who will replace the police?

[mrld1630]

In a socialist or communist society; since police are a fascist institution who will keep people from stealing, hurting, or killing others.

I mean I know a socialist society is supposed to be "perfect" but until we get there who is going to replace the police to uphold order and prevent people from being killed.

I mean I understand if would have to be radically different from modern policing.

Would it be a "workers militia", "people's army" or something different?

[Blake's Baby]

There will be no private property. So 'stealing' won't really exist in any very meaningful way. Sure, you can take my toothbrush (but you'll never take my freedom). I can just get another one. No biggy, really, just a bit baffling.

Why would people want to hurt each other? When we live unalienated lives of free creativity, the urge to dominate others to affirm our own worth will, surely, disappear, won't it?

Ditto killing. The vast majority of crimes in capitalism are committed because people live shitty lives and come up against a system that oppresses them. When all that's gone, so will the vast majority of anti-social behaviour.

But there will be some things I'm sure that require something like 'policing'. Partly, we'll all do it. I'm really not comfortable with the idea of a special seperate 'police force' even a socialist one.

[Искра]

Still, there will be people who are anti-social because of various reasons. Communism will never be a perfect society and, since there’s no such thing as “the end of history”, it will evolve constantly. So, in that society there will always be murder, rape, paedophiles and all sorts of “evil” and “sick” things that people do to each other. I’m not saying that doing bad things is in “humans nature” (I don’t believe in “human nature”), but even without capitalism and state oppression there will be “reasons” for committing violent acts against each other, there will still be little repressions within society and human relationships (within family, workplace, “crew” etc.).

How will people protect against that? Certainly not with the police, because police can’t protect you from act of violence, because they are not Borg and they can’t foresee act of violence and their only function is to punish. The problem is with them that they are only ones who can punish (even they are just a tool, but they are a tool which is allowed to punish) and that they are centralised in one place where they get orders from. So, in communist society there will be no such institution. People would be armed and they’ll organise themselves as they want to.

How, I don’t know, but that is really interesting and important topic, because for example what would happen if people from one community decide to kill a paedophile, or to cut off his little man?

[citizen of industry]

What about elected police, who can only work in their own community and are responsible to it, serve a short time and are recallable by the community? Something like a civic duty.

A bit like the old rural sheriff and deputy system, only more democratic.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Police aren't fascists.They are defenders of the ruling class interests but not fascists.

I advocate peoples militias as the replacement to police.

[The Jay]

What about elected police, who can only work in their own community and are responsible to it, serve a short time and are recallable by the community? Something like a civic duty.

A bit like the old rural sheriff and deputy system, only more democratic.

I support the communist sheriff system on grounds of pure awesome. Seriously though, I think that you're onto something.

[rundontwalk]

I've wondered this myself, though in a sort of different context. Say you get a serial killer. Who is going to be responsible for, you know, collecting DNA from crime scenes..that kind of stuff?

[CommunityBeliever]

Still, there will be people who are anti-social because of various reasons. Communism will never be a perfect society and, since there’s no such thing as “the end of history”, it will evolve constantly. So, in that society there will always be murder, rape, paedophiles and all sorts of “evil” and “sick” things that people do to each other.

Actually, all destructive / predatory behaviour can be completely eliminated using mental architecture reprogramming through techniques such as genetic engineering / wireheading.

Unmodified humans inevitably will commit some crimes, and surely that can be dealt with by something moderately similar, but much better, then today's police forces.

[Die Neue Zeit]

What about elected police, who can only work in their own community and are responsible to it, serve a short time and are recallable by the community? Something like a civic duty.

A bit like the old rural sheriff and deputy system, only more democratic.

I like that. It's a more refreshing approach than the tired "workers militias" BS.

[Agent Equality]

Actually, all destructive / predatory behaviour can be completely eliminated using mental architecture reprogramming through techniques such as genetic engineering / wireheading.

Unmodified humans inevitably will commit some crimes, and surely that can be dealt with by something moderately similar, but much better, then today's police forces.

wat :confused:

[Savage]

robots

[StoneFrog]

I will, and i hope you will too.

[Joseph S.]

Aldo i hate the pig's i fear this wil be the alternatif.
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[tir1944]

The People's Militia (Militsiya)

[Decommissioner]

I imagine police will be replaced by elected public servants, they will "protect and serve" the people in a real meaningful way.

[GatesofLenin]

Can we have the public oversee this as a group of like-minded individuals? Like a community-policing program where everyone watches each others back and so forth.
I like the idea of having citizens be the defenders of a just system like communism.

[Zealot]

Whereas in the current systems police are a tool of the state, it will become a tool of the proletariat, a People's Guard which will deal with the usual crimes and quashing terrorism and counter-revolutionary activities. However, the police force as it stands today would need a huge reform to make it a democratic establishment rather than a tool of fascism and capitalism.

[thefinalmarch]

Actually, all destructive / predatory behaviour can be completely eliminated using mental architecture reprogramming through techniques such as genetic engineering / wireheading.

Unmodified humans inevitably will commit some crimes, and surely that can be dealt with by something moderately similar, but much better, then today's police forces.
this is largely speculation

go away.

[molotovcocktail]

I think almost all criminality occur because of the alienation of the poor in the capitalist society. Many feel they are not a part of the society, so they don't care about it. In a socialist society, all will be included. Most people would therefore have a higher barrier for committing crime. The amount of police will be drastically reduced, because of the lowering in crime.

[Conscript]

The police should be downsized or the job simplified to help make it a rotated responsibility.

[Kamos]

Who will replace a police? A workers' police. It'll get an overhaul in its structure and function but otherwise it will still be a police force.

[Sputnik_1]

People would be armed and they’ll organise themselves as they want to.

armed? I don't really like the idea of everyone being armed like we couldn't trust each other ... it sounds a bit like american hysteria. You know, 20 different guns in house, double lock on the door etc.
I think that most of violent acts have their roots, even if realizing that is not always direct or immediate, in capitalism.
I think that in a communist world crimes would gradually disappear (cause u'll always get a prick who "liked it" the way it was before, probably cause was disgustingly rich or so). Well, actually saying that they would completely disappear would be naive, but they would be really rare and hardly ever serious. You don't need anything like police then. Punishing, however, wouldn't be as simplistic as it is today. There are always reasons(problems) beyond crimes and they need to be understood and solved in first place.

[piet11111]

The police should be downsized or the job simplified to help make it a rotated responsibility.

Obviously we would still require experts for forensics and autopsy's those jobs can not be rotated.

[Commissar Rykov]

Obviously we would still require experts for forensics and autopsy's those jobs can not be rotated.
Indeed, I think we need to make some obvious differences between Beat Cops and specialist positions like detectives, forensics, and the like that require specialized training.

[Conscript]

Obviously we would still require experts for forensics and autopsy's those jobs can not be rotated.

You probably could if you simplified the labor in some way, like using the assistance of machines. I suppose we should only rotate jobs that are undesirable or give legal powers, like a street officer/militiaman.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Shall we discuss the pros and cons of the Soviet militsiya?

[EvilRedGuy]

this is largely speculation

go away.


Actually its not.

go away.

[piet11111]

You probably could if you simplified the labor in some way, like using the assistance of machines. I suppose we should only rotate jobs that are undesirable or give legal powers, like a street officer/militiaman.

Simplification would be desirable but clearly the benefits of an expert would be the expertise that comes with it.
You could train anyone to dust for fingerprints but if they start walking about in a crimescene where they do not know what they are doing they will more then likely ruin evidence.

[Zav]

Obviously we would still require experts for forensics and autopsy's those jobs can not be rotated.
People who have an interest in such a field would go to school for it, like now, except that the school will be free (as in speech and beer) and democratic. The only rotating jobs would be the undesirable ones or one's that could result in the abuse of power.

As for coppers, they're just a gun attached to a head. They're only a tool. People's Militias are great for the Revolution and/or protection from invading Capies/Fascists/Statists/etcetera, but they shouldn't be used for justice, which requires fair trial, something not guaranteed by a bunch of armed workers. In the stead of punishment, there will be rehabilitation. In a Communist society, most causes of crime are eliminated, and extensive medical care will provide for the mentally ill. A Communist society would only have residual Capitalists if the society is achieved through Marxism. Through the Anarchist method, Capies wouldn't join the local commune.
"He who shall not coöperate, nor shall he eat."
Unless a Capie grows all hir own food, makes all hir supplies, and provides hir own healthcare, they'd be pretty much screwed.

[Belleraphone]

As an Anarchist, I would feel more comfortable with some kind of institution that operates like the police was present. Police carry out the whims of the state, but when the state is abolished, the police could carry out the needs of the community. I imagine reactionaries may try to return society into a per-revolutionary period through terrorism, urban warfare, ect. Police would be a good counter to that.

[EvilRedGuy]

The thing i fear is that the police/militias/whatever might abuse their power, who would stop them? I have also seen people here on RevLeft advocate a democratic elected judge(or whatever you call it), but how would that work if say, for example the judge close-related(friends, children, etc.) accidently got killed by someone and the judge would seek personal revenge? Abuse of power can easily happen in the hands of the few minority, aswell as in the hands of a uneducated majority, therefore i assume people would be policing and controlling and deciding for themself. If someone was to do something (on purpose only of course otherwise they would be reminded), like poisoning a water supply or causing a nuclear meltdown, especially if they were the only ones who knew how to stop it.

[thefinalmarch]

The thing i fear is that the police/militias/whatever might abuse their power, who would stop them? I have also seen people here on RevLeft advocate a democratic elected judge(or whatever you call it), but how would that work if say, for example the judge close-related(friends, children, etc.) accidently got killed by someone and the judge would seek personal revenge? Abuse of power can easily happen in the hands of the few minority, aswell as in the hands of a uneducated majority, therefore i assume people would be policing and controlling and deciding for themself. If someone was to do something (on purpose only of course otherwise they would be reminded), like poisoning a water supply or causing a nuclear meltdown, especially if they were the only ones who knew how to stop it.
I doubt we would see an established court system like we have today. I personally think we're more likely to see tribunals of some variety forming in an ad hoc manner, but that's just my speculation.

[EvilRedGuy]

You mean that people should come together and all be the judge, by being honest about their words and saying their story of the situation (were the where, who they save, etc.). Of course there should not (i hope not) be a corrupted court-system like the one we have today, which only was created to serve the purpose of defending capital and is discriminating in its nature, anyway.

[thefinalmarch]

You mean people coming together and all be the judge by being honest and saying their story of the situation (were the where, who they save, etc.) of course there (i hope not) be a corrupted court system like the one we have today, which only was created to serve the purpose of defending capital and is discriminating in its nature.
Sorry I can't really understand what you're trying to say here...

[ericksolvi]

I've wondered this myself, though in a sort of different context. Say you get a serial killer. Who is going to be responsible for, you know, collecting DNA from crime scenes..that kind of stuff?

Law enforcement is a tricky issue, I kind of like the short term police service idea. Kind of like jury duty with a gun.
I think it's prudent to think of investigation as separate from enforcement. Society will still need CSI experts, and investigators to determine guilt in difficult situations. So long as those doing the investigating aren't doing the arresting, then there's no reason why the investigators can't function the same as any other office.