Does Religion enslave the Working Class ?

[tradeunionsupporter]

Does Religion enslave the Working Class by telling Workers to suffer hell on Earth in this life under Capitalism to be promised Heaven in the sky in a Afterlife that has no evidence that it exists many Poor People and Homeless people need the Comfort that Religions gives does anyone agree ?

Religion as Opium of the People

Karl Marx, Religion, and Economics

By Austin Cline (http://www.revleft.com/bio/Austin-Cline-5577.htm), About.com Guide

According to Marx, religion is an expression of material realities and economic injustice. Thus, problems in religion are ultimately problems in society. Religion is not the disease, but merely a symptom. It is used by oppressors to make people feel better about the distress they experience due to being poor and exploited. This is the origin of his comment that religion is the “opium of the masses” — but as shall see, his thoughts are much more complex than commonly portrayed.

http://atheism.about.com/od/philosophyofreligion/a/marx.htm
Karl Marx on Religion

Is Religion the Opiate of the Masses?

By Austin Cline (http://www.revleft.com/bio/Austin-Cline-5577.htm), About.com Guide

In the above quotation Marx is saying that religion’s purpose is to create illusory fantasies for the poor. Economic realities prevent them from finding true happiness in this life, so religion tells them that this is OK because they will find true happiness in the next life. Although this is a criticism of religion, Marx is not without sympathy: people are in distress and religion provides solace, just as people who are physically injured receive relief from opiate-based drugs.

http://atheism.about.com/od/weeklyquotes/a/marx01.htm
Why Does Religion Exist?

Karl Marx's Analysis of Religion

By Austin Cline (http://www.revleft.com/bio/Austin-Cline-5577.htm), About.com Guide

Third, religion is hypocritical. Although it might profess valuable principles, it sides with the oppressors. Jesus advocated helping the poor, but the Christian church merged with the oppressive Roman state, taking part in the enslavement of people for centuries. In the Middle Ages the Catholic Church preached about heaven, but acquired as much property and power as possible.

http://atheism.about.com/od/philosophyofreligion/a/marx_4.htm

[tradeunionsupporter]

Elijah Muhammad taught that there is no Afterlife belief in Heaven is a Slavery belief I agree with him does anyone agree ?


Message to the Blackman
CHAPTER 132
THE HEREAFTER

8 No already physically dead person will be in the hereafter; that is slavery belief, taught to slaves to keep them under control. This is taught also so that they won't be thinking about the wealth of their slave-masters while under the slave-master. The slave is made to believe his will come after death, and his master knows that death settles all, and that you can't return to tell him whether he lied or told the truth.

http://www.seventhfam.com/temple/books/black_man/blk132.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfaRCi3vwGI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpNBjLOS1fM&feature=related

[tradeunionsupporter]

Marxism and Religion (http://www.revleft.com/marxism-religion-liberation-theology220701.htm)

Written by Alan Woods Sunday, 22 July 2001

Philosophical materialism and science

Marxists stand on the basis of philosophical materialism, which rules out the existence of any supernatural entity, or anything outside or "above" nature. There is, in fact, no need for any such explanation for life and the universe - least of all today. Nature furnishes its own explanations and it furnishes them in great abundance.
Science has proven that humankind has developed - like every other species - over millions of years, and that life itself has evolved from inorganic matter. There cannot be a brain without a central nervous system, and there cannot be a central nervous system without a material body, blood, bones, muscles etc. In turn, the body must be sustained by food derived from a material environment. The most recent discoveries of genetics in the human genome project have furnished incontrovertible evidence for the materialist standpoint.
The revelation of the genome's long and complex history, so long hidden from view, has prompted discussions about the nature of humankind and the process of creation. Incredibly, in the first decade of the twenty first century, the ideas of Darwin are being challenged by the so-called Creationist movement in the USA, which wants American schoolchildren to be taught that God created the world in six days, that man was created from dust and that the first woman was made out of one of his ribs.
The latest discoveries have finally exploded the nonsense of Creationism. It has comprehensively demolished the notion that every species was created separately, and that Man, with his eternal soul, was especially created to sing the praises of the Lord. It is now clearly proved that humans are not at all unique creations. The results of the human genome project show conclusively that we share our genes with other species - that ancient genes helped to make us who we are. Humans share their genes with other species going far back into the mists of time. In fact, a small part of this common genetic inheritance can be traced back to primitive organisms such as bacteria. In many cases, humans have exactly the same genes as rats, mice, cats, dogs and even fruit flies. Indeed, scientists have now found some 200 genes that humans share with bacteria. In this way, the final proof of evolution has been established. In a fundamental way. No divine intervention is required.

http://www.marxist.com/marxism-religion-liberation-theology220701.htm

[tradeunionsupporter]

In my view Religion is Slavery a form of Slavery.

[Revolution starts with U]

I would say it allows them to alleviate, or even forget, the problems they experience as slaves, and as such may be holding them back from emancipation. So.. ya, kinda.

[tir1944]

Yes.
Marx was,of course,right.

[DarkPast]

I'd say that religion is used by the ruling class to enslave the working class. This is an important difference from saying religion itself enslaves the working class.

[Zealot]

I agree, I've heard so many Christians tell me that there's no point in revolutions or struggles because the world is a sinful place and this is how it's supposed to be and blah blah. Elijah Muhammad was a nutcase in his own right.

[Hexen]

I agree, I've heard so many Christians tell me that there's no point in revolutions or struggles because the world is a sinful place and this is how it's supposed to be and blah blah. Elijah Muhammad was a nutcase in his own right.

And Capitalists secularize the same argument by calling it "Human Nature" which is basically the same thing.

[tradeunionsupporter]

I agree Religion supports Slavery.

http://thisiscommunism.org/pdf/FAQ.pdf

[tradeunionsupporter]

People say Religion offers a Person Comfort this is true if you are a Slave you would find Comfort in the idea of Heaven/Afterlife but since Religion supports Slavery and keeps us EnSlaved and Slaves to Capitalism I can't find Comfort in Religion.

Fear of Death?

Mark Twain on death, spoken by Richard Dawkins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecZeTLoBK6U

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.

Mark Twain - Permalink (http://www.revleft.com/quotes/83)

http://richarddawkins.net/quotes?page=2

[Troopa]

Religion in its roots does not enslave the working class, but has been proven by history to be very dangerous in those regards. Monarchies have ruled people very easily using religion. This ranges all the way back from the Pharaohs of Egypt, to the Church and Queen Elizabeth today!

Whether the monarchs themselves believe their own religion is up to debate. But I want to bet the king of Saudi Arabia feasts on pork and sips his wine like a pig.

[tradeunionsupporter]

Religion by itself is not Slavery but Religion has been used and is used to support Slavery.

[tradeunionsupporter]

Thank you for thanking me for my post.

[Revolution starts with U]

:laugh:

:thumbup1:

[smk]

As the OP shows, not even Marx thought that religion is around just because Le Capitalists wanna enslave the working class. Even in the most egalitarian ancient societies, there were religious and spiritual beliefs. Religion is natural for humans and is an expression of the tragic despair at our own lack of meaning.

[tradeunionsupporter]

I don't believe Humans need Religion for anything. Religion is not natural. Religion was used before Classes existed during Primitive Communism in Tribal Society/Tribes Religion was used to explain nature why life was here why the planet earth the sun the moon were here it was also used to explain death people had that fear of death than when economic classes appeared Religion began to not only to be used to explain when there was rain thunder or why there was a sky it began to be used to support Slavery to keep Slavess in line the Slave Master promised a Afterlife Hereafter Heaven to the Slave if the Slave would and did suffer Hell on Earth in this Life a belief in a Afterlife/Heaven says don't worry about your low wage Job and being a Wage Slave here on Earth you will get another chance to live after death this is just my view on Religion by the way we have Evolution/Darwin/Science to explain life and why our Planet Earth is here we don't need Religion anymore.


What are the origins of religion?

IN THE EARLIEST human societies (hunter and gatherer economies) ‘magic-religious’ beliefs reflected an attempt to explain phenomena that had a profound influence on people’s lives, like fires, changing seasons, astronomical events, natural disasters, and the migration of herding animals.
As these early societies developed into class societies, a privileged layer of priests and magicians came into existence. Special institutions and new ideas and morals developed to justify the new social and economic order. Religion became the ideological justification for the enslavement of the majority of people, who were promised life after death as a reward for the misery on earth.

http://www.socialismtoday.org/114/religion.html

Religion -- Tool of Bosses, Enemy of Workers


Religion -- Tool of Bosses, Enemy of Workers (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC1)
Religion Is Ruling Class Ideology (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC2)
"How Can You Raise Children Without a Religion?" (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC3)
Idealism vs. Materialism (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC4)
Class Struggle and the Struggle of Ideas (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC5)
Materialism Suppressed (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC6)
Origins of Religion -- in Class Society (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC7)
The Agricultural Revolution (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC8)
Class Ideologies (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC9)
Religion Provides Divine Sanction for Ruling Class (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC10)
Greece (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC11)
The Social and Economic Basis of the Origin of Monotheism (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC12)
The Hebrew God (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC13)
Christianity: A Brief Outline (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC14)
Religions of Imperialism (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC15)
Uses of Religion by the Roman Ruling Class (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC16)
Roman Rulers Adopt Christianity (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC17)
Orthodoxy (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC18)
Progressive Aspects of Christianity for its Time (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC19)
Heresy (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC20)
Why Communists Must Fight Religion (http://www.revleft.com/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=38#RTFToC21)
http://www.plp.org/display/Search?se...duleId=5206563 (http://www.plp.org/display/Search?se...duleId=5206563)

Marxism and Religion
Written by Alan Woods Sunday, 22 July 2001

Philosophical materialism and science

Marxists stand on the basis of philosophical materialism, which rules out the existence of any supernatural entity, or anything outside or "above" nature. There is, in fact, no need for any such explanation for life and the universe - least of all today. Nature furnishes its own explanations and it furnishes them in great abundance.
Science has proven that humankind has developed - like every other species - over millions of years, and that life itself has evolved from inorganic matter. There cannot be a brain without a central nervous system, and there cannot be a central nervous system without a material body, blood, bones, muscles etc. In turn, the body must be sustained by food derived from a material environment. The most recent discoveries of genetics in the human genome project have furnished incontrovertible evidence for the materialist standpoint.

http://www.marxist.com/marxism-religion-liberation-theology220701.htm

[ComradeMan]

Religion is not natural.

You say this but then you go on to say that religion has existed, seemingly, since the earliest times. Could an argument not be made then that it is natural?

Besides this, what do you define as natural? It can get tricky philosophically.

Also, is natural necessarily an "argument" in itself- cholera is natural but I don't anyone would be keen on promoting it.

[Rafiq]

No, the Bourgeoisie does.

[Rafiq]

Nature itself is sort of non existent in the sense that, like Zizek has said, there is no balanced, knowing force that is nature. Nature is chaotic and terrible.

[RedGrunt]

Religion just needs to evolve.. by not believing in personal and literal deities.

[tradeunionsupporter]

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.
Mark Twain - Permalink (http://richarddawkins.net/quotes/83)

http://richarddawkins.net/quotes?page=2

[dodger]

Religion in its roots does not enslave the working class, but has been proven by history to be very dangerous in those regards. Monarchies have ruled people very easily using religion. This ranges all the way back from the Pharaohs of Egypt, to the Church and Queen Elizabeth today!

Whether the monarchs themselves believe their own religion is up to debate. But I want to bet the king of Saudi Arabia feasts on pork and sips his wine like a pig.

Not far off the mark Troopa...I worked at a top Mayfair hotel in my youth.....the weekly bills for those grog guzzlers was 15yrs wages. Then off to the casino at night. I don't recall pork on the menu...but I have clear recollection of a Jewish school pal. We would sit in a greasy spoon cafe with plate heaped... ' Full English' BREAKFAST....he had a habit of putting the smallest slice of bacon on my plate. After some weeks I asked why? He explained his grandma had told him the 1st slice of bacon he had would choke him to death....I suffered no such ill effects. His father was a track bookie....so he understood the odds alright. Happily in my generation the CHURCH of ENGLAND was 'The Tory Party at prayer!'....they had dropped all pretence of ever.converting the heathen working class. Only the Jehovah's used to give us an ear bashing, IF, one let them in....our Estate was a no go area for 'god botherers'......"THANK GOD!!!!!!!"

[The Insurrection]

Religion just needs to evolve.. by not believing in personal and literal deities.

Evolve into what?

[The Jay]

Religion just needs to evolve.. by not believing in personal and literal deities.

You're not making to much sense there. Do you mean religion should be like secular Daoism?

[Azraella]

As the OP shows, not even Marx thought that religion is around just because Le Capitalists wanna enslave the working class. Even in the most egalitarian ancient societies, there were religious and spiritual beliefs. Religion is natural for humans and is an expression of the tragic despair at our own lack of meaning.

This is closer to how I think. Do we have meaning? Perhaps, perhaps not? I sincerely believe that in a free and equal society that we'll explore the Big Questions still and religion will evolve into something healthier

[Marxaveli]

Religion is a form of idealism, probably the most powerful form of it in fact. Idealism has been used as tool throughout history by the ruling class to oppress the working/lower class. So yes, religion oppresses the proletariat.

[Blake's Baby]

You say this but then you go on to say that religion has existed, seemingly, since the earliest times. Could an argument not be made then that it is natural?

Besides this, what do you define as natural? It can get tricky philosophically.

Also, is natural necessarily an "argument" in itself- cholera is natural but I don't anyone would be keen on promoting it.

What do you mean by 'the earliest times'? The use of stone tools by hominins approximately 2.6 million years ago is taken by archaeologists as the first evidence for 'human-like behaviour' (though we have no idea how long other types of tool-use extend back in time - was there a 'wood age' before the stone age?). So 'earliest times' for the human species are approx 2.6 million years ago.

When's the earliest evidence for religion? It's been claimed that some Neanderthals buried their dead around 80,000 years ago (Shanidar in Iraq is the site, it's phase IV that has the controlversial 'flower burial'). Four weeks ago there was the announcement of a 'paint factory' made by modern humans approximately 100,000 years ago in southern Africa - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15257259 - and that arguably was related to activities we might regard as religious (ritual, magical, shamanic or whatever).

So for around 2.5 million years, where there is evidence of 'human-like behaviour' on a technological/productive level - ie evidence of what might be regarded as 'homo economicus' there is no corresponding evidence of 'homo theologicus'.

Even if we restrict our evidence to modern humans, who evolved in Africa between 200,000 and 250,000 years ago (as far as we can tell) there's still a gap of 100,000-150,000 years before any evidence which might be reasonably interpreted as 'religious'. However the invention of paint does not necessarily imply the invention of god.

So if religion is 'natural' it would seem that humans were living very 'unnatural' lives for a very long time (on balance, modern humans display no evidence for religion for a longer period than we displayt evidence for it).

Religion is 'natural' however in so far as it is an attempt to explain natural phenomena - 'man's attempt to communicate with the weather'. We understand a lot more about weather, water, fertility, what stars are and all the rest, we don't now need stories that dead people float in the sky and turn to silver, that an angry old man makes storms, or that rain is a giant pissing in a sieve. I have no objection to the explanations previous societies have come up with to explain phenomena they didn't understand - some of them, such as the monkish belief that barnacle geese were a kind of fish, are both elegant and rational. But they're also wrong, based on a limited understanding of natural phenomena. We have a better understanding now, and can ditch the fairy-stories.

[RedGrunt]

I shouldn't of put it that way. I just see religious concepts as metaphors and I don't take them literally. I see it as reflective of early human thinking. They conceived holistically and abstractly, explaining general forces and personifying them. But today, to actually believe in these personalities and take them literally is ridiculous. I just see them as philosophy.

I mean, what's so different conceptually behind Kant's noumena, and (some concepts of) the Hindu Brahman? Early man just put a face on their philosophy. Discard the literal and dogmatic, and analyze the philosophy then discard again.

[Jimmie Higgins]

The working class is already enslaved. Religion promises false liberation in the form of a pie in the sky. Also, ideologically, religion has been used to bolster the ruling order and spread ruling class ideas and ideals. It still does that in many places, but it's one tool in the toolbox for most modern capitalist countries (at least compared to feudalism where it played a much more central role in pushing ruling class ideology). Mass media and education systems today are probably more important than religion for the ruling class in spreading self-serving ideas about the world.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Evolve into what?:lol: mammals?

Edit: Finches with smaller beaks.

[NormalG]

Religion assists in the maintenance of slavery

[xub3rn00dlex]

Religion is not enslaving the working class itself, and the abolition of it under capitalism won't emancipate the working class. It's a tool promising a reward for playing by the rules and working hard, which coincidentally happen to protect the interests of the ruling class itself. ie: don't steal, don't covet, etc. I have an understanding of catholicism since that's how I was raised, and getting rid of my faith did nothing to make me feel somehow less enslaved.

[NGNM85]

It certainly isn't emancipating the working class. Furthermore; among other things, I think religion tends to fill spaces that would otherwise be occupied by Leftist political movements.

[Azraella]

People say Religion offers a Person Comfort this is true if you are a Slave you would find Comfort in the idea of Heaven/Afterlife but since Religion supports Slavery and keeps us EnSlaved and Slaves to Capitalism I can't find Comfort in Religion.

I want to address this. I am not comforted at all by the prospects of my afterlife especially if I choose a passive and weak cowardly way of life. This is where most Marxist arguments against religion tend to breakdown for Asatru. It is not the rewards I might get in the afterlife that drives me. It's being remembered.

Yes I am a theist, but my ancestors were right regardless of your beliefs about the universe: Cattle die, kinsmen die, but I know of one thing that never dies: the reputation of each dead man. My entire worldview is not comforting. It is not a path which allows for weakness and cowardice. It requires strength and wisdom which in turn requires sacrifice to obtain both. On top of that, conflict drives everything in my worldview, as does the interaction and intersection of Wyrd or fate. I don't even believe in absolute free will. Comfort is weakness, cowardice is vice. I do not live by "thou shall not". Thou shall nots do not allow one to learn from their mistakes, to earn wisdom from suffering and sacrifice.



"In the dark woodland of the Northern European consciousness, a figure waits: an old man, wrapped in a blue-black cloak. His broad-brimmed hat hangs low, hiding one eye; a sharp metal point glints at the tip of his staff, and two ravens croak from the branches of the ash-tree above him. He beckons: in his hand he holds an ancient drinking-horn, and the scent that rises from it is honey and alcohol, strong enough to set the head spinning with a single whiff. He is a grim one, this old man; his spear is streaked with blood, and the hounds that crouch at his side look more like wolves than dogs. Yet the gift he offers is enough to overcome fear, for the brave . . . for those who are not afraid to die."

-Kveldúlf Gundarsson, from Wotan: The Road to Valhalla


Fearlessness is better than a faint heart for any person who puts their nose out of doors. The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago.

That is all.

[InsertCleverUsername]

I would argue that Protestant Christianity in the Southern US is very negative towards the poorer class as it views being poor as being cursed by God. Capitalism is served by this particular brand of Christianity, and vice versa. Orthodox Christianity seems to be a particular sect that doesn't hate poor people, but if anything, promotes humble and poor living as the path to God. Same with Buddhism. For those forever oppressed by circumstances that will never let them leave poverty, religion can sometimes be the emotional cure that is very much required.