Ugly People

[tir1944]

What do you think about the (widely-spread) discrimination based on looks?
How do leftists feel about the discrimination of Ugly People and how are we supposed to deal with it?

[Manic Impressive]

What's ugly? In reality away from the glossy magazines attractiveness is completely subjective. Some people may find me ugly, I'm definitely not stereotypically attractive but plenty find me very attractive. Now fat people are discriminated against but so are very skinny people, so are people with facial disfigurements or disabilities. Are they ugly? I don't think so and most will find at least one person in this world who finds them attractive.

[Nox]

Don't be hating on us ugly people.

Discriminating ugly people is discriminating based on genetics. Exactly the same as racism, sexism, homophobia...

[khlib]

What a thought-provoking question, tir1944. IMHO, ~*beauty*~ is a social construct. HOpe that helps!

[Susurrus]

To be honest, I think disapproval of obesity and being overweight is warranted if there's no medical cause. It's not a good thing to be fat, and people should work to get in shape(I am fat myself. I'm working on getting in shape, though with very little discipline).

[Magón]

Ugliness is completely subjective, as Manic Impressive said. My thinking of what's beautiful and what's ugly, is completely my own. I don't find Angelina Jolie for example, to be beautiful or pretty, I find her rather ugly with all the work she's had done, but there are plenty of people I know, who disagree. I find Penelope Cruz to be beautiful, but some think otherwise.

As for people who are fat or skinny, it's again subjective to how people think/see others. My friend dates large guys, and I don't care, she likes them with some extra fat on them. My other friend likes skinny girls with little fat, and I'm fine with that, even though I probably wouldn't date them.

[Manic Impressive]

To be honest, I think disapproval of obesity and being overweight is warranted if there's no medical cause. It's not a good thing to be fat, and people should work to get in shape(I am fat myself. I'm working on getting in shape, though with very little discipline).
screw that dude as long as you're happy with your body then who gives a fuck if you're fatter than the next person. The only person who should be passing judgement on your body is you and that works the other way around as well in not passing judgement on how others choose to look. You've also got to consider that many people who are morbidly obese are that way because they are depressed. Others may be totally fine with their appearance and just enjoy eating and drinking whatever they like, until some prick comes along and looks down on them for their weight. Who cares, it's no ones business how they choose to look except theirs.

I've also noticed here in the UK the government started giving a shit about how fat people were when it started to become an issue with how much it costs the NHS and they're completely honest about their motivation being economic. Fat people are not profitable to UK PLC so lets demonize them and make people pressure them to fit into a generic way of looking.

[#FF0000]

To be honest, I think disapproval of obesity and being overweight is warranted if there's no medical cause.

Fat-shaming is not a good way to make people lose weight btw

[Susurrus]

Fat-shaming is not a good way to make people lose weight btw

Well obviously no, but saying that fat is a good thing isn't a good thing either. It causes all sorts of problems. Though I bet obesity will go down by a huge degree after the revolution, due to the vanishing of the societal causes of obesity.

[khlib]

I don't find Angelina Jolie for example, to be beautiful or pretty, I find her rather ugly with all the work she's had done, but there are plenty of people I know, who disagree.

FYI Angelina Jolie has not had ANY plastic surgery

[xub3rn00dlex]

Well obviously no, but saying that fat is a good thing isn't a good thing either. It causes all sorts of problems. Though I bet obesity will go down by a huge degree after the revolution, due to the vanishing of the societal causes of obesity.

I completely agree. I am trying to bulk up myself, and during this process my cholesterol levels are out of balance. Being fat shouldn't be demonized since it actually may depress people into hopelessness and over eating. I like being fluffy, it gives me the wiggle room to indulge here and there yet still remain relatively healthy. Also, i find fluffy women to be some of the most attractive women out there ( i'm a big booty man haha ) the biggest obstacle to weight is the insane fucking expenses associated with eating healthy. My mom works in a supermarket and she saw first hand how prices doubled and even tripled over the past 4 years.

[Agent Equality]

Well I think it really is just preference based on attractiveness. I remember there being research done that people are nicer to better looking people and stuff like that. I don't see how that's possible as I am usually nice to anyone regardless if they are ugly.

But it might have merit as I often times find myself being nicer to women I find as more attractive than other women (although i treat most guys the same, so i guess its just who you're attracted to)

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Like khlib said, beauty is absolutely a social construct. There are plenty of women I find attractive that my friends don't and vice versa. I'm much more attracted to women who have a little extra fat on them (I call it 'healthy thick' even though it's not that 'thick') than I am women who look so skinny they're sickly and frail.

However, on the subject of overweight and obese people, teasing and discrimination DOES NOT WORK HOLY SHIT. I'm not saying anyone here said this ... but I've met some people who thought teasing might make them go work out. Like one of my ex-girlfriends. I don't understand the logic.

I've gotten a few people to get into jogging or better diets or riding bikes in order to lose weight, but I've always been really, really nice about it. In order to get someone motivated it takes phrasing working out to make it sound fun. Like saying "Hey man, I have an extra road bike. Wanna go ride with me? It's fun as hell bombing hills." Then you go and ride with them a few times and they realize how much better they feel afterwards. Then they keep doing it. I mean, it doesn't ALWAYS work, but it does more than sending them into a depressive spiral with taunts and discrimination.

xub3rn00dlex: food stamps, man! I've convinced a few of my friends to get on food stamps. Shit, why wouldn't you if you qualify ... $100-200 a month of free food from the grocery store? Shit, stock up on fruits, vegetables, lean meats, legumes, etc ....

[Apoi_Viitor]

I don't understand why people are claiming that attractiveness is so subjective. Your culture by and large determines what/who you find attractive. Sure there's going to be slight variation between each person (and small minorities of people which have completely different views), but for the vast majority of people those "glossy magazines" are what's beautiful.

[Commissar Rykov]

I know my depression helped put some weight on though I am working on getting it off while trying to figure out why soda is so tasty. Goddamn you soda companies.:laugh:

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I don't understand why people are claiming that attractiveness is so subjective. Your culture by and large determines what/who you find attractive. Sure there's going to be slight variation between each person (and small minorities of people which have completely different views), but for the vast majority of people those "glossy magazines" are what's beautiful.
Do also you deny that gender is a social construct, even though gender roles seem to be uniform across most modern societies aside from slight variations? Most modern societies have similar concepts as to what is considered "Masculine" or "Feminine", does this make these concepts any less artificial?

I'm not trying to attack you; I'm trying to see if your beliefs are uniform or varying on the idea of what is a social construct and what isn't.

[Magón]

FYI Angelina Jolie has not had ANY plastic surgery

I believe she's had some injections of botox or whatever the latest shit is. Maybe not often, but I wasn't talking about things like a facelift or something like that.

[PhoenixAsh]

I am sorry...but AJ has had plastic surgery done before the age of 17. Rhinoplasty. I know she says she didn't but then that would have to be some miraculous transformation.

[black magick hustla]

you can be "fat" and be healthy btw.

[Zealot]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. ;)

[ВАЛТЕР]

If somebody judges another human being based on their looks then they have not matured enough to be reasoned with. I doubt anybody over the age of 13 judges others by their looks. (Except for those fashion freaks and celebrities, but they are dumb asses to being with so no need in even stressing them.)

[#FF0000]

Well obviously no, but saying that fat is a good thing isn't a good thing either. It causes all sorts of problems.

No doubt.

What I see a lot (and experience myself) is people getting all down on themselves for being fat because they feel they're less attractive or something because of it. It's really not true -- my weight really hasn't done anything to hurt or keep me from having meaningful relationships and I don't think that weight necessarily makes someone more or less attractive.

In that sense, it's a neutral thing. Someone is fat. So what.

But you're absolutely right on the health thing. I'm trying to lose weight right now, not because of poor body image (a bad reason, I think, to want to lose weight in the first place), but because of my family's long-ass history of diabetes and heart disease.

[heyjoe]

my face having put the ug back in mug should make me an expert but really i have no idea of what you could do about it except to lead by example.

[Ballyfornia]

If somebody judges another human being based on their looks then they have not matured enough to be reasoned with. I doubt anybody over the age of 13 judges others by their looks. (Except for those fashion freaks and celebrities, but they are dumb asses to being with so no need in even stressing them.)

I'd have disagree. I'd say a majority of people who have been in secondary education will have been either subjected to it or witnessed it.

[Apoi_Viitor]

I'm not trying to attack you; I'm trying to see if your beliefs are uniform or varying on the idea of what is a social construct and what isn't.

I said that beauty was a social construct, but that it's not subjective. Your culture sets standards of what is beautiful and what is ugly, and for the most part, people within the culture accept these standards.

[eyedrop]

If somebody judges another human being based on their looks then they have not matured enough to be reasoned with. I doubt anybody over the age of 13 judges others by their looks. (Except for those fashion freaks and celebrities, but they are dumb asses to being with so no need in even stressing them.)

How can anyone possibly believe this? Well with such a perception of reality it does kinda explain how some people think Stalin was a great fella.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I said that beauty was a social construct, but that it's not subjective. Your culture sets standards of what is beautiful and what is ugly, and for the most part, people within the culture accept these standards.
I see what you're getting at now. Interesting. And I agree with you.

[Quail]

I've seen statistics (although I can't remember where so they could be completely inaccurate) that "attractive" people are more likely to get jobs than "unattractive" people. I'm not entirely sure how the data for that would even be collected though. The definition of "attractive" or "ugly" is cultural. The only reason we favour some looks over others is that the society we live in does. The standards of beauty in the UK and the US have changed a lot during the 20th century. You can see this in the way people are depicted and the way that actresses, actors, models, etc. tend to look over time. I think today's beauty standards are incredibly fucked up. Most pictures of celebrities have been photoshopped on top of using lots of make up, flattering camera angles, etc. so the people you see in magazines or on billboards are kind of just caricatures of what society thinks should be beautiful.

I can see why people might not find morbidly obese or emaciated people attractive. At such extremes, those people are unhealthy and their diet is likely to be having negative health effects which show on the outside. I think I look reasonably good most of the time, but when I get unwell and my weight drops I look absolutely terrible. Dark circles, bad skin and hair, etc just don't look good.

[Rooster]

Aristotle, in his Ethics said this about ugliness:


[A happy man] needs the external goods as well; for it is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts without the proper equipment. …there are some things the lack of which takes the luster from happiness, as good birth, goodly children, beauty; for the man who is very ugly in appearance or ill born or solitary and childless is not very likely to be happy…

[Zav]

Beauty is subjective. I say fuck it. Appearance isn't import to people who aren't conformist idiots.

[Manic Impressive]

I said that beauty was a social construct, but that it's not subjective. Your culture sets standards of what is beautiful and what is ugly, and for the most part, people within the culture accept these standards.
beauty or attractiveness is subjective but the subjective opinion is impacted by a societal standard. If beauty was not subjective and everyone was only attracted to the societal norms that would mean that there are a hell of a lot of people who are not attracted to their partners, seeing as not many people look like the people in the glossy magazine.
Perhaps your experience is different from mine but from the people I know none of them find the fake tan, bleached hair and huge fake... nails look very attractive. Although that is what is presented as the standard of beauty for women to aspire to.

[ClearlyChrist]

Beauty Will Always Be In The Eye Of The Beholder. What Society Considers Beautiful Now, May Be Considered Horrendous At A Later Date.

[The Man]

"Dont let em' say you ain't beautiful. They can all get fucked, just stay true to you." - Eminem

As long as you think you're beautiful, than you are. But in the end, screw physical looks, it matters what you are in your personality.

[Misanthrope]

Judging anything other then sexual encounters based on looks is silly.

[Fawkes]

I doubt anybody over the age of 13 judges others by their looks.

You really need to get out more then. Everybody judges people by their looks to varying degrees. Literally everybody, including you and I.

[Blackscare]

I'm not into shaming fat people or being mean to "ugly" people or whatever, but I'm a little confused about what exactly people here are "against". Is it discrimination to not find someone attractive? How you could oppose "it"? Force people to start conversations with people they normally wouldn't? I'm not being rhetorical or whatever, I'm really just wondering what this "discrimination" is. I think it's clear that people are always going to have their aesthetic preferences and it will always subtly impact human interaction. Jim Gaffigan did a funny bit about ugly people and he made an observation that I think is true with a lot of people; when a stranger who is attractive smiles at you you probably get a little bounce in your step and smile back, when an ugly stranger smiles at you you think "what the fuck does that guy want?". How, or even if, that sort of thing could be addressed is sort of a mystery to me.

[Niccolò Rossi]

The mind boggles

[Le Libérer]

*Notices the quick jump from "ethically how to deal with ugly people" to associating ugly with fat.

[xub3rn00dlex]

*Notices the quick jump from "ethically how to deal with ugly people" to associating ugly with fat.

While i see what you mean, weight plays a major role in society's vision of ehat's beautiful and what isn't. I don't think leftists necessariy associate being fat with being ugly, we just recognize society today views these two as pretty much one in the same.

[DarkPast]

*Notices the quick jump from "ethically how to deal with ugly people" to associating ugly with fat.

In modern western society at least, fat = unattractive (usually). And it's now becoming true even in societies that previously viewed large body size as neutral or positive.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1372032/Fat-people-world-stigmatised-lazy-unattractive.html

[hatzel]

Rumour has it that the most 'beautiful' person is the most average person...

Case in point: 'beautiful' 'average' 'people' (http://www.mediadump.com/hosted-id167-average-faces-from-around-the-world.html)

[Aloysius]

Being a) a fat-ass, b) a pizza-face, and c) a high school student, I can say that what passes for beautiful these days is rather fucked up.

I'd also like to point out that obesity isn't the only social stigma attached to perceived ugliness. Acne has been demonized, as well. It's all a matter of how one percieves themselves. I, for one, have decided that if I were to slim down a little, and put some actual effort into getting rid of my acne, I'd be rather handsome.

Alas, I'm fucking lazy...so that'd probably not happen for a while.