Americans have more faith in Capitalism than in a mass labor movement. Let's b honest

[R_P_A_S]

Most of what you are about to read could be consider "preaching to the choir". But I need to keep it real. This I think...

Concerning the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) movement across the United States there are different groups and factions present some are pushing for their own agenda and stressing their theories. Everyone seems to be present:

Drum banging hippies
Conspiracy Theorist
Animal Liberation
Ron Paul Libertarians
Obama 2012 Campaign Supporters
Disgruntled small business owners
Students in debt
Different levels of unemployed
Socialist, Anarchist & Communist
"enter your choice of progressive sect here:_________

The OWS main organizers do hold "assembly meetings" They have different sectors. I know I'm missing some but here's what I saw; Security, Media and a Demands assembly. Now please correct me if I'm wrong or add to them if you know better.

Despite the numerous claims of this being a "leaderless" movement it's safe to say that the main organizers, OWS under the "We are the 99%" slogan are in fact spear heading this movement, after all it's them who are holding these assemblies and issued some demands.

When OWS began it's safe to say that what we mainly saw a group of middle class white people protesting what they theme was an unfair system with a very vague agenda and very idealistic vision. This however has changed as we are seeing different elements of people and even some known labor unions and organizations take part in joining this movement.

I think is safe to say that no matter what your political ideology may be we all can agree that this protest, this show of anger against the capitalist system is more than justified, but what I know we all can't agree on is what's supposed to come next and how to obtain it.

Things to take into consideration:

The United States working class is extremely underdeveloped. More people still believe they have a legit shot at the American Dream as long as they are able to play by the rules and work hard. (despite the statistics showing how the gap between poor and rich has grown more in the last 30 years than ever in history and rampant austerity.)

Is it safe to assume that most of the protestors and the OWS movement want a "nicer and more just capitalist system."? In other words, Reform. All working people with class consciousness know this is a huge oxymoron as there's no such thing. What does a system and society become when "the 99%" want to make an undemocratic and exploiting system like capitalism work for them and not just for the "1%"? Seriously? What does that even look like?

It's no secret that the majority of the leadership in America's labor unions are more concern in making business deals and preserving their comfy status than to call for a general labor strike.

Can we say that IDEA of "The American Dream" is still more lucrative and attainable for the average person in the US? While getting on board of an organized labor movement to create a more just system seems extremely abstract?


Whoa! Whoa!! HOLD YOUR REVOLUTION HORSES!

Before any of you close you eyes and imagine a heroic victory of the working class think about this.

Not even Marx could have imagined the level of Capitalism the United State has gotten to this decade. There isn't any other country in the world like this one. I dare you to find one... People maybe be broke but they can still get things. It's like that quote "Rich people have big libraries, Poor people have big TVs".

I know people who have minimum wages jobs YET still manage to have a nice car and the latest lap top or some sort of material possession that gives them some sort of sense of satisfaction... and the fact that they believe they can get more in this system that props it self on the consumerist economy gives them faith that "their time is coming, just around the corner.. why risk it?."

There isn't any other place on Earth where there's a recession going on yet people are still borrowing and spending what they don't have. This is the American way of life and nothing extremely terrible has happened to the entire country for a very long time in order to develop their "class consciousness".

My social circle does not include only people who think like me. My friends and acquaintances cover a broad spectrum and by keeping my self surrounded by what I would consider "the average person", it's safe for me to say that the general consensus amongst most people is that they feel that this system has lend them a bad hand but they still are hopeful in turning things around for themselves, if they can make the capitalist system more fair. Not necessarily by working for someone else but by the notion that you can be your own boss and attain financial freedom by starting your own business. These ideals are still very much alive for most of the population, including the OWS protestors.

Only an organized labor movement and class conscious working class understands and knows that this system has to be eradicated and in order for real change to take place. It should be replaced by representative democracy both at work and in the economy. A model that thrives on cooperation instead of competition. In conclusion, I am somewhat pessimistic on the future for this OWS movement, because class consciousness is not present in the majority of these protestors and the labor movement, with all due has been decaying since the 1950's and it's really weak.

[R_P_A_S]

I feel like no one ever really has anything to add when i try to post something that i feel is important. Someone add their two cents.. how am i supposed t learn if no one gives input?

[R_P_A_S]

anyone that goes to the OWS events often or is there now reading this... whats your take?

[Mr. Natural]

R P A S, You wrote, "Not even Marx could have imagined the level of Capitalism the United States has gotten to this decade."

Your entire post pointed to capitalism's mental as well as physical capture of the human species. Capitalism is the socio-economic system from hell gone global, which means that humanity in general has been subsumed within The System's institutions, values, and practices. We have all become "parts" within capitalism's "whole" in various ways; we all think as well as act within capitalism's global arena.

One measure of capitalism's systemic mental capture of humanity is the general lack of interest in revolutionary organizing theory at RevLeft, and the resort to old, failed formulae when the topic is raised. There is a resistance to new ideas and approaches--despite the left's inability to organize--that I find dismaying.

I appreciate your spirit, RPAS. My posts, too, are usually ignored, but that doesn't necessarily mean we're wrong. Perhaps we're just out of step with the times and capitalism's envelopment of humanity, and that's good.

Venceremos!

[A Marxist Historian]

Most of what you are about to read could be consider "preaching to the choir". But I need to keep it real. This I think...

Concerning the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) movement across the United States there are different groups and factions present some are pushing for their own agenda and stressing their theories. Everyone seems to be present:

Drum banging hippies
Conspiracy Theorist
Animal Liberation
Ron Paul Libertarians
Obama 2012 Campaign Supporters
Disgruntled small business owners
Students in debt
Different levels of unemployed
Socialist, Anarchist & Communist
"enter your choice of progressive sect here:_________

The OWS main organizers do hold "assembly meetings" They have different sectors. I know I'm missing some but here's what I saw; Security, Media and a Demands assembly. Now please correct me if I'm wrong or add to them if you know better.

Despite the numerous claims of this being a "leaderless" movement it's safe to say that the main organizers, OWS under the "We are the 99%" slogan are in fact spear heading this movement, after all it's them who are holding these assemblies and issued some demands.

When OWS began it's safe to say that what we mainly saw a group of middle class white people protesting what they theme was an unfair system with a very vague agenda and very idealistic vision. This however has changed as we are seeing different elements of people and even some known labor unions and organizations take part in joining this movement.

I think is safe to say that no matter what your political ideology may be we all can agree that this protest, this show of anger against the capitalist system is more than justified, but what I know we all can't agree on is what's supposed to come next and how to obtain it.

Things to take into consideration:

The United States working class is extremely underdeveloped. More people still believe they have a legit shot at the American Dream as long as they are able to play by the rules and work hard. (despite the statistics showing how the gap between poor and rich has grown more in the last 30 years than ever in history and rampant austerity.)

Is it safe to assume that most of the protestors and the OWS movement want a "nicer and more just capitalist system."? In other words, Reform. All working people with class consciousness know this is a huge oxymoron as there's no such thing. What does a system and society become when "the 99%" want to make an undemocratic and exploiting system like capitalism work for them and not just for the "1%"? Seriously? What does that even look like?

It's no secret that the majority of the leadership in America's labor unions are more concern in making business deals and preserving their comfy status than to call for a general labor strike.

Can we say that IDEA of "The American Dream" is still more lucrative and attainable for the average person in the US? While getting on board of an organized labor movement to create a more just system seems extremely abstract?


Whoa! Whoa!! HOLD YOUR REVOLUTION HORSES!

Before any of you close you eyes and imagine a heroic victory of the working class think about this.

Not even Marx could have imagined the level of Capitalism the United State has gotten to this decade. There isn't any other country in the world like this one. I dare you to find one... People maybe be broke but they can still get things. It's like that quote "Rich people have big libraries, Poor people have big TVs".

I know people who have minimum wages jobs YET still manage to have a nice car and the latest lap top or some sort of material possession that gives them some sort of sense of satisfaction... and the fact that they believe they can get more in this system that props it self on the consumerist economy gives them faith that "their time is coming, just around the corner.. why risk it?."

There isn't any other place on Earth where there's a recession going on yet people are still borrowing and spending what they don't have. This is the American way of life and nothing extremely terrible has happened to the entire country for a very long time in order to develop their "class consciousness".

My social circle does not include only people who think like me. My friends and acquaintances cover a broad spectrum and by keeping my self surrounded by what I would consider "the average person", it's safe for me to say that the general consensus amongst most people is that they feel that this system has lend them a bad hand but they still are hopeful in turning things around for themselves, if they can make the capitalist system more fair. Not necessarily by working for someone else but by the notion that you can be your own boss and attain financial freedom by starting your own business. These ideals are still very much alive for most of the population, including the OWS protestors.

Only an organized labor movement and class conscious working class understands and knows that this system has to be eradicated and in order for real change to take place. It should be replaced by representative democracy both at work and in the economy. A model that thrives on cooperation instead of competition. In conclusion, I am somewhat pessimistic on the future for this OWS movement, because class consciousness is not present in the majority of these protestors and the labor movement, with all due has been decaying since the 1950's and it's really weak.

Well, there's some truth in what you're saying, but what you are missing is that things are changing.

Upward social mobility? The traditional way to get that is college education. Have you noticed what is happening to college tuitions lately? A brick wall is standing in front of the "American Dream."

Somebody came up with some figures last week, saw 'em on TV, that the average standard of living of the average American has gone down by 20% under Obama.

And this is for white people. What is going on with nonwhite communities lately is insane. The average net worth of the average black family during the Obama administration has dropped by 90%! I am not making that up, that's the actual figure.

So yes, for 200 years, until about a decade or two ago, Americans had the highest standard of living in the world. That creates a lot of social intertia, with the *first* reaction from the American people to the world crisis of capitalism being the Tea Party movement, the dream that if you just get rid of all the political reforms of the last few decades, and even the New Deal reforms of Roosevelt, you can go back to traditional American prosperity, the good old days.

But that doesn't work, and people are starting to figure that out, and the OWS movement is the first sign of that.

Patience is required, the marchers are not going to all go socialist overnight. But this offers the opportunity for revival and reestablishment of a Left in this country, by fighting *against* the Democrats and labor bureaucrats who want to coopt this movement, and just as much against the fly-by-night Facebook pseudoradicals who started this movement with their empty populist nonsloganeering.

There are people who go to these rallies, ordinary Americans, who have begun to grasp that capitalism is the problem and socialism is the solution. They need to be organized, so they can fight the Democrats, liberals and pseudoradicals, and recreate a Left in America.

0-M.H.-

[Threetune]

I feel like no one ever really has anything to add when i try to post something that i feel is important. Someone add their two cents.. how am i supposed t learn if no one gives input?

I’m repeating this for the folks at the back to hear !



IT IS THE WIDE RANGING LEVELS OF DEBATE AND THE PARTISIPATION OF MANY ‘DIFFERENT’ PEOPLE IN THAT DEBATE THAT IS ITSELF THE NEW REVOLUTIONARY PHANOMINA.

It is pointless trying to guess at what will happen next. Let's look at what is and take it from there. Right now (reportedly) there is NO Consensus about what to say or do or think, but still the 'movement' of this diverse group of people is there and spreading around the US and the world.

Put any template you like on top of it from the historical record in order to define it and we can find close matches and some near parallels, but none of the old templates fit this new phenomena because it is a spontaneous response to an economic, social and political reality that has never existed before.

That is what is giving rise to the unprecedented debate being generated around it, 54 threads on this sight alone, together with the confused response of the 'establishment' which by turns has tried to ignore it, court it, or condemn it.

IT IS THE WIDE RANGING LEVELS OF DEBATE AND THE PARTISIPATION OF SO MANY PEOPLE IN THAT DEBATE THAT IS ITSELF THE NEW REVOLUTIONARY PHANOMINA.

The people are beginning, albeit tentatively, to debate widely about the future of, well, everything.

The best activity communists can do now is to invite all workers to participate in the DEBAT and let the ‘Occupy movement’ become the Great Talking Shop. Demand that everyone who wants to speak be given five minutes’ at the microphone – more if the assembly want to hear more.

The DEBATE and wining the debate, polemic, arguments, out in the open in front of the working class is the opportunity for communism.

Seize the day!

[R_P_A_S]

Today I read this on the OWS website and I have to admit.. It made me smile haha. This is the type of language that needs to be use... To get people to start asking questions!


October 15th Call to Action (http://occupywallst.org/article/10-15-call-to-action/)

Posted Oct. 14, 2011, 1:07 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt (http://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/)
Over the last 30 years, the 1% have created a global economic system - neoliberalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism) - that attacks our human rights and destroys our environment. Neoliberalism is worldwide - it is the reason you no longer have a job, it is the reason you cannot afford healthcare, education, food, your mortgage.
Neoliberalism is your future stolen.
Neoliberalism is everywhere, gutting labor standards, living wages, social contracts, and environmental protections. It is "a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money." (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405) It is a system that ravages the global south and creates global financial crisis - crisis in Spain, in Greece, in the United States. It is a system built on greed and thrives on destablizing shocks.
It allows the 1% to enrich themselves by impoverishing humanity.
This has to stop!
We must usher in an era of democratic and economic justice.
We must change, we must evolve.
On October 15th the world will rise up as one and say, "We have had enough! We are a new beginning, a global fight on on all fronts that will usher in an era of shared prosperity, respect, mutual aid, and dignity."