NYC Mayor kicks "Occupy Wall Street" protestors out for "cleaning"

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) – Wall Street protestors are being told they will have to pack up and leave — at least temporarily. However, some activists are now accusing Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who personally stopped by Zuccotti Park on Wednesday, of dirty politics.

Greeted by a mix of cheers and jeers, Bloomberg ordered the “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrators to get out of of the plaza long enough for the area to be sanitized on Friday morning by Brookfield Properties.

However, protestors say the cleanup sounds more like a clear out.

After 26 days of food, trash and other debris piling up high for pickup or recycling, Bloomberg’s office said while protesters “have a right continue to protest…the last three weeks have created unsanitary conditions and considerable wear and tear on the park.”

“Like wear and tear on what? On marble and concrete? Like how do we wear and tear that?” asked Will Schneider.

Schneider is not alone in his skepticism of the mayor’s cleanup plan. Other occupants are also none too pleased about the his announcement and told CBS 2′s Derricke Dennis that they were keeping the area clean by themselves.

“We are working 24/7; we do not rest. We encourage cleanliness. We encourage everyone to take care of their belongings and pack it up neatly,” said Lauren DiGoria of Clifton, N.J.

Protesters said the city has been trying to get them to leave for weeks, and with this plan to clean the park in stages on Friday, many say there’s now a clever excuse.

But the owner of the park, Brookfield Office Management, claims the area has not been maintained. It wrote to Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, saying “conditions at the Park have deteriorated to unsanitary and unsafe levels.”

Protesters deny those claims, pointing to their so-called “Red and Black Cross” of first-aid volunteers, a safety measure many say the mayor hasn’t seen.

They argue that since the mayor has not been in the area much, he cannot see how much or how little they actually clean.

The mayor’s office said “protesters will be able to return to the areas that have been cleaned, provided they abide by the rules that Brookfield has established for the park.”

[¿Que?]

This happening in my neck of the woods too. The city is coming in saying they have to clean the plaza and arresting people if they don't leave. ATM, I think people are hanging around the sidewalks because at least four people got arrested for trespassing. Basically, this ain't no hippie fest no more.

[Blackscare]

“Like wear and tear on what? On marble and concrete? Like how do we wear and tear that?” asked Will Schneider.




I'm sorry but this sentence sort of sums up to me everything I hate about the wandering freakfest nature of lots of these quasi-left gatherings that seem to pop up now and again in the US. Obviously there are all the weirdos that faux news camera crews love to pan to, but why do so many people insist on being inarticulate turds when asked questions by media? Can we have some more people who don't look like idiots or talk like idiots? It seems to be one or the other with this occupy shit. I hate to sound like a square, because most of you should know that I'm quite the degenerate myself, but I really just wish more people would show up looking "respectable" to these things with intelligent things to say. I don't care about whatever cutesy anarcho non-conformist justification of that shit that might exist, but the sad fact is this stuff just plays into the hands of the right. I know that these are mostly liberals but we have a lot of doofy habits on the left as a whole which really just alienate people. Stupid consensus jazz hands, obscure jargon, that one guy in that zizek video in another thread doing that trilling noise, whatever. There needs to be someone walking around smacking people when they look, talk, or act like total clowns. Come to think of it, I have this weekend off. ;)

I know that this is a random rant and has little to do with this thread, so sorry for that. Don't take this as anything deeper than a general lament about the general "left's" inability to present itself seriously to people.

[RED DAVE]

(1) This is an obvious move by Bloomshit to assert his authority.

(2) The form of a "hippy love fest" will always manifest itself so long as an Occupation of a demo is led by and most participants are, petit-bourgeois.

(3) At Occupy New York (I was there last night) there is absolutely no organized labor presence and no organized Left presence.

(4) WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE LEFT GROUPS?

(5) Conditions at the site are not particularly dirty.

ETA

(6) I hope no one is crazy enough to suggest resistance to this.

RED DAVE

[Nox]

You know your country's doomed when the government cares more about cleaning the streets than listening to the demands of the people.

[Die Neue Zeit]

(6) I hope no one is crazy enough to suggest resistance to this.

Not even civil disobedience? :confused:

Now look who's the conformist!

[RED DAVE]

Not even civil disobedience? :confused:

Now look who's the conformist!You are so full of shit it's coming out of your ears.

(1) You have little or no experience with civil disobedience.

(2) Your historical knowledge of civil disobedience is flawed and distorted due to your politics.

(3) You have no experience with Occupy Wall Street or, I suspect, the occupation[s] in your city or country.

So, Comrade, people like yourself need to shut the fuck up before you get a lot of people in trouble, which you will have no part in extricating them from. Get some concrete experience or become an active member of an organization that has some experience so you can talk to people before you start running off at the mouth.

RED DAVE

[KurtFF8]

(1) This is an obvious move by Bloomshit to assert his authority.

(2) The form of a "hippy love fest" will always manifest itself so long as an Occupation of a demo is led by and most participants are, petit-bourgeois.

(3) At Occupy New York (I was there last night) there is absolutely no organized labor presence and no organized Left presence.

(4) WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE LEFT GROUPS?

(5) Conditions at the site are not particularly dirty.

ETA

(6) I hope no one is crazy enough to suggest resistance to this.

RED DAVE

What time did you go?

I was there yesterday as well (around 3:30pm or so) and when I was there SEIU 32BJ came and was there en mass. There were also 2-3 different trot groups present as well as anarchists and there is a "communist-anarchist unity table"

I think that WWP folks go there sometimes and I know that PSL folks are there pretty often.

RCP has been strangely absent though

[PhoenixAsh]

Well...I must admit I kind of hope they will resist the "suggestion" by the mayor.

Three possibilities as I see it....

1). They will consent. The mayor keeps his word and they are allowed back after the cleaning. This will show once again how horribly conformist the occupation movement actually is. It will also send a signal that the tactic of cooperation is "working" cutting off or slowing down any potential radicalisation.

2). They will not consent and resist. Which is an important step in the process of radicalisation. Maybe this will lead to mass arrests...but I think that will lead to even further radicalisation and a definate sign politicians can not be trusted. If they manage to win this will be an empowering experience. If not...then they will undoubtedly become more determined.

3). They will consent. But will not be allowed back in. What happens then is anybodies guess. And I definately hope that if it is going to be this scenario they will try to take back the place.

Personally...I prefer the dissent part. But I am curious why people think that that should not happen and they should not resist.

[tir1944]

It seems that this "Occupy" "Revolution" or whatever will soon end up in the Dustbin of History...

[KurtFF8]

Why?

[tir1944]

Why?
What will happen when they chase all the protesters and sweep the streets?
Do you really think the authorities would let them get back to their positions?

[RED DAVE]

What will happen when they chase all the protesters and sweep the streets?
Do you really think the authorities would let them get back to their positions?(1) They almost certainly will be let back into the park.

(2) Since you are so certain it isn't going to happen, are you going to eat crow if it does?

RED DAVE

[¿Que?]

To be fair, Tir is right in suggesting this is a tactic to demoralize and demotivate the protesters. You can't really sleep if everynight they make you clear out to clean the park. And yes, at least in my neck of the woods, the plan was to clean every night (and under severe water restrictions due to drought no less), probably the same in NYC since it's the same lousy tactic, apparently.

Edit: I would suppose this is happening in other cities as well, or no?

[PhoenixAsh]

(1) They almost certainly will be let back into the park.

(2) Since you are so certain it isn't going to happen, are you going to eat crow if it does?

RED DAVE

I am curious; why do you think that will happen and why do you think it is a bad idea to resist this call from the mayor?

You mentioned something about the possible consequences of resisting which would get people into trouble. Though I appreciate the sentiment and concern you express here I am not entirely sure why this is necessarilly a bad thing.

[RED DAVE]

What time did you go?Twice at about 4:30 in the afternoon and once at about 8:30 at night.


I was there yesterday as well (around 3:30pm or so) and when I was there SEIU 32BJ came and was there en mass. There were also 2-3 different trot groups present as well as anarchists and there is a "communist-anarchist unity table"This is excellent news. Did you collect any leaflets, etc., that you can share with us?


I think that WWP folks go there sometimes and I know that PSL folks are there pretty often.Again, if you have material, scan it, get it from their websites, type it out, PLEASE!


RCP has been strangely absent thoughRCP is absent from this solar system. They are in orbit around the 4-th magnitude star Avakian, which is not even in this galaxy.

RED DAVE

[RED DAVE]

(1) They almost certainly will be let back into the park.

(2) Since you are so certain it isn't going to happen, are you going to eat crow if it does?
I am curious; why do you think that will happen and why do you think it is a bad idea to resist this call from the mayor?

You mentioned something about the possible consequences of resisting which would get people into trouble. Though I appreciate the sentiment and concern you express here I am not entirely sure why this is necessarilly a bad thing.I honestlythink that by Saturday, things will be back in swing. I believe in the goodwill of our honest Mayor Bloomberg (and the Sandman and the Tooth Fairy). But seriously, I think, politically, he can't get away with shutting it down.

The consequences of resistance would be massive arrests. While this might turn the public more seriously against Bloomberg and the 1%, the legal situation could be a nightmare and an expensive on. As a result of some of the antiwar activities in the mid-60s, some groups were nearly bankrupted by legal fees and spent years defending people, which crippled their ability to do outreach, and those were organized groups.

RED DAVE

[PhoenixAsh]

Personally I think it would be a good idea to resist the call from the mayor and organise a cleaning party themselves.

This serves an important political function for several reasons.

Not only does it reject the legitimacy of the government officials to break up or request a break up of the demonstration for whatever time period and whatever reason and thereby gives an important signal that the demonstration is not there to negotiate...nor there to be messed with.

It also rejects the dependence of the bourgeoisie officials on services rendered. Showing in force the mutual aid and social responsibility principles and dependency only on the community itself...self reliance...DIY and MA... which should be the basis of any society. By that completely negating the "hippie" image which is portrayed.

It would also serve, tied into the previous argument, as a propaganda tool...a positive message send to the outside which shows clearly that the solidarity of the group is a form of civic responsibility.

[RED DAVE]

To be fair, Tir is right in suggesting this is a tactic to demoralize and demotivate the protesters. You can't really sleep if everynight they make you clear out to clean the park. And yes, at least in my neck of the woods, the plan was to clean every night (and under severe water restrictions due to drought no less), probably the same in NYC since it's the same lousy tactic, apparently.

Edit: I would suppose this is happening in other cities as well, or no?As I understand it, this is not an every night thing, but a one-shot, which will probably repeated every two weeks or so.

I could be wrong. But of course it's a harassment tactic and a test of strength.

RED DAVE

[PhoenixAsh]

I honestlythink that by Saturday, things will be back in swing. I believe in the goodwill of our honest Mayor Bloomberg (and the Sandman and the Tooth Fairy). But seriously, I think, politically, he can't get away with shutting it down.

The consequences of resistance would be massive arrests. While this might turn the public more seriously against Bloomberg and the 1%, the legal situation could be a nightmare and an expensive on. As a result of some of the antiwar activities in the mid-60s, some groups were nearly bankrupted by legal fees and spent years defending people, which crippled their ability to do outreach, and those were organized groups.

RED DAVE

well that is indeed an argument... given the nature of the US to increase its prison population by any means and the complete and utter disrespect for basic rights... The potential costs of legal procedures for induviduals may result in the poorer segment being scared off and getting the brunt of the wrath of the police.

[RED DAVE]

Personally I think it would be a good idea to resist the call from the mayor and organise a cleaning party themselves.

This serves an important political function for several reasons.

Not only does it reject the legitimacy of the government officials to break up or request a break up of the demonstration for whatever time period and whatever reason and thereby gives an important signal that the demonstration is not there to negotiate...nor there to be messed with.

It also rejects the dependence of the bourgeoisie officials on services rendered. Showing in force the mutual aid and social responsibility principles and dependency only on the community itself...self reliance...DIY and MA... which should be the basis of any society. By that completely negating the "hippie" image which is portrayed.

It would also serve, tied into the previous argument, as a propaganda tool...a positive message send to the outside which shows clearly that the solidarity of the group is a form of civic responsibility.Ideally, this is the case. Practically, at this point it's impossible without organizing resistance. The Mayor is a vicious foe of the Occupation and will seize any attempt to break it up.

If there is violence, unless you contemplate that the forces supporting the Occupation would win an escalation of violence, to engage in such action is fooling. This ain't Egypt -- yet.

I would hope that the "organizers" of the Occupation will heed the situation and keep the place clean. I gather Hizzoner is going to try to impose very restrictive rules about lying down, sleeping, etc. It remains to be seen if he'll try it. I wouldn't put anything beyond him, including directly provoking violence.

The problem remains that the Occupation is still leaderless and disorganized. It will remain vulnerable to this kind of attack until it begins to organize (or be organized) beyond the parameters of a hippy encampment.

I believe that the Left groups that are apparently present should push for this is their literature (plus, of course, a lot more).

RED DAVE

[Rafiq]

Just goes to show how irrelevant this whole movement is.

[RedTrackWorker]

(1) They almost certainly will be let back into the park.

(2) Since you are so certain it isn't going to happen, are you going to eat crow if it does?

RED DAVE


Bloomberg says that the park will be open for public usage following the cleaning, but with a notable caveat: Occupy Wall Street participants must follow the “rules”. These rules include, "no tarps or sleeping bags" and "no lying down."
[snip]
PLEASE TAKE ACTION:
1) Call 311 and tell Bloomberg to support our right to assemble and to not interfere with #OWS. If you are calling from outside NY use this number 212-NEW-YORK.
2) Come to #OWS on FRIDAY AT 6AM to defend the occupation from eviction.


See full emergency notification from OWS here (http://occupywallst.org/article/emergency-call-action-prevent-forcible-closure-occ/).

I agree with Red Dave it's unlikely they'll just keep them out fully after the cleaning, but they might move the barricades closer, enforce no "lying down", etc. Not good at all.

[tbasherizer]

I agree with Red Dave it's unlikely they'll just keep them out fully after the cleaning, but they might move the barricades closer, enforce no "lying down", etc. Not good at all.

And then when the massive arrests and violence break out after some people try to lie down, the 'common sense' people will come out of the woodwork saying "well, they broke the law and resisted arrest, so the police were totally reasonable!". I like the line OWS is taking- resist the clean-up to avoid potential messiness afterwards.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

I believe a British physicist recently said that if the CERN findings that neutrinos can go faster than ligjht turn out to be true he will publicly eat his boxer shorts. It seems someone on this thread (I'm not quite sure who exactly) may find this to be useful

http://bertc.com/subfive/recipes/threecrows.htm

Anyway what is the next step? I do not live in New York (wish I did right now). I'm active in a small city. What should leftists do around the OWS movement? Could this closing lead to further radicalization? The mace attacks against young women and the bridge entrapment backfired and served to publicize and expand the movement, will this do the same?

[coda]

I was watching PBS Charlie Rose (unfortunately I don't have access to other news shows). They were "analyzing" Occupy Wall street with a panel of people. This guy William Buster, was there "representing" the protestors. I have no idea how he was chosen for this show or to speak for the protest. But in the little time he talked.. he said that the protesters were not against business, corporations, Capitalism or the rich etc.. just against corruption. He also said that although it is leaderless now.. it will not remain so and they are working toward something on that end.....

It seems horribly outside radicalized thought. Can it at this point even be led in the direction of workplace organizing and such or any kind of leftist mobilization?

I'm wondering if there are others going on mainstream news programs as spokesperson for the occupy movement? Anyone seen anything? I'm totally way out of the loop with mainstream news.


edit: find the charlie rose program aired on PBS last night. at 3:33 the protesting spokesperson states the OWS "objectives".

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11938

according to internet searches, Bill Buster is an actor,member of the Actors Union AFTRA, and supposed PR media spokesperson for Occupy Wall street, after getting involved after witnessing the Brooklyn Bridge arrests.

[ColonelCossack]

Why can't London have an occupy whitechapel, or the city, or something?

[Dunk]

Has the contrast struck any of you - how baffled and incapable of understanding the affluent are of this movement - and how easily it is understood by the working class?

I hope no one is injured this morning. However, I think many of the occupiers and supporters that will show this morning know full well that at this point they may face physical harm from the police soon. Can anyone else see how this is going to highlight the glaring injustice to people who are avidly watching this, supportive yet perhaps baffled as to what they could do, questioning whether to be involved?

Bloomberg is going to make himself the most perfect symbol of the corruption of the system. A billionaire mayor, who doesn't understand #OWS, who instead of respecting and engaging with the legitimate grievances of the people, instead works out some sort of backroom deal with a for-profit company that owns and operates a public space to fashion a pretext for the peaceful dissent of the disenfranchised to be smashed - violently!

DOES HE AIM TO HELP US? Or does his class position remove him so far from reality that he cannot conceive of what he is doing? Does he realize that people were to be mobilized for a special day of action this Saturday? Does he know how this is going to affect the numbers of the Occupations? Of the strength of its support? Does he know the GA's are encouraging people to withdrawal money from the big banks? Does he know that the Eurozone is teetering on the brink, and what this means for the financial sector and economy of the US and world?

We get it. They do not.

[ВАЛТЕР]

http://rt.com/news/line/2011-10-14/#id20229


Cleanup of OWS base in NY’s Zuccotti Park postponed

*The deputy mayor of New York City, Cas Holloway, has announced that the cleanup of Zuccotti Park in lower Manhattan has been postponed, the Associated Press said on Friday. The announcement was welcomed by hundreds of Occupy Wall Street protesters, who considered the cleanup as a pretext to disperse them. “We received notice from the owners of Zuccotti Park - Brookfield Properties - that they are postponing their scheduled cleaning of the park, and for the time being withdrawing their request from earlier in the week for police assistance during their cleaning operation," the deputy mayor's statement said. The cleanup was scheduled for early morning, when hundreds of demonstrators and their supporters streamed into the park. The protesters reportedly vowed to use civil disobedience if necessary in a bid to stay put. Zuccotti Park has been the base of the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations since mid-September.


Clean-up postponed

[Dunk]

Haha! They blinked!

[A Marxist Historian]

I honestlythink that by Saturday, things will be back in swing. I believe in the goodwill of our honest Mayor Bloomberg (and the Sandman and the Tooth Fairy). But seriously, I think, politically, he can't get away with shutting it down.

The consequences of resistance would be massive arrests. While this might turn the public more seriously against Bloomberg and the 1%, the legal situation could be a nightmare and an expensive on. As a result of some of the antiwar activities in the mid-60s, some groups were nearly bankrupted by legal fees and spent years defending people, which crippled their ability to do outreach, and those were organized groups.

RED DAVE

And the anti-war movement exploded. A movement which is afraid to go to jail is a waste of time.

It used to be a saying in the labor movement, back when it was a movement not a bureaucracy, that nobody should be elected to union office if he'd never spent time in jail during a strike.

This doesn't mean people should be throwing Molotov cocktails at the cops, people aren't ready for that. But if the OWS movement simply lets itself be kicked out of the park without resistance, the movement is over, forget about it.

And, as it turns out, Bloomberg backed down, showing he understood the situation better than Red Dave does.

If Bloomberg had seriously tried to prosecute hundreds of protestors who had resisted being kicked out of the park, that would have been a total fiasco, and it is very unlikely that a New York jury would convict anybody.

And the unions would have provided the lawyers, thereby strengthening the bonds between the movement and the working class. Perfect!

-M.H.-

[A Marxist Historian]

I was watching PBS Charlie Rose (unfortunately I don't have access to other news shows). They were "analyzing" Occupy Wall street with a panel of people. This guy William Buster, was there "representing" the protestors. I have no idea how he was chosen for this show or to speak for the protest. But in the little time he talked.. he said that the protesters were not against business, corporations, Capitalism or the rich etc.. just against corruption. He also said that although it is leaderless now.. it will not remain so and they are working toward something on that end.....

It seems horribly outside radicalized thought. Can it at this point even be led in the direction of workplace organizing and such or any kind of leftist mobilization?

Of course it can. All that is necessary is for the radicals to understand that many of the original leaders of these protests are worthless, and have to be fought. This movement sprang up almost out of nowhere, and its original leaders are fly-by-night figures with no real base, and can be edged out of the picture fairly easily with determined organized effort.

-M.H.-


I'm wondering if there are others going on mainstream news programs as spokesperson for the occupy movement? Anyone seen anything? I'm totally way out of the loop with mainstream news.


edit: find the charlie rose program aired on PBS last night. at 3:33 the protesting spokesperson states the OWS "objectives".

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11938

according to internet searches, Bill Buster is an actor,member of the Actors Union AFTRA, and supposed PR media spokesperson for Occupy Wall street, after getting involved after witnessing the Brooklyn Bridge arrests.

[Olentzero]

Haha! They blinked!They certainly fucking did, more power to the thousands (including hundreds of union members) who came out to protect the movement and the hundreds of thousands who protested in other ways.

[Desperado]

It seems that this "Occupy" "Revolution" or whatever will soon end up in the Dustbin of History...

It seems you want this "Occupy" "Revolution" or whatever to soon end up in the Dustbin of History..

[GatesofLenin]

With the recent reveal of NYPD cops planting drugs on innocent people to help cases along, wouldn't surprise me one bit if the NYPD claim to have "FOUND" a "huge drug stash" amongst the OWS folks.