Controversy surrounding Che Guevara

[roy]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what do the majority of Che Guevara supporters have to say about the actions of which is he accused, such as the execution of innocents or at least people who most would not think deserving of execution?

Do you believe that it's simply propaganda designed to sully the name of communism or do you think that these actions were justifiable, at least in part? Or am I completely on the wrong track?

I'm not saying whether or not he really did commit these actions and I'm not here to judge people's opinions; I'm just curious.

Thanks

[Smyg]

Define innocents. Most of the executions I've read about where those of traitors, deserters and enemy soldiers... in war, especially a dirty guerrilla war, most of Che's supporters would say that certain things have to be done.

[Seth]

You know, Smyg, innocents. Like Glenn Beck's sob story about that Cuban military officer.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

their are two storys, the exaggerated ones, and the not exaggerated ones
things must happen, or the revolution could be compromised
just like war communism

[eric922]

You know I heard somewhere that Texas governor Rick Perry has executed more people than Che did. Just something to think about when right-wingers bring up Che's executions. Of course, I'm not sure if that is true or not, but I think Che is only documented to have executed around 180 and they were officials of the Batil regime.

[Zealot]

Can we see the source of these people who were undeserving of execution? As far as I know, Che executed traitors, war criminals and the like and so some people like throwing around the word "murderer" to describe his actions. What do they expect? Maybe they think we should be having tea parties with war criminals and traitors, no thanks.

[RED DAVE]

I am not concerned so much about the executions themselves and whether or not the victims were innocent or guilty. I'm reading a book about Che right now, and I think that under the circumstances they were pretty careful.

What concerned me now and at the time was the effect of the executions on public opinion, especially in the US. Frankly, they put off a lot of people who were or could have been supporters of the revolution.

The effect on opponents of the revolution was nil: there was an invasion 2 1/2 years later by people who were not deterred by the executions.

The militant supporters of the revolution hopefully didn't need to get their rocks off against their old enemies.

I think if the trials had been undertaken more slowly, with more legal care, things would have been much easier for the revolution in the long run. I think that the eagerness for the executions did not help the cause. It should be a lesson to future revolutions to avoid this kind of thing whenever possible, and it was possible.

RED DAVE

[Art Vandelay]

I am not concerned so much about the executions themselves and whether or not the victims were innocent or guilty. I'm reading a book about Che right now, and I think that under the circumstances they were pretty careful.

What concerned me now and at the time was the effect of the executions on public opinion, especially in the US. Frankly, they put off a lot of people who were or could have been supporters of the revolution.

The effect on opponents of the revolution was nil: there was an invasion 2 1/2 years later by people who were not deterred by the executions.

The militant supporters of the revolution hopefully didn't need to get their rocks off against their old enemies.

I think if the trials had been undertaken more slowly, with more legal care, things would have been much easier for the revolution in the long run. I think that the eagerness for the executions did not help the cause. It should be a lesson to future revolutions to avoid this kind of thing whenever possible, and it was possible.

RED DAVE
This is what I have thought as well. Are you by chance reading John Lee Anderson's biography? I would have to say, as someone who as an adolescent was infatuated with the stories of Che, that is probably the best and most thorough book available and it also is quite unbiased.

The thing that bugs me about these accusations against Che are that what took place in Cuba post revolution at La Cabana were pretty standard war trials. They make it seem as if Che had a thirst for blood and was executing anyone for no reason. Truthfully there were only a few hundred executions, not thousands as some make it out to be, and those executed had were war criminals; guilty of murder, torture, rape etc.

As far as how quickly those executions took place post revolution, it is undeniable that they were hurried, however you cannot overlook the anger felt by the Cuban population towards the Batista government. The average citizens had been enslaved by these men and it is no wonder why there were citizens chanting for these men to die.

While the situation could of been handled much better, the fabrications against Che and the others involved are ridiculous. I can not recall the quote exactly but JLA once said that in the 3 (?) years he was in Cuba and Miami investigating the events at La Cabana he could not find any evidence to suggest that Che had an innocent man executed.

[The Jay]

I'm about two hundred pages into that book myself, just before he boards the grandma. It's a very good book.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Well, most of the people who condemn Che's alleged indiscretions do not condemn other similar acts...case in point, once I showed a right-wing pro-Vietnam War individual the famous photo of a suspected Viet Cong operative being summarily executed in Saigon, and his response was, basically, "well, that's war for ya!" Che executed deserters, but so did the Continental Army under George Washington. Che's wartime conduct doesn't say that much about him or the ideology he supported.

That said, I'm not really the biggest fan of Che or his ideology, but that's for different reasons than the executions. (I'm also opposed to the death penalty, but I realize that it happens in war/revolutions.)

[Iron Felix]

To execute Batista's death squads is an admirable thing to do. Accusations of excess when it comes to Che are without grounds.

[Rafiq]

Do you think Che killed people for fun or something? What interest would that man have in executing innocent people? Che did what had to be done.

[RED DAVE]

Do you think Che killed people for fun or something? What interest would that man have in executing innocent people? Che did what had to be done.No one is accusing him of that. What some people, myself included, are saying is that the manner in whch the trials and executions took place damaged the reputation of the revolution abroad.

RED DAVE

[Seth]

On the other hand, the Cuban people wanted blood.

[RED DAVE]

On the other hand, the Cuban people wanted blood.Then it should have been the task of the revolutionary vanguard, of which Che was a party, and he was the supervisor of the tribunals and executions, to explain that this was not a good thing.

One more time, this is not about guilt or innocence. Let's assume that for practical purposes every one of the defendants was guilty. It is/was about defense of the revolution. I believe this caused was damaged by the manner in which the trials and executions took place.

RED DAVE

[roy]

Do you think Che killed people for fun or something? What interest would that man have in executing innocent people? Che did what had to be done.

No, I don't. I didn't say that I thought that. I have no idea what interest a man would have in executing innocent people. I'll leave that up to serial killers and the like to know.

I simply asked what people think about the claims that he killed or had executed non-combatants who disagreed with his political views, etc. Obviously, there are those who say he did. I don't believe them, but I'm not going to get into an argument over the credibility of sources. I'm not qualified to do that, which is why I asked for people's opinions.

[Geiseric]

Well during a revolution things are gonna get bloody, however Che at least tried to prevent the wrong people from dying. Of course they were non combatatants, as all coward bourgeois oppressors are. The people they killed took part in a system that executed tens of thousands of Cubans to try putting down revolution. However Castro arrested a bunch of like Trotskyists and anarchists, and Che let them out of prison because he knew they were his comrades. But he wasn't stupid enough to just be a serial killer. He was a politically educated man, with an intense passion for what he believed in. He was Stalinist at times, however you can't really blame anything on one person.

[roy]

I getcha. I was referring to people who weren't taking part in the regime, but I haven't seen any solid evidence that he just liked executing random people or anything like that. Given my resources are very limited, I still seriously doubt it. Of course he wasn't infallible, though.

Cheers

[MustCrushCapitalism]

You know I heard somewhere that Texas governor Rick Perry has executed more people than Che did.

Of course. Texas executes people for sneezing on a sunday, doesn't it? :P

[Bardo]

No one is accusing him of that. What some people, myself included, are saying is that the manner in whch the trials and executions took place damaged the reputation of the revolution abroad.

RED DAVE

It's amazing what some people accuse him of. I've had debates with people claiming that he was a blood thirsty genocidal maniac who killed random citizens for the thrill of killing. I've heard arguments that his goal was to initiate a nuclear holocaust, that he was a racial purist, all kinds of ridiculous nonsense.

They always seemed to cite Humberto Fontova as the sole source of these claims.