The iPhone 4S

[W1N5T0N]

Okay, comrades, this is probably the strangest thread i've posted up til now,
But i have a question.

So next year, i'm going to be studying, and my parents have offered to buy me the new iphone provided i pay a part of the bills.
Now, i got into a discussion with a friend of mine who defends some aspects of capitalism (not mutually exlusive ;)).

His argument was "if it wasn't for capitalism and for a constant struggle to produce the best and newest, Iphones and all the tech gizmos would not be around."

So, my question is:

Can a Marxist/Communist/Anarchist own an Iphone without being completely hypocritical?

I know this sounds like a really trivial question, but please try and see it from a theoretical POV.


Cheers (and please, no "bourgeois" hate, im sure there are more people with this dilemma out there.)

[Catmatic Leftist]

Communism isn't a lifestyle.

[Dogs On Acid]

Okay, comrades, this is probably the strangest thread i've posted up til now,
But i have a question.

So next year, i'm going to be studying, and my parents have offered to buy me the new iphone provided i pay a part of the bills.
Now, i got into a discussion with a friend of mine who defends some aspects of capitalism (not mutually exlusive ;)).

His argument was "if it wasn't for capitalism and for a constant struggle to produce the best and newest, Iphones and all the tech gizmos would not be around."

So, my question is:

Can a Marxist/Communist/Anarchist own an Iphone without being completely hypocritical?

I know this sounds like a really trivial question, but please try and see it from a theoretical POV.


Cheers (and please, no "bourgeois" hate, im sure there are more people with this dilemma out there.)

Of course you can. That's a BS argument.

IPhone is terrible though... Get Android.

[Q]

I'm saving up for a Macbook Pro myself. Maybe adding an iPad and an iMac to it later on.

Fuck Apple haters. Welcome to the capitalist consumer society where everything you buy is a part of the system.

[Bardo]

I have a DIY phone which I made from bamboo and a coconut.

But seriously:


Communism isn't a lifestyle.

[GatesofLenin]

Funny thread, I was thinking the same thing with my clothes buying. Where do I buy ethically produced clothing, dammit? All sweat-shop made controlled by fat, rich capitalists! :cursing:

[Tablo]

I have a DIY phone which I made from bamboo and a coconut.

But seriously:
How did you get off the island Professor?! :ohmy:

[tir1944]

Buying an iPhone doesn't have anything to do with communism.So it's OK for Communists to have iPhones.
On the other hand,iPhone is for D-bags and hipsters and the like so you should buy something else.
Fuck Apple.


Where do I buy ethically produced clothing, dammit?
No such thing,from what i know at least.

[xub3rn00dlex]

Considering i'm neither a douche or a hipster, your argument is invalid :)

I'm not regretting getting the phone. I enjoy apple products and the way they work. If you want it go for it, especially since you're getting it at a discounted price!

[Rafiq]

Wait a month and buy the galaxy nexus

[Sturmovik]

While I agree with the people saying communism isn't a lifestyle, I think you should still spend you hard earned money on a phone that isn't nearly as overpriced, and one that isn't running behind it's competition each and every time, only to come with a newer version that is finally up to date with the rest a little later.

[xub3rn00dlex]

Wait a month and buy the galaxy nexus

I was thinking of this but they've loaded it with so many extra features the fucking battery drain will be ridiculous imo. I wanted nfc and the new 1.2ghz processor though :(

[tir1944]

What's wrong with a good old ordinary cell-phone?

[W1N5T0N]

What's wrong with a good old ordinary cell-phone?

nothing really, except that my current prepaid is raping me, and basically because the contract is so high i might just as well get a bit more for my buck.

anyhow, thanks comrades!

[tir1944]

Fuck pre-paid phones,get "free" ones and "fill them up" when necessary.

[Q]

Fuck pre-paid phones,get "free" ones and "fill them up" when necessary.

You're describing prepaid.

[Magón]

I own a Macbook Pro.

Come at me, bro!

[communard71]

I don't know. It's tricky. Using the products of capitalist production is not wrong per se as a communist when those products are a matter of "muddling through" life. However, the fact that you asked the question is significant. It means you don't automatically see the "need" for the iphone and recognize that apple is a company with a laundry list of injustices against the international proletariat. So, the answer must be, what is the minimum requirement and how do I minimize my negative impact by supporting the sysytem as a whole and the guilty company (apple or whatever) in particular? Whether we want to recognize it or not, the iphone is a perfect example of the fetichization we have with gadgets and quite frankly, superfluous shit. Get the iphone if you want, it won't postpone anything, but it will add a notch of culpability in your corner. Its a game of inches and the capitalists are winning when we let them.

[Q]

I don't know. It's tricky. Using the products of capitalist production is not wrong per se as a communist when those products are a matter of "muddling through" life. However, the fact that you asked the question is significant. It means you don't automatically see the "need" for the iphone and recognize that apple is a company with a laundry list of injustices against the international proletariat. So, the answer must be, what is the minimum requirement and how do I minimize my negative impact by supporting the sysytem as a whole and the guilty company (apple or whatever) in particular? Whether we want to recognize it or not, the iphone is a perfect example of the fetichization we have with gadgets and quite frankly, superfluous shit. Get the iphone if you want, it won't postpone anything, but it will add a notch of culpability in your corner. Its a game of inches and the capitalists are winning when we let them.

So, in order to "win", we have to exclude ourselves from society? After all, when you participating in it, you inevitably will participate in the capitalist operation.

I don't think such individualist hermit (hobo?) alternatives are a real answer to the capitalist system.

[Dogs On Acid]

Apple sucks balls.

Overpriced crap. Yeah it looks pretty, but that's as far as it gets with apple products.

[La Peur Rouge]

iPhone, Android, whatever, technology is sweet as shit, and the best part is that Capitalism doesn't create any of these things nor come up with the ideas for them, humans do. So enjoy your new iPhone.

[∞]

Get the Samsung Galaxy. My friends outperforms my iphone in every way.

[xub3rn00dlex]

Apple sucks balls.

Overpriced crap. Yeah it looks pretty, but that's as far as it gets with apple products.

Apple doesn't suck balls lol, it's a corporation. So unless you subscribe to the "corporations are people" thing then that is quite impossible.

Their products are over-fucking-priced though, and considering technology turns obsolete awfully fast, they should at least make products that hold their fucking values. My MBA is worth less than 1/2 it's original value only a year later.

The trick with apple is it's closed productive system, allowing them to make products that synchronize and work together very well. They don't really do anything revolutionary, they're just very fucking good at marketing their products as if they're godly items.

Edit: If you want an android phone, don't get the galaxy. Wait a few weeks for the Galaxy Nexus if you want.

[Comrade Marcel]

Get Android.

This ^^

Android > iPhone > Windows Phone > Blackberry , IMO but if you must get an iPhone, wait for iPhone 5, the 4S is just a pimped out 4, I suspect the S stands for steroids. If you must get a crackberry, wait until they release the new ones with the new OS based on QNX Neutrino RTOS.

[Comrade Marcel]

Edit: If you want an android phone, don't get the galaxy. Wait a few weeks for the Galaxy Nexus if you want.

For me it's HTC Panache (http://www.htc.com/ca/products/panache-mobilicity/#tech-specs)

but really one advantage over Apple is that Android can be used by many different manufacturers, same with the Windblowz phone. I think all the new Nokia smart phones will be Win based.

[communard71]

So, in order to "win", we have to exclude ourselves from society? After all, when you participating in it, you inevitably will participate in the capitalist operation.

I don't think such individualist hermit (hobo?) alternatives are a real answer to the capitalist system.

Nope, not what I said at all. I said get what you need, which is almost always less than we seek. A regular cell phone is fine, an apple is extra. Besides, I never said we should "exclude" ourselves. Your reading way too much into it. I also said we would inevitably participate, so no surprise there. I also never said the alternative of not buying into the advertising bullshit advanced by savvy industries is a "real answer" to the capitalist system. I said it was part of the game of inches which we can choose sides for. In the end, your speaking like a lukewarm communist who is an apologist for a cheap piece of childish garbage which is the product of thousands of exploited workers. I don't live in a cave, I just look for daily alternatives to the capitalist shit which is ubiquitous. So, in conclusion, everything you understood from my quote was wrong.

[skizzy]

I hear that people buy Apple stuff because its made with "superior parts". I hear this all the time. They are nothing special. They are made with same parts all other PCs are made with. They use foxconn motherboards, which are actually pretty subpar, and made in horrible conditions in china. If you really like the Fake BSD operating system that is OSX, you can still install it on any PC. The only reason people buy apples products is because they dont know any better.
You are paying double or triple for nothing more than a name.

[Libertador]

http://timenerdworld.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/586-steve-jobs-u-mad.jpg

If you're going to argue against owning products sparked by Capitalism you might as well get out of your home, take off all your clothes, and run naked into the woods.

[Reznov]

Who gives a shit?

But that phone is pretty awesome, but I'd never personally waste that much money on something like a phone. (I'm very "Frugal" :laugh:)

[NewLeft]

Communists love their Apple products..

[communard71]

http://timenerdworld.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/586-steve-jobs-u-mad.jpg

If you're going to argue against owning products sparked by Capitalism you might as well get out of your home, take off all your clothes, and run naked into the woods.

Thats not the point. Nobody said you have to be unhappy with the products created through Capitalism, even Marx knew we had to live with the products until some better mode of production came along. Also, to compare the iphone with a home or clothes shows your perception of the issue is distorted. Purchasing something obviously extraneous because advertising has brainwashed you is not the same as living in a home and wearing clothes.

[xub3rn00dlex]

For me it's HTC Panache (http://www.htc.com/ca/products/panache-mobilicity/#tech-specs)

but really one advantage over Apple is that Android can be used by many different manufacturers, same with the Windblowz phone. I think all the new Nokia smart phones will be Win based.

This is also androids biggest shortfall. It's why i went with apple, because apple owns the hardware AND software. The biggest downer with android is that the software upgrades are usually conflicting because of the fucking phone manufacturers. I'm no apple fanboy, i used windows and i think both pale in comparison to linux. The thing is, linux is great for those non-pirates out there argh!

[socialistjustin]

Get the Nexus or the new Droid. Then you can have LTE and a far superior phone thanks to Ice Cream Sandwich.

[ZeroNowhere]

Thats not the point. Nobody said you have to be unhappy with the products created through Capitalism, even Marx knew we had to live with the products until some better mode of production came along.
'Even' Marx?

[xub3rn00dlex]

Get the Nexus or the new Droid. Then you can have LTE and a far superior phone thanks to Ice Cream Sandwich.

Lte is shit and worthless for now. Apple's reasoning for not including it was that it drained battery life like a fucking vampire (true) and that it's not wide enough yet (true. Why pay even more for an already ridiculously priced phone for a feature most people might not be able to use?) i am however also wondering whether they didn't include it also because it would require a redesign.

[communard71]

yes, "even" Marx. What are you trying to tell me zeronowhere? I value your input on other posts so tell me what your thinking.

[Bardo]

How did you get off the island Professor?! :ohmy:


With my 4G Coconut 2, of course!

Reception was terrible though.

[Rafiq]

I was thinking of this but they've loaded it with so many extra features the fucking battery drain will be ridiculous imo. I wanted nfc and the new 1.2ghz processor though :(



It has like a 2300mah battery... They made it to last long.

[Rafiq]

Right now I have the sprint galaxy s2... I love it

[xub3rn00dlex]

It has like a 2300mah battery... They made it to last long.

It has a 1750mah battery rafiq. How do you like the s2 screen size? The 4.5 inches aren't too big for your pocket?

Source: http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/nexus-prime-rumours-what-you-need-to-know-1028601

[Rafiq]

It has a 1750mah battery rafiq. How do you like the s2 screen size? The 4.5 inches aren't too big for your pocket?

Source: http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/nexus-prime-rumours-what-you-need-to-know-1028601

Oops... Oh, and I'm sure they did something to assure better battery life. Just wait until it comes out until you buy a phone. Also, I absolutely love the 4.5 screen. It fits in my pocket perfectly, and all other phones look puny compared to it. Honestly a little bigger wouldn't be so bad, maybe like 4.7-5 inches would be nice.

But the massive screen is pretty fucking awesome.

[xub3rn00dlex]

Oops... Oh, and I'm sure they did something to assure better battery life. Just wait until it comes out until you buy a phone. Also, I absolutely love the 4.5 screen. It fits in my pocket perfectly, and all other phones look puny compared to it. Honestly a little bigger wouldn't be so bad, maybe like 4.7-5 inches would be nice.

But the massive screen is pretty fucking awesome.

Really? That is interesting. My 4S battery last usually from morning till midnight under heavy usage, so the galaxy nexus should be ok. Again, my 4S doesn't draw "4G LTE" which will affect the lifespan. I think apple could increase the screen size on the next phone, and rumors are pointing to it being true because it will also be curved glass without a home button. I think 3.9 inches would be ideal for a phone, to me atleast.

[socialistjustin]

Lte is shit and worthless for now. Apple's reasoning for not including it was that it drained battery life like a fucking vampire (true) and that it's not wide enough yet (true. Why pay even more for an already ridiculously priced phone for a feature most people might not be able to use?) i am however also wondering whether they didn't include it also because it would require a redesign.

Most major cities have LTE and its extremely fast when compared to 3G. I wouldn't call it worthless to get a LTE phone that also has the better OS.

[xub3rn00dlex]

Most major cities have LTE and its extremely fast when compared to 3G. I wouldn't call it worthless to get a LTE phone that also has the better OS.

It's shit because it gets throttled. I have verizon and i believe after 200 mbs they throttle you from 4g speeds to 3g speeds. Lte is the next gen of cellular technology, but it won't really be worth getting phones supporting it for another 6 months to a year. And lol at the better OS comment. I actually enjoy the iOS very much, and have used andriod before. I prefer iOS, so what're you basing your superiority on? Preference?

[socialistjustin]

I am basing it on preference and openness. I like the fact that you can get pretty much any apparently on Android. Plus, I like all the stuff Google has to offer and the wider selection of phones. I would hate having to wait until Apple decides its time for you to upgrade.

[xub3rn00dlex]

I am basing it on preference and openness. I like the fact that you can get pretty much any apparently on Android. Plus, I like all the stuff Google has to offer and the wider selection of phones. I would hate having to wait until Apple decides its time for you to upgrade.

Preferences do not make an OS better though. You prefer the openness of android, that doesn't necessarily mean it's better - even though i prefer openness as well. Yay jailbreak! As i stated before, the fragmentation of android is it's biggest negative, because while google can release new updates they aren't always compatible with the handsets because the manufacturer hasn't released a required update themselves. By being the closed (scumfucks) apple are, they manage to avert this problem. You still have to wait until it's time for google's decision to upgrade... And unless you're rich most of us are stuck in contracts without subsidized upgrades. Jailbroken iphones can get any app google or rim has exusively as well :)

[Rafiq]

Well what android di you use?

The best softwhere for android imo is Touchwiz 4.0, but android ice cream sandwhich will crush iOS imo

[Commissar Rykov]

Man I make my own clothes, electronics, medication, food, entertainment, etc. Sure it looks like shit and burns down the house I built myself every other day but I am so much more prole than you.:lol:

[CommunityBeliever]

if it wasn't for capitalism and for a constant struggle to produce the best and newest, Iphones and all the tech gizmos would not be around.

Ask your friend how these "techo gizmos" are really that much better then the Sketchpad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOZqRJzE8xg) which had direct pointing input back in 1963 lol

Seriously though, I am not impressed with capitalism and its "tech gizmos."


IPhone is terrible though... Get Android. Well at least Google has actually decided to publicise Androids source code (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qje8wJB_2vA&feature=related) in version 4.0, however since Google is a corporation its not like they take the motto "do no evil" very seriously lol.

All corporations suck, rather they be Google, Apple, or Microsoft, so we shouldn't be in the business of directing people towards choosing which crap product they want to waste money on.

[xub3rn00dlex]

Well what android di you use?

The best softwhere for android imo is Touchwiz 3.0, but android ice cream sandwhich will crush iOS imo

I used android pre 2.0 days so it was a while back. I'm interested in ice cream sandwhich but from my reaearch it's capabilities are still secretive. It might trump iOS, but the problem with that becoming an acuality (here in the states atleast) is apples's marketing campaign which you have to admit does a good job of influencing you avg. consumer.

As for the comment about open source, it is great and i wish all corps. Would make their software open source, that was maybe linux might have. A huge market share already. Yet most consumers don't care about open source because they are not devs. Consumers want shiny new products tha make their friends jealous.

[piet11111]

So glad i do not own a cellphone.

[Dogs On Acid]

All corporations suck, rather they be Google, Apple, or Microsoft, so we shouldn't be in the business of directing people towards choosing which crap product they want to waste money on.

Google does not suck. They treat their workers very well and their products are not only top-notch, but free.

[Rafiq]

Google does not suck. They treat their workers very well and their products are not only top-notch, but free.

And that doesn't matter. Google is still our class enemy, no matter how well they treat their wage slaves. Hell, if the CEO of google himself even baked his workers cupcakes and bent down to kiss their ass every day he'd still be our enemy.

[W1N5T0N]

To sum it all up:

Wars are being fought over precious minerals needed for our little "gizmos",
the people are exploited in the mines to get that stuff,
they are manufactured by exploited workers all over the world fighting to get the lowest wages to get A wage,
they are then shipped all over the world in order to make production cheaper, burning loads of fuel,
they are then sold to us as " a revolution in technology".


And we, the communists, eco-militants, anti-capitalists buy that shit thankfully.


Well, thats just fucking hilarious. Thanks everybody :D

[Mitja]

i dont have an phone and it is rely better without it.
all of my friends have phones for 400-300 euros im just fuck off leave me alone idiots i dont want to see your phones.
The funny thing is that they think that they are cool if they have phones for 400 euros but they just look like complete fucks to me.
But my famely spends all of our money for sports: skiing, kayaking, vacation,.... and this is much better than a stupid phone!

p.s: Linux OS are the best!

[ZeroNowhere]

Aw, did we outrage the little moralist?

[Rafiq]

W1NSTON, how's a say you take your computer and throw it out your window, then?

[thefinalmarch]

Wars are being fought over precious minerals needed for our little "gizmos",
the people are exploited in the mines to get that stuff,
Yeah it's pretty shit, huh? Thankfully you're among those who want to help overthrow the system which makes this happen.


they are manufactured by exploited workers all over the world fighting to get the lowest wages to get A wage,
Everything is manufactured by exploited workers. You can't live outside the system.


they are then shipped all over the world in order to make production cheaper, burning loads of fuel,
Literally all commodities are shipped, or flown by cargo plane, or transported in freight trucks. All that shit burns fuel. Hell, a majority of basic supplies like fresh produce are transported via cargo plane and freight truck. Should we all just stop eating fruit and veg out of an obligation to cut greenhouse gas emissions?

[Dogs On Acid]

And that doesn't matter. Google is still our class enemy, no matter how well they treat their wage slaves. Hell, if the CEO of google himself even baked his workers cupcakes and bent down to kiss their ass every day he'd still be our enemy.

How is Google our class enemy if Google isn't a person? :rolleyes:

[Commissar Rykov]

How is Google our class enemy if Google isn't a person? :rolleyes:
Google has evolved just like Skynet.:lol:

[piet11111]

I do not have a phone because i have almost no need for it outside of the wired phone i have at home.
When i am out i do not want people to call me.

But i do not deny others their little toy either and a friend of mine has one of those galaxy S phones that is often used to check the weather forecast since we work outside and when the weather is shit he uses it as a radio.
And that is actually quite cool i admit.

[OHumanista]

I don't know it that is just me but I can't stand doing anything on a phone other than talking and sending messages.(and even that already annoys me sometimes)And that is why I don't have and don't intend to have an iPhone.
And no I am not old, I am 19. I just don't like phones lol :p

[Dogs On Acid]

Google has evolved just like Skynet.:lol:

We're all fucked.

[W1N5T0N]

Aw, did we outrage the little moralist?

How was i being a moralist? It was merely an attempt at cynical humor. Sorry if you didnt get it :rolleyes:

[Q]

How was i being a moralist? It was merely an attempt at cynical humor. Sorry if you didnt get it :rolleyes:

Sarcasm doesn't relay well over the internet.

[ZeroNowhere]

Sarcasm doesn't relay well over the internet.
And if it was 'cynical' humour, then the same probably applies anyway.

[Black_Rose]

So, my question is:

Can a Marxist/Communist/Anarchist own an Iphone without being completely hypocritical?

I know this sounds like a really trivial question, but please try and see it from a theoretical POV.


Cheers (and please, no "bourgeois" hate, im sure there are more people with this dilemma out there.)

As for myself, I have never purchased an Apple product, had anyone offer an Apple product as a gift, nor did I ever owned a "smartphone", although I do own a cell phone. Thus, it is quite easy for me speak in a judgmental tone to other leftists who own such devices, but such an approach is unproductive. However, unlike many posters, I can say with pride that I never owned an Apple product; it is something that I am proud of.

Of course, one has to remember that Apple is a corporation whose primary objective is to enrich their shareholders financially; thus the pecuniary action of purchasing an Apple product would increase the price of the asset (Apple stock) by increasing the company's earnings marginally and contributing to the company's cash on hand (since there is a positive profit margin for Apple on the retail sale of an Apple product). By purchasing consumer products and services, we are perpetuating the system (consumption by consumers and the owners benefiting from the profits). Given the degree of economic inequality in the United States (and in the rest of the world), it is worth noting that 88.9% of "directly owned" equities (not through a tax-advantage retirement plan) are owned by 5% of shareholders, while the bottom 90% merely own 20% of all equities (including those in retirement plans)*. Remember many of these people (the top 10& of shareholders) are our enemies: they are the bourgeoisie, an aloof group of people that are incapable of sympathizing with domestic or foreign workers nor do have interest in alleviating their travails, possess disproportionate political influence on economic and foreign policy by virtue of their financial influence, and they act in their economic self-interest, meaning that most of them want to erode the threadbare welfare state in developed countries, further exploit foreign workers, and support military imperialism. Do you want to enrich these people, even though it is rather marginal? I could understand one's decision to purchase these products if it serves a utilitarian purpose. For instance, I own a computer because it enables fast processing, retrieval, and storage of information, and enables to learn about the world and entertain myself.

*Table 1 of the CBO paper: Will the Demand for Assets Fall
When the Baby Boomers Retire?


As for myself, I think I would be distracted by smartphones, and I carry printouts of scientific papers or political columns in my purse to read if I am out or go on long (fitness) walks, and I can do stuff on my computer if I get home, and, besides, I find it difficult to surf the web on a smartphone. I guess I could live my life without having to check my Facebook page or Twitter every hour.

We should all live frugally; not because someone like Dave Ramsey, who provides advice for one to "break even" as a worker within the system and probably supports the system itself, but to deny cash flow to their assets since most of our purchases enrich the bourgeoisie. Most importantly, we should encourage others (including liberal leftists since the revolutionary left is currently a small coterie) to do the same since the impact of each individual is marginal.


Lastly, we should ask ourselves what makes us morally superior? Succinctly, I would say that it is our earnest sympathy to the plight of the (foreign and domestic) working class, and our belief that we should treat them with amity and dignity, while not viewing them through the lens of opprobrium and judgment. However, this does not mean we should be nice to our enemies; for any leftist with a mere scoilism of the history of imperialism, they should know about the hypocrisy and ruthlessness (the examples are supernumerary) of the bourgeoisie, since their sin is not mere complicity, but informed advocacy of imperialist policies: thus, we should be merciless to the merciless. Do not let captious criticisms of capitalists make you forget that!


Best wishes,

Asuka (not my real name, it is a nom-de-guerre)

[Black_Rose]

To sum it all up:

Wars are being fought over precious minerals needed for our little "gizmos",
the people are exploited in the mines to get that stuff,
they are manufactured by exploited workers all over the world fighting to get the lowest wages to get A wage,
they are then shipped all over the world in order to make production cheaper, burning loads of fuel,
they are then sold to us as " a revolution in technology".


And we, the communists, eco-militants, anti-capitalists buy that shit thankfully.


Well, thats just fucking hilarious. Thanks everybody :D

It's not a revolution in technology. BTW, where's my fucking singularity, if capitalism promotes "technological revolutions".

[o well this is ok I guess]

Thanks to capitalism I can shoot up a village at 500 rounds per minute.

[m-l Power]

.....

Well, i have a MacBook.

And what do you want? Going to the forest and become a hermit?

The capitalism is going to be there even if you want to scape. The solution isn´t disregarding it, the opposite, the marxist have to analyse it and get conclussions. We must not to disconect of this system, we must take our actual social reality and, based on this, we have to change it, give it a revolutionary change.

Perhaps buying an Iphone avoids the conquest of the political power from the proletarian?

[Black_Rose]

.....

Well, i have a MacBook.

And what do you want? Going to the forest and become a hermit?

The capitalism is going to be there even if you want to scape. The solution isn´t disregarding it, the opposite, the marxist have to analyse it and get conclussions. We must not to disconect of this system, we must take our actual social reality and, based on this, we have to change it, give it a revolutionary change.

Perhaps buying an Iphone avoids the conquest of the political power from the proletarian?

No, we should not like hermits, but we should be conscious on how we spend our money. If a leftist wants to buy an iPhone, he should ask himself if it would serve a utilitarian purpose to justify the expenditure. Remember that purchasing an iPhone would enrich the bourgeois shareholders of Apple Inc. (Of course, the same is true for any smartphone or computer, but I cannot live [that is acquiring information in an expedient fashion] without a computer and deem it as a necessity; I cannot justify buying "smartphones" in terms of utility.)

[CommunityBeliever]

Google does not suck. They treat their workers very well and their products are not only top-notch, but free. - The reason for that Google's products seem free is that Google doesn't even develop products. Google mainly produces services like search. Google exerts absolute control over these services.

- The idea that Google is a friend of the worker is a total myth. See Worker's Leaving the Googleplex (http://www.andrewnormanwilson.com/portfolios/70411-workers-leaving-the-googleplex) by Andrew Norman Wilson.

[xub3rn00dlex]

No, we should not like hermits, but we should be conscious on how we spend our money. If a leftist wants to buy an iPhone, he should ask himself if it would serve a utilitarian purpose to justify the expenditure. Remember that purchasing an iPhone would enrich the bourgeois shareholders of Apple Inc. (Of course, the same is true for any smartphone or computer, but I cannot live [that is acquiring information in an expedient fashion] without a computer and deem it as a necessity; I cannot justify buying "smartphones" in terms of utility.)

You cannot justify a smart phone in it's utility but other leftists can. If we don't buy apple products we buy other products instead. Owning a smartphone has made my life a lot easier because it allows me to do things throughot my day i previously was unable to do ( such as responding to this post at work. ) remember, communism isn't a lifestyle.

[ZeroNowhere]

No, we should not like hermits, but we should be conscious on how we spend our money. If a leftist wants to buy an iPhone, he should ask himself if it would serve a utilitarian purpose to justify the expenditure.
Being a 'conscious consumer' is all well and good, but it's not clear that making wise use of our finances is much more of a virtue for a socialist than for anybody else. It would probably be advisable if one wished to start a business, for example. Personally, I don't have or desire a smartphone, nor do I think that it would be at all worth the cost, but that has nothing to do with socialism.

[Red Rabbit]

It most certainly does not make you a hypocrite, but that won't stop people from calling you one. I own a MacBook and I get called a hypocrite for it regularly, despite the MacBook being a requirement for my work.

[Black_Rose]

Being a 'conscious consumer' is all well and good, but it's not clear that making wise use of our finances is much more of a virtue for a socialist than for anybody else. It would probably be advisable if one wished to start a business, for example. Personally, I don't have or desire a smartphone, nor do I think that it would be at all worth the cost, but that has nothing to do with socialism.

My suggestion of frugality (or "conscious consumerism") is less geared towards promoting prudent management of personal finance (and personal responsibility), than with notion that most purchases in a capitalist economy enriches the bourgeoisie.

For a particular case:
I remember that about a year ago, a "Daily Kos" diary entry listed the names of the Koch brother's products and front companies (Dixie and Quilted Northern are two brands that I remember); it is not like their products have a conspicuous logo, nor do they say it is a subsidiary of Koch Industries. Do you want to enrich the Koch brothers, a political active group of economic reactionaries? It would seem, based on the actions of the Koch brothers, that purchasing alternative products would be a lesser evil. Koch Industries is a privately-held company and the primary beneficiaries of a purchase of a Koch Industries product would be the Koch brothers; in contrast, Apple is publicly-held company and the beneficiaries are more diffuse since the general upper classes benefit from Apple's products.


remember, communism isn't a lifestyle. It isn't, but if we are truly ardent revolutionary leftists, we should be willing to live a life of austerity and adversity to further the revolution. I particularly remember the Long March and the FARC guerrillas who are constantly moving in the Colombian jungle, carrying about 20kg on their backs, without access to housing or modern electronics. Suffering and material deprivation isn't inherently virtuous, but suffering with our revolutionary comrades has utility since it conveys solidarity and a sense of empathetic understanding (and that we do not see them as expendable pawns), and, most importantly, it demonstrates that one deems the cause is worth suffering for since he himself is willing to suffer for it too.

Of course, renouncing all our material possessions to live as a mendicant, on locust and wild honey, would not advance a revolutionary agenda.

[Comrade Marcel]

This is also androids biggest shortfall. It's why i went with apple, because apple owns the hardware AND software. The biggest downer with android is that the software upgrades are usually conflicting because of the fucking phone manufacturers. I'm no apple fanboy, i used windows and i think both pale in comparison to linux. The thing is, linux is great for those non-pirates out there argh!

I have never heard of this, since the Android is ported to various CPU arcs I could see how this could happen in terms of apps, but not the OS itself. However, I have never paid for a single app on Android. I can't imagine paying for apps, and it seems that there is way more free stuff for Android than apple. I am pretty sure that iPhone is still catching up to Android in terms of things that you can do.

Oddly enough, I actually like Windows and OS X better on a home computer than Linux. And I have tried every OS under the sun that can be ran on PC.

[Dogs On Acid]

- The reason for that Google's products seem free is that Google doesn't even develop products. Google mainly produces services like search. Google exerts absolute control over these services.

- The idea that Google is a friend of the worker is a total myth. See Worker's Leaving the Googleplex (http://www.andrewnormanwilson.com/portfolios/70411-workers-leaving-the-googleplex) by Andrew Norman Wilson.

Android? Chrome? Maps? Earth?

[W1N5T0N]

Well why cant we just grow all our crops locally? you have greenhouses for lemons and shit like that

[PhoenixAsh]

Remember...it is only revolutionary if you paint a circleA on the back...

[m-l Power]

No, we should not like hermits, but we should be conscious on how we spend our money. If a leftist wants to buy an iPhone, he should ask himself if it would serve a utilitarian purpose to justify the expenditure. Remember that purchasing an iPhone would enrich the bourgeois shareholders of Apple Inc. (Of course, the same is true for any smartphone or computer, but I cannot live [that is acquiring information in an expedient fashion] without a computer and deem it as a necessity; I cannot justify buying "smartphones" in terms of utility.)

Of course, i am not denying what you say. Like Che Guevara said, there´s a revolution in our minds too, the "new man" has to emerge. The revolution has his ideology part too, and we must not disgregard it.

[xub3rn00dlex]

Here's an update about my iPhone 4S situation. I bought my iPhone the day it released, Oct. 14. This monday, exactly 24 days later I noticed that the screen was already faulty. The screen is normal near the home button, yet as it nears the speaker side it dulls out. This is fucking ridiculous. If I buy a phone from a "top" company which Apple claims to be, the fucking phone should not be malfunctioning 3 fucking weeks after it's purchase.