Islam, I took little for myself.

In the West, some have called me "mad," "crazy," but they know the truth and continue to lie. They know that our land is independent and free, not in the colonial grip, that my vision, my path, is, and has been clear and for my people and that I will fight to my last breath to keep us free. May Allah almighty help us to remain faithful and free.

- Leader of the Revolution, Muammar bin Mohammad bin Abdussalam bi Humayd bin Abu Manyar bin Humayd bin Nayil al Fuhsi Gaddafi, April 9th 2011

[ModelHomeInvasion]

Here's a link to the Libya Human Rights Report by UN - 4th January 2011:
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/16session/A-HRC-16-15.pdf

10. The delegation noted that all rights and freedoms were contained in a coherent, consolidated legal framework. The legal guarantees formed the basis for protection of the basic rights of the people. Further, abuses that might occur were dealt with by the judiciary and the perpetrators were brought before justice. The judiciary safeguarded the rights of individuals and was assisted by other entities, most importantly the Office of the Public Prosecutor. A National Human Rights Commission, with a mandate based on the Paris Principles, had also been established, in 2007. The aforementioned entities were complemented by newly established mechanisms, such as civil society organizations established under Law No. 19 of 2001.

11. Protection of human rights was guaranteed in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya; this included not only political rights, but also economic, social and cultural rights. The Libyan Arab Jamahiriya referred to its pioneering experience in the field of wealth distribution and labour rights.

12. The delegation indicated that women were highly regarded in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, and their rights were guaranteed by all laws and legislation. Discriminatory laws had been revoked. Libyan women occupied prominent positions in the public sector, the judicial system, the public prosecutor’s office, the police and the military. Libyan legislation also guaranteed children their rights, and provided for special care for children with special needs, the elderly and persons with disabilities.

17. Freedom of religion was also guaranteed, in accordance with basic laws and the Green Document, which stipulated that religion was a private spiritual and individual value and constituted a direct relationship with the Creator (God).

33. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea praised the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for its achievements in the protection of human rights, especially in the field of economic and social rights, including income augmentation, social care, a free education system, increased delivery of health-care services, care for people with disabilities, and efforts to empower women. It noted the functioning of the constitutional and legislative framework and national entities. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea made recommendations.

53. On the initiative to distribute wealth to low-income families, those programmes were related to distributing money through investments for every needy family. Over the past four years, 229,595 families had benefited from the programme

54. Regarding services for persons with special needs, the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya indicated that such persons received monthly allowances and were exempt from all fees and taxes, including for electricity, water and transportation. They also had residences and housing units, medical supplies, vehicles especially designed for them, and paid domestic help and home services.

63. Australia welcomed the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya’s progress in human rights and its willingness to facilitate visits by Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, which demonstrated the country’s commitment to engaging with the international community on human rights. Australia remained concerned over restrictions on freedom of assembly and expression; the detention of political prisoners; limited rights to fair trial under the new State Security court; enforced disappearances; deaths in custody; discrimination towards minorities; lack of legal protections against domestic violence; and the application of the death penalty. Australia made recommendations.
Here's the List of African countries by Human Development Index (look at who is number one):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African_countries_by_Human_Development_Ind ex

Here's another interesting article:
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/news/intrnational/2011/10/23/1309.html

Gaddafi freed Libya from perpetual poverty by refusing to borrow from the international banking cartel, nationalizing Libya's oil production for the benefit of its own citizens and by providing free education, healthcare and electricity to every Libyan citizen. All Libyans received annual dividends from Libyan oil revenues worth thousands of dollars each year, gas was only $0.14 a litre, plus newly weds were given $50,000 to help them purchase a home, plus the government paid 50% of the cost of a new car.

Under Gaddafi, Libya's literacy rate went from less than 20% to over 80%. Gaddafi believed that housing was a human right. He pledged, and carried through on his promise, to house all Libyans before he housed his own parents (his father died while still living in a tent).
Gaddafi had also nearly completed a mammoth engineering project to bring fresh water from a huge underground aquifer to the surface to irrigate and create new farmland. People willing to learn farming were given free land to use, equipment, livestock and seeds for the project. Gaddafi's Great Man-Made River project was acknowledged in the 2008 Guinness World Records as being the world's largest irrigation project. Gaddafi called it the eighth wonder of the world and he financed it entirely without foreign capital.

Libya was debt free and beholden to no foreign interests. Usury was illegal and all loans were made interest-free through Libya's state-owned central bank. Gaddafi was also trying to introduce a new gold-based currency (the Gold African Dinar) throughout Africa to replace Africa's dependence on the US dollar. If Libya's plans for financial independence spread throughout Africa, the power of the IMF and World Bank to control the conditions of life on this planet would be in serious jeopardy. If he was allowed to continue with his plans, the world would soon begin to understand the Libyan economic miracle that Gaddafi had already achieved.

[Tim Finnegan]

I mean, just compare the Rebel Anthem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikw2UwsfS1s)with the Anthem of Gadaffis Congress (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZTb3z5Gtto) The latter might sound surprisingly familiar to some of us.
Oh, well, no-one but a trily committed socialist revolutionary could possibly sing a song like that. It would be a physical impossibility for them to even whistle the tune! I honestly don't see how, after this crushing bit of evidence, there could be any further discussion of this topic whatsoever. :rolleyes:

[Invader Zim]

So ridiculous. Why must you insert this idiotic comparison?


Hmm, an imperialist, racist despot who murdered and tortured his own citizens, while using psuedo-socialist rhetotic to garner support.

Which one am I talking about?

[Soldier of life]

Hmm, an imperialist, racist despot who murdered and tortured his own citizens, while using psuedo-socialist rhetotic to garner support.

Which one am I talking about?

Yes, it's all about that rhetoric. Over 40 years of it, just sustains all his supporters. Never mind all the material advances in Libyan society, the redistribution of wealth, freedom for women, all the things mentioned in an above post. That's irrelevant to Gaddafi's support, gimme some a that rhetoric:lol:

[ScarletSojourner]

Remember when he supported the IRA, the Sandanistas, the New Jewel Movement and the ANC, kicked the colonialists of Libya, the imperialists out of Wheelus Field, changed currency and redistributed wealth, subsidised housing and utilities, helped bring Libyan living standards and public services to the best levels on the continent, no?


So a National Socialist supported other National Socialists; :rolleyes:

I thought Communism was about the liberation of humanity not nations and the abolition of wage slavery not nicer wages?

[Smyg]

The term is socialist nationalist, not national socialist. The latter is far more unpleasant.