Greece on the brink, a mater of days

[Lenina Rosenweg]

The situation in Greece seems like it may be reaching some sort of a climax within the next few days. Savage austerity is being forced on Greece despite the fact that Greek default is regarded as a certainty.A strike of Athens garbage collectors is set to be broken with the aid of the army and there is the possibility of an armed clash.Much of the state in becoming inoperable with occupations of government ministries.

It does not appear that the revolutionary left is as of yet capable of moving the oppressed layers forward, there is a feeling of despair combined with societal collapse.The unions have been holding the working class back, preserving the state but their ability to play this role appears to be rapidly eroding.

There are rumours of Euro Gendamerie Force military personnel being called to Greece in the days ahead, There are rumors of some sort of emergency government being set up as well as rumors of a military coup.

What are the possibilities of civil war/revolution/some sort of NATO or Euro occupation? It seems the situation may develop rapidly.

http://www.marxmail.org/msg96658.html

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/oct2011/gree-o19.shtml

For what its worth, good luck and success to all Greek comrades in the period ahead.

[CynicalIdealist]

:(

[Paulappaul]

I hear these prophetic words about Greece every month I swear. :rolleyes:

[Os Cangaceiros]

I thought this was gonna happen the last time people were on strike, teargas filled the streets and people were rioting.

Which was, what, last week?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Hey, I'm just paraphrasing an article now on Counterpunch. I did think for a time that after Papandrou militarized the sanitation workers, on the brink of the 13nth general strike in a year this might be "it".Its not the same situation but I thought, baring something to lead the working class forward in, to put it bluntly, a seizure of power, anything could happen. I should know better.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/10/19/greece-on-the-brink/

[Os Cangaceiros]

Someone on OL posted this:


I am shure it will be the same procedure like every strike: Big Demonstrations, some fightings with the police and the parlament will vote for more saving measures. Thats all.

[Le Socialiste]

While Greece has certainly been in turmoil since the onset of the financial crisis, the savage attacks wrought and enforced by the ruling elite (both domestically and regionally) has resulted in a sharp increase of working-class push back and militancy. The evolution of what has become a crisis of confidence surrounding the legitimacy of the government and the financial elite has contributed greatly to how the ruling parties respond to the threat of a united workers' revolt, with the state relying more and more on armed intervention instead of the mere threat of it. It reflects the increasing desperation of the domestic political-financial class, as well as the self-appointed "troika" (the IMF, ECB, and EC). Revolution might not be around the immediate corner, nor can we accurately determine which way a future uprising might end up leaning. What we do know is that the workers of Greece are becoming increasingly militant in how they formulate their demands and how they act on them.

[CornetJoyce]

Hey, I'm just paraphrasing an article now on Counterpunch. . I should know better./ (http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/10/19/greece-on-the-brink/)

Well, we live not by ouzo alone but by fantasy.

[Le Socialiste]

Well, we live not by ouzo alone but by fantasy.

Come again? :confused:

[Delenda Carthago]

You motherfuckers are so lazy, you cant even wait watch a revolution becoming reality.:lol::lol::lol:

[CornetJoyce]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/blog/2011/oct/19/european-debt-crisis-shares-rally

More information about the Athens protests from Helena Smith, who says a "draconian" security operation has been imposed. However it was members of the communist party who impose the early order on the crowd, before the situation deteriorated.
One man, a contract worker in the public sector, summed up the mood saying "unfortunately, the time has come for blood to be shed. Every time we protest peacefully more cuts are made and they are always at the expense of workers, never those who are to blame for the crisis. As one of our great singers said, it's only with fire and knives that men progress. People will have to die if we are going to stop these dreadful policies."
Had it not been for militants from the immensely disciplined communist party forming a human chain around the parliament, it is likely that the seething mass would have attempted to storm the building early on. As it was, clashes broke out as soon as riot police started firing tear gas to keep the crowds at bay with hundreds of protesters physically pushing their way up to the great marble steps of the parliament building itself.
Clearly fearing the worst, the Greek government has mounted a draconian security operation with riot police from two crack units guarding parliament. Demonstrators, however, guided by unions, have vowed to remain in Syntagma overnight in the hope that a mass show of people power will persuade parliamentarians to reject the measures when they are voted on article-by-article tomorrow.
In the long-running saga that has gripped Greece it very much feels as if crunch time has come.

[jmlima]

...

Had it not been for militants from the immensely disciplined communist party forming a human chain around the parliament, it is likely that the seething mass would have attempted to storm the building early on. ...


Who would have guessed, the communist party preventing a revolution that they did not organize... :laugh:

oh history, will the human being never learn anything from you?...

As to Greece, there's no critical mass for revolutions these days, everyone is too busy tweeting.

[A Marxist Historian]

You motherfuckers are so lazy, you cant even wait watch a revolution becoming reality.:lol::lol::lol:

Hey look, I've been pretty critical of your KKE, but I would like nothing better than to find out I was wrong.

This situation requires revolutionary leadership, and the KKE is certainly in position to provide that if it wants to, being the historic party of the Greek working class.

So just what is the KKE saying now? Is there a KKE statement you could translate for us ignorant Anglo-Saxons? Or maybe one in English already?

It's time to fish or cut bait. Which is the KKE doing?

-M.H.-

[thälmann]

they have an english webside. but dont read it, its mostly bullshit. " except some big papers about economy etc.

[KTRFFH]

Can anyone tell me why the Communist Party are defending the Greek parliament?:confused:

[pierrotlefou]

Who would have guessed, the communist party preventing a revolution that they did not organize... :laugh:

oh history, will the human being never learn anything from you?...
.

Maybe because storming the building at this point in time like a bunch of unorganized idiots is a terrible idea?

[Welshy]

Maybe because storming the building at this point in time like a bunch of unorganized idiots is a terrible idea?

Yeah because the KKE/PAME couldn't have provided organization to the mass of people storming Parlement instead defending the state and trying to maintain order. Seriously, KKE supporters need to learn about the concept of self-criticism. Greece has the potential to be something that can inspire revolutionaries and the working class everywhere and the KKE is flushing that chance down the toilet.

[PhoenixAsh]

KKE has acted like counter revolutionary and reactionary collaborators of the system today. They fucked the workers and people of Greece and they fucked the revolutionary left world wide.

That is what happened.

[jmlima]

Maybe because storming the building at this point in time like a bunch of unorganized idiots is a terrible idea?

Yes, a truly dreadful idea...

Much better idea to work for the parliament eh?...

[Decolonize The Left]

Maybe because storming the building at this point in time like a bunch of unorganized idiots is a terrible idea?

What.... the.... fuck....

There are no words for the stupidity of this claim. None. Maybe the Greek people should sit around and make daisy-chains of hope so that they can give them to the politicians in order to make change?

- August

[Hit The North]

The strategy of the KKE appears to be to pose as the saviour of the Greek State.

[Le Socialiste]

Maybe because storming the building at this point in time like a bunch of unorganized idiots is a terrible idea?

Please tell me this is just another case of Revleft sarcasm gone bad.

When has any major revolution been highly organized? You cannot plan a revolution out step by step; revolutions remain highly spontaneous forms of action. While the build-up to such an event is more often predictable than not, the act of a working-class uprising cannot be packaged so nicely. When the mass of the working-class takes to the streets, it is a clear signal that a revolutionary situation may not be far behind (granted, this all depends on the beliefs of the workers involved, as well as the possibility of non-reactionary forces within the movement). No party, union, or organization that isn't run democratically by the workers themselves in a bottom-up fashion has a claim to the goals and aspirations of the workers - they can only try to shape and mold the movement to suit their 'revolutionary' vision. By blocking parliament, the communist party exposed themselves as siding with the interests of the Greek and European ruling-class(es). Any party or organization that claims to be an adherent of revolutionary leftism but blocks the efforts of the toilers during potentially revolutionary situations has no place in the broader movement for self-emacipation.

[Delenda Carthago]

KKE has acted like counter revolutionary and reactionary collaborators of the system today. They fucked the workers and people of Greece and they fucked the revolutionary left world wide.

That is what happened.
Really? What do you know. I didnt saw any workers attacking KKE today. I saw some scum "anarchists" attacking the blocks of PAME with molotovs,dynamites and rocks before they got their asses beaten by the guard of PAME blocks.

http://tvxs.gr/sites/default/files/imagecache/node_image/article/2011/42/73408-molotov.jpg

Is this the work of the working class? Or some thugs?

[Delenda Carthago]

The workers were those that called for the 48hour strike, organised it, worked all the previous week to promote it, went on every massive work place and guarded the strike. Now, who was that? Was it the anarchists? Hmmmmm... no. It was PAME. The reason people were there in the first place was PAME. Anarchists did nothing but show up at the demo asking to, just as always, riot. But this time they had to attack innocent workers. Foul shit. No bs.

[Le Socialiste]

Really? What do you know. I didnt saw any workers attacking KKE today. I saw some scum "anarchists" attacking the blocks of PAME with molotovs,dynamites and rocks before they got their asses beaten by the guard of PAME blocks.

http://tvxs.gr/sites/default/files/imagecache/node_image/article/2011/42/73408-molotov.jpg

Is this the work of the working class? Or some thugs?

This is the second time I've seen you post that picture. As far as I'm concerned, those who were helping the police in protecting parliament had that coming. They fought on the side of the Greek and European ruling-class, which amounts to the highest form of treachery. Quit defending the actions of an organization that is clearly vested in maintaining the existing modes and structures of class oppression on the part of the ruling elite.

You call those who act against your party thugs...that says all I need to know about you and your view of the class struggle.

[PhoenixAsh]

Really? What do you know. I didnt saw any workers attacking KKE today. I saw some scum "anarchists" attacking the blocks of PAME with molotovs,dynamites and rocks before they got their asses beaten by the guard of PAME blocks.

http://tvxs.gr/sites/default/files/imagecache/node_image/article/2011/42/73408-molotov.jpg

Is this the work of the working class? Or some thugs?

As you may have noticed this happened while friends of mine were there. Their stories from the PAME block...and these are ML's...were the PAME refused entry to other protesters and then attacked them. Which coincides perfectly with the stories of other friends who were on the opposite side and the first to get beaten off the square by PAME thughs.

APME were being a bunch of reactionary tools. And they got attacked for their actions later. Which was fully deserved and my ML friends fully supported and participated after what they witnessed PAME doing when they marched with them.

So yeah...I have no idea what you think you can spin here. But IMO they fully got what they deserved. Reactionary fucks.

[Delenda Carthago]

This is the second time I've seen you post that picture. As far as I'm concerned, those who were helping the police in protecting parliament had that coming. They fought on the side of the Greek and European ruling-class, which amounts to the highest form of treachery. Quit defending the actions of an organization that is clearly vested in maintaining the existing modes and structures of class oppression on the part of the ruling elite.

You call those who act against your party thugs...that says all I need to know about you and your view of the class struggle.
This is the second time I post the picture and you still defend burning an old man. Something that even in athens.indymedia is being heavily critisised.Thats how pathetic lowlife you are.

[PhoenixAsh]

The workers were those that called for the 48hour strike, organised it, worked all the previous week to promote it, went on every massive work place and guarded the strike. Now, who was that? Was it the anarchists? Hmmmmm... no. It was PAME. The reason people were there in the first place was PAME. Anarchists did nothing but show up at the demo asking to, just as always, riot. But this time they had to attack innocent workers. Foul shit. No bs.

Innocent my fucking ass. They prevented militants to get to the parliament. When they got there they were blocked by the PAME scum. After a discussion for about 20 minutes PAME thugs attacked the group that arrived first. One of my friends got beaten pretty badly. And my other friends who were in teh PAME demo saw this happening.

Then they proceeded to whole day to cooperate with the cops and protecting the parliament.

Fuck the "we organised this shit" argument.

[Delenda Carthago]

As you may have noticed this happened while friends of mine were there. Their stories from the PAME block...and these are ML's...were the PAME refused entry to other protesters and then attacked them. Which coincides perfectly with the stories of other friends who were on the opposite side and the first to get beaten off the square by PAME thughs.

APME were being a bunch of reactionary tools. And they got attacked for their actions later. Which was fully deserved and my ML friends fully supported and participated after what they witnessed PAME doing when they marched with them.

So yeah...I have no idea what you think you can spin here. But IMO they fully got what they deserved. Reactionary fucks.
You have friends in PAME that supported the attack against PAME.What do you know... Where they fond of the nationalists that were together with the anarchists?
Td1nOjqm3L4
Let me explain what you see right here. PAME had called first and announced the surrounding of the Parliament. Leftists and anarchists made the call later, while they knew that they would fall on the same time and place with PAME. PAME was at the upper side, anarchists were on the down side of Syntagma. At some point, anarchists had enough with not rioting and they marched on the upper side of the square. They started throwing bottles at PAME, they started cursing them, spit on them, shout at them, kick them. At a point they started throw rocks at the people. Not at the guard, at the people inside the block. Next thing you know, they got chased. At all this, you tell me you had friends that supported that. OK...



You are messing a very good picture of you I had in my mind to be honest dude.

[PhoenixAsh]

PAME/KKE broke the backs of this strike. They sold out. Period. There is no argument you can make for the action they took to be justified. They blocked the path ro parliament and they refused entry of the true revolutionaries.

They behaved like Golden Dawn: protectors of the system.

These are the words of Marxist Leninists who were at the PAME demo and saw first hand what happened this morning. This is not my Anarchist opinion. This is what Marxist-Leninist told me what they saw PAME doing. And these people have very little sympathy for Anarchists. But when they decided to join the anarchists because they were appalled by the reactionary and counter revolutionary sentiments expressed and shown by PAME....yeah....well that is all the evidence I need. And it would be all the evidence you would need to if you knew these people.

But instead you defend, with sob pictures, the actions which broke this demonstration and which broke any chance of stopping what they are doing to the Greek workers and people.

You know what is a real tragedy? Not that some reactionary old dude got hit by a molotov, I am sorry for him, but the fact that working class got betrayed...not only in Greece but the world over.

Somebody mentioned the majority of people in Greece not believing in the strike. Somebody sauid they did not believe it would matter. And PAME/KKE just proved them right.






So basically I trust them over any KKE/PAME

[Delenda Carthago]

They prevented militants to get to the parliament.
Yeah like they did yesterday where there was no PAME to stop them. Riiight.

[PhoenixAsh]

You have friends in PAME that supported the attack against PAME.What do you know... Where they fond of the nationalists that were together with the anarchists?
Td1nOjqm3L4
Let me explain what you see right here. PAME had called first and announced the surrounding of the Parliament. Leftists and anarchists made the call later, while they knew that they would fall on the same time and place with PAME. PAME was at the upper side, anarchists were on the down side of Syntagma. At some point, anarchists had enough with not rioting and they marched on the upper side of the square. They started throwing bottles at PAME, they started cursing them, spit on them, shout at them, kick them. At a point they started throw rocks at the people. Not at the guard, at the people inside the block. Next thing you know, they got chased. At all this, you tell me you had friends that supported that. OK...



You are messing a very good picture of you I had in my mind to be honest dude.


My group consists of various tendencies. Several marched with PAME/KKE sinced yesterday....since they are MLs. They were there this morning. At the side of the demo. There were little cops at the location. PAME demo halted and simply stood there.

When Anarchists and other demonstrators arrived at the side of the square near where they were standing.

PAME militants blocked their acces to the square. There was no violence yet. They simply refused to let then in the square. There was shouting. Some of the PAME and anarchists were having a debate which turned very heathed and then several of the PAME group attacked the anarchists/militants.

To make it perfectly clear to you what my ML (and previous PAME) sympathisers said: PAME militants struck the first blow after first blocking the square.

Two of my other group members were in the group that arrived at the square with the first arrivals. THey were blocked. Then after some debate for several minutes they were charged by PAME militants. The girl in that group got hit on the eye. And the guy got hit by a stick on the head casuing a bleeding wound.

Thats when they fought back. There were only molotovs several hours after the initial skirmished happened. Which was a retaliatory attack mounted by Anarchists.

The two people in the PAME demo...saw this happening. Police arrived several tens of minutes later. And they coordinated with PAME. They saw people of PAME talk to the cops. They saw PAME let police pass through their demo. They saw PAME hand over people to the cops.

That is when they lost all faith in the revolutionary character of PAME/KKE. That is when they decided to leave. Together with some Greek friends who also were appalled by what happened.

And yes...they absolutely joined against PAME after that. That is something which should tell you about the impact what PAME did. These are Marxist-Leninists who previously thought of Anarchists as misguided children. The guy is a fervent supporter of Stalin and has been for 20 years. If he decides to join Anarchists then you know whatever he joins against is bad news. He would never ever support anarchists over ML's

His opinion: PAME/KKE broke any chance of a revolution by cooperating with the system. They broke any chance of change. They broke any chance of taking controll in favor of the workers.

There were NO nationalist elements in the group who first arrived at the square in the morning. Maybe later there were. But that is in no way an excuse for PAME/KKE behaviour.

[PhoenixAsh]

Explain to me how PAME could be present for several hours without any significant police presence and do NOTHING...just fucking stand there....

The police arrived AFTER the first clashes.

So basically PAME just fucking stood there with their thumbs up their asses looking all very impressive but doing fuck all except for being present.

[aristos]

If this proves anything - it is that when (if?) the revolution comes, it will not come via any of the established "revolutionary" organizations. They are, by this point, too invested in the status quo.

[Delenda Carthago]

Explain to me how PAME could be present for several hours without any significant police presence and do NOTHING...just fucking stand there....

The police arrived AFTER the first clashes.

So basically PAME just fucking stood there with their thumbs up their asses looking all very impressive but doing fuck all except for being present.
You know, in countries where a communist party is not something that you and your best buddies pretty much are, a party of 7,5%(thats what KKE got in 2009) attacking the Parliament, is a revolution. Not this that you and the prementioned friends are playing, but a real shit situation. Where thousands of people can get killed, jailed, exiled, beaten up, raped etc. You dont fuck around with these things. You dont start some shit if you think you cannot take this to the end. KKE dont believe that it is possible. And since they organised that shit, and they called first for the spot today, I say,lets not impose to them something in order just to jave some fun for a while. And I say, even if you disagree, lets not give the pleasure to the System to dirt the biggest strike ever. Lets end this and think about the next day armed with all that experience. But no. Some people HAD to this the other way. They HAD to riot because thats what they do. They dont organise the working class, they dont try to influense people. They burn stuff. Now they got burnt. Shame. At least they can claim heroic status in revleft.

[PhoenixAsh]

You know, in countries where a communist party is not something that you and your best buddies pretty much are, a party of 7,5%(thats what KKE got in 2009) attacking the Parliament, is a revolution.

Yes...exactly.


Not this that you and the prementioned friends are playing, but a real shit situation.

yeah....those friends I am talking about are not playing at anything. Those people have been in the forefront of just about every major radical revolutionary and left wing event in the last 15 years in Europe and Russia. Some of them even on a global level. I have lost more friends than I can count in anti-fascism and revolutionary actions. And I have my own fair share of battle scars.

Do not lecture me about what I am "playing at" or what understand and what they understand.

Unlike the PAME/KKE they are fucking serious at fighting capitalism and they do not shrink back from some brutality if necessary to reach a goal. And they sure as hell will not stand i the way of people who think they can do a good job at attacking capitalism....eventhough they may feel they will not be able to carry it out to the full extend.

What PAME/KKE did today was counter revolutionary and reactionary. They collaborated and became class triators....all because they didn't like where their little "protest of banners and shouts and posturing" was going.

Revolution is serious bussiness. And there is no place for people who fuck around and at the last minute turn traitor because they have a "feeling"...and then help perpetuate a system which kills people daily, which jailes people, exiles people, beats people and slowely lets people starve to death robbing them of any humanity. The system that sells out the working class on a daily basis. That fully supports imperialism and that fully acknowledges the importance of money over people and manages a system where kids can starve to death in order to prevent profit margins for the banks and corporations.

KKE/PAME fully supported that system today. They aided the system and the system laughed all the way to the bank. Next time the system knows who to turn to.

All they planned to do was stand there and be pretty and look impressively revolutionary with their surrounding of parliament. Waving flags, carrying banners and shouting empty slogans. THey did NOTHING to prevent the stooges of the burgeoisie to do exactly whaty they set out to do. They did fuck all to counter what they capitalists and the Troika want and they did fuck all to fight for the people of Greece....and when push came to shove they chose the side of counter revolution, of collaboration and of reaction.

And all this because THEY were afraid. THEY didn't lead the whole affair. Because THEY had called first spot. And because THEY had organised their little strike.

Sorry b uty the people of Greece got fucked by PAME/KKE today. Like fuckikng hipster posers they simply stood there and did nothing except when the real revolutionary and militant forces arrived. Then they fisted revolution.

The very least these reactionary fucks could have done iof they do not believe in revolution was go home and let those who do have the balls and pussy to do what it takes take the lead.




Where thousands of people can get killed, jailed, exiled, beaten up, raped etc. You dont fuck around with these things. You dont start some shit if you think you cannot take this to the end. KKE dont believe that it is possible. And since they organised that shit, and they called first for the spot today, I say,lets not impose to them something in order just to jave some fun for a while. And I say, even if you disagree, lets not give the pleasure to the System to dirt the biggest strike ever. Lets end this and think about the next day armed with all that experience. But no. Some people HAD to this the other way. They HAD to riot because thats what they do. They dont organise the working class, they dont try to influense people. They burn stuff. Now they got burnt. Shame. At least they can claim heroic status in revleft.

[Delenda Carthago]

Your words touched me. Now I see the true spirit of revolution. Now I m gonna be like your friends. Global revolutionary that dont bite his balls or pussy when it comes to revolution. Goodnight. You ve opened my eyes before I go to sleep, but I ll be fine.

[No_Leaders]

I love how some people try to justify KKE/PAME actions. These KKE scum are traitors just like the PCE were traitors during the Spanish Civil War. Just another Stalinist group who likes to spout some nice sounding rhetoric and slogans, yet works feverishly against revolution in favor of asserting their dominance. Fuck these class collaborators siding with the state. Just like PCE sided with the Civil Guard during the may day riots and rounded up anarchists and marxists. Shows how Stalinists never change and will always stand against revolution. They continue to give communists a bad name and perpetuate the stereotype people have of communists. KKE/PAME succeeded, they showed their true colors. Looks like the State can now count on KKE along with Golden Dawn to crush the anarchists.

[Rocky Rococo]

Well it's all good as long as KKE and PAME can protect the cushy political sinecures of their elected members of parliament from those dirty filthy rabble in the streets. Those "anarchists" need to get jobs and take a bath, and I'm sure the fine people of the KKE has pointed this out to them more than once. Like any other respectable bourgeois party of political power, the first obligation of the KKE is to serve as a trade union of its elected officeholders. Everything and anything else comes later, much later. I think they'd fit fine in the Obama administration which pretty much reflects the same views and values.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Great... now PAMe and KKE offices are being attacked. Im starting to think that 'point' may be soon. really soon.