Gaddafi possibly captured in Sirte [Archive]

ВАЛТЕР

20th October 2011, 13:22

Uh, doesn't a photo of the devastation in Sirte give more credibility to the claims that Qadaffi has been wounded and captured?

No, I am trying to show the humanitarian crisis that was going on in Sirte brought about by the NATO and rebel siege. It is a war crime to hold a city under siege and prevent aid from reaching civilians, however this will be ignored by the media.

I doubt Gaddafi is captured or dead, if he is I am sure Khamis and Said will continue the fight.

thefinalmarch

20th October 2011, 13:23

Alright it just seemed to contradict what you had said about doubting Qadaffi is captured.

Leonid Brozhnev

20th October 2011, 13:27

Al Jazeera are reporting he's dead

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/10/20111020111520869621.html

edit, whups, missed the link in the first post stupidly...

danyboy27

20th October 2011, 13:30

shit i hope he dosnt die.

Manic Impressive

20th October 2011, 13:39

shit i hope he dosnt die.
why? isn't it kind of irrelevant now?

In fact a long drawn out counter revolution or possibly worse a guerilla terrorist campaign would just cost more workers lives. Gadaffi is now better off dead or in prison.

danyboy27

20th October 2011, 13:43

why? isn't it kind of irrelevant now?

In fact a long drawn out counter revolution or possibly worse a guerilla terrorist campaign would just cost more workers lives. Gadaffi is now better off dead or in prison.

Some people still like the guy in libya for various reasons, killing gadafi would just be a stupid move that could trigger more useless violence.

Leonid Brozhnev

20th October 2011, 13:43

Apparent photo of Gaddafi covered in blood

https://rt.com/files/news/gaddafi-blood-captured-photo-299/cellular-october-sirte-2011.n.jpg

https://rt.com/news/gaddafi-blood-captured-photo-299/

Manic Impressive

20th October 2011, 13:45

I would suggest that keeping him alive may cause more, while he's still alive they have their figurehead to fight for, without him who are they fighting for?

Apparent photo of Gaddafi covered in blood

https://rt.com/files/news/gaddafi-blood-captured-photo-299/cellular-october-sirte-2011.n.jpg

https://rt.com/news/gaddafi-blood-captured-photo-299/
Jesus Fucking Christ they dug up Michael Jackson

MustCrushCapitalism

20th October 2011, 13:53

I suppose it's better than going to the Hague. I do hope that Gaddafi hasn't been captured, though.

GatesofLenin

20th October 2011, 14:01

Hope the people of Libya stay firm and stop all the incoming US-backed corporations, thirsty for oil and other minerals circa new Iraq.

danyboy27

20th October 2011, 14:02

I would suggest that keeping him alive may cause more, while he's still alive they have their figurehead to fight for, without him who are they fighting for?

There is always the possibility to make a backdoor deal with him, in exchange for a house arrest to ask his supporter to stop the violence, allowing his party to participate to the next election etc etc.

Khalid

20th October 2011, 14:10

Jesus Fucking Christ they dug up Michael Jackson

What a stupid joke.

ВАЛТЕР

20th October 2011, 14:11

Those pictures looks shopped. Even if he is dead, Khamis and Said are still alive, and Khamis will probably continue the fight.

Sinister Cultural Marxist

20th October 2011, 15:13

Those pictures looks shopped. Even if he is dead, Khamis and Said are still alive, and Khamis will probably continue the fight.

It's not photoshopped, get over it, this petty-emperor has been killed-and if there really is some glorious anti-Imperialist struggle to be had in Libya or whatever it's not going to be led by Gaddafi or anyone in is narcissistic, kleptocratic, monarchic family. They are not left-wing and they are certainly not liberators, and the actions of this family is clearly responsible for causing all of this violence to begin with by abusing their power for material gain and then responding to popular unrest with savagery. With them gone, there will no longer be a common internal "enemy" to unite unsatisfied Libyans and a genuine resistance to social and economic inequality and Imperialism can emerge.

It's also odd how you bring up the devastation of Sirte as a war crime considering that Gaddafi was guilty of the equally horrible devastation of Misratah and the use of heavy artillery against civilians too? Parts of Misratah looked no different from that after Gaddafi shelled the bejeezus out of the place with his Grad missiles (presumably the weapon the rebels were also using to bombard Sirte). What happened to Sirte was tragic you are right, but the fact that it took them so long to take Sirte while Tripoli fell with ease shows the difference which having popular support in a city can mean for the defenders. Gaddafi really was popular there, whatever his faults, while in Tripoli many more people were deeply opposed to his rule meaning that their hold on the city was far more tenuous.

Funnily enough, they found a golden gun on Gaddafi. What is it with dictators and having weird, shiny, gilded weapons? Are they trying to fit the stereotype of a cheesy James Bond Villain? Do they realize how disgustingly ostentatious it is to have such an impractical weapon?

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/56179000/jpg/_56179981_56179138.jpg

Zealot

20th October 2011, 15:41

Sad...At least he kept his promise, that he would rather die fighting in Libya than run and let it be plundered by imperialists. Who wants to bet Obama would be on the first plane out of the US if it ever got attacked.

Zealot

20th October 2011, 16:09

LMFAO.

1NWkrc6MQOU

One guy shoots through his own hat (0.20), (0.59)tries to shoot without mag, one is waving around his crutches (2:42) and walking just fine, guy at 4:30 shit scared when a shot gets fired, (0.58) doesn't know how to hold the gun.

How does a band of idiots like this take down a government? They don't, NATO does.

RED DAVE

20th October 2011, 16:59

Gaddafi is probably dead.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-20/libya-forces-capture-sirte/3581908

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8838794/Gaddafi-dead-reaction-from-around-the-world.html

RED DAVE

ВАЛТЕР

20th October 2011, 17:01

The fight continues. Fuck NATO and the rebels.

Lunatic Concept

20th October 2011, 17:22

Looks pretty dead to me
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=176588135759116

Vladimir Innit Lenin

20th October 2011, 19:19

Good riddance.

Not that the NTC will do a better job.

Threetune

20th October 2011, 19:20

I call bullshit...just like Khamis was "killed" five? times now. Have you seen images as to what Sirte looks like now because of NATO bombing and rebel aggression? Looks like Stalingrad circa 1942http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/296358_223287847734418_143360419060495_614167_7556 97586_n.jpg
‘Humanitarian Aid’ NATO style.

There is nothing ‘odd about bringing up the devastation of Sirte’ as a war crime considering
that it was done by NATO and not the rebs who, it is widely understood, could not fight
their way out of a wet paper bag. The chaos in capturing and killing Gaddafi is evidence
enough on its own.

The lack of any serous attack on the imperialist crimes, whose planes ‘won’ this war, is the
clearest give away of the reactionary class position of the pro reb gang on Revleft.

Operational Media Update for 19 October 2011
NATO and Libya

20 October. Allied Joint Force Command NAPLES, SHAPE, NATO HQ
(more information: http://www.jfcnaples.nato.int/ (http://www.jfcnaples.nato.int/))

Mission
NATO took control of all military operations for Libya under United Nations Security
Council Resolutions 1970 & 1973 on 31 March 2011.
The aim of Operation UNIFIED PROTECTOR is to protect civilians and civilian-populated
areas under attack or threat of attack.

The mission consists of three elements: an arms embargo, a no-fly-zone and actions to
protect civilians from attack or the threat of attack.
Over the past 24 hours, NATO has conducted the following activities associated
with Operation UNIFIED PROTECTOR:

Air Operations
Operation UNIFIED PROTECTOR air assets continue monitoring missions over Libya.
Since the beginning of the NATO operation (31 March 2011, 06.00GMT)
a total of 26,089 sorties, including 9,618 strike sorties*, have been conducted.

Sorties conducted 19 OCTOBER: 67
Strike sorties conducted 19 OCTOBER: 16

Tablo

20th October 2011, 19:33

Yeah, Gaddafi is dead and I'm glad. Come at me bro.

Threetune

20th October 2011, 19:36

Yeah, Gaddafi is dead and I'm glad. Come at me bro.

How infectious the lynch mob mentality is among reactionaries. Ugg Ugg.

Nial Fossjet

20th October 2011, 19:40

If he didn't want it then he should have gone on exile.

tir1944

20th October 2011, 19:41

Can't find that video of dead Gadafi,but it's seriously disgusting.A pack of degenerates jumps around the corpse,screaming and kicking the dead body.
Fucking animals.
I just hope he died fighting.

khad

20th October 2011, 19:43

Bronco

20th October 2011, 19:43

Sinister Cultural Marxist

20th October 2011, 19:45

How infectious the lynch mob mentality is among reactionaries. Ugg Ugg.

It would have been better if he stood trial but if you live by the sword as Gaddafi did then you die by the sword.

I just hope he died fighting.

No they caught him hiding in a drain pipe

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/56177000/jpg/_56177994_013188907-1.jpg

Threetune

20th October 2011, 19:51

two words: Allahu akbar

الحلف الاطلسي يعد كبيرا

LuÃs Henrique

20th October 2011, 19:58

why? isn't it kind of irrelevant now?

His trial would be probably quite interesting - and embarrassing to his new enemies, as he would certainly remind them of the times they were in good relations.

Luís Henrique

Threetune

20th October 2011, 20:00

It would have been better if he stood trial but if you live by the sword as Gaddafi did then you die by the sword.

No they caught him hiding in a drain pipe

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/56177000/jpg/_56177994_013188907-1.jpg

So what? When I was an imperialist squaddy they taught us to hide anywher including under the boddies of dead women and children if nessessary. The corpses /cadavers of imperial collateral damage is a good place hide, don’t you think?

So, a Bible basher as well are you.

RadioRaheem84

20th October 2011, 20:55

Threetune

20th October 2011, 21:22

I never hated Gaddafi enough to want him dead, but certainly step down and to have been tried for turning into a quasi-Client of the West the latter half of his reign.

But to see a bunch of Islamic radicals kicking his dead body around like a soccer ball is too much. No peace will come of this.

“Peace “??? You really need to understand that imperialism has no interest in “peace”. Libya is only the latest (Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan) ratcheting up of the global war drive as an ‘escape’ from ‘democratic’, ‘consensus’ not a move towards , peace.

Belleraphone

20th October 2011, 21:29

Sic semper tyrannis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJQUShElCzE&skipcontrinter=1

brigadista

20th October 2011, 21:34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MybMKCj9m34&feature=youtu.be

i notice the black man in the truck is he next? we know how the "rebels"treat black people..

Threetune

20th October 2011, 21:51

Sic semper tyrannis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJQUShElCzE&skipcontrinter=1

Sic semper tyrannis = "thus always to tyrants." but is it true historicly?

Air Operations
Operation UNIFIED PROTECTOR air assets continue monitoring missions over Libya.
Since the beginning of the NATO operation (31 March 2011, 06.00GMT) a total of 26,089 sorties, including 9,618 strike sorties*, have been conducted.

Sorties conducted 19 OCTOBER: 67
Strike sorties conducted 19 OCTOBER: 16

Vladimir Innit Lenin

20th October 2011, 22:32

Can't find that video of dead Gadafi,but it's seriously disgusting.A pack of degenerates jumps around the corpse,screaming and kicking the dead body.
Fucking animals.
I just hope he died fighting.

Why is it disgusting? His security forces have done the same for 40 years to many, many people. Whilst I don't condone either side, he got what was coming to him and you can't be sympathetic towards such a man. If the boot were on the foot he'd gladly play the role of degenerate animal, as you put it.

Bronco

20th October 2011, 22:58

As much as I hate Gaddafi, what a fucking moronic paper this is

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2011/Oct/Week3/16093313.jpg

pastradamus

20th October 2011, 23:13

As much as I hate Gaddafi, what a fucking moronic paper this is

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2011/Oct/Week3/16093313.jpg

Pricks.

pastradamus

20th October 2011, 23:15

Why is it disgusting? His security forces have done the same for 40 years to many, many people. Whilst I don't condone either side, he got what was coming to him and you can't be sympathetic towards such a man. If the boot were on the foot he'd gladly play the role of degenerate animal, as you put it.

Yes, but your enemy is not my friend. The victims of Gadaffi atrocities would be better served by making this guy speak and get on the record. Then do with him as they must.

Vladimir Innit Lenin

20th October 2011, 23:28

Yes, but your enemy is not my friend. The victims of Gadaffi atrocities would be better served by making this guy speak and get on the record. Then do with him as they must.

I agree. I'm just saying that - the stupidity of executing him extra-jure aside - I don't think that we should feel any sympathy for Qaddafi's sorry end.

Vladimir Innit Lenin

20th October 2011, 23:28

As much as I hate Gaddafi, what a fucking moronic paper this is

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2011/Oct/Week3/16093313.jpg

Can you please not post pictures of, or links to, that paper. It's offensive. I'd not wipe my arse with it.

RadioRaheem84

21st October 2011, 03:11

Gaddafi only "deserved" what was coming to him because he actually thought there would be no consequences dipping his toes into client regime territory.

Now he knows just how disgusting and brutal imperialists can be.

What this shows me more is the level of depths the West is willing to sink to when wiping their hands clean of a supposed new partner.

They'll literally let the worse human elements possible hunt you down like a rat and kick your body when you're dead. The West/NATO brutality is unmatched. Even by someone like Gaddafi.

Sasha

21st October 2011, 03:26

How infectious the lynch mob mentality is among reactionaries. Ugg Ugg.

how about that shooting of the tzar and more importantly his complete family including the small kids? an excution directly ordered by lenin himself? care to denounce that atrocity in equal strong words?

Os Cangaceiros

21st October 2011, 03:26

I'm torn on this one.

On the one hand, his death is pretty meaningless to me. One scumbag down doesn't mean much at all, in the larger context...there are plenty o' scumbags running around out there who deserve similar fates, including the assets of western gov's in Libya, the Islamists and the former colonel's ex-buddies in the TNC. Some scumbag will just replace him and continue the scumbaggery.

However, I also enjoy seeing Anti-Imperialists get butthurt, so it's a wash. *sigh*

Threetune

21st October 2011, 12:58

how about that shooting of the tzar and more importantly his complete family including the small kids? an excution directly ordered by lenin himself? care to denounce that atrocity in equal strong words?

You should offer your evidence to the Russian investigators.

“No proof Lenin ordered last Tsar's murder”

“A long-running probe into the murders of the last Russian Tsar and his family has closed after failing to find evidence that Lenin ordered the killings, the chief investigator has said”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/8264321/No-proof-Lenin-ordered-last-Tsars-murder.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/8264321/No-proof-Lenin-ordered-last-Tsars-murder.html)

I have denounced imperialist “shock and awe” blitzing, the nationalist religious rebs and ‘Murdock’s Marxists’ on Revleft, lining up alongside his Sun newspaper to add their bits of bellicose bile. No surprise there.

The “tyrants” are still running the planet from Washington, Rome, London and Paris, preparing to unleash more mayhem and the best that the ‘lefts’ can do is moralise or gloat over another reb lynching.

Can’t wait to see if any of the ‘lefts’ join in with the NTC “he was killed in crossfire” sanitising campaign now under way, telling us that they couldn’t even manage to guard their most important prisoner. To busy posturing for the world’s capitalist press and TV perhaps while NATO does the crucial slaughtering of the heroic defenders in the city.

Sinister Cultural Marxist

21st October 2011, 16:32

‘Humanitarian Aid’ NATO style.

There is nothing ‘odd about bringing up the devastation of Sirte’ as a war crime considering
that it was done by NATO and not the rebs who, it is widely understood, could not fight
their way out of a wet paper bag. The chaos in capturing and killing Gaddafi is evidence
enough on its own.

The lack of any serous attack on the imperialist crimes, whose planes ‘won’ this war, is the
clearest give away of the reactionary class position of the pro reb gang on Revleft.

You lack any serious analysis of the nature of Gaddafi's government and where the rebellion came from.

As for this shelling of Sirte and how its a war crime, lets agree that what happened to Sirte was bad-then you must recognize that Gaddafi's army did the same thing to Misratah. Was it really fine when Gaddafi used heavy artillery against civilian areas in Misratah but a crime when the rebels and NATO shelled Sirte ... ?

http://www.vntop100.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/news_Libya-Misrata-port.jpg

http://www.vntop100.com/world-news/libya-misrata-port-shelled-despite-nato-effort/

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/resize/index/id/258711/w/300/h/225/site_1_rand_277320467_libya_misrata_l_110505_aap.j pg

http://feb17.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Tripoli-Street-Misrata.jpg

Threetune

21st October 2011, 20:35

You lack any serious analysis of the nature of Gaddafi's government and where the rebellion came from.

Ye, like this.

American media silent on CIA ties to Libya rebel commander
http://wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/hift-m30.shtml (http://wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/hift-m30.shtml)

Threetune

21st October 2011, 22:36

The BBC’s Wyre Davies reported:
“This is almost a scorched earth policy. The pro-Gaddafi fighters defending this city won’t surrender, so Sirte is being systematically destroyed, block by block. Fighting is intense, incredibly destructive, and almost mind-numbing.” Reporters for the British Telegraph described Sirte as a “squalid ruin” that is “reminiscent of the grimmest scenes from Grozny, towards the end of Russia’s bloody Chechen war.”
http://wsws.org/articles/2011/oct2011/pers-o19.shtml (http://wsws.org/articles/2011/oct2011/pers-o19.shtml)

"All those responsible for the Libyan war ought to be charged with war crimes—beginning with Obama, Cameron and Sarkozy. These figures launched an unprovoked war of aggression, which was the principal charge laid against Germany’s Nazi leaders at the war crimes tribunal in Nuremberg. NATO claimed authorisation for the war in Libya on the pseudo-legal basis of UN Resolution 1973—but the “no fly zone” terms of this document were immediately flouted as soon as it was adopted."

Void

21st October 2011, 23:19

Gaddafi was accused of crimes he never has committed. The UN Resolution was totally a circus. UN is a circus.

His death was planned, he was shot after the lynch / torture. He was shot in the head from close distance autopsy report says. Certainly someone ordered, did this. He could be kept alive if wanted... easily.

They just did not want him to stand trial, they were afraid of his speeches.

I simultaneously watched BBC and a middle eastern TV channel when Gaddafi gave his first speech after the provoked rebellion against him started.

The middle eastern TV channel casted his whole speech but BBC ceased casting his speech whenever he criticized western imperialism and showed other scenes gave advertisements etc.

Threetune

21st October 2011, 23:50

Come on you suckers admit it, you lined up like fluffy ducklings behind the imperialists butchery of Libya. That’s where your anti-communist liberal fake ‘left’ idealism got you. Read more Lenin!

skizzy

21st October 2011, 23:59

To be honest, I never had a problem with him.
They lied about crimes he didnt commit.

He took a country that had nothing, and made sure everyone have a place to live and food to eat, even before his own family. Free education, healthcare and farmers got free land to work on.

He had his issues, and he was a little out there, but I supported him.

Belleraphone

22nd October 2011, 02:15

I'm amazed there are so many Gadaffi sympathizers in this thread. The Libyans I've talked to, even before the civil war and Arab Spring, said he was pretty brutal.

RadioRaheem84

22nd October 2011, 02:17

I'm amazed there are so many Gadaffi sympathizers in this thread. The Libyans I've talked to, even before the civil war and Arab Spring, said he was pretty brutal.

Well it was a civil war, it depends on who you talk to.

Threetune

22nd October 2011, 10:15

I'm amazed there are so many Gadaffi sympathizers in this thread. The Libyans I've talked to, even before the civil war and Arab Spring, said he was pretty brutal.

“Support” or “Condemnation”

Any one on here can speak for themselves about “support” or “condemnation” of anything in human culture from there individualist perspective, on the one hand this, on the other hand that, but it’s not the best way to understand the world politically.

Unlike individualist approaches, “support” and “condemnation” of the national bourgeois governments is not the priority for communism.

The priority is what is in the interests of the entire working class population of the world and that priority is the DEFEAT of imperialist interests, first and foremost, the smashing of their dictatorship by working class dictatorship.

Simply put, in the continuing and inevitable fights between capitalist and imperialist interests we are always for the DEFEAT of the ‘greater’ threat, the biggest enemy of the working class, and joining in with their attacks will only strengthen them. That does not require us to “support” their current enemy either.

The only perspectives we “support” are communist perspectives, politics, and practice.

Anything else will lead into the camp of reaction and into the service of imperialism one way or another as evidenced by the reactionary confusion of the idealist, individualist, moralising ‘lefts,’ who appear to believe that their personal “conversion” to ‘socialism’ is sufficient cover to “condemn” anyone and anything they don’t like without regard for the wider consequences.

skizzy

23rd October 2011, 01:49

this is an interesting video to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwmZNfK01Is

Its not the best, but I found it interesting.

Vladimir Innit Lenin

23rd October 2011, 11:29

aristos

23rd October 2011, 12:58

Wait a second, so you don't even support the "social-democrat" benefits that Libyans received? :confused:

Why are you a communist then?
Do you believe in puritan morality of working hard and living harshly?
Surely you support historical worker's struggles that had the procurement of such benefits as their core demand? :confused:

aristos

23rd October 2011, 13:03

When all is said and done - it sure is a sign that Gaddafi was not the brightest guy around, when he so easily lost the civil war and let himself be killed to boot.

scarletghoul

23rd October 2011, 13:10

When all is said and done - it sure is a sign that Gaddafi was not the brightest guy around, when he so easily lost the civil war and let himself be killed to boot.
Yes he was so easy to defeat that it required the most powerful military force in the world to constantly bomb the whole country for seven months. This is not a civil war.

aristos

23rd October 2011, 14:36

This is not what I meant. As you correctly state his main opponent were not the rebels but NATO. How much damage did Gaddafi inflict on NATO? None.
Also the rebel faction has won, given the financial resources and popular support (as well as support of many African states) Gaddafi wielded it was a crushing defeat. An intelligent strategist in his place would have predicted the escalating involvement of NATO and thus understood the futility of open symmetrical warfare.

skizzy

26th October 2011, 20:50

So you're essentially a Social Democrat.

Well done you.:thumbdown:
All I was saying is , he was against US imperialism, improved a country and we bombed the hell out of it. I supported him though all of this.. What does that have to do with my political alignment?

Threetune

29th October 2011, 23:29

With the exception of some daft comments about a War Crimes Tribunal for NATO leaders for crimes against humanity, and omissions on the reactionary role of China at the UN, this essay by James Petras is a good summation of events so far.

NATO’s War Crimes in Libya: Who Grieves for the Fallen Heroes?
“If the destruction and occupation of Libya marks a time of infamy for the NATO powers, it also establishes a new awareness that a people can struggle and resist 6 months of intense, massive bombings from all the NATO powers. Perhaps when their heroic example becomes clear and the fog of media propaganda is lifted, a new emerging generation of fighters can vindicate the battle of Libya, as a continuation of the struggle for the definitive emancipation of the Afro-Arab and Islamic peoples from the yoke of Western imperialism.”
http://petras.lahaine.org/?p=1872 (http://petras.lahaine.org/?p=1872)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Petras

Threetune

29th October 2011, 23:45

how about that shooting of the tzar and more importantly his complete family including the small kids? an excution directly ordered by lenin himself? care to denounce that atrocity in equal strong words?

I was wondering if you managed to find that evidence that the Tsar’s execution was “directly ordered by lenin himself”. You will appreciate such evidence would be of enormous interest to many readers here, if you have it. Care to post it up for us?