KKE assisting the police and blocking the Parliament? (fka newswire II)

[thälmann]

This thread is now offically intended for discussion on the actions of KKE today. -- Sentinel

http://www.livestream.com/syntagmasquare
right now there are heavy clashes between kke and anarchists, other leftists whatever...

[jmlima]

Courtesy of the Guardian:


Just back from the barricades where fierce hand-to-hand fighting has broken out between self-styled black-clad anarchists and communist party unionists. Scores are believed to have been injured in the clashes which erupted in front of the posh Grande Bretagne hotel. For hours an eerie calm has prevailed as tens of thousands have protested outside the parliament many representing unions ranging from garbage collectors to transport workers, taxi drivers and seamen - just some of the sectors who say they are being "picked out and punished" by the austerity measures dictated under the terms of Greece's €110bn EU/IMF bailout.
Demonstrators thronging Syntagma Square are forced to pick their way through the detritus of destroyed bus stops, shop windows, smashed marble and burned rubbish that lines the streets in the wake of the clashes that erupted late yesterday. Almost to a man protesters say that the violence is the work of undercover policemen who start throwing petrol bombs and rocks at police so that the authorities have an excuse to strike back with tear gas and disperse the crowds. But these latest clashes highlight the extreme tensions caused by the economic crisis in a country that really does feel as if it is on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
Communists and Anarchists fighting while their opponents laugh, who would have guessed eh? The left really needs to get a grip and unite.

[thälmann]

i have no great sympathy for anarchists is general, but what the kke is doing, and especially today( blocking the parliament for militants who want to attack it), is so stupid that i can understand those who attacked them. by the way the first attack came from the "we wont pay " movement.

[PhoenixAsh]

Holy flying FUCK....you do NOT block parliament. YOU fucking BURN parliament. What the fuck is so difficult to understand about this concept??? What the hell is PAME thinking....fucking bunch of reactionary fuckers.

Ok here is how I understand the situation. This morning two of my firends (ML) joined the PAME demonstration when the marched to the square. Pame almost surrounded parliament. And it looked promissing because there were very few cops. PAME group was armed with sticks and stuff. Then they simply stopped. They did fuck all. If they had moved on parliament it would have been theirs for the taking. Instead they did fuck all. Another friend of mine is with an anarchist group. When they tried to move into the square they were pushed back and beaten by PAME. PAME was protecting the fucking parliament. Severe clashes broke out. These three friends know each other and currently after seeing what happened and how the fucking reactionaries protected the fuckig cops when they arrived they simply moved from the PAME demo and joined the other side. One of them is slightly hurt. But is ok.

I will not repeat what my ML friends said exactly about PAME or the KKE....but suffices to say words like counterrevolutionary, reactionary traitors were on the friendly side of the discourse. My anarchist friend got hurt too.

edit:
I just read that the PAME demonstrators have handed people over to the police. THOSE FUCKING COLLABORATING FUCKS! FUCKING TRAITOROUS SCUM.

[Sasha]

They dont want the comfy seats of power burned they hope to plant their state-capitalist arses on.
15.49 Most demonstrators now pushed out of the square and into the side streets. People are still trying to get back into the square but the riot police and the Stalinists are blocking access.
15.30 At least 20 demonstrators have been injured by the clashes. The Stalinists have handed demonstrators to the police. At least two Stalinists have been burnt by molotovs. Clashes continue at Mitropoleos Street.
15.38 Police have now taken all of the lower part of the Syntagma Square and the Stalinists have the upper part.
15.27 Full-on police attack to clear Syntagma. Large crowd pushed down Ermou street.
15.18 Incredible scenes – generalised violence across much of Syntagma. More molotovs and stones thrown at the Stalinists crowd.
15.15 Police now try to enter the square from Stadiou and to trap the anarchists.
14.59 The clashes are escalating. Molotov thrown into Stalinist crowd.
14.52 Clashes continue as protestors try and reach the parliament. The clashes are severe, flares shot straight into the crowd.
14.47 Generalised clashes between hundreds of anarchists and Stalinists in Syntagma. Stones, bottles and flares are thrown. Protestors trying to break through PAME lines to reach the parliament.
14.44 A huge anarchist block now attacking Stalinist lines. They are face to face* by the Great Britain Hotel in Syntagma. Police firing teargas.
13.14 Once again the stalinist trade union, PAME, has lined up before the police (!) not allowing people to get anywhere close to them, or to parliament.


From occupied london....
fuck the kke and the horse they rode in on.

[Ravachol]

They dont want the comfy seats of power burned they hope to plant their state-capitalist arses on.

From occupied london....
fuck the kke and the horse they rode in on.

Seems like some good old 'Look at how reasonable an alternative we are to this angry proletarian horde!' trick, taking up the guise of would-be policemen. Talking about the left-wing of Capital :rolleyes: Fuck that bullshit.



16.30 GMT+2 Earlier in Rethymnon, on Crete Island, members of KNE threatened protesters with sticks, opposite the city hall.

In Mytilini, on Lesvos Island, the assembly of the occupied Periphery decided to end the occupation with an evening demo, in about one hour when strikers will march in the city streets.

16.20 GMT+2 Thousands of members of PAME are in front of the parliament. Police pulled back from the lower parts of Syntagma; smaller groups of anti-authoritarians, base unions and ultra left try to enter the square from the lower side; most union demonstrators still blocked in the side streets.

The ministry of Finance in Mitropoleos Street is under occupation from strikers.

16.10 GMT+2 Extensive use of tear gas now in Syntagma. Stalinists attacked demonstrators who tried to take the square.

15.45 GMT+2 There are still demonstrators in Amalias Street, in front of the parliament, as well as in Fillelinon and Mitropoleos streets. The square is evacuated and encircled by cops, though. The Stalinists are still blocking access.

It must be clear that PAME and KNE are not communists. They are Stalinist snitches and ruffians who work for the regime. Today, they have handed more demonstrators to the police —as they have done in numerous cases in the past, i.e. back in 1998.

15.30 GMT+2 Full-on police attack to clear Syntagma. Large crowd pushed down Ermou Street.

A coordinated police raid along Pesmazoglou and Stadiou streets.

15.25 GMT+2 Clashes between anarchists and Stalinists mainly in Filellinon and Voukourestiou streets.

Generalized violence across much of Syntagma. More Molotovs and stones thrown at the Stalinist crowd. Earlier police attempted to enter the square from Stadiou and to trap anarchists.

15.20 GMT+2 Severe injured protesters (at least 20) are constantly being transferred to the medical centre of Syntagma Square. PAME/ΚΝΕ members seem to have direct contact with police officers and handed at least one (most probably anarchist) protester to the police. They also attacked insurrectionist demonstrators. Now protesters counterattack the cops and the scumbags of PAME/ΚΝΕ.

[PhoenixAsh]

PAME has proven according to their own slogan that they are indeed with capital and not with the workers. KKE members have some explaining to do here....

[thälmann]

youre right but thats not the first time. its kke s politics since the 50s....

[PhoenixAsh]

The Trotskyists helped the Anarchists and blocked attacks by the riot cops. I like this noted for everybody. Seeing as to the ongoing debates between Stalinists and Trotskyists and the continuous attacks on Trotskyists for being somehow counter revolutionary. This has now once and for all disproven.

[finnoafrican]

Please don't make Spain 1936 again, comrade against comrade, really? :(

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Seems like some good old 'Look at how reasonable an alternative we are to this angry proletarian horde!' trick, taking up the guise of would-be policemen. Talking about the left-wing of Capital :rolleyes: Fuck that bullshit.
What the fucking fuck?Stalinist=Not Communist?Are you serious? :cursing:

[Kornilios Sunshine]

i have no great sympathy for anarchists is general, but what the kke is doing, and especially today( blocking the parliament for militants who want to attack it), is so stupid that i can understand those who attacked them. by the way the first attack came from the "we wont pay " movement.
Believe me,they don't want to attack the parliament they want to prevent workers from demonstrating.Oh,and no one can attack it.There is an enclosure around the parliament.

[Thirsty Crow]

What the fucking fuck?Stalinist=Not Communist?Are you serious? :cursing:
How about some response to the fact that union members associated with KKE directly cooperated with cops in what was an effective defense of the parliament which will, undoubtedly, pass laws which will bring on yet more severe austerity upon the workers', the youth and pensioners in Greece? What would you say about that, or do you think that you don't have a right to say anything in matters of official policy in your party, since you're not part of the leadership?

[Kornilios Sunshine]

How about some response to the fact that union members associated with KKE directly cooperated with cops in what was an effective defense of the parliament which will, undoubtedly, pass laws which will bring on yet more severe austerity upon the workers', the youth and pensioners in Greece? What would you say about that, or do you think that you don't have a right to say anything in matters of official policy in your party, since you're not part of the leadership?
I am telling you it is a lie.Also, what about the fact that today 30 people (I guess anarchists) were beating up one member of PAME?And you are answering to another topic,I voiced my opposition against the opinion Stalinism = Not communism.And you are responding to another point but not to that.

[thälmann]

Believe me,they don't want to attack the parliament they want to prevent workers from demonstrating.Oh,and no one can attack it.There is an enclosure around the parliament.

are you serious about that ? and when violence against the police prevent communist workers from demonstrating, somebody should ask what kind of communists they are.

communists should be at the front, and not stop the masses from attacking the state you want to smash...if youre a communist.

what was the plan of the peaceful crowd today? looking while the enemy inside the parliament is destroying the live of the greeks? and then going home. a few hundred thousand peacefully on the street means nothing if you are not ready to act.

when the kke dont want anarchists to be violent in that unorganised way, they have to be an alternative in that area. why dont they occupy the parliament for example, they are enough people.

[Thirsty Crow]

I am telling you it is a lie.Also, what about the fact that today 30 people (I guess anarchists) were beating up one member of PAME?
I don't give a fuck what are you telling me. You could be telling me as well that magic flying unicorns are going to stop the austerity from being pushed through the parliament.
What is pretty obvious from this is that physical action was deliberately prevented, and there is no indication whatsoever that these militants were trying to undermine workers' demos. They were trying, it seems, to physically undermine the "democratic" process in the Greek parliament.

And what about that fact? Cop collaborators, especially in such situations, deserve nothing better than a foot down their throats.

[PhoenixAsh]

Believe me,they don't want to attack the parliament they want to prevent workers from demonstrating.Oh,and no one can attack it.There is an enclosure around the parliament.

Well...If PAME/KKE had not been counterrevolutionary and reactionary and had not collaborated with the cops and a large scale...maybe we would have been able to destroy the enclosures and taken parliament.

Or is it the case that KKE members see a fence as a unsurmountable hurdle to revolution?

WTF dude...after what they did today I am surprised you haven't burned your memebrship card in furious anger over the betrayal of the people and your instrumental role in breaking the strike and demonstrations.

I am sure the burgeoisie government will give your party a huge big medal. How many did you party leadership get paid for this brutal and most obvious reactionary betrayal and sell out?

[Kornilios Sunshine]

are you serious about that ? and when violence against the police prevent communist workers from demonstrating, somebody should ask what kind of communists they are.

communists should be at the front, and not stop the masses from attacking the state you want to smash...if youre a communist.

what was the plan of the peaceful crowd today? looking while the enemy inside the parliament is destroying the live of the greeks? and then going home. a few hundred thousand peacefully on the street means nothing if you are not ready to act.

when the kke dont want anarchists to be violent in that unorganised way, they have to be an alternative in that area. why dont they occupy the parliament for example, they are enough people.
Well,thats what they tried to do today.Actually,the encirclement of the parliament.Αlso, by attacking the state you will get nothing.By that I don't mean that there will be revolution with no force.The thing is that if people demostrate all the time,without riots,then something might happen.

[PhoenixAsh]

I am telling you it is a lie.Also, what about the fact that today 30 people (I guess anarchists) were beating up one member of PAME?And you are answering to another topic,I voiced my opposition against the opinion Stalinism = Not communism.And you are responding to another point but not to that.


TWO OF MY ML FRIENDS WERE WITH THE PAME DEMO.

They saw what happened. PAME/KKE groups attacked the Anarchists. They acted like cops. They let cops pass through their lines in order to get to militants. They handed over demonstrators to the cops.

So do not try your: lies, lies...all lies line here.

We know exactly what happened.

And yes...this means that PAME/KKE are not communists. They are counter revolutionary and reactionary henchmen of the burgeoisie.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Well...If PAME/KKE had not been counterrevolutionary and reactionary and had not collaborated with the cops and a large scale...maybe we would have been able to destroy the enclosures and taken parliament.

Or is it the case that KKE members see a fence as a unsurmountable hurdle to revolution?

WTF dude...after what they did today I am surprised you haven't burned your memebrship card in furious anger over the betrayal of the people and your instrumental role in breaking the strike and demonstrations.

I am sure the burgeoisie government will give your party a huge big medal. How many did you party leadership get paid for this brutal and most obvious reactionary betrayal and sell out?
1.I am not even in KKE.I put it in my organisation because it is the party I want to vote when I get 18.
2.They got paid millions!Haha fuckers we are richies,you are poor.I am joking.
3.What are you talking about?The anarchists were the first that started the riots.They police came after like 30 minutes or so.I also don't give a shit about lies like cop collaboration and others.

[Per Levy]

I am telling you it is a lie.Also, what about the fact that today 30 people (I guess anarchists) were beating up one member of PAME?

well if its true what is written up there, that pame/kke helped the cops and handed over demonstrators to them i really understand them.


And you are answering to another topic,I voiced my opposition against the opinion Stalinism = Not communism.And you are responding to another point but not to that.

because its not importent, what is importent though is that pame/kke seem to be traitours at the moment, actually protects(and helping them) cops and goverment.

if that is all true and i be a member of either organisation i'd drop out right away.

[Per Levy]

Well,thats what they tried to do today.Actually,the encirclement of the parliament.Αlso, by attacking the state you will get nothing.By that I don't mean that there will be revolution with no force.The thing is that if people demostrate all the time,without riots,then something might happen.

you sound so much like a liberal right now:rolleyes:

[PhoenixAsh]

Well,thats what they tried to do today.Actually,the encirclement of the parliament.Αlso, by attacking the state you will get nothing.By that I don't mean that there will be revolution with no force.The thing is that if people demostrate all the time,without riots,then something might happen.

Are you fucking serious????? Are you for fucking real????

Today there was a huge chance of taking parliament of taking charge. And the KKE/PAME reactionaries prevented it.

Fuck that. Fuck your arguments here.

It is obvious to EVRYFUCKING BODY in Europe that the only thing things will happen and things will change is if you physically overthrow your government.


THIS IS COMMUNIST THEORY. THIS IS THE BASIS.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

you sound so much like a liberal right now:rolleyes:
Yeah whatever you say.I won't give a fuck about the BS stated in this thread.Sometimes, it is pointless to argue with some anarchists.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

are you fucking serious????? Are you for fucking real????

Today there was a huge chance of taking parliament of taking charge. And the kke/pame reactionaries prevented it.

Fuck that. Fuck your arguments here.

It is obvious to evryfucking body in europe that the only thing things will happen and things will change is if you physically overthrow your government.


This is communist theory. This is the basis.
omg you are very right...hindsight 20/20 for president

[PhoenixAsh]

1.I am not even in KKE.I put it in my organisation because it is the party I want to vote when I get 18.
2.They got paid millions!Haha fuckers we are richies,you are poor.I am joking.
3.What are you talking about?The anarchists were the first that started the riots.They police came after like 30 minutes or so.I also don't give a shit about lies like cop collaboration and others.

When Anarchists tried to enter the square they were immmediately attacked by PAME/KKE....and pushed back. THAT is why they attacked back.

There were indeed NO cops. And PAME/KKE could have taken parliament easilly and physically prevent a vote today.

But instead they protected parliament. They were not attacked by Anarchists and militants. They were attacking. They refused them entrance in the square.

And yes they collaborated with the cops. First off all they let the police pass through their lines. Second of all they coordinated attacks with the cops. THird of all they handed over people to the cops.

Now...what you must know that I had friends in the PAME/KKE demo and friends in the Anarchist group who first tried to enter the square this morning.

So pretty much they all agree PAME/KKE started this.

And if I were you...I would not vote for KKE even if they paid you. find a real revolutionary group. INstead of counter revolutionary traitors.

[Thirsty Crow]

Are you fucking serious????? Are you for fucking real????

Today there was a huge chance of taking parliament of taking charge. And the KKE/PAME reactionaries prevented it.

Fuck that. Fuck your arguments here.

It is obvious to EVRYFUCKING BODY in Europe that the only thing things will happen and things will change is if you physically overthrow your government.


THIS IS COMMUNIST THEORY. THIS IS THE BASIS.
Calm down, comrade. Don't you see s/he is a kid and does not really know much about the situation (and don't confuse this with ageism please; it's painfully obvious that very young people can be very unexperienced and naive)?
Let's wait for FSL (a KKE member) and AttackGr.

[The Douche]

And people wonder why RAAN wanted to breed a culture of anti-leninism...


The KKE are, and always have been collaborators and anti-working class. They have literally killed anarchists before. This was very possibly a turning point in the greek rebellion, a turn for the worse, as KKE is now bargaining with the state to play the mediating role. Just like communist/left parties/unions have done for the past 50 years.

[PhoenixAsh]

Calm down, comrade. Don't you see s/he is a kid and does not really know much about the situation (and don't confuse this with ageism please; it's painfully obvious that very young people can be very unexperienced and naive)?
Let's wait for FSL (a KKE member) and AttackGr.

Yeah you are right. Thanks.

[aty]

Wow wow wow, KKE just proved themselves to be reactionary fascists, defenders of the state and status quo.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Calm down, comrade. Don't you see s/he is a kid and does not really know much about the situation (and don't confuse this with ageism please; it's painfully obvious that very young people can be very unexperienced and naive)?
Let's wait for FSL (a KKE member) and AttackGr.
Yeah I am a kid I need a smart genious anarchist to tell me what really happened.And if you mark people's opinion and taking into account they are young,then I think this makes you kind of an idiot.

[thälmann]

Yeah whatever you say.I won't give a fuck about the BS stated in this thread.Sometimes, it is pointless to argue with some anarchists.

iam not an anarchist, and it has nothing to do with it.
have you ever read something from marx, lenin, stalin and so on? or learn about the revolutions of the past? do that before you will go into such useless socialdemocratic movement.

to the other ones: dont give lenin or stalin the blame for this, they dont deserve that, whatever somebody might think of them.

[The Douche]

Yeah I am a kid I need a smart genious anarchist to tell me what really happened.And if you mark people's opinion and taking into account they are young,then I think this makes you kind of an idiot.

You're claiming that KKE didn't collaborate, but then at the same time saying people shouldn't be attacking the state. It doesn't make you look very coherent.

You're saying people shouldn't riot and shouldn't fight the state, and now it is being reported that the party you support acted on the ideas you support, they prevented people from rioting and fighting the state.

If your ideas are in line with the ideas of KKE, then it seems to me that the supposed actions of the KKE make sense, given an ideology of "no riots, no militant confrontation with the state".

[Ravachol]

What the fucking fuck?Stalinist=Not Communist?Are you serious? :cursing:

Shout all you want bro but the facts speak for themselves. I'm not even having a sectarian stab at any ideology per se (I don't care for Trotskyism either for that matter) but the concrete behavior of PAME and KKE/KNE militants on the second day of the strike, as relayed per the alternative media, is counter-revolutionary. Blocking the parliament from protesters, handing over protesters to the cops and threatening other protesters with violence if they come closer shows they effectively behave as an extension of the police. I'm not even gonna turn this into a debate about whether this behavior flows naturally from the attempts to capture state power and/or form a new state apparatus inherent to authoritarian Marxism (it does). This behavior is scandalous and counter-revolutionary and should be condemned by everyone who considers him/herself to be on the revolutionary left.

All you come up with is "It is a lie", I'm sorry but I'm inclined to believe multiple independent news sources over 1 party member.

[Commissar Rykov]

Well that killed any last strand of interest I ever had in ML. Congrats to the KKE for acting like agents of the State.

[Sasha]

And they have the nerve calling themselves marxist-leninists?

I really dont remember seeing a scene in oktober in which armed bolschevics protected the winterpallace nor one where they handed russians over to the tsarist police. Must have been edited out later... damned revisionists...

[miserable]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MESW7O43Axc

PA.ME. on the upper side of the screen.
Disgraceful day.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Oh, unrelated to the arguement,a 53 year old demonstator (from PAME) died from a heart attack while he was demonstrating.

[Commissar Rykov]

Oh, unrelated to the arguement,a 53 year old demonstator (from PAME) died from a heart attack while he was demonstrating.
You mean while pummeling the rest of the left and acting like an agent of the State?

[Kornilios Sunshine]

You mean while pummeling the rest of the left and acting like an agent of the State?
And if he was anarchist,while he was destroying a demonstration?If that's the way then most of the syndicalists in Athens,are "reactionary".

[Commissar Rykov]

And if he was anarchist,while he was destroying a demonstration?If that's the way then most of the syndicalists in Athens,are "reactionary".
Seizing parliament is destroying a demo? Good fuckin' hell.

[The Douche]

And if he was anarchist,while he was destroying a demonstration?If that's the way then most of the syndicalists in Athens,are "reactionary".

Why are you and the party you support against storming parliament? Why do you see revolutionary acts as "destroying a demonstration"?

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Seizing parliament is destroying a demo? Good fuckin' hell.
I am telling this for the last time.They attacked PAME,not the parliament.

[The Douche]

I am telling this for the last time.They attacked PAME,not the parliament.

Because PAME defended the parliament you counter-revolutionary fuck.

[Commissar Rykov]

I am telling this for the last time.They attacked PAME,not the parliament.
And why did that happen? Oh PAME was protecting parliament. This is not that fucking hard though spinning in circles like you are must be.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Why are you and the party you support against storming parliament? Why do you see revolutionary acts as "destroying a demonstration"?
If the wanted to act revolutionary,why didn't they also join our demonstrations and just have a peace demonstration?

[Commissar Rykov]

If the wanted to act revolutionary,why didn't they also join our demonstrations and just have a peace demonstration?
Wow Counter-Revolutionary rhetoric never does change. I don't know whether to be amused or disturbed that you consider yourself a revolutionary.

[The Douche]

If the wanted to act revolutionary,why didn't they also join our demonstrations and just have a peace demonstration?

Because they are revolutionaries who seek to destroy this system, not run it, which it is now blatantly obvious, is what KKE wants.

Answer my question, why are you, and the party you support, against the storming of parliament, a revolutionary act. Why is the KKE, and why are you, against revolution, and in favor of playing a docile role within capitalism by being the outlet through which workers can passively and peacefully stand around voicing their concerns to be ignored?

[CleverTitle]

This thread has taken a strange turn. I am interested in FSL's statements on the topic.


Wow wow wow, KKE just proved themselves to be reactionary fascists, defenders of the state and status quo.
Please don't throw "fascist" around so liberally. There are very real fascists involved in this whole thing, and the KKE may be a lot of things, but it certainly isn't fascist.

[Per Levy]

If the wanted to act revolutionary,why didn't they also join our demonstrations and just have a peace demonstration?

oh come on now, a peace demonstration in a class war? pame/kke had, from what i gathered, the power to take the parlament building and maybe even stoping the goverment in what it was doing in there. heck they would had been joined by the anarchists if they had done that. and they used that moment of power to fucking attack anarchist and handing people to the cops?

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Because they are revolutionaries who seek to destroy this system, not run it, which it is now blatantly obvious, is what KKE wants.

Answer my question, why are you, and the party you support, against the storming of parliament, a revolutionary act. Why is the KKE, and why are you, against revolution, and in favor of playing a docile role within capitalism by being the outlet through which workers can passively and peacefully stand around voicing their concerns to be ignored?
Because storming the parliament is nothing more in my opinion,than pure vandalism.If you call this revolution,then it is the easiest thing.Do you consider revolution something easy?

[The Douche]

Because storming the parliament is nothing more in my opinion,than pure vandalism.If you call this revolution,then it is the easiest thing.Do you consider revolution something easy?

Bolsheviks stormed the winter palace...vandals or revolutionaries?


YOU THINK A PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATION CHANTING SLOGANS IN THE STREET IS "REVOLUTION", MEANWHILE THE POLITICIANS INSIDE THE PARLIAMENT (WHICH YOUR PARTY DEFENDED) SELL THE WORKING CLASS DOWN THE DRAIN!

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Bolsheviks stormed the winter palace...vandals or revolutionaries?


YOU THINK A PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATION CHANTING SLOGANS IN THE STREET IS "REVOLUTION", MEANWHILE THE POLITICIANS INSIDE THE PARLIAMENT (WHICH YOUR PARTY DEFENDED) SELL THE WORKING CLASS DOWN THE DRAIN!
Don't write in capitals,it makes you undecent.I agree that most of the shitty MPs are against workers' power.I will tell it for the last time,they didn't have intention to storm the parliament but stop the demonstration.

[pax et aequalitas]

Don't write in capitals,it makes you undecent.I agree that most of the shitty MPs are against workers' power.I will tell it for the last time,they didn't have intention to storm the parliament but stop the demonstration.

Why the hell would they want to stop that demonstration?

[The Douche]

Hey lets all calm down and talk about this like adults.

(1) I doubt anyone in the KKE was thinking "Boy, we better support the State against the revolution". I'm not saying they are right and their reasoning could be very convoluted but it would be nice to see their side of the story too.

(2) I think we can all agree that any revolutionary organization should not be literally turning in anarchists to the police. You can disagree with Anarchist tactics without resorting to that.

(3) As the most organized and biggest opposition it would be good to see them play a more constructive role bringing all the opposition together instead of acting in a divisive manner. The last thing the left needs is a repeat of the long history of sectarian fighting between various ideological and political factions.

Bullshit, the KKE are politicians, and they want what all politicians want, to hold political power.

Just like in 68 when the PCF and her unions sold out the workers and convinced them to go back to their jobs and abandon revolution, the KKE is trying to convince workers not to carry out revolution, but to patiently and in an orderly fashion channel their rage into backing the KKE so that they can "fix" things and negotiate with the bosses.

The parties of the left and the unions are doing exactly what they have always done, recuperating the struggles of the working class and mediating their rage.

[jmlima]

Bullshit, the KKE are politicians, and they want what all politicians want, to hold political power.
....

Bingo. To sit their asses in parliament there needs to be a parliament.

[PhoenixAsh]

This is what happened.

Last week four of my friends went to Athens...three Germans, one Russian. To stay with friends to prepare for the demo. Two are ML and two are Anarchists. The MLs went to the PAME/KKE demo this morning. They went there because of the call out the PAME/KKE made yesterday and because of obviously they have ties with a lot of MLs in Greece.

The other two linked up with Anarchist friends. And they went to the square. Where PAME/KKE already was. They entered the square on the side of the square. When they entered the square they were blocked by PAME protesters. THey had discussions and there was shouting and then they got attacked by the PAME/KKE demonstrators because they were not allowed to enter the square. Thats when violence broke out...in which one of my friends got a bleeding head wound.

This was corroborated by my two friends in the PAME/KKE demonstration. They saw this happen. They indeed stated tht PAME/KKE started the attacks. When the attacks and violence continued and the cops arrived a little while later they saw PAME/KKE supporters hand over demonstrators to the cops. They saw PAME/KKE talk to the cops. And they saw PAME/KKE allowed the cops to move unhindered to attack the Anarchists who tried to enter the south side of the square and even assisting them charging side by side with them.

As one of them is pregnant and things were very heathed. They decided to move away from the PAME/KKE demo. Greek friends brought the pregnant one home. She is ok. The other guy then, having witnessed what the PAME/KKE did, decided to join the anarchists, left communists and militants. Get this...this is a Stalinist who has rejected Anarchism for decades....imagine him fighting side by side with them against the KKE. THAT says more than any PAME/KKE statement and spin on this story than anything else.

He was wounded. Not badly. At the end of the afternoon they were forced to withdraw. Because of the incessant attacks by PAME/KKE and the police. Often acting in concert.

Everybody of the group has bruises. Some have wounds. All of them are badly beaten. They will go out later this evening to continue to target PAME/KKE and the cops.


His words, though translated:

The KKE acted like what I would have expected from Golden Dawn and the proto fascists. They have sold out the workers. They have collaborated with the burgeoisie in the most vile reactionary way. These are not communists. They are PASOK waving hammers and cicles. I have lost all sympathy for the KKE. Fuck them. Fuck the cops. Fuck the state. They have chosen their side. They should burn with it.

****


What happened in Greece today is a disaster of epic proportions. Not only for the Greek workrs and population. Firts and foremost these strikes had the aim of protesting and preventing the austerity measures. THese demonstrations were for them. To save them from the economic disaster they are in and which will only deepen. What PAME/KKE did ultimately spells doom for this effort.

But secondly these demonstrations were a signal to the rest of the world. This had the potential to show the workers of the world how people could rise up and take power. To show who really is in charge. And that did not happen today. Today a faction chose to side with the burgeoisie. They attacked the militants and they openly acted in a counter revolutionary and reactionary fashion. That is the message they send out i the world today: you have no chance of changing anything. every effort you will make to take charge, to create revolution, to overthrow the capitalists will end in futility.

They fucked the workers and peope of Greece and they fucked the workers of the world.

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

Does anyone else feel totally depressed about this? I was under the illusion that KKE were revolutionary,this is like finding out that Santa isn't real. :(

[Tifosi]

If the wanted to act revolutionary,why didn't they also join our demonstrations and just have a peace demonstration?

Act revolutionary?

Your party handed people over to the pigs because they wouldn't do as they were told.

Scum.

[The Douche]

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/297374_278722155484102_118926818130304_927233_1992 467412_n.jpg

Picture of KKE/PAME supporters with their police comrades.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Act revolutionary?

Your party handed people over to the pigs because they wouldn't do as they were told.

Scum.
Yeah my little as**at you are so right!!!!

[Ravachol]

Yeah my little as**at you are so right!!!!

Believe what you want to believe, you are either on acid or delusional or both. Anyone excusing this kind of behavior by KKE/KNE and PAME militants is excusing counter-revolutionary behavior. More and more, Camatte's quote about those organisations that put the proliferation and expansion of the organisation before it's supposed goals rings true:



Prestige and exclusion are the signs of competition in all its forms; and so also among these gangs, which must vaunt their originality, their prestige, in order to attract notice. This is why the cult of the organization and the glorification of the peculiarities of the gang develop. From that point on, it's no longer a question of defending a "theory," but of preserving an organizational tradition.


The development of the KKE as the 'vanguard party' and it's ambitions to rest their ass in parliament (for which there must be a parliament in the first place!) comes before any revolutionary concerns. Following that kind of bullshit logic it becomes perfectly acceptable to work in concert with the state (almost mirroring Golden Dawn) in order to hand over people to the cops, beat up protesters and block access to parliament (sweet, sweet seat of state power to be defended from those 'unreasonable provocative proletarians' at all costs). Disgusting.

[Tifosi]

http://www.athensnews.gr/sites/athensnews/files/anarcocommie.jpg

http://www.athensnews.gr/sites/athensnews/files/beating.jpg

Here they are fighting.

[The Douche]

Don't storm parliament, the central committee hasn't called for it! Quick, call the police, the proletarians won't listen to us!

[4 Leaf Clover]

Why the hell did KKE defy anarchists... i wonder , oh i wonder...

[The Douche]

Why the hell did KKE defy anarchists... i wonder , oh i wonder...

Thats not the question. The issue is not who has a problem with who.

The issue is the KKE worked with the police to protect parliament. Now, some marxist-leninists have at least been principled and admitted that this totally fucked, others, such as yourself, are siding with the KKE, cause if you can't lead the revolution, you don't want there to be one.

And workers who want to storm parliament and attack the politicians who are trying to kill them, well, those workers are just "vandals".

Take your anti-working class bullshit somewhere else.

[His Dudeness]

Preventing an unorganized revolution by Anarchists who would make a bigger shithole of Greece then it is now seems logical to me. The KKE and PAME fought against this regime too, but seeing that all those efforts are ruined by the Anarchists is a really big disaster. I'm not stating that the KKe is a really good revolutionairy party or something (they're not), but they're still better than Anarchists who never achieved something in their history. The only thing they can do is making a lot of noise and burning banks and cars. If the Greek people want to rebuild Greece, than the Anarchists must be prevented.

But let it be clear: I'm not a big fan of the KKE either.

[The Douche]

Obviously the anti-leninism was one of the few things RAAN got right.

I really appreciate the m-ls on here who can recognize what an absurdly anti-working class action it was to defend the ruling class and fight alongside the police. But to those who care more about clinging to a tendency, even when it flies in the face of real life working class reality, fuck you, you're on the other side.

[Ravachol]

Why the hell did KKE defy anarchists... i wonder , oh i wonder...

Ah, the valiant knights of the KKE, defying the anarchist-fascist-provocateur menace by standing next to the cops, defending parliament, snitching on protesters and beating up others. What a display of proletarian valour. I bet these brave brigadiers would have stopped the bolsheviks (and that provocateur Lenin coming in from Germany per train most of all!) from storming the winter palace too.

[Sentinel]

http://www.athensnews.gr/sites/athensnews/files/anarcocommie.jpg

http://www.athensnews.gr/sites/athensnews/files/beating.jpg

Here they are fighting.

At first I just couldn't believe what I read about this days events, but these pictures seem to speak a very clear language.. This is simply outrageous, I'm at loss of words here.

Indeed this seems to give the phrase left wing of capital a new meaning. I mean it should perhaps have been expected, but I guess it's just one of the things you have to see to believe.

[Ravachol]

Preventing an unorganized revolution by Anarchists who would make a bigger shithole of Greece then it is now seems logical to me. The KKE and PAME fought against this regime too, but seeing that all those efforts are ruined by the Anarchists is a really big disaster. I'm not stating that the KKe is a really good revolutionairy party or something (they're not), but they're still better than Anarchists who never achieved something in their history. The only thing they can do is making a lot of noise and burning banks and cars. If the Greek people want to rebuild Greece, than the Anarchists must be prevented.

But let it be clear: I'm not a big fan of the KKE either.

For your information it was the autoreductionist movement "We won't pay" (who perform autoreduction actions in public transport and electricity,etc.) who tried to storm parliament first and got stopped by PAME goons. They got backup from base unions and anarchists only later on.

You don't see anarchists going around beating the shit out of ML's because they don't want to see Greece turned into a second state-capitalist gulag fest now do you? See how easy it is to spew that kind of empty rethoric? You'd rather cling to some illusion of grandeur about being the right vanguard than about revolution at all. Fuck that bullshit.

[Sentinel]

I accidentally closed this thread after splitting it when it reached 500 posts. It is now open -- sorry!

[The Douche]

At first I just couldn't believe what I read about this days events, but these pictures seem to speak a very clear language.. This is simply outrageous, I'm at loss of words here.

Indeed this seems to give the phrase left wing of capital a new meaning. I mean it should perhaps have been expected, but I guess it's just one of the things you have to see to believe.

Feels strange to me, as somebody who has often used phrases like "left wing of capital", and somebody who was in an anti-leninist organization, but who felt that to much emphasis was being put on that. To see it play out in front of my eyes, a massive "communist" organization defend the capitalist state. Not just reading about it happening in the past...its nuts. And so, so frustrating. And even more upsetting to see people on here defend those actions at all costs.

[Sentinel]

Yeah, but remember that according to the reports it wasn't all leninists, only the stalinists:


The Trotskyists helped the Anarchists and blocked attacks by the riot cops. I like this noted for everybody. Seeing as to the ongoing debates between Stalinists and Trotskyists and the continuous attacks on Trotskyists for being somehow counter revolutionary. This has now once and for all disproven.

link (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2268739&postcount=9)

[Broletariat]

I agree, but remember according to the reports it wasn't all leninists, only the stalinists:



link (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2268739&postcount=9)

ML is just a nice word for Stalinist, and we all know that.

[Comrade-Z]

Preventing an unorganized revolution by Anarchists who would make a bigger shithole of Greece then it is now seems logical to me. The KKE and PAME fought against this regime too, but seeing that all those efforts are ruined by the Anarchists is a really big disaster. I'm not stating that the KKe is a really good revolutionairy party or something (they're not), but they're still better than Anarchists who never achieved something in their history. The only thing they can do is making a lot of noise and burning banks and cars. If the Greek people want to rebuild Greece, than the Anarchists must be prevented.

An unorganized revolution...like the February Revolution of 1917? The horror!

Oh yes, the anarchists...worse than the capitalists...so side with the capitalists to protect us all from the anarchist bogeyman(!)

This feels like May 3, 1937 Barcelona all over again. Stalinist "communists" stabbing anarchists and revolutionaries in the back...what's new?

[RedPersonality]

http://www.athensnews.gr/sites/athensnews/files/anarcocommie.jpg

http://www.athensnews.gr/sites/athensnews/files/beating.jpg

Here they are fighting.


Here are the members of the movement "I won't pay"

http://www.tsantiri.gr/wp-content/media/2011/10/DSC_4249.jpg

They have nothing to do with this movement they just pass through it.

[Sentinel]

ML is just a nice word for Stalinist, and we all know that. Yes, but Trotskyists are also Leninists, which was my point. If referring to the Stalinists (in a polite fashion, with their own term) one should say 'Marxist-Leninists'.

'Leninist' means to us too, among others.

[RedPersonality]

These guys are finished from the whole workers movement.
The whole movement now are against them!
From now on things will be very differnt.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

The whole movement now are against them!

You think so.

[Broletariat]

You think so.

I sure fucking hope so.

SHhrZgojY1Q

[Kornilios Sunshine]

by standing next to the cops
Let me inform you that despite the police were behind them,the PAME stated that he did not even want the intervetion of the police,because they thought things would get worse.Οh,and inbetween the anarchists,it was stated that there were also some members of the right-wing fascist party LA.O.S.

[RedPersonality]

These chickens are attacked with stones, pieces of marble and molotov at people as the only protection was a helmet.From this any reasonable person can draw conclusions.

[RedPersonality]

You think so.

Before they start the attacks there were thousands of people protesting peacefully until they came.And they were barely 1000 against thousands.
Oh yeah,I'm sure!

[Kornilios Sunshine]

These chickens are attacked with stones, pieces of marble and molotov at people as the only protection was a helmet.From this any reasonable person can draw conclusions.
Who are the chickens?I got fuckin confused:confused:

[RedPersonality]

Also when the attacks stoped PAME had left the Syntagma square.
And what these idiots did?
Is the parliament captured and I don't know about it?
Don's support murderers!

[The Douche]

Let me inform you that despite the police were behind them,the PAME stated that he did not even want the intervetion of the police,because they thought things would get worse.Οh,and inbetween the anarchists,it was stated that there were also some members of the right-wing fascist party LA.O.S.

They didn't want police intervention but they let the pigs pass through their lines to attack and arrest workers? They didn't want police intervention but they handed workers over to the police? They didn't want police intervention but they defended the state from the workers?

KKE=class traitors.

[pax et aequalitas]

Who are the chickens?I got fuckin confused:confused:

At least that is something in which I stand with you, I don't have clue as to what the guy is trying to say...

[RedPersonality]

I am talking about the chickens with the hoods and the black outfit.
Anarchists?No...
Something like provocateurs

[Comrade-Z]

So is there any info regarding what the public reaction to this incident has been in Greece so far? Whom is the public going to support this time? Who is going to win, the revolutionaries, or the counter-revolutionary Stalinists?

[Comrade-Z]

I am talking about the chickens with the hoods and the black outfit.
Anarchists?No...
Something like provocateurs

The anarchists were "provocateurs" because they tried to disrupt parliament from assaulting the working class with austerity measures? And the KKE fought back against these anarchist "police provocateurs" by...handing over the police provocateurs to the police? You would think that wouldn't have been necessary. Funny...doesn't really make sense, does it?

[aty]

I am talking about the chickens with the hoods and the black outfit.
Anarchists?No...
Something like provocateurs
The only provocateurs is the government.
And the only counter-revolutionaries is the stalinists...


Does it feel good defending the very same men who killed your comrade today?
"It is officially confirmed by the hospital’s report that the 53-year old carried no head injuries as originally reported, and that he has died from inhaling an excessive amount of asphyxiation gas shot by the police."

[Kornilios Sunshine]

So is there any info regarding what the public reaction to this incident has been in Greece so far? Whom is the public going to support this time? Who is going to win, the revolutionaries, or the counter-revolutionary Stalinists?
Look,it kinda impresses me but even one of the journalists who clearly supports PASOK,kinda "admired" PAME for that but not in the way of supporting it clearly.The public is on his chair with his frappe.He supports neither PAME nor the "revolutionaries".At least this is what I think.Also,where the fuck AttackGr is?

[The Douche]

Look,it kinda impresses me but even one of the journalists who clearly supports PASOK,kinda "admired" PAME for that but not in the way of supporting it clearly.The public is on his chair with his frappe.He supports neither PAME nor the "revolutionaries".At least this is what I think.Also,where the fuck AttackGr is?

You think its a good thing that an individual who supports the government which is pushing through the austerity measures, supports the actions of your preferred party?

You should be embarrassed. If somebody who backed Obama told me that he thought what I was doing I would have to reconsider my actions/politics.


The KKE is on the side of PASOK and the austerity measures against the working class of greece.

[Comrade-Z]

...even one of the journalists who clearly supports PASOK,kinda "admired" PAME for that but not in the way of supporting it clearly...

I hardly think that a journalist who supports PASOK is representative of the Greek working class. Isn't PASOK almost universally despised at this point?

And how exactly do you come to the conclusion that the Greek working class supports neither PAME nor the revolutionaries? What do you think the Greek working class is looking for from all of this? How do you think the Greek working class ideally wants all of this to shake out?

[Broletariat]

Butcher the Stalinists

[Kornilios Sunshine]

You think its a good thing that an individual who supports the government which is pushing through the austerity measures, supports the actions of your preferred party?

You should be embarrassed. If somebody who backed Obama told me that he thought what I was doing I would have to reconsider my actions/politics.


The KKE is on the side of PASOK and the austerity measures against the working class of greece.
Yeah yeah ,blah blah blah blah.SYRIZA is on the side of PASOK.And you are an idiot,did I even told you it is good or bad he stated this?

[Kornilios Sunshine]

I hardly think that a journalist who supports PASOK is representative of the Greek working class. Isn't PASOK almost universally despised at this point?

And how exactly do you come to the conclusion that the Greek working class supports neither PAME nor the revolutionaries? What do you think the Greek working class is looking for from all of this? How do you think the Greek working class ideally wants all of this to shake out?
Let me tell you that most of the worker class was not even there today.Only those who vote KKE with PAME.Uh,actually many people label the "revolutionaries" as fascists and the workers as "idiots which think strike works".That is what most Greeks think.Generally,they think that things will go good when someone special becomes governor.They have more the intention to vote than to revolute.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Butcher the Stalinists
You are so respecting other's ideologies.But what else to expect from a left communist?:rolleyes:

[The Douche]

Reports stating that PAME/KKE have left the area surrounding parliament, and were protected by police as they left.


17.10 GMT+2 PAME have largely left Syntagma square, protected by cops all the way; police squads and motorcycle cops attack people indiscriminately in Panepistimiou and Trikoupi streets.

Cops have now taken over the guarding of the parliament. MPs’ votes for the new Finance multi-bill will be submitted anytime soon.

Looks like the bill will be passed, the square has been secured by the police (thanks a lot KKE).

KKE/PAME have cost the working class of Greece a lot in this situation. A lot of healthy escalation could've happened today if the struggle had been ratcheted up by the storming of parliament, but the left wing of capital has prevailed.

[Comrade-Z]

Let me tell you that most of the worker class was not even there today.Only those who vote KKE with PAME.Uh,actually many people label the "revolutionaries" as fascists and the workers as "idiots which think strike works".That is what most Greeks think.

Are these "people" workers or not. Do the workers label themselves as "idiots which think strikes work"? I could give fuck all what the petit-bourgeoisie in Greece think.

As for most workers not showing up today...is it perhaps because they don't want to be associated with KKE/PAME? What has been the level of working class involvement in the protests in general over the last month?

[Broletariat]

You are so respecting other's ideologies.But what else to expect from a left communist?:rolleyes:

I actually don't identify as a left-communist anymore.

But hey, at least I only talk about it, you fuckers actually carry out counter-revolution.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Reports stating that PAME/KKE have left the area surrounding parliament, and were protected by police as they left.



Looks like the bill will be passed, the square has been secured by the police (thanks a lot KKE).

KKE/PAME have cost the working class of Greece a lot in this situation. A lot of healthy escalation could've happened today if the struggle had been ratcheted up by the storming of parliament, but the left wing of capital has prevailed.
Yeah for sure.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Are these "people" workers or not. Do the workers label themselves as "idiots which think strikes work"? I could give fuck all what the petit-bourgeoisie in Greece think.

As for most workers not showing up today...is it perhaps because they don't want to be associated with KKE/PAME? What has been the level of working class involvement in the protests in general over the last month?
They are workers who think that to reverse the system you have to get used to it.Bullshit,in short.They do not want to be associated with KKE and PAME because they label them as "commies" like it is vagrancy.

[maskerade]

so fucking disappointed by kke

[miserable]

Yeah for sure.
Bro, give it a rest. Enough blabbering for a day.

Λες μπούρδες. Διάβαζε και σκέψου περισσότερο, πόσταρε λιγότερο. Φιλικά.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

I really, really sincerely hope Anarchist and whoever else will break your fucking bones you scumbags. Because you really deserved it after today if not before. And knowing Greek comrades there is some really hard times ahead for KKE :cool: You collaborated with the police, you proected the government from the people.. I can't even find words that would express my anger and my feelings appropiately. Glad to hear at least one scumbag died of heart attack, hopefully his comrades will follow, together with their police pig friends.

[maskerade]

You are so disgusting my shitty asshat.You only know to do this ; swear. Doesn't make you more mature.And if you want to break our bones or kill us for our ideology I will dare to say that you might be a fascist.

why were PAME and KKE defending the police and the parliament?

[Kornilios Sunshine]

why were PAME and KKE defending the police and the parliament?
They were not defending the parliament.And as for the police,they (PAME) even told them to get the fuck out,but the goverment dog cops, stayed there.

[Tim Cornelis]

They were not defending the parliament.And as for the police,they (PAME) even told them to get the fuck out,but the goverment dog cops, stayed there.

They were not defending the parliament, they were just preventing people from storming the parliament. Oh wait.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Komounistis- do you have ass instead of mouth? Because your words sound like farts.

You can say whatever you like from now on, I am ignoring you as you are clearly a retarded moron.

Just seen the footage of KKE charging demonstrators and then their attack broken off and few off them dragged by demonstrators inside their group. I sure hope fuckers got kicked to death. They definitely deserved it for siding with the pigs in uniforms. Ehh.. what would any state do without its Stalinists to protect it?
You are kind of supporting fascist because you want people to get killed just for their ideology.And what's the problem with Stalinists?

[His Dudeness]

They were not defending the parliament, they were just preventing people from storming the parliament. Oh wait.
They were defending the peacefull protesters from mindless Anarchist hooligans that came to destroy these protests. If the Anarchists want to stop the cuts, they should join the general strike and not mindlessly attack the parliament like it will make the situation better.

[Sentinel]

Flame posts split -- verbal warning to everyone. Flaming will not be tolerated. Infractions will be issued to anyone throwing insults at other users in this thread from now on.

To clarify, condemning and insulting organisations and ideologies is ok, and I'd say vey understandable in a situation like this. Flaming board users is not.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

They were not defending the parliament, they were just preventing people from storming the parliament. Oh wait.
C'mon do you really think that provocauters had the intention to storm the parliament?They wanted to stop the demonstration.PLUS that if they stormed the parliament, both some politicians some demonstrators and some anarchists would have died.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Verbal warning to everyone, flaming will not be tolerated. Infractions will be issued to anyone throwing insults at other users in this thread from now on.

To clarify, condemning and insulting organisations and ideologies is ok, and I'd say vey understandable in a situation like this. Flaming board users is not.
So everyone can say things like Fuck KKEs they should die they are traitors or Stalinism has killed.How fair.

[Comrade-Z]

They were defending the peacefull protesters from mindless Anarchist hooligans that came to destroy these protests. If the Anarchists want to stop the cuts, they should join the general strike and not mindlessly attack the parliament like it will make the situation better.

Yeah, I guess the Bolsheviks should have never mindlessly attacked the Winter Palace. They should have just called a general strike and waited until the Provisional Government stepped down voluntarily....

[pax et aequalitas]

C'mon do you really think that provocauters had the intention to storm the parliament?They wanted to stop the demonstration.PLUS that if they stormed the parliament, both some politicians some demonstrators and some anarchists would have died.

I ask again: Why would they want to stop the demo?

[Comrade-Z]

C'mon do you really think that provocauters had the intention to storm the parliament?They wanted to stop the demonstration.PLUS that if they stormed the parliament, both some politicians some demonstrators and some anarchists would have died.

Oh, some politicians would have died. The horror!

And I'm sure the anarchists were well aware of the risks they faced. You don't need to lecture them on the dangers of revolution as if they are 5 years old.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

I ask again: Why would they want to stop the demo?
To be exact,no one really knows who those who rioted were.They might be right wingers!IDK.I guess their reason would be to stop people from protesting anymore.

[Tim Cornelis]

You are kind of supporting fascist because you want people to get killed just for their ideology.

No, he wanted to see them killed for their actions. And I'm sure he said that in the heat of the moment. Also, that doesn't make you fascist.


And what's the problem with Stalinists?

Apparently, you are counter-revolutionary (no surprise there actually).


His Dudeness said:
They were defending the peaceful protesters from mindless Anarchist hooligans that came to destroy these protests. If the Anarchists want to stop the cuts, they should join the general strike and not mindlessly attack the parliament like it will make the situation better.

Ratting out fellow comrades is the way to go?

[Tim Cornelis]

So everyone can say things like Fuck KKEs they should die they are traitors or Stalinism has killed.How fair.

That's exactly what he is denouncing.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

oh, now its right wingers pretending to be Anarchists attacking the parliament.. geez, this is really getting unreal..

[The Douche]

C'mon do you really think that provocauters had the intention to storm the parliament?They wanted to stop the demonstration.PLUS that if they stormed the parliament, both some politicians some demonstrators and some anarchists would have died.

Why didn't KKE/PAME storm the parliament then? Since the thousands of people in the we won't pay movement and anarchists are all provocateurs (lol yeah right)...

Politicians would have died? Fucking good. Workers would have died? Unfortunately yes, but thats the risk you take when you decide to be a revolutionary, you accept that bad things might happen to you if you fight for a better world.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Why didn't KKE/PAME storm the parliament then? Since the thousands of people in the we won't pay movement and anarchists are all provocateurs (lol yeah right)...

Politicians would have died? Fucking good. Workers would have died? Unfortunately yes, but thats the risk you take when you decide to be a revolutionary, you accept that bad things might happen to you if you fight for a better world.
I repeat, storming the parliament is vandalism which KKE is against for.And what he do not want on a revolution is death, not force.

[His Dudeness]

Yeah, I guess the Bolsheviks should have never mindlessly attacked the Winter Palace. They should have just called a general strike and waited until the Provisional Government stepped down voluntarily....
The Bolcheviks were organised and ready to build up a Socialist country. The Greek proletarians aren't organised and ready to build up a Socialist country because they don't have a party like the Bolcheviks and a leader like Lenin. And I don't think that you can build up a Socialist state with Anarchists.

[The Douche]

I repeat, storming the parliament is vandalism which KKE is against for.And what he do not want on a revolution is death, not force.

The KKE thinks kicking out PASOK constitutes "vandalism", got it, thanks.

[pax et aequalitas]

And I don't think that you can build up a Socialist state with Anarchists.

Well at least you are correct at that. The good news is that we don't wish for one anyway!

[Anarchist Skinhead]

and I suppose its up to you and KKE to decide whether Gree proletarians are ready and since they are obviously not, KKE is going to show them their place? :laugh:

I love the bit about storming parliament is vandalism, this thread really getting some surreal qualities

[Anarchist Skinhead]

Really hope one day I will have a chance to meet some KKE members in person. Just to you know.. pass on the greetings and all ;)

[tir1944]

WTF is the KKE Doing?:confused:
Can i get any Info/Articles from their official party sources regarding all this?
Thanks.

[Decolonize The Left]

Alright everyone calm the fuck down.

It is really clear that KommounistisGR either doesn't understand what happened, or does and it trolling the living crap out of everyone here. Let's take a moment and breathe, and then wait for AttackGR or someone else who can give us more info on the scene.

It's quite clear that KKE acted contrary to the interests of the working class by protecting parliment, so let's see what is going on now rather than arguing over how counter-revolutionary they were.

Shit is fucked up. But let's not fuck this thread up (it's one of the most important threads at the moment). If you want to argue about KKE and counter-revolutionaries, etc... make another thread in this sub-section.

Don't want to play parent here but we need this thread for updates. Cheers everyone.

- August

[Tablo]

KKE just don't want a revolution unless they are in-charge.

[Tim Cornelis]

I repeat, storming the parliament is vandalism which KKE is against for.And what he do not want on a revolution is death, not force.

It's revolution. I'm not sure whether you are aware of this meaning.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

ok, I said what I needed to say, so happy to wait for more info.. and hopefully more footage of KKE scum getting the shit kicked out of them ;)

[Decolonize The Left]

Make another thread to discuss KKE and what happened. This is a news thread.

- August

[Per Levy]

I repeat, storming the parliament is vandalism which KKE is against for.

the enemys of the working class sit in this very parliament, why the hell is it vandalism to attack a place like that? its a bourgeios institution and therefor not there for the workers.


And what he do not want on a revolution is death, not force.

really? peacfull revolution? i mean hey everyone want that but the majority here is not that naive that they really think a revolution will come without violence, and i dont have a problem with force when it comes from the woring class.

[Per Levy]

Make another thread to discuss KKE and what happened. This is a news thread.

- August

thats probally best yes


It is really clear that KommounistisGR either doesn't understand what happened, or does and it trolling the living crap out of everyone here. Let's take a moment and breathe, and then wait for AttackGR or someone else who can give us more info on the scene.

yeah hopefully our greek comrades are allright and can give us more info on the situation.

[Comrade-Z]

To be exact,no one really knows who those who rioted were.They might be right wingers!IDK.I guess their reason would be to stop people from protesting anymore.

How does anarchists rioting and attempting to seize parliament stop people from protesting anymore? Are you worried that we might "scare" the state into repressing us? If so, that's the most pathetic position I've ever seen.

Here's a newsflash: the state can choose to repress us at any time it deems it advantageous. It doesn't need a legal excuse for doing so if it really feels it's pivotal to bring out the big guns. The only defense we have is our solidarity...not some pathetic tactical avoidance of scaring the state.


The Bolcheviks were organised and ready to build up a Socialist country. The Greek proletarians aren't organised and ready to build up a Socialist country because they don't have a party like the Bolcheviks and a leader like Lenin. And I don't think that you can build up a Socialist state with Anarchists.

Oh yes, the Greeks haven't fallen in line behind the KKE (or some other suitably counter-revolutionary Leninist organization) yet, so they haven't won the privilege of staging a revolution or seizing power yet. Fuckity fuck fuck fuck...trying so hard not to flame you right now....

[His Dudeness]

and I suppose its up to you and KKE to decide whether Gree proletarians are ready and since they are obviously not, KKE is going to show them their place? :laugh:

I love the bit about storming parliament is vandalism, this thread really getting some surreal qualities
As I stated before, I am not for the KKE. They are a revisionist party that messed up a revolution in 70's because they were too chicken. But still, at times like these Anarchist violence will make the situation worse. I think a general strike is a good way to fight the greek government.

And about a revolution in Greece: Just forget it, it will take years 'till there is a good revolutionairy movement in Greece who will lead the revolution and it will not be the KKE or a Anarchist movement.

[Per Levy]

The “heart” of the 2nd day of the enormous 48 hr strike mobilization was beating in the central square of the Greek capital, Syntagma Square, where the All-workers Militant Front (PAME) organized a huge rally-encirclement of the Greek Parliament . And the second day greatly surpassed the precedents of the previous strikes. The volume and militancy constituted a worthy continuation of the 1st day of the 48 hr strike. At the same time inside the Parliament, after the request of the KKE, a roll call vote was held on the articles of the government’s draft law, through which the new anti-worker measures will be implemented.

It should be noted that the attempts of provocateur mechanisms, with the toleration of the police, to strike at the edges of the people’s rally received a combative and organized response from the well-organized protection of PAME which drove back the hooded provocateurs. It is indicative that demonstrators of PAME received murderous attacks, with one demonstrator seriously injured by the attack of the anarcho-fascists. The well-organized protection of PAME effectively repelled the provocateurs and gave a combative answer to the efforts of the mechanisms of the bourgeois class to disperse the rally.

It should be noted that on Wednesday (19/10) on the 1st day of the strike the government with the majority of 154 MPs which it possesses initially passed the draft law in principle. At the same time hundreds of thousands of people(120,000 according to the police who attempted to downplay the participation) were demonstrating outside the parliament, with the forces of the class-oriented trade unions, which are rallied in PAME having, which was generally admitted even by the bourgeois media, the upper hand in terms of mass participation and militancy of the demonstrators who filled the centre of Athens, in comparison with the forces mobilised by the leaderships of the compromised trade union confederations of GSEE and ADEDY. There was a similar situation in the 70 cities throughout the country, where the forces of PAME mobilised tens of thousands of workers and carried out huge demonstrations and occupations of public buildings.

The Executive Secretariat of PAME saluted “the millions of workers, everywhere, in the private and public sector who participated in the strike, overcoming threats, blackmail, intimidation by employers and government.”

Of course, certain Greek and foreign media, seeking to hide the size of the popular anger, focused on the provocateur activity of small groups- in Greece it is well known that these groups are in excellent cooperation with the security services with the aim of dispersing the mass mobilizations. But their plans did not succeed! The protection forces of PAME once again safeguarded the mass protest of thousands of strikers and only when PAME’s demonstrators left the street in front of the Parliament did the incidents occur, on which some of the media misleadingly focused.

Also on the second day of the strike, the forces of PAME sent a message for an overall conflict with the policy of the government, the EU, the IMF. Together with the forces of the trade unions and the federations which rally in PAME, there was a large participation of students, the next generation of the working class, who demonstrated under the banners of the Students’ Front of Struggle (MAS), the Athens Coordinating Committee of the School students as well as of the self-employed and women with the banners of the Nationwide Antimonopoly Rally of the Self-employed and the small Tradesman (PASEVE) and The Greek Women’s Federation (OGE).

These forces demonstrated the opposition of the working people, the youth and the popular strata to the adoption of the new anti-people measures. They declared the opposition of the people to the new sacrifices for the plutocracy that the social democrat government calls for. They demanded: “down with the government and the parties of capital”, “disengagement from the EU-Working class-People’s power”.

The General Secretary of the CC of the KKE, Aleka Papariga, stated from the strike rally outside of the parliament: “the struggle doesn’t stop today, it is being continued. This torrent must be more turbulent, more radical, more subversive. It can sweep everything away under one condition: that they won’t steal the victory in the nick of time as has happened many times before and a big part of the people is finally trapped in illusions.

20/10/2011
http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2011/2011-10-202mera/

i bolded the part about the fights.

[His Dudeness]

the enemys of the working class sit in this very parliament, why the hell is it vandalism to attack a place like that? its a bourgeios institution and therefor not there for the workers.



really? peacfull revolution? i mean hey everyone want that but the majority here is not that naive that they really think a revolution will come without violence, and i dont have a problem with force when it comes from the woring class.
Seriously KommounistisGR, just read the last page of the communist manifesto. I actually really hate pacifists who call themselves Communist.

[pax et aequalitas]

Did I see the word anarcho-fascist there?





lol

[Per Levy]

The Bolcheviks were organised and ready to build up a Socialist country. The Greek proletarians aren't organised and ready to build up a Socialist country because they don't have a party like the Bolcheviks and a leader like Lenin. And I don't think that you can build up a Socialist state with Anarchists.

ah so partys make now revolution not workers, and if a party decides its not the right time for a revolution well suck it up workers.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

Really hope one day I will have a chance to meet some KKE members in person. Just to you know.. pass on the greetings and all ;)
And I also hope to find pictures of ypur provocauteur friends with blood on their head.

[Kornilios Sunshine]

And whoever thinks I am trolling he is either too stupid or high.

[pax et aequalitas]

Seriously the KKE seems more like comedy to me. It were the evil anarcho-fascist provocateurs!

[Kornilios Sunshine]

ok, I said what I needed to say, so happy to wait for more info.. and hopefully more footage of KKE scum getting the shit kicked out of them ;)
Meant to quote this, on my previous post

[His Dudeness]

ah so partys make now revolution not workers, and if a party decides its not the right time for a revolution well suck it up workers.
Of course the workers make the revolution, but I don't call a small group of provocateurs 'the workers'. Btw there were like 120 thousand workers outside of the parliament who didn't fight with the PAME.

Btw a revolution without leadership is worthless.

[Ravachol]

They were defending the peacefull protesters from mindless Anarchist hooligans that came to destroy these protests. If the Anarchists want to stop the cuts, they should join the general strike and not mindlessly attack the parliament like it will make the situation better.

Ironic to hear condemnations of violence coming from someone with an avatar of a DHKP/C member.



The Bolcheviks were organised and ready to build up a Socialist country. The Greek proletarians aren't organised and ready to build up a Socialist country because they don't have a party like the Bolcheviks and a leader like Lenin. And I don't think that you can build up a Socialist state with Anarchists.

If it isn't their revolution, if the party isn't "ready" (and it never is, it always postpones, "communism in 20 years" no?) then everybody has to sit THE FUCK DOWN and let capitalism be capitalism or have the choice of standing around with a PAME flag, shouting some slogans, voting KKE and going home.


I repeat, storming the parliament is vandalism which KKE is against for.And what he do not want on a revolution is death, not force.

Are you shitting me? VANDALISM? You're concerned about vandalism of a bourgeois institution? You're quite a piece of work aren't you.

Oh well, I guess the cultural revolution didn't involve "vandalism", neither did the storming of the winter palace or the sacking of the Moncada Barracks. I don't give a shit about either of those but it seems to be very dear to the ML tradition so I'm literally sitting here with my jaw on the floor at your concern for 'vandalism' and an 'orderly demonstration' over storming parliament, stopping the vote in progress and actually pushing for revolutionary tension...


Also, all the mindless drones going on about "ALL THOSE UNDERCOVER FASCISTS WHO WANTED TO STOP THE DEMO" are out of the bloody minds. It's always a covert conspiracy to you guys, a covert 'black hunderdist plot' or kronstad being financed by French imperialism and 'white counterrevolutionaries' or the May '68 protesters being 'petit-bourgeois crypto-fascists' or the Italian insurgent workers in 1977 being condmned by the PCI as 'NATO puppets'. Why don't you just join zeitgeist or some other tinfoilhat club and go ignore reality over there.

There is NO EXECUSE for collaborating with the cops and defending parliament, whether you agree with it's storming or not. Period.

[Decolonize The Left]

And whoever thinks I am trolling he is either too stupid or high.

I think you're trolling, and here's why:

1) There's first hand accounts of what happened.
2) There's pictures of what happened.
3) What happened is that a political group forcibly stopped the people from seizing parliment and handed working class citizens over to the fucking police.
4) You deny all the above in one line posts.

So yes, I think you're trolling. And no I'm not stupid, or high. If I was high I sure as shit wouldn't be arguing with you right now, I'd be out flying a kite in the park. Asshole.

- August

[His Dudeness]

Ironic to hear condemnations of violence coming from someone with an avatar of a DHKP/C member.

I'm not against violence, but I am against violence without a clear goal. The DHKP/C supports armed struggle (like every normal Marxist does), but they don't support big riots that will make the situation worse for the working class without actually achieving revolution (for example: storming of the parliament).

But I ask you: what would happen if the PAME let the Anarchists go to the parliament? Revolution? No more cuts? Just tell me.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

i think we are talking here about news etc. not what woul;d have happened and what do you think about the Anarchists, violence and armed struggle right? Mods clearly asked for it.

[thälmann]

first: i makes no sence to discuss it over and over with kke people, they are clear what they want, and that is not a proletarian revolution-

second: dont call them stalinists, they are revisionst or simply social democrats. whatever ever somebody think of stalinists, they are not the ones who dont want to attack cops etc. somebody should think about what happende with the kke in the 50s, as with many other parties after second world war.

@ his dudeness: the dhkpc dont support riots?...HAHAHAHAHA...

[thälmann]

http://www.tsantiri.gr/koinonia-kinimata/dite-pos-archise-i-machi-pame-koukouloforon-fotoreportaz.html?iframe=true

there you can see the bad anarchists starting trouble

[His Dudeness]

first: i makes no sence to discuss it over and over with kke people, they are clear what they want, and that is not a proletarian revolution-

second: dont call them stalinists, they are revisionst or simply social democrats. whatever ever somebody think of stalinists, they are not the ones who dont want to attack cops etc. somebody should think about what happende with the kke in the 50s, as with many other parties after second world war.

@ his dudeness: the dhkpc dont support riots?...HAHAHAHAHA...

Read the whole sentence before you reply. And I've been in a LOT of riots where they were in too btw.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

but i guess ones you were in were the good ones that didn't make the situation worse? :laugh:

[Comrade-Z]

Btw a revolution without leadership is worthless.

http://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/wim/wyl/socdem/redstar/redstar52.html (Leadership)
http://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/wim/wyl/socdem/redstar/redstar378.html (Once more against leadership)


But I ask you: what would happen if the PAME let the Anarchists go to the parliament? Revolution? No more cuts? Just tell me.

Regardless of the extent of its success in shutting down parliament's deliberations or even moving towards a seizure of power, at the very least it would have significantly escalated the struggle...which is something that you should want, being a revolutionary and all.

As someone else in this thread said, if you or your party doesn't think pushing the struggle this far this soon is a good idea, if you think it's reckless, you don't have to participate in it. For example, in January 1919 I might have concluded that a communist uprising in Berlin was a foolhardy suicidal death sentence, and I might have stepped aside from participating in it.

BUT that doesn't mean you take the opposite side and actively help the state crush the uprising (like the SPD did by setting the Freikorps on the Spartacists)! That doesn't mean you try to prevent the protestors from disrupting parliament! You simply step aside if you aren't going to join it.

If the KKE had merely done that, you might have faced a few voices here and there bemoaning the KKE as "cowards" or something, but the KKE wouldn't be getting attacked as if by a pack of rabid wolves like it is now. As it stands, though, the KKE deserves to get viciously attacked for being actively counter-revolutionary.

Any organization that goes beyond just stepping aside and letting the more adventurous revolutionaries have a go at a riskier strategy, and actually opposes such revolutionaries, is not acting out of fear or pessimism that the effort will be unsuccessful, but is rather acting out of fear that the action will be ALL TOO SUCCESSFUL...except without that organization's own Leninist leadership controlling it (the horror!)

[OHumanista]

Just one thing to say here, screw you collaborators. It is shameful that you call youselves communists while you defend the burgeois state and attack and help arrests those who were supposed to be your comrades.

I can only hope the MLs who are truely revolutionaries are as disgusted as I am with these news(congrats thalmann for not standing with the KKE).

[Ravachol]

I'm not against violence, but I am against violence without a clear goal. The DHKP/C supports armed struggle (like every normal Marxist does), but they don't support big riots that will make the situation worse for the working class without actually achieving revolution (for example: storming of the parliament).

But I ask you: what would happen if the PAME let the Anarchists go to the parliament? Revolution? No more cuts? Just tell me.

That isn't the question here. The PAME isn't the one to decide whether or not other "get to storm parliament" or not. If they seek to construct a parallel police force and act as such they get treated as such.

Storming parliament won't bring revolution and sitting in the mountains of Turkey with an AK-47 won't bring revolution either. Revolution and the construction of (libertarian) Communism is a far more complex process which is not something to be discussed here. The matter here is that PAME operated in concert with the police, against proletarians seeking to storm parliament (whatever you may think of that) delivering protesters into the hands of the cops and beating others from the square. What vanguardists fear most about 'big riots' is the lack of control, the lack of central discipline and the lack of a possibility for their particular group to impose it's own imperatives on the crowd. It's the traditional reactionary hobbesian "fear of the untamed man" and that says enough.

As thälmann shows it isn't even a matter of Leninism (though I think such tactics and positions eventually flow from the strategical imperatives of Leninism) but of not seeking to defend an organisation at all cost even if that means spitting on revolutionary principles. If it would have been Anarchists doing this I would have condemned them with equal, if not greater (because less expected) force.

How I would have loved it if this would have been done by SYRIZA members, holding hands and preventing people from storming parliament. The KKE fanboys here would shit their pants with cries of 'counter-revolutionaries' and 'petit-bourgeois reactionaries'. Now that it is the precious capital-P Party it's all reasonable and "die partei hat immer recht". They, in their omniscience as the guiding light of the revolution know when to storm or not to storm, when to act or not to act. And if people defy that they will work hand-in-hand with the cops to force their vanguardism down the throat of others. That's the problem, not whether it would have been 'smart' or not to actually storm parliament.

[RedMarxist]

1.I am not even in KKE.I put it in my organisation because it is the party I want to vote when I get 18.
2.They got paid millions!Haha fuckers we are richies,you are poor.I am joking.
3.What are you talking about?The anarchists were the first that started the riots.They police came after like 30 minutes or so.I also don't give a shit about lies like cop collaboration and others.

This just goes to show how "revolutionary" the KKE is. I'm an American, but from the looks of it the CPUSA is way more revolutionary then the KKE.

I don't get it. We all know that anywhere in the world, a Communist party has a 1% chance at election to position of president/or prime minster, So why protect parliament?

Lenin would be rolling in his grave if he knew what the KKE was up to.

[Искра]

I can't even comment.... This is fucking disgusting.

[Os Cangaceiros]

God this is so, soooo embarrassing...there was a real chance to make a dramatic statement and put foward the message of revolution in a powerful way, and instead what we get is images of KKE/PAME and the "koukoulofori" beating each other over the head with sticks. Pathetic.

But I guess it's just another episode of KKE's conduct towards those who may take their revolt a bit too seriously, dating back to their conduct during the December 2008 revolt. Decrying "agent provocateurs" while those very same provocateurs were making the police cower in their police stations before thousands of normally non-political people rampaging through Greek society.

Also, how the Greeks do their own revolution is their business, I don't live in Greece, but there is absolutely no excuse, in any country in the world, for leftists collaborating with the police. None. That is absolutely shameful, and anyone who took such actions should be thrown out of whatever leftist organization they belonged to, AT LEAST.

[Sentinel]

Attention! I have renamed this thread and it's purpose is now officially to discuss the events today.

A new newsfeed thread has been started for other news: Link (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newswire-greece-ii-t163044/index.html?t=163044)

[Smyg]

Summary of the recent events: Now we know who to purge.

[RedMarxist]

http://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/wim/wyl/socdem/redstar/redstar52.html (http://Leadership)
http://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/wim/wyl/socdem/redstar/redstar378.html (http://Once%20more%20against%20leadership)



Regardless of the extent of its success in shutting down parliament's deliberations or even moving towards a seizure of power, at the very least it would have significantly escalated the struggle...which is something that you should want, being a revolutionary and all.

As someone else in this thread said, if you or your party doesn't think pushing the struggle this far this soon is a good idea, if you think it's reckless, you don't have to participate in it. For example, in January 1919 I might have concluded that a communist uprising in Berlin was a foolhardy suicidal death sentence, and I might have stepped aside from participating in it.

BUT that doesn't mean you take the opposite side and actively help the state crush the uprising (like the SPD did by setting the Freikorps on the Spartacists)! That doesn't mean you try to prevent the protestors from disrupting parliament! You simply step aside if you aren't going to join it.

If the KKE had merely done that, you might have faced a few voices here and there bemoaning the KKE as "cowards" or something, but the KKE wouldn't be getting attacked as if by a pack of rabid wolves like it is now. As it stands, though, the KKE deserves to get viciously attacked for being actively counter-revolutionary.

Any organization that goes beyond just stepping aside and letting the more adventurous revolutionaries have a go at a riskier strategy, and actually opposes such revolutionaries, is not acting out of fear or pessimism that the effort will be unsuccessful, but is rather acting out of fear that the action will be ALL TOO SUCCESSFUL...except without that organization's own Leninist leadership controlling it (the horror!)

I don't think it has anything to do Marxist-Leninism exactly.

You see, years and years of parliamentary(read reactionary) participation has basically turned the KKE from a revolutionary party apparatus in 1945 in the Greek Civil War, to a reformist CPUSA-style party in modern times.

If Lenin saw what happened in Greece this very movement you can bet your butts that he would slam the KKE in his journalism.

Leninism is not inherently authoritarian. Leninism is not also inherently a bad form of Communist strategy(despite it's rocky track record thanks to Stalin and Pals) But when it becomes reformist you get what you saw today in Athens.

[CleverTitle]

I think you're trolling, and here's why:

1) There's first hand accounts of what happened.
2) There's pictures of what happened.
3) What happened is that a political group forcibly stopped the people from seizing parliment and handed working class citizens over to the fucking police.
4) You deny all the above in one line posts.

So yes, I think you're trolling. And no I'm not stupid, or high. If I was high I sure as shit wouldn't be arguing with you right now, I'd be out flying a kite in the park. Asshole.

- August
Honestly, I don't think he's trolling. He just strikes me as somewhat (or very) naive. I believe he's stated that he intends to join the KKE when he becomes old enough, so it isn't as though he's a member. Seems to me that he just has a lot to learn.

[Tifosi]

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-111020-greece-ps3.grid-6x2.jpg

It's a crying shame :(.

[Ravachol]

The members of the "I won't pay" movement who, according to one KKE fanboy here, "had nothing to do with it:

http://www.tsantiri.gr/wp-content/media/2011/10/DSC_4249.jpg

Arriving at the PAME blockade only to find them barring the way to parliament, according to some Greek comrades asking for PAME passes or otherwise barring entry. Look at the woman, clearly a hooded provocateur, ready to throw some good ol' greek fire at the brave patriots of the KKE!

http://www.tsantiri.gr/wp-content/media/2011/10/DSC_4257.jpg

Conflict begins:

http://www.tsantiri.gr/wp-content/media/2011/10/DSC_4265.jpg

Workers from various base unions asking for an explanation:

http://www.tsantiri.gr/wp-content/media/2011/10/DSC_4293.jpg

Getting the following response in baton charges:

http://www.tsantiri.gr/wp-content/media/2011/10/DSC_4320.jpg

[Искра]

Actually, now that I'm little bit calmed down and decided that I’m not gonna write how I hate Stalinists I would like just to point one thing. This event just proves how parliamentary struggle in today’s conditions is reactionary. Ok, it was revolutionary strategy ages ago (like in 19th and 20th century), but today it’s not. As we could see politicians are more concern with preserving their precious parliament, their pay checks and power then with class struggle.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Fucking awesome...Communists and Anarchists fighting each other instead of flooding parliament together. I bet the bourgeoisie is laughing their asses off wearing their top hats, smoking cigars, and sitting on their sacks of money.

Those "communists" who took action against the Anarchists are counterrevolutionaries as far as I can see and need to be dealt with accordingly as party traitors, and police collaborators.

[Искра]

Fucking awesome...Communists and Anarchists fighting each other instead of flooding parliament together. I bet the bourgeoisie is laughing their asses off wearing their top hats, smoking cigars, and sitting on their sacks of money.

Those "communists" who took action against the Anarchists are counterrevolutionaries as far as I can see and need to be dealt with accordingly as party traitors, and police collaborators.
But what to do when whole party is a traitor?

[ВАЛТЕР]

But what to do when whole party is a traitor?

Coup d'etat the party. I doubt every member of the party is a traitor, all it takes is someone willing to point out the injustice and declare the leaders as collaborators, the party will either A) Oust the traitors and collaborators restructuring itself entirely or B) dissolve and a new party will form.

Shit like this is exactly what makes the radical left so ineffective. I mean seriously? Commies are going to fight the Anarchists? This is an embarrassment for all groups involved. Especially the KKE.

[Comrade Funk]

Shameful. Wow...

[Искра]

Coup d'etat the party. I doubt every member of the party is a traitor, all it takes is someone willing to point out the injustice and declare the leaders as collaborators, the party will either A) Oust the traitors and collaborators restructuring itself entirely or B) dissolve and a new party will form.
C) Party will continute its reactionary politics just like all Comitern parties since 1921 did.

I don't believe that KKE will change it's policy. After all point of KKE is to be cool-communist parliamentary party. They'll never reject parliamnet and that is one of the key issues.

[ВАЛТЕР]

C) Party will continute its reactionary politics just like all Comitern parties since 1921 did.

I don't believe that KKE will change it's policy. After all point of KKE is to be cool-communist parliamentary party. They'll never reject parliamnet and that is one of the key issues.

So KKE = Greek version of CPUSA?

Edit: Also, notice I said "restructure the party entirely" which means turning into a revolutionary peoples party. I prefer option B though if the situation is such. Dissolve and a new party will take charge of the Communists.

[Os Cangaceiros]

21.30 GMT+2 At least 10 police squads have chased people in Exarchia Square, Solomou and Stournari streets, fired tear gas and occupied the square. Armed police have also cordoned off the whole neighbourhood.

As expected, the new finance bill was ratified.

20.50 GMT+2 MPs’ session is continued undisturbed. The entire area of Syntagma is utterly evacuated by riot police, with street traffic back to normal.

Looks like the state won, once again. In conjunction with their allies in the KKE.

[Искра]

So KKE = Greek version of CPUSA?

Probably if not worst since this was direct conflict with progressive forces of working class and direct sabotage of class war/struggle.

[Delenda Carthago]

The anarchists fucked up good today.

[Seth]

Looks like Brezhnevite treason to me.

[Искра]

The anarchists fucked up good today.
How?

[Seth]

The anarchists fucked up good today.

How did the anarchists fuck up?

[rundontwalk]

Stalin: Preventing communism from the grave since 1953.

[Seth]

Stalin: Preventing communism from the grave since 1953.

from what I know of the Greek left, the stalinists are Anasintaxi and they support the anarchists.

[The Douche]

The anarchists fucked up good today.

Its no wonder to me that you blame anarchists. I'm sure they're not to fond of you, given your past posts defending your use of sexist and homophobic language.

You have always been fond of the KKE as I recall, and I'm not surprised to see you support them now.

[Delenda Carthago]

Its no wonder to me that you blame anarchists. I'm sure they're not to fond of you, given your past posts defending your use of sexist and homophobic language.

You have always been fond of the KKE as I recall, and I'm not surprised to see you support them now.
http://tvxs.gr/sites/default/files/imagecache/node_image/article/2011/42/73408-molotov.jpg

this is the work of your favorite pricks. enjoy.

[Le Socialiste]

Fucking disgusting...how anyone could justify what happened today is beyond me. There is no (read that: NO) justification for the actions taken by the communist party. And people wonder why the revolutionary left can't gain a serious foothold amongst the general population...

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Fucking scabs.

Oh well, at least we can say that today, all the communists united...in opposition to savage cuts imposed by imperialism and enforced by the police and their Stalinist helpers.

Shows that the Stalinists would rather be in control of an impotent left movement than lose control to a successful revolutionary one.

ACAB. ASAB. Work it out.

[Delenda Carthago]

And just so you know. ANTARSYA, KKE m-l and SYRIZA defended KKE today. And these are all parties that are not in the best terms with KKE. Does that tell you something?

[The Douche]

http://tvxs.gr/sites/default/files/imagecache/node_image/article/2011/42/73408-molotov.jpg

this is the work of your favorite pricks. enjoy.

Yes, I will enjoy seeing class traitors get their due. You act as if anarchists charged up into the square attacking the KKE, when the reality is anarchists were trying to fight their way into parliament and KKE was defending their fellow politicians.

When you side with the bourgeoise this is what happens to you...

[pax et aequalitas]

And just so you know. ANTARSYA, KKE m-l and SYRIZA defended KKE today. And these are all parties that are not in the best terms with KKE. Does that tell you something?

Nope, it doesn't. I haven't heard anything from you so far that would make me reconsider the situation.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

oh, great picture. Thats what happenss to fucking collaborators.

[Rusty Shackleford]

oh, great picture. Thats what happenss to fucking collaborators.


Yes, I will enjoy seeing class traitors get their due. You act as if anarchists charged up into the square attacking the KKE, when the reality is anarchists were trying to fight their way into parliament and KKE was defending their fellow politicians.

When you side with the bourgeoise this is what happens to you...



Yes, throwing molotov cocktails at old workers is surely what must be done!

Other than that. i just found out about this now so i cant really comment on anything else but these two comments. what the fuck. They arent fascists.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Anarchist and Communist infighting-keeping Capitalism in power since the 1800s. Keep up the good work boys!

[Delenda Carthago]

Yes, I will enjoy seeing class traitors get their due. You act as if anarchists charged up into the square attacking the KKE, when the reality is anarchists were trying to fight their way into parliament and KKE was defending their fellow politicians.

When you side with the bourgeoise this is what happens to you...
Ow, you were there? I didnt saw you.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

well, there were not too old when it came to beating up people with the sticks, then they were certainly not too old to get some ol' good mollie. Fuck them.

[Rusty Shackleford]

well, there were not too old when it came to beating up people with the sticks, then they were certainly not too old to get some ol' good mollie. Fuck them.
no, you go fuck yourself. Throwing mollies into a crowd of workers is fucked up and disgraceful as well.


Seriously. WHAT THE FUCK.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

standing together with the cops against people is disgraceful. Anything after that is direct consequence. They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it.

[The Douche]

Ow, you were there? I didnt saw you.

I do know people in Greece y'know?


Yes, throwing molotov cocktails at old workers is surely what must be done!

Other than that. i just found out about this now so i cant really comment on anything else but these two comments. what the fuck. They arent fascists.

Stand with the cops against the workers and what do you expect?

[Delenda Carthago]

Even the whole "protecting the Parliament" story is SO fuckin retarded. Yesterday there were 50o fuckin thousand people on the street. Five times what it was today. There were riots for more than 5 hours. THERE WASNT A SLIGHT CHANSE THEY WOULD GET INTO THE PARLIAMENT. And that was the 500th time there was a riot in Syntagma sq.
So now, PAME,who btw called first, protected the parliament. Because the poor parliament was in such a great risk. Yeah. Right.

[Delenda Carthago]

I do know people in Greece y'know?




I m impresed.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

well, I am looking at the footage and thats what I see. Do you now want to convince me that I am drunk? That it didn't happen? That they was no big crowd of KKE scum charging people and beating them up? (and luckily getting good response)? Did we imagine all of it?

[aty]

And just so you know. ANTARSYA, KKE m-l and SYRIZA defended KKE today. And these are all parties that are not in the best terms with KKE. Does that tell you something?
Yes, that KKE have joined the other burgeoise reactionaries....

[Le Socialiste]

Ow, you were there? I didnt saw you.

AttackGr, if your 'rebuttal' to everyone who doesn't adopt the political line of your precious party is "You wouldn't know, you weren't there", then I'm certain any further debate with you would be largely pointless (and a waste of time). Good day.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Anarchist and Communist infighting-keeping Capitalism in power since the 1800s. Keep up the good work boys!

Yeah, usually the violence happens AFTER a revolutionary rupture, though...Russia 1917 and Spain 1936 both saw many instances of anarchists and socialists working together to overthrow systems of power. Also Italy during the early 20's, France in 1968, and Italy in 1969...all instances of anarchists and non-anarchist communists taking militant action together.

Beating each other up and collaborating with the police in the face of state repression is it's own special kind of sad.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

its sad but really not much of a surprise to be honest. KKE had been known to do things like that before as well.

[Delenda Carthago]

Yes, that KKE have joined the other burgeoise reactionaries....
These... "burgeoise reactionaries" have given class struggles that you only give in your sleeps lil kiddo. While they organise unions and neibourhood assemblies, you write on revleft. When they get fired or even killed by the cops, you talk with your lil homies about the bright future of revolution over tea. Have some respect godamned.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

when was the KKE member last killed by cops? I don't seem to remember instances of that for a long time. And my comrades there have only one word for them- SCUM. So no, no respect. Anybody standing in line with pigs deserves only digust and hatred.

[Delenda Carthago]

AttackGr, if your 'rebuttal' to everyone who doesn't adopt the political line of your precious party is "You wouldn't know, you weren't there", then I'm certain any further debate with you would be largely pointless (and a waste of time). Good day.
Well, maybe if we talk about 1917, I m not gonna brink that up. Now, its something that I lived, and something that you read about. No disrespect, but you need to learn your position. If I ever come and be a smart ass about the struggles you give, and think that I know better than you, please check my ass too.

[The Douche]

These... "burgeoise reactionaries" have given class struggles that you only give in your sleeps lil kiddo. While they organise unions and neibourhood assemblies, you write on revleft. When they get fired or even killed by the cops, you talk with your lil homies about the bright future of revolution over tea. Have some respect godamned.

And yet they fight in defense of the bourgeois state...

[Delenda Carthago]

when was the KKE member last killed by cops? I don't seem to remember instances of that for a long time. And my comrades there have only one word for them- SCUM. So no, no respect. Anybody standing in line with pigs deserves only digust and hatred.
Actually I was talkin about 2 KKE m-l members that got killed in a demo like 15 years ago. Let me introduce to you

http://kanali.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/iakovoskoymhs.jpg?w=162&h=200

http://kanali.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/stamatinakanellopoyloy.jpg

Iakovos Koumis, Stamatina Kanelopoulou. They are from the reactonaries party we talked about.


And yet they fight in defense of the bourgeois state...


This is who you are.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

15 years ago? long story my friend, we are talking NOW. And NOW KKE clearly chose wrong friends.

[miserable]

The anarchists fucked up good today.
Those that fucked up good today are those that did the cops' job. Everything else follows.
Και δεν σ' είχα κόψει για σταλίνα ρε φίλε...

[Wanted Man]

Unless something has changed radically, AttackGr isn't a KKE supporter at all. In fact, I recall him being one of the more anti-KKE posters on here just 3 months ago. So what is cmoney even talking about? But it doesn't take a big KKE fan to understand that a few hundred idiots attacking thousands of communist workers is going to end badly.

Of course, this doesn't exactly fit in with the usual narrative about how the glorious revolution was happening, but teh evil~!!! KKE strangled it in its infancy. That's strange, because after PAME left, apparently still weren't able to seize the parliament. Apparently, after the departure of the evil Stalinists, the millions of anarchist workers, all armed with black flags and molotov cocktails, still weren't able to beat 7,000 cops. How is that possible? :confused:

But anyway, nevermind facts, according to the new title of this thread, official Revleft consensus (TM) has already been reached. Even if it runs contrary to Greek anti-KKE anarchists. American and English Revleft anarchists know how to run a world revolution when they're not busy playing video games and watching porn, and who are we to doubt them? Of course, today was the new 1968 and teh STALINiSTS(!!)!)!)!)!!!!1111 crushed it!~1!! and that's the fucking bottom line!

[Delenda Carthago]

Supporting attacking the crowds, insulting the dead and their parties. Thats something the most scumbag that did the today's attack would ever thought. You people are worst garbages than the people who did the attack! Sweet.:drool:

[Delenda Carthago]

Unless something has changed radically, AttackGr isn't a KKE supporter at all.

Still not.

[Tim Cornelis]

Actually I was talkin about 2 KKE m-l members that got killed in a demo like 15 years ago. Let me introduce to you
.

Such appeal to emotions prove nothing. It is sad they died, true. But "dying" does not equal "revolutionary". (I am not arguing that they are "reactionary" as this word has become essentially meaningless)

[thälmann]

@ attack gr: the kke ml paper sounds more like both are bad, but i only have google translation. are there some things in english from other greek groups parties etc??

btw.: wherent you some hardcore anarchist..and now a fan of kke...big change

[mykittyhasaboner]

So were they "protecting the parliament" (which makes absolutely no sense) or their own demonstrators?

According to the LA times:


On Thursday, the protests took a deadly turn when communist activists moved to shield the mostly peaceful demonstrators from bands of black-clad extremists who previously have burst through crowds to launch attacks on police.


Fierce battles ensued between protesters and militant youths, injuring more than 40 people, three of them seriously. The worker who later died was struck with a stone in the head during the clashes. Two other workers tripped over a marble railing, falling on the canopy of a café before crashing on concrete pavement.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2011/10/greece-protests-violence.html

pictures. (http://framework.latimes.com/2011/10/19/protest-in-greece/#/0)





Just wanna get a clear idea of what happened.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

if the "parties of the dead" stand together with cops then they can expect nothing else but insults. Shall I feel respect for SA members just because some of them might have died fighting cops?
And we have seen the footage, it was no "the crowds" being attacked, it was KKE attacking people and getting just response.

[Sentinel]

But anyway, nevermind facts, according to the new title of this thread, official Revleft consensus (TM) has already been reached.


It has a question mark after it, if you look again. There is a claim that this is what happened, and now we want to know whether it is true.

From the pictures it would certainly look like that.. Red flags in the midst of the police lines and all.

But perhaps we can have these facts that actually somehow prove the contrary?

[Tim Cornelis]

But it doesn't take a big KKE fan to understand that a few hundred idiots attacking thousands of communist workers is going to end badly.

Of course, this doesn't exactly fit in with the usual narrative about how the glorious revolution was happening, but teh evil~!!! KKE strangled it in its infancy. That's strange, because after PAME left, apparently still weren't able to seize the parliament. Apparently, after the departure of the evil Stalinists, the millions of anarchist workers, all armed with black flags and molotov cocktails, still weren't able to beat 7,000 cops. How is that possible? :confused:

None of this is actually relevant of course. You do not 'sell out' your comrades, period.

Why was the KKE and PAME there? What did they want to achieve?


But anyway, nevermind facts, according to the new title of this thread, official Revleft consensus (TM) has already been reached. Even if it runs contrary to Greek anti-KKE anarchists. American and English Revleft anarchists know how to run a world revolution when they're not busy playing video games and watching porn, and who are we to doubt them? Of course, today was the new 1968 and teh STALINiSTS(!!)!)!)!)!!!!1111 crushed it!~1!! and that's the fucking bottom line!

How mature.

[The Douche]

Attackgr's politics are often in line with KKE, I've seen him agreeing with their statements plenty of times. Also there was a big fracas about him using homophobic and sexist language, which obviously is not going to make him welcome in the anarchist movement.

The parliament wasn't seized because the momentum was broken by KKE, and because the police were able to secure the square in the aftermath of the street fight.

Whether or not the parliament could've been taken, and whether or not that would've led to the glorious working class seizure of power is essentially irrelevant. What matters is that the KKE stopped workers because they didn't like the fact that they didn't have control of the situation.

Fuck anybody who tries to stifle the revolutionary drive of the working class, they're on the other side.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

amen to that! ^^^^^

[Искра]

It has a question mark after it, if you look again. There is a claim that this is what happened, and now we want to know whether it is true.

From the pictures it would certainly look like that.. Red flags in the midst of the police lines and all.

But perhaps we can have these facts that actually somehow prove the contrary?
So far, "other side" (pro-PAME and KKE) didn't provide any evidence or explain what happened or comment on pictures/videos which prove tha PAME worked with police.

[Tim Cornelis]

So were they "protecting the parliament" (which makes absolutely no sense) or their own demonstrators?

According to the LA times:

"On Thursday, the protests took a deadly turn when communist activists moved to shield the mostly peaceful demonstrators from bands of black-clad extremists who previously have burst through crowds to launch attacks on police."


Did the "bands of black-clad extremists" intent to attack the peaceful protesters or police? It seems it was the latter. So does that mean they were protecting police rather than parliament?

[Anarchist Skinhead]

why the fuck would they be attacking the "peaceful crowd" anyway? there is no precedent of that ever happening and it wouldn't make slightest sense whatsoever.

[aty]

These... "burgeoise reactionaries" have given class struggles that you only give in your sleeps lil kiddo. While they organise unions and neibourhood assemblies, you write on revleft. When they get fired or even killed by the cops, you talk with your lil homies about the bright future of revolution over tea. Have some respect godamned.
You have no idea who I am or what I have taken part in. I work for a mine-company that had the last wild strike in 2008. In a place were greater police forces could not even enter or would have any business because of the working class unity in the area. An area that always have been at the forefront and pushed demands from the working class.

[Comrade-Z]

I don't think it will be any surprise if the bourgeois media tries to spin this as "black-clad extremists attacking peaceful demonstrators." For me, though, the pics and video I've seen speak a thousand words indicating quite the opposite.

[Delenda Carthago]

You have no idea who I am or what I have taken part in. I work for a mine-company that had the last wild strike in 2008. In a place were greater police forces could not even enter or would have any business because of the working class unity in the area. An area that always have been at the forefront and pushed demands from the working class.
I know that if you were telling the truth, you would know better than calling some parties that have give struggles for decades "reactionary".

[Os Cangaceiros]

That LA Times article is incorrect. The man who died perished as a result of suffocating on tear gas, as was noted in the medical report, not hit in the head with a stone.

[The Douche]

I know that if you were telling the truth, you would know better than calling some parties that have give struggles for decades "reactionary".

They handed working class militants over to the pigs, for fucks sake...

[Anarchist Skinhead]

give struggles for what my man? I care for what I see and on top of that anybody using language such as "anarcho-fascist" in their statements and standing together with cops is on the other side of barricade. Be a nice boy and send us some more pictiures of burning KKE scumbags ;)

[Wanted Man]

Attackgr's politics are often in line with KKE, I've seen him agreeing with their statements plenty of times. Also there was a big fracas about him using homophobic and sexist language, which obviously is not going to make him welcome in the anarchist movement.

The parliament wasn't seized because the momentum was broken by KKE, and because the police were able to secure the square in the aftermath of the street fight.

Whether or not the parliament could've been taken, and whether or not that would've led to the glorious working class seizure of power is essentially irrelevant. What matters is that the KKE stopped workers because they didn't like the fact that they didn't have control of the situation.

Fuck anybody who tries to stifle the revolutionary drive of the working class, they're on the other side.

Wow, you know so much, please enlighten us. We need more US Army soldiers to tell us what's going on where we are right now. I think AttackGr could use a special course from you, since you apparently have a better idea of what AttackGr thinks than AttackGr himself. In fact, let's just purge the guy for having heretical thoughts.

[Delenda Carthago]

Attackgr's politics are often in line with KKE, I've seen him agreeing with their statements plenty of times. Also there was a big fracas about him using homophobic and sexist language, which obviously is not going to make him welcome in the anarchist movement.

The parliament wasn't seized because the momentum was broken by KKE, and because the police were able to secure the square in the aftermath of the street fight.

Whether or not the parliament could've been taken, and whether or not that would've led to the glorious working class seizure of power is essentially irrelevant. What matters is that the KKE stopped workers because they didn't like the fact that they didn't have control of the situation.

Fuck anybody who tries to stifle the revolutionary drive of the working class, they're on the other side.
Since you know so much about the situation, can you tell me who are all these workers you talk about?In which unions and syndicate they are organised? Cause last I checked, the majority (strong majority) of radical unions, are organised in PAME. Where did these "workers" are existing? The only workers that you can see on the set, are those who all you lifestyle nobodies are dissing as "reactionaries". People that never broke their will even under military dictatorships, like that old man is most likely to be. Or like the PAME worker that died today, that he was one of the most known union members in the construction workers syndicate.

[The Douche]

Wow, you know so much, please enlighten us. We need more US Army soldiers to tell us what's going on where we are right now. I think AttackGr could use a special course from you, since you apparently have a better idea of what AttackGr thinks than AttackGr himself. In fact, let's just purge the guy for having heretical thoughts.

When did I say ban him?

Resorting to personal attacks demonstrates the emptiness of you position, and is entirely inappropriate for a moderator.

[Искра]

Ok, I'm just trying to make a sense of all of this.


According to one story PAME attacked protestors because they didn’t want people to storm parliament, since PAME is KKE’s union and KKE is parliamentary party in Greece. In order to stop people from entering parliament they worked with police. Posters who claim that this story is true provided us with videos and pictures of this event. This story makes sense, because as I said in one of my previous posts, KKE is parliamentary party and they cannot have same amount of power etc. without parliament.

According to second story “anarchist-fascists” attacked peaceful people. Why? That is not said. Also, nobody from this “group” didn’t explain photos and videos showing PAME working with police and fighting with other protestors. I want to believe that I’m not dogmatic; even I despise certain left tendencies to the really radical point. So, believing this I’m always claiming that I would work with anyone who’s supporting (both in theory and practice) certain revolutionary principles etc. One of them is to know your enemy – and that enemy is always state and capital. So, I would really like to hear an explanation why would an anarchist attack someone from PAME without any reason?! I mean, struggle in the Greece didn’t start yesterday and anarchists and PAME worked together already.

To me the first story makes much more sense and there are physical evidences which support it. What happened today is fucking disgrace and I think that, unfortunately, this is a moment which will destroy radical left movement in Greece (or will push it to margins). Today state won really big battle, with help from old Stalinist beurocrats from KKE.

[tir1944]

I still don't understand what the fuck happened there?:confused:

[Delenda Carthago]

They handed working class militants over to the pigs, for fucks sake...
Really? KKE m-l, ANTARSYA and SYRIZA handed "working class militants" to the pigs? When was that man? Give us a lil something.

[The Douche]

Since you know so much about the situation, can you tell me who are all these workers you talk about?In which unions and syndicate they are organised? Cause last I checked, the majority (strong majority) of radical unions, are organised in PAME. Where did these "workers" are existing? The only workers that you can see on the set, are those who all you lifestyle nobodies are dissing as "reactionaries". People that never broke their will even under military dictatorships, like that old man is most likely to be. Or like the PAME worker that died today, that he was one of the most known union members in the construction workers syndicate.

You think everybody in the we won't pay movement and the anarchists are what? Bosses and cops? Not workers? I'm not in a union, does that mean I'm not a worker?

The worker who died didn't die from anarchist violence, its being reported that he did from inhaling to much tear gas, thats the fault of the police.


The deceased (alleged member of PAME) was hospitalized experiencing chest discomfort, atrial fibrillation and respiratory problems, and terminated due to a heart attack. It is confirmed that the 53-year-old carried no head injuries (as originally reported in corporate media, twitter, etc.). He probably died from inhaling an excessive amount of tear gas shot by the Greek police. Another likely reason would be tension during the strike, or even dehydration. However, only the findings of the doctors can give us enlightenment.


I have respect for people who fight and risk their lives for revolution. I have none for those who defend the forces of state repression.

[Wanted Man]

You think everybody in the we won't pay movement and the anarchists are what? Bosses and cops? Not workers? I'm not in a union, does that mean I'm not a worker?

So what? None of them died today, and if they did, nobody here would claim that they deserved to die.

[The Douche]

Really? KKE m-l, ANTARSYA and SYRIZA handed "working class militants" to the pigs? When was that man? Give us a lil something.


PAME/ΚΝΕ members seem to have direct contact with police officers and handed at least one (most probably anarchist) protester to the police. They also attacked insurrectionist demonstrators. Now protesters counterattack the cops and the scumbags of PAME/ΚΝΕ.

From contra.info.

[Comrade-Z]

Hmmm...maybe the KKE/PAME will fall back on the excuse that they were looking out for the physical safety of their MPs in parliament...which just goes to show you the painful dilemmas you put yourself in (protecting parliament and fighting revolutionaries) when you start dabbling in electoral politics.

And what did those KKE MPs accomplish today? Fuck all. The austerity measures passed, irrespective of the impotent protestations of a few KKE MPs. Yes, let's all pat ourselves on the back that parliament rests safe and sound tonight.

[Delenda Carthago]

According to second story “anarchist-fascists” attacked peaceful people. Why? That is not said.

Some anarchists think that they have the right to riot anytime they want to at the backs of everyone.Yesterday, when they tried to hide at some teachers block,after they had started a riot(thats the bravery that will storm the Parliament), the teachers didnt want to let them, because that would make them a target for the cops. These dudes smashed the heads of 5 of them and send them to the hospital. Thats democracy riiight?

[The Douche]

So what? None of them died today, and if they did, nobody here would claim that they deserved to die.

If you stand against the working class you pay the price. I am not repentant in my position on that. If I was killed in Iraq I would've had it coming, no?

[Delenda Carthago]

Hmmm...maybe the KKE/PAME will fall back on the excuse that they were looking out for the physical safety of their MPs in parliament...
This is the most stupid thing I ve heard tonight. And I ve heard an awful lot.

[Искра]

Some anarchists think that they have the right to riot anytime they want to at the backs of everyone.Yesterday, when they tried to hide at some teachers block,after they had started a riot(thats the bravery that will storm the Parliament), the teachers didnt want to let them, because that would make them a target for the cops. These dudes smashed the heads of 5 of them and send them to the hospital. Thats democracy riiight?
Still you haven explained everything. This sounds like Plehkanov when he is saying "anarchism = terrorism".

What was PAME doing in front of police with big sticks pointed to demostrations?

Why didn't PAME let the people go on parliament?

[Delenda Carthago]

You think everybody in the we won't pay movement and the anarchists are what? Bosses and cops? Not workers? I'm not in a union, does that mean I'm not a worker?


First of all, you are a soldier. You are not a worker for NO reason. The I m not paying movement held a distand position on the situation. So again, you FAIL.


I have none for those who defend the forces of state repression.

Really?

[aty]

I know that if you were telling the truth, you would know better than calling some parties that have give struggles for decades "reactionary".
No, because what did you think happen to people in my area as they went to help build socialism in Soviet? Hundreds of them were killed by Stalin and never returned.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

well, so far we hear about "anarcho-fascist provocateurs clad in black" and smiliar fairy tales and we see lots of footage showing KKE scum protecting the parliament and attacking the people (NOT other way around) so try to wiggle out of this now. All the stories about anarchists attacking teachers bla bla bla.. i hear this all the time and funnily enough it is always hard to prove.

[o well this is ok I guess]

I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time a communist party has suppressed a movement.