Occupy Melbourne?

[Battlecat]

http://occupymelbourne.org/
Melbourne, and other Australian cities, now have their own "occupy" movements. Wondering what everyone thinks about them. Do they have potential, and will anyone here be going?

[thefinalmarch]

I would like to be there only for curiosity's sake, but I'm not a worker nor am I technically part of any class for that matter, therefore my involvement in a potential working class movement would be undesirable and would ultimately be an interference in matters that aren't mine to nose around in, because I feel that this movement should be an organic, strictly working class one - I don't want to see it fall into the hands of liberals and self-proclaimed revolutionary leftist activists.

[thefinalmarch]

On another note, what would you expect the turnout for occupy melbourne to actually be? There's shitty political situation in Australia and I expect these occupations to fail dismally.

[thefinalmarch]

It looks as if the assemblies are going to be run by consensus, as they have been in pretty much all the occupations. There goes any conceivable radicalisation.

[Battlecat]

It looks as if the assemblies are going to be run by consensus, as they have been in pretty much all the occupations. There goes any conceivable radicalisation.
in what way?

[thefinalmarch]

in what way?
Consensus allows minority factions, often supported by outside political interests, to veto any decisions which could be considered to be too radical, like actually going in and occupying important capitalist institutions, or engaging in self-defense against cops, etc.. It means that liberal influences (which have so far been the dominant influence in Occupy x!, so I'm using it as an example) can prevent true expressions of class struggle from actually taking place.

[Battlecat]

Consensus allows minority factions, often supported by outside political interests, to veto any decisions which could be considered to be too radical, like actually going in and occupying important capitalist institutions, or engaging in self-defense against cops, etc.. It means that liberal influences (which have so far been the dominant influence in Occupy x!, so I'm using it as an example) can prevent true expressions of class struggle from actually taking place.
but if we're (revolutionary socialists) there agitating and propaganda..izing, wouldn't we be able to turn the people to our cause?

[Killforpeace]

in what way?

Pretty pessimistic about Australians right now...

I read somewhere that a lot of people were protesting about the carbon tax, not because they don't believe it will work, but skeptics of climate change and how its a hoax for corporations to be able to increase prices and full of shit like that, thats the corporate greed were protesting about :confused: well sydney anyway.

Glad I only have 2 weeks left in this place!

[Battlecat]

Pretty pessimistic about Australians right now...

I read somewhere that a lot of people were protesting about the carbon tax, not because they don't believe it will work, but skeptics of climate change and how its a hoax for corporations to be able to increase prices and full of shit like that, thats the corporate greed were protesting about :confused: well sydney anyway.

Glad I only have 2 weeks left in this place!
Yes, but our counter-protest was MUCH bigger, and the tax was passed this morning. So, what's your point?

[thefinalmarch]

http://occupymelbourne.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/occupy-melbourne-poster-2-3.jpg

This is one of the "official" posters. Shit like this depresses me. I understand Occupy Together is still in its infancy, but people still need to learn that the modern state is necessarily tied to the interests of business. They are inseparable, and neither business nor the state are favourable anyway.

Anyway I've decided I'll probably head down there on Saturday. Likely won't take part in anything though, for the reasons given above.

Melbourne looks to have the biggest turnout as well. 4,200 people have "liked" the facebook page for Occupy Melbourne, in contrast with 2,300 for Brisbane, 1,600 for Sydney, 600 for Perth and only 200 for Adelaide.

[Die Neue Zeit]

"Separate business and state" is a pro-privatization slogan and goes against public ownership.

[Battlecat]

"Separate business and state" is a pro-privatization slogan and goes against public ownership.
You've clearly miss-interpreted it. It's talking about stopping businesses owning the government. Nothing about pro-privatisation.
http://occupymelbourne.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/occupy-melb-iww.jpg
For example - that is clearly an anti-privatisation message.

[thefinalmarch]

You've clearly miss-interpreted it. It's talking about stopping businesses owning the government. Nothing about pro-privatisation.
Whilst this is correct, the underlying idea seems to be that although business should not interfere with the government, business should be allowed to carry on functioning, etc.

However I'm clearly expecting too much from the movement, too soon.

[Battlecat]

Whilst this is correct, the underlying idea seems to be that although business should not interfere with the government, business should be allowed to carry on functioning, etc.

However I'm clearly expecting too much from the movement, too soon.
Well, they've identified corporations as the problem with the world. It's a start. Soon they'll get thinking "well, how can we fix corporations to make the world better?". The only logical conclusion to that is worker's control of them.

Now, I may be extremely idealistic [I am], but that could happen. Of course, if we're down there in City Square just talking to people and explaining our views, we could convert some yet. It guess only time will tell.

[Rousedruminations]

Occupy Melbourne won't happen we are already sheltered as it is from our exports to China, there is no real economic stagnation or decline. Employment is at around 5 percent compared to the levels of 11 % in the US, its almost halved here, finding any such sentiment as there has been across the US and Europe would be difficult to Search for in Australia.

[thefinalmarch]

Occupy Melbourne won't happen
It will certainly happen. There are enough Melbournians dissatisfied with the system to ensure that an occupation will take place, although that number is relatively little.

The real question here is "what will Occupy Melbourne actually achieve?"

To answer that with absolute certainty, we will have to wait it out and see.

[thefinalmarch]

kinda bummed I can't attend because of family commitments

[Battlecat]

kinda bummed I can't attend because of family commitments
My mother won't let me go alone because "those middle class kids in balaclavas might turn up and start throwing things"

....

Yeah

[Battlecat]

My Experiences With Occupy Melbourne:

A wall of text by Battlecat

Well, the occupation was fairly successful. I arrived around 12-ish, just as a representative of (what I assumed to be) students for Palestine was addressing the audience gathered around the "stage". After she'd said her speech and received a round of applause, her and other pro-Palestine protesters made their way to Max Brenner, the chocolate shop, in opposition to their support of "Israeli Apartheid".

As the protesters shuffled along to the chocolate bar, me and my friends decided to walk through the crowd and visit the stalls set up by the different leftist parties.

I got into a two hour long discussion (more like a history lesson) with a representative from the Socialist Alternative, talking about Wallstreet, Melbourne, the Qantas strikes, Russian history, Kronstadt, Chavez and, of course, the Socialist Alliance.

As this was going on, the Max Brenner protests were met with about 12 mounted police officers and numerous police on foot.

An hour or so later, the protesters came marching back towards the occupy site, screaming out "WHO'S STREETS?!? OUR STREETS!!!" as they were surrounded by mounted police officers.

Overall there was a buzzing sense that something was happening within the occupy movement, as if there could be something come from it. The place was filled with anti-capitalist signs (and one which read "BRING BACK FIREFLY!") however, many there seemed to feel that a direct opposition to capitalism wasn't the answer, and some, such as my friend, thought it could work if we put "nice people in charge".

Overall, I would say that the occupation has potential. There's a strong Marxist presence in the area, as well as some stalls by the IWW and other anarchist groups.

If we can maintain that presence, and manage to get more ordinary workers involved, then I would say that real change could be achieved.

Unfortunately I couldn't stay for the general assembly, however their minutes are up on the website. (http://occupymelbourne.org/2011/10/15/occupy-melbournes-first-general-assembly-minutes/)

Particular stand outs include:


That homeless people are welcome at occupy Melbourne and have access to any of our resources.
Result: endorsed.and

Melbourne is occupied territory. Australia is stolen land. Sovereignty was never ceded. We have come together to occupy Melbourne. We cannot ignore that we do so in the context of another occupation: the violent colonisation of this continent. We are here because we want a genuine democracy, a humane economy, justice. We cannot achieve these goals while the crimes of colonisation continue. An end to colonial activity is central to our aims. A racist society has socialised us all into racism. We will strive to recognise and respond to racist behaviours in our occupation of Melbourne and we invite criticism of our actions; we want to be better.
Result: endorsed.Also, a consensus wasn't reached on the proposal "We are against capitalism." However, it's early days yet - and there was a strong Marxist presence at the occupy site.

I guess we'll have to wait and see who's still there on Monday to judge the success or failure of the movement in the short term.

[thefinalmarch]

aPbcAd-d-tw

[Battlecat]

aPbcAd-d-tw

It's pretty shocking - at the march from Fed Square today I was talking to some comrades who'd had their faces beaten in. But, we caught every bit of police brutality on camera, and Fridays shocking attack on our peaceful movement has only solidified our legitimacy, and given us support. Hell, even the Murdoch press was *slightly* sympathetic to the occupation