World-wide anti-capitalist demonstrations

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/10/2011101515123592784.html


Violence broke out in Rome as tens of thousands nicknamed "the indignant" marched in European cities in protest against capitalism and austerity measures.
As the "Occupy Wall Street" protests went global on Saturday, some protesters in Rome smashed shop windows, torched cars and attacked news crews.
Black smoke billowed into the air in downtown Rome as a small group of violent protesters broke away from the main demonstration. They smashed car windows, set vehicles on fire and assaulted two news crews of Sky Italia, the TV reported. Others burned Italian and EU flags.
http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/imagecache/218/330/mritems/Images/2011/10/4/201110413227523734_20.jpg (http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/spotlight/occupywallstreet/) In depth coverage of US financial crisis protests
Witnesses said the violence was caused by several dozen hooded radicals known as "black blocs," who infiltrated the demonstration. At least one person was reported injured and taken to hospital.
Police were out in force in Rome, which expected up to 100,000 protesters a day after Premier Silvio Berlusconi barely survived a confidence vote. Italy, with a national debt ratio second only to Greece in the 17-nation eurozone, is rapidly becoming a focus of concern in Europe's debt crisis.
The protests that began in Canada and spread to cities across the US has now moved to Asia and Europe, linking up with anti-austerity demonstrations that have raged across the debt-ridden continent for months.
Dozens of cities across the world - from Tokyo to Alaska via London, Frankfurt and Washington - are holding demonstrations in a show of solidarity with the rallies that began last month in downtown New York.
"On October 15th people from all over the world will take to the streets and squares ... to initiate the global change we want," proclaimed the website United for #GlobalChange (http://15october.net/).
"We will peacefully demonstrate, talk and organize until we make it happen. It's time for us to unite; it's time for them to listen."
Around 4,000 people marched through the streets of Berlin, with banners that urged the end of capitalism. Some marchers scuffled with police as they tried to get near the country's parliamentary buildings.
In Frankfurt, continental Europe's financial capital, some 5,000 people protested in front of the European Central Bank.
Wikileaks founder Julian Assange spoke to 500 demonstrators outside St. Paul's cathedral in London.
"The banking system in London is the recipient of corrupt money," he said, adding that Wikileaks would launch a campaign against financial institutions in the coming months.

In the Bosnian city of Sarajevo, hundreds walked through the streets carrying pictures of Che Guevara and old communist flags that read "Death to capitalism, freedom to the people."
Another 500 people gathered to hear speakers denounce capitalism at a peaceful rally in downtown Stockholm, holding up red flags and banners that read "We are the 99 percent" and "We refuse to pay for capitalism's crisis."
The reference was to the world's richest 1 per cent, who control billions in assets, while billions around the world live in poverty or are struggling economically.
In Spain, groups that became known as the Indignant Movement established the first around-the-clock "occupation" protest camps in cities and towns across the country beginning in May and lasting for weeks. Six marches are set to converge Saturday on Madrid's Puerta del Sol plaza just before dusk.
Portuguese angry at their government's handling of the economic crisis are protesting in downtown Lisbon later. Portugal is one of three European nations - the others being Greece and Ireland - that have already needed an international bailout.
A group of 100 prominent authors, including Salman Rushdie, Neil Gaiman and Pulitzer Prize-winning novelists Jennifer Egan and Michael Cunningham, signed an online petition declaring their support for "Occupy Wall Street and the Occupy Movement around the world."
Melbourne, Australia's second-largest city, saw the day's first demonstration, when at least 1,000 people, including children, gathered at City Square.
"We face similar problems with our democracy here in Victoria and Australia as people face in most other developed nations," the Occupy Melbourne (http://occupymelbourne.org/) website said. "Our democracy is unwell."
In Sydney, about 2,000 protesters including representatives of Aboriginal groups, communists and trade unionists, protested outside the central Reserve Bank of Australia, at Martin Place in the central business district time.
'Occupy Asia'
Demonstrations of various sizes took place in Asia, namely in Japan's Tokyo, the Philippines' Manila, Taiwan's Taipei, South Korea's Seoul and China's Hong Kong.

Claudio Lavagna reports on the Rome protests Several protests and rallies were held simultaneously in various locations at the Japanese capital.
Hundreds of demonstrators marched to the headquarters of Tokyo Electric Power Co. and the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry to show dissatisfaction over the handling of the nuclear disaster triggered by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami (http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/spotlight/japan/).
Despite heavy rains in Seoul, the South Korean capital, members of more than 30 civic groups congregated outside the Financial Services Commission in Yeouido, the city's financial district.
Activists wearing Guy Fawkes masks staged performances to express their frustration with the growing income gap in Seoul, and chanted "We are the 99 per cent" - one of the seminal slogans of the Wall Street movement.
In Manila, about 100 members of Bayan, an alliance of various left-wing groups in the Philippines, marched to the US embassy, waving banners that read: "Down with US imperialism" and "Philippines not for sale", broadcaster APTN reported.
They took Saturday's occupy protest to voice support for the New York movement and to express their cricism of US troop presence in the country's south.
One man was seen carrying a placard that read: "Genuine people's democracy lives in the streets."
In Hong Kong, more than 200 people gathered at Exchange Square Podium in the city’s central shopping and business district.
Some pitched tents to stay overnight at the site while others later migrated to the HSBC building nearby.
Taipei, the Taiwanese capital, saw a smaller turnout of near 100 people than the expected 1,500, at the city's landmark skyscraper Taipei 101, home to the Taiwan Stock Exchange.
The Occupy South Africa (http://www.occupysa.org/) website announced "Operation Ubuntu", a Nguni word used to describe unity for a common purpose through an African worldview that people can only find fulfilment through interacting with other peoples.
Protests are scheduled in the country's major cities of Capetown, East London, Durban and Johannesburg for later on Saturday.
Greek protesters aligned with Spain's "Indignant" movement called an anti-austerity rally in Athens' Syntagma square, the focal point of many demonstrations during Greece's financial meltdown.


From the bottom on up.

[Sasha]

Several thousand here are occupying the square in front of the stockexchange, im hoping to join them in a few hours.

[Conscript]

Is it too soon for a long live the revolution?

[Rusty Shackleford]

Is it too soon for a long live the revolution?
hold thy tongue. but in a few weeks, let it free!

(i dont know where that came from)


i really thing that if this lasts, its going to have to develop a political orientation. even then, this wont topple western governments unless this grew over the course of the next few months.



whodafucking thunk that Occupy Wallstreet would be so damn effective. Im impressed. And ill admit, i was wrong in my approach to it at the beginning.

[fionntan]

Can any one tell me the origins of this as in who or what group/people came up with the idea come on and we will do this?

[Delenda Carthago]

Is it too soon for a long live the revolution?
yes

[Conscript]

Even in Greece? You guys are sorta getting what you asked for.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01628/athens460_1628741c.jpg

[Delenda Carthago]

Even in Greece? You guys are sorta getting what you asked for.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01628/athens460_1628741c.jpg
First of all, what you are posting is an activism that happened a year ago. I dont know what your idea of what we are asked for is, but thats not it.

Second of all, Greece and the rest of the Europe/ Western world is a total different thing. Greece is on a constant move for years, with the class struggle being on the forefront constantly.With everything this costed to many people. And even still, Greece is not at THE spot. We still have some road to walk. But the thing is revolutions are not a matter of weeks after decades of class neutrality.Its a long process, huge sometimes that you need to walk all the way.One day of demos in some countries is barely the potential first step on this long journey. Revolution is really really far away.Enjoy the trip.

[A Marxist Historian]

First of all, what you are posting is an activism that happened a year ago. I dont know what your idea of what we are asked for is, but thats not it.

Second of all, Greece and the rest of the Europe/ Western world is a total different thing. Greece is on a constant move for years, with the class struggle being on the forefront constantly.With everything this costed to many people. And even still, Greece is not at THE spot. We still have some road to walk. But the thing is revolutions are not a matter of weeks after decades of class neutrality.Its a long process, huge sometimes that you need to walk all the way.One day of demos in some countries is barely the potential first step on this long journey. Revolution is really really far away.Enjoy the trip.

Yes, it's far away elsewhere. But in Greece?

With the Greek finance minister getting up on his hind legs and saying, if you don't like my government's policies, overthrow us?

No, Greece is in a revolutionary situation. Now, not later. Which cannot continue indefinitely, so if there is no revolution fairly soon, there will be a tidal wave of reaction, as the middle classes get tired of the economy being paralyzed by the workers on strike half the time.

This is what happened in Italy in 1920, and what could happen in Greece in 2012 if the Greek left doesn't get its act together.

Your KKE's failure to recognize that, given that it has the support of a very large fraction of the Greek working class, is tragic.

-M.H.-

[Delenda Carthago]

Yes, it's far away elsewhere. But in Greece?

With the Greek finance minister getting up on his hind legs and saying, if you don't like my government's policies, overthrow us?

No, Greece is in a revolutionary situation. Now, not later. Which cannot continue indefinitely, so if there is no revolution fairly soon, there will be a tidal wave of reaction, as the middle classes get tired of the economy being paralyzed by the workers on strike half the time.

This is what happened in Italy in 1920, and what could happen in Greece in 2012 if the Greek left doesn't get its act together.

Your KKE's failure to recognize that, given that it has the support of a very large fraction of the Greek working class, is tragic.

-M.H.-
Given the fact that you are so well informed on the situation here that you believe that KKE is demanding better policies by the goverment, maybe you should come and give us a lecture on how to do our revolution.

[piet11111]

Given the fact that you are so well informed on the situation here that you believe that KKE is demanding better policies by the goverment, maybe you should come and give us a lecture on how to do our revolution.

Just curious but has the KKE ever called for a general strike that lasts more then 24 hours ?
Or calls to bring down the government along with supporting actions to make it happen.

(yes i am serious because to my knowledge no such thing happened but i could be wrong so that is why i ask)

[Delenda Carthago]

Just curious but has the KKE ever called for a general strike that lasts more then 24 hours ?
Or calls to bring down the government along with supporting actions to make it happen.

(yes i am serious because to my knowledge no such thing happened but i could be wrong so that is why i ask)
First of all, KKE is a political party. I dont know how things are working in your country, but in mine, its the syndicalist arrays that do the syndicalist job.

Unfortunatly in Greece we have the syndicalist model of one third degree syndicate for the private sector(GSEE) and one for the public sector(ADEDY). So in order to call for a general strike you have to gain the majority in GSEE which is pretty tuff job, given the fact that by dirty tricks(like the existance of unions that dont ever make assemblies and they go straight to PASKE)it is ruled by PASKE-PASOK's array. In the modern history of Greece there has been only one case of a 48hour general strike. The one that PAME(the array of KKE) proposed and organised in July*. The second one is again a PAME proposal and will be in the 19th of the month.

KKE's only proposal since the beggining of the crisis is People's Authority. Which is their version of socialism. You can read more in the link on my signature. Or ask FSL who is a KKE member(I m not).

*which I remind was received by many "revolutionaries" here as a...practise and nothing worth talking about.

[piet11111]

I thought KKE had a union counterpart.

And yes in my opinion a 48 hour general strike is only good for tiring out the workers they should not be ordered back to work without bringing down the government.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I thought KKE had a union counterpart.

And yes in my opinion a 48 hour general strike is only good for tiring out the workers they should not be ordered back to work without bringing down the government.
the KKE does have a union counterpart. it was just stated that it is PAME.

and, baby steps dude. 48 hour general strikes are major undertakings. And they can really steel labor when it becomes more and more aware of its power. Also, they are calling for surrounding parliament which is fucking bad ass.

A general strike, like any form of protest or withholding of labor should be treated as a rehearsal and a tool. We learn how to organize ourselves when we do such things while at the same time making an attack on the capitalists. you dont just read a pamphlet and the make revolution. you have to learn how to do everything else before you can do such a thing.

[Proteus]

There seems to be a new feeling among people all over the globe that its time to at least protest against what increasing people see as a world shaped in the interests of the rich. This could be the start of something very big. God lets hope it is.

[piet11111]

Greece has been at it for a long time and achieved next to nothing all austerity measures have been rammed through and all the unions do is throw a few 1 day scattered strikes.

And everytime a strike actually threatens the state like the refinery strike of the Hellenic Petroleum (ELPE) workers it gets suspended.

To me it seems that the unions are desperately trying to act as a safety pressure release valve to keep the state in position and that increasing strike action is in spite of the unions instead of thanks to the unions.

[Delenda Carthago]

I thought KKE had a union counterpart.

And yes in my opinion a 48 hour general strike is only good for tiring out the workers they should not be ordered back to work without bringing down the government.
The day you ll do better you ll be relevant, we ll talk. Right now I dont sit on a table with people who have done nothing and look down on people who give their struggle.

[Tim Cornelis]

#OccupyRome

"Vreedzame betogers moedigden het politieoptreden aan en droegen zelfs 3 militanten over aan de politie."

"Peaceful protesters encourage police action and even "gave" (lost in translation) 3 militants to the police".

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fsrirZ-siZU/TO4iAEB5wEI/AAAAAAAAAPg/1GYcrvq41Ag/s1600/facepalm.jpg

I can understand you oppose violent protests but this...

[Le Socialiste]

Greece has been at it for a long time and achieved next to nothing all austerity measures have been rammed through and all the unions do is throw a few 1 day scattered strikes.

And everytime a strike actually threatens the state like the refinery strike of the Hellenic Petroleum (ELPE) workers it gets suspended.

To me it seems that the unions are desperately trying to act as a safety pressure release valve to keep the state in position and that increasing strike action is in spite of the unions instead of thanks to the unions.

My thoughts exactly. I suspect they won't be able to hold back the efforts of the working-class much longer, though. From what I've read, there are many workers who've adopted an openly defiant tone in the face of union inactivity and/or suppression of moves that take on an increasingly militant and dangerous position. Your reference to the suspension of the Hellenic Petroleum strike speaks volumes about the true nature of the union's leaders. These general strikes serve a purpose though, one which will hopefully lead to greater awareness and willingness on the part of the Greek working-class to take action.

[piet11111]

The day you ll do better you ll be relevant, we ll talk. Right now I dont sit on a table with people who have done nothing and look down on people who give their struggle.

I do not look down on the people who struggle but i do seriously doubt the intentions of the political and union leadership.

And you do realise that the whole "the day you'll do better you'll be relevant" is a massive cop-out and a rather pathetic attempt to silence my criticism.
You know damn well i want the best for the Greece population but the scattered 1 day strikes here and there really do have all the appearance of acting like a safety pressure valve.
And why is it that the the Hellenic Petroleum strike was called off ?

Or that GENOP members where told to end the occupation of the printing offices of the public power corporation an occupation that was intended to prevent the sending of bills that included the new property tax ?
GENOP officials stated that they would come back to occupy the place again should electricity be cut of to homes that refused to pay the property tax that is included with electricity bills but we would just have to take their word for it don't we ?

The conclusions i draw based on international news is that the union leaderships are working against us.
I need only look at the UAW in the USA or the FNV in the netherlands and then the Greek unions.

Greece can only move forward by reclaiming the unions and put them under working class control.

[Proteus]

To me it seems that the unions are desperately trying to act as a safety pressure release valve to keep the state in position and that increasing strike action is in spite of the unions instead of thanks to the unions.

An articulate observation because it just about sums up the role of unions. Workers must act in solidarity with these emerging movements, in spite of their union bosses, or all will be lost. People can protest and resist all they like but if they do not have the support of the working class and their power they are a damp squib.

[Delenda Carthago]

Τhere is no such thing as "THE unions". I described you before a situation where we dont have but one confederation which is already set up to be under PASOK control. In there there are many people in first and second degree syndicates that are real class fighters. There are many syndicates that are under communist control that give dissent fights. What do you mean "Greece can only move forward by reclaiming the unions and put them under working class control"?What do you thing we are fighting for? Its like saying: humanity will only progress in communism. No shit Serlok!

Lets not get into GENOP, because its a huge matter, but I can insure you that what GENOP did was a small huge victory, since GENOP is under PASKE control. This means that the heads of the union(the gs being an ex-trot!) under the pressure of PAME turned against the PASOK goverment.And the occupation ended when the goverment said that they gon send the bills to be pressed in a private corporation. So dont make conclusions for things you dont know about.

And seriously, the "the day you ll be relevant" is far from pathetic. There are 3 things to do when someone who havent happened to know anything about what a general strike looks and costs like to undermine it. You can have a conversation with him, which ends up to nowhere since people who talk on things they dont know about dont really change their minds whatsoever.You can deny the conversation or you can curse him for his nerve. I try to be as polite as I can. Its like Red Dave giving lectures on what Nepal should do on their political and military struggle and dude havent seen a gunfight in his life. What if a nepali maoist was writing in here? How would he react to him?

[Delenda Carthago]

A barrage of strikes in Greece and escalation with a 48 hr general strike on the 18-19 of October



http://inter.kke.gr/mail_icon.gif (http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2011/2011-10-14-info/sendto_form)
http://inter.kke.gr/print_icon.gif



http://www2.rizospastis.gr/getImage.do?size=medium&id=285030&format=.jpg The response of the workers is strengthening against the unending anti-people offensive

The workers’ income in the private and public sector will receive a savage blow with the new measures. The goal of the government, plutocracy and Troika is the dramatic reduction of salaries. The new measures will further cut the salaries of public sector employees, who have already lost 5 months’ worth of salaries, at the same time on the basis of the plan for the new salary structure, the salary of workers in the public sector will be reduced by amounts ranging from 20% to 50% or more! While modelled on the wretched contract in the Telecommunications Enterprise OTE, the salaries in the private sector will be cut even further. They abolish the Collective Bargaining Agreements so that they will press down wages in the private sector well below the shameful National Pay Agreement, which together with the cuts in benefits imposes poverty wages.

The need for the immediate escalation of the struggle not only with the strike on the 19th of October but with a 48 hour nationwide general strike on the 19th and 20th of October was decided on by PAME for the country’s working class to give a decisive response to the government measures which bury their rights and lives.
Strikes have been in full swing all week against the measures of the government, plutocracy-Troika, in the entire public urban transport system, paralysing the public transportation within Athens. The municipal workers are on strike, which is exerting pressure through the non-collection of rubbish in many municipalities including Athens for a week. Workers in DEH (electricity board) have occupied for two days already the building where the machines which print the electricity bills are housed, so in practice blocking the printing and sending to the workers of yet another head tax, a property tax which the government announced would be sent with the electricity bill. The situation in the health sector is explosive, where the government apart from the merger of hospitals announced the closure of 50% of the beds in public hospitals and the handing over of hundreds of hospital beds to private companies. Occupations and work stoppages have taken place in the biggest central hospitals such as the General State Hospital, Ag. Savvas against these plans of the government. The seamen are organizing a 48-hour strike on Monday and Tuesday. The employees in the tax offices as in most ministries and public bodies are also on strike and they have occupied the buildings of various ministries. Various sections of the self-employed like taxi drivers and lawyers are also on strike. School students, students and teachers have been carrying out demonstrations and occupations for the last month and a half due to the unacceptable situation that parents, teachers (the teachers were on strike this week) face as schools have no books and the ministry has handed out photocopies instead of books. At the same the recent laws for schools and universities promote and reinforce the business activity in schools and faculties and force the parents to pay even more.

A significant example of the activity of PAME in this period was the reinstatement of a dismissed worker in one of the three biggest dairy industries. The dismissal of the worker by the bosses of the dairy industry MEVGAL met for three days the response of the workers who went on strike in the two main factories in Athens and Thessalonica. In this way the workers exposed the plans of the employers not merely concerning this dismissal but concerning hundreds of dismissals through the merging of the company with another dairy industry group. The reinstatement of the worker shows the way, it shows that the decisive struggle can prevent the anti-people plans in the workplaces where everything is determined.

This activity that faces the intimidation of the government and the employers, the declaration of strikes as illegal and abusive, will be escalated through the strike demonstrations of PAME on 19-20 October, in the general strike.
International Section of the CC of KKE

[piet11111]

Τhere is no such thing as "THE unions". I described you before a situation where we dont have but one confederation which is already set up to be under PASOK control.

So what is done to change that situation ?


There are many syndicates that are under communist control that give dissent fights.

I only know English and Dutch (and Frisian but no news is ever done in Frisian anyway) so i do not get much news from Greece all i get is a very small group of workers isolated from the working class proper are having a 24 hour strike.
So what kind of conclusions can i draw from that ?
The only thing i can conclude is that they are deliberately isolated by the union leadership.


Lets not get into GENOP, because its a huge matter, but I can insure you that what GENOP did was a small huge victory

Must be a different GENOP then the one i read about because i read about a union that send its people home to come back later should people have their electricity cut off.


since GENOP is under PASKE control. This means that the heads of the union(the gs being an ex-trot!) under the pressure of PAME turned against the PASOK goverment.

As if they could get away with their open sellout of the working class !!
This is the unions buckling under working class pressure not the union leadership finally acting in the interest of the working class !


And the occupation ended when the goverment said that they gon send the bills to be pressed in a private corporation.

Defeating the entire purpose of the occupation in the first place the whole point as i understood it was to prevent those fucking bills from ever being sent in the first place and now the GENOP made a deal with the government to have those bills send out by someone else.
Great working class victory there.


So dont make conclusions for things you dont know about.

Somehow i get the impression i know more then enough.


you can curse him for his nerve.

This is what you are doing to me now aren't you ?


Its like Red Dave giving lectures on what Nepal should do on their political and military struggle and dude havent seen a gunfight in his life.

Red Dave is right in pointing out the glaring errors of the Maoists in Nepal.
They are selling out the revolution in their class collaborationist ways they even disarmed the guerrilla's.
And if you think Red Dave needs to have been in a gunfight then you missed out on humanity's greatest achievement the ability to learn from history books where we can learn from past events and prevent the same mistakes from being made again.
Or do you want to see Nepal going down the same road as China where capitalism was restored ?

[Arlekino]

I am little disappointed because I only find out yesterday but I am glad beginnings is starting there will be world wide demonstration.
Please look at this video.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y3X2VFruLM&feature=player_embedded

[Belleraphone]

As happy as I am about the Wall street demonstrations, it's a little early to say that this is a rejection of capitalism. Remember, many of them are right-wing Libertarians and Ron Paul supporters. Not that I don't have a problem with them participating in the protests, it makes it more immune to criticism from the MSM as a bunch of "left-wing loons."

[Ocean Seal]

Greece has been at it for a long time and achieved next to nothing all austerity measures have been rammed through and all the unions do is throw a few 1 day scattered strikes.

And everytime a strike actually threatens the state like the refinery strike of the Hellenic Petroleum (ELPE) workers it gets suspended.

To me it seems that the unions are desperately trying to act as a safety pressure release valve to keep the state in position and that increasing strike action is in spite of the unions instead of thanks to the unions.
This post is ridiculous. Yes, the demands were rammed through. But those were the necessities of global capitalism. But the people resisted, they organized, and they developed class politics. Capital and its bourgeois parliaments are reactionary, but were preparing for the fight.

[Os Cangaceiros]

A rather hysterical/poorly written piece from MSNBC:


http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/111015-rome-hmed-11a.grid-8x2.jpg


Hundreds of hooded, masked protesters rampaged through Rome in some of the worst violence in the Italian capital for years Saturday, torching cars and breaking windows during a larger peaceful protest against elites blamed for economic downturn.

Police repeatedly fired tear gas and water cannon in attempts to disperse them but the clashes with a minority of violent demonstrators stretched into the evening, hours after tens of thousands of people in Rome joined a global "day of rage" against bankers and politicians.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44912532/ns/world_news/#.Tpo4v0ZjhN0

[Le Socialiste]

This post is ridiculous. Yes, the demands were rammed through. But those were the necessities of global capitalism. But the people resisted, they organized, and they developed class politics. Capital and its bourgeois parliaments are reactionary, but were preparing for the fight.

The problem lies in how the official "left" of Greece has handled the situation, and their complicity in the government's efforts to shift the burden of the financial crisis onto the Greek working-class. The people's resistance requires them to reclaim the aim and focus of these unions and to use them as vehicles for class warfare. In their present state, the major unions serve as a safeguard against the people's growing anger toward the institutions of capitalism. By releasing occasional statements and demonstrations against the government - which are aimed more at appeasement than action - the unions and major "left" parties are betraying the class struggle, not aiding it. The only good these things do is that they prepare the Greek working-class with the basic tools for the struggle ahead.

[Rocky Rococo]

First of all, what you are posting is an activism that happened a year ago. I dont know what your idea of what we are asked for is, but thats not it.

Second of all, Greece and the rest of the Europe/ Western world is a total different thing. Greece is on a constant move for years, with the class struggle being on the forefront constantly.With everything this costed to many people. And even still, Greece is not at THE spot. We still have some road to walk. But the thing is revolutions are not a matter of weeks after decades of class neutrality.Its a long process, huge sometimes that you need to walk all the way.One day of demos in some countries is barely the potential first step on this long journey. Revolution is really really far away.Enjoy the trip.

Ordinarily I would totally agree with you. However, there are issues of scale which emerged today that put us in an entirely new circumstance. Now it may be that the rules of "normal" development, that you based your position on, will still apply. I don't dismiss that at all, and you may prove to be right. But there are now the possibilities of synergies coming into play that have simply never existed before that may accelerate (or conversely, undermine) the normal course of pre-revolutionary development. All we can do is keep pushing, not expecting immediate results, but being ready to act at a higher level if unprecedented events should occur.

[Delenda Carthago]

So what is done to change that situation ?


Everyday motherfuckin struggle dude!!! Thats what it is, you know? We are fighting to get back our syndicates by the hands of PASKE-DAKE(New Democracy array).





I only know English and Dutch (and Frisian but no news is ever done in Frisian anyway) so i do not get much news from Greece all i get is a very small group of workers isolated from the working class proper are having a 24 hour strike.
So what kind of conclusions can i draw from that ?
The only thing i can conclude is that they are deliberately isolated by the union leadership.Which, fuckin again, is what we are fighting against.What part of it you didnt understood?



Must be a different GENOP then the one i read about because i read about a union that send its people home to come back later should people have their electricity cut off.Yeah. The GENOP you read about did not exist.



Defeating the entire purpose of the occupation in the first place the whole point as i understood it was to prevent those fucking bills from ever being sent in the first place and now the GENOP made a deal with the government to have those bills send out by someone else.
Great working class victory there.This is why I didnt want to have this conversation. Because you havent lived a class war situation so you can never understand what it meant for the people. Even though they didnt managed to pull it through. Its no wonder noone is critising them for leaving. Have you thought about it? Why not even the anarchists are not doing it? You have to really be in your own universe to critise GENOP for that.



Somehow i get the impression i know more then enough.Υou obviously dont.






Red Dave is right in pointing out the glaring errors of the Maoists in Nepal.
They are selling out the revolution in their class collaborationist ways they even disarmed the guerrilla's.
And if you think Red Dave needs to have been in a gunfight then you missed out on humanity's greatest achievement the ability to learn from history books where we can learn from past events and prevent the same mistakes from being made again.
Or do you want to see Nepal going down the same road as China where capitalism was restored ?Red Dave is a first world dude that have never been to Nepal. Doesnt know what its like for the people there and just judges from the headlines. Continiusly.Doesnt know what its like for many people in Nepal to not have internet or TV and to get information about the politics by the maoist theatric plays that comes to their villages. Doesnt know what its like to live in a society that is 150 years back in economic, social and political situation. He thinks that a revolution is a simple thing of an A+B=C and thats it. If you havent lived the situation, you would never know what its like. Trust me. You dont know sex from porn. Porn is nice, it can give you an idea what to expect, but only if you get involved you can undestand why sometimes you might do things that you dont really want to, but you have to. Why sometimes you have to the long road to somewhere and why sometimes you have to take some steps back. If you havent organised a strike on your own workplace, if you dont know what a general strike looks like and what it means to the people that participate, you dont come out your face. You stay and listen to the people that lived the situation and you expect to catch something. Its a nerve for me to go to Raul Castro and blast him as a traitor. But do I have the right? Do I know why Raul Castro makes these descisions that he is making? Do I know the situation in Cuba? Do I know what struggle the cubans are giving? Why? Just cause I read articles about them?

You have the right to critisise everything. But if you want to make sence, before you speak you should think. What do you REALLY know about it?

[Great1917Revolution]

Comrade Anna from Norway speaking on the #occupy protest in Belgrade, 15 October 2011

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[DaringMehring]

KKE are Stalinists but they are the one Stalinist Party I support. Why? Because they are actually to the left of the Greek Trotskyists. Good luck to the KKE and the Greek people in revolution!

[Lenina Rosenweg]

KKE are Stalinists but they are the one Stalinist Party I support. Why? Because they are actually to the left of the Greek Trotskyists. Good luck to the KKE and the Greek people in revolution!

Who are the Greek Trotskyists? Not challenging, just asking.Are the IF or IMT active in Greece? The CWI has an organization in Greece, Xekinima which has had some influence on the struggle..

Why do you feel the KKE may have more to contribute than Greek Trotskyists?

[A Marxist Historian]

Who are the Greek Trotskyists? Not challenging, just asking.Are the IF or IMT active in Greece? The CWI has an organization in Greece, Xekinima which has had some influence on the struggle..

Why do you feel the KKE may have more to contribute than Greek Trotskyists?

There are a remarkably large number of small Trotskyist groups, including a very small Spartacist group. Fourteen or fifteen I think. Greek Trotskyism once upon a time was a mass movement, but has fallen on bad times.

Most of them are in one of the two left wing coalitions, one of which is clearly to the right of the KKE, and the other, Antarsya, it's a bit less clear but I wouldn't be surprised if they are to the right of KKE too.

A lot of the Greek alleged Trots got very excited about the Eurocommunist split from the KKE, which quite obviously showed its colors as a right split very early. Some even think that PASOK is a "socialist" party and want to have united fronts with it, or at least its nonexistent "left wing."

The KKE is the best of the mass Stalinist parties still around out there, but does still share their failings. Its classic "two stage revolution" line (I am being rather imprecise here, AttackGr may complain) leads them to think that the task right now is not socialist revolution now, but ... something else. You can even see that in AttackGr's postings.

But most of the so-called Greek Trotskyists are the same or worse, wanting to organize "broad coalitions" to "unite everyone," therefore in practice not being for socialist revolution now either, despite paper calls for "permanent revolution" and all that, since that would break up the coalition.

-M.H.-