What do you do when your local comrades fall short of ideals?

[ericksolvi]

I live in Spokane WA. Protesters downtown are holding small demonstrations every day in support of Occupy Wall St. I've hung out with them on several occasions, I'm a bit shy and do more observing then interacting.
What I've observed is that the whole group seems utterly useless, and constantly violate their own stated principles.
They have a list of principles/regulations for the protest. Simple things "No weapons" "No Profanity" "We are leaderless" "We will have respect for one another".
Now yesterday when I was downtown there was a guy with a megaphone and about ever fourth word he used was "Fuck" or some derivation there of. Nobody said anything. Another dude pics up the megaphone says "We are the fucking 99%" and this older gentlemen, who had been standing around the whole time, gets real pissed at him and says "I won't tolerate that shit. Get off the fucking property" we were on a side walk so the last part of the statement no sense. The person who at first was cursing into the megaphone laughs at the second and says "I can get away with that shit but you can't".
If we can't stick to our own principles even at small gatherings it's a bad sign for the movement. One person making themselves the De facto leader by being pushier then others is not a leaderless demonstration. One person being allowed to brake a code of conduct while another is harassed for it is not egalitarian or respectful.
Later I started chatting with the protesters, one at a time, most couldn't even put their political beliefs into words. Others repeated propogand but had no knowledge of the substance behind it. I asked one where Carl Marx was born and she said "Russia" I asked if she was sure and she said "Yep".
Am I being elitist in expecting people to be more knowledgeable and articulate?
I feel there's nothing I can do to help the local movement raise it's level of discourse. They seem to clicky and angry to be reasoned with. I personally avoid using profanity all together in public, I'm soft spoken, polite almost to a fault, and too quick to point out logical fallacies (politely of course, but people still just seem to hate me for it). Oddly I'm a great public speaker, the anxiety I feel in personal interactions disappears when I'm behind a podium and have a prepared statement.
I'm half tempted to go to the bus Plaza and deliver a speech directly to the citizens, bypassing the Occupy movement all together.

[Commissar Rykov]

Are you saying the Liberals equal the Revolutionary Left? Because that is who is making up the majority of these protests. It is amusing that you once again clump the Liberals with the Revolutionary Left while using it as a critique against us. I have no control over the Liberals nor does anyone else on this site nor are these movements Revolutionary Leftist by any stretch. Amusing as your whole post is I fail to see the problem other than you are surprised Liberals don't know about the Revolutionary Left or follow their own misguided rules.

[Art Vandelay]

Are you sure you know how to spell Marx's first name? Like really sure?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

I understand how you feel. Generally I would regard as comrades te people in my organization or revolutionary socialists in general. Most of the people at the Occupy demos are not revolutionaries, at least not yet. the vast majority of the American people are still caught in illusions andconfusion. The goal of a socialist should be to educate and to gradually develop a socialist consciousness, a way of thinking among people. This can be done without cramming something down people's throats. Socialism comes from people's lived experience, what peoole already know deep inside, only they are afraid to think it.

I have noticed at Occupy demos I've been to most people are liberals or are anti-political anti-authoritarians. I might even say most people are what I could call "anarcho-Democrats", they mistrust politicians and the corporate elite, are very anti-authoritarian, but don't see an alternative to the Dems.

In public speaking you could gradually bring out socialist demands. When someone says, "we need to bring back Glass-Streagall" (banking regulation) you might say, "the problem goes deeper than that, we need to put the banks under public ownership!". I said this in a speech and it got wild applause in a mostly liberal crowd.

Point out how capitalism is in crisis. Get people to think of capitalism as a specific system. Think of socialist demands which might resonate. Examples might be

single payer healthcare
forgiveness of student loans
end the wars
banks under public ownership

You can't convert people right away but you can gradually expand their thinking.

I'm shy myself, I've found making political speeches is incredibly exhilarating.

[Commissar Rykov]

I understand how you feel. Generally I would regard as comrades te people in my organization or revolutionary socialists in general. Most of the people at the Occupy demos are not revolutionaries, at least not yet. the vast majority of the American people are still caught in illusions andconfusion. The goal of a socialist should be to educate and to gradually develop a socialist consciousness, a way of thinking among people. This can be done without cramming something down people's throats. Socialism comes from people's lived experience, what peoole already know deep inside, only they are afraid to think it.

I have noticed at Occupy demos I've been to most people are liberals or are anti-political anti-authoritarians. I might even say most people are what I could call "anarcho-Democrats", they mistrust politicians and the corporate elite, are very anti-authoritarian, but don't see an alternative to the Dems.

In public speaking you could gradually bring out socialist demands. When someone says, "we need to bring back Glass-Streagall" (banking regulation) you might say, "the problem goes deeper than that, we need to put the banks under public ownership!". I said this in a speech and it got wild applause in a mostly liberal crowd.

Point out how capitalism is in crisis. Get people to think of capitalism as a specific system. Think of socialist demands which might resonate. Examples might be

single payer healthcare
forgiveness of student loans
end the wars
banks under public ownership

You can't convert people right away but you can gradually expand their thinking.

I'm shy myself, I've found making political speeches is incredibly exhilarating.
Indeed, I have been in contact with the Occupy Salt Lake City Leadership and while they are rather liberal I see some strains of Revolutionary thought that I use to expound on while talking to them. Of course if I had my way they would run out all the Ron Paul idiots but alas I can't GULAG anyone.:p

I have seen one member of the General Assembly lay down some fiery rhetoric about Capitalism is no longer needed and we need to move forward but other than that I find the leadership is rather Liberal and careful about not upending the apple cart especially after just the first day they had Bankers come out with a statement demanding the protest be disbanded while Senator Orrin Hatch demanded arrests and police violence. Gotta love Utah.

[ericksolvi]

Are you sure you know how to spell Marx's first name? Like really sure?

You're right. I'm sorry. I was thinking about the next line I was going to write and failed to pay attention to what I was doing in the present.

[ericksolvi]

I understand how you feel. Generally I would regard as comrades te people in my organization or revolutionary socialists in general. Most of the people at the Occupy demos are not revolutionaries, at least not yet. the vast majority of the American people are still caught in illusions andconfusion. The goal of a socialist should be to educate and to gradually develop a socialist consciousness, a way of thinking among people. This can be done without cramming something down people's throats. Socialism comes from people's lived experience, what peoole already know deep inside, only they are afraid to think it.

I have noticed at Occupy demos I've been to most people are liberals or are anti-political anti-authoritarians. I might even say most people are what I could call "anarcho-Democrats", they mistrust politicians and the corporate elite, are very anti-authoritarian, but don't see an alternative to the Dems.

In public speaking you could gradually bring out socialist demands. When someone says, "we need to bring back Glass-Streagall" (banking regulation) you might say, "the problem goes deeper than that, we need to put the banks under public ownership!". I said this in a speech and it got wild applause in a mostly liberal crowd.

Point out how capitalism is in crisis. Get people to think of capitalism as a specific system. Think of socialist demands which might resonate. Examples might be

single payer healthcare
forgiveness of student loans
end the wars
banks under public ownership

You can't convert people right away but you can gradually expand their thinking.

I'm shy myself, I've found making political speeches is incredibly exhilarating.

Those are good talking point. Thank you. Easy for people to understand, not so out there that it will turn people off.

[ericksolvi]

I just discovered the ignore list. Never have to see another message from Commissar Self righteous again.
The guy has been nothing but abrasive.

[Art Vandelay]

You're right. I'm sorry. I was thinking about the next line I was going to write and failed to pay attention to what I was doing in the present.

No worries I was just being an ass and poking some fun at you cause you were questioning that girl on where Marx was born. As to the actual topic of the thread I think that these occupy movements need to be utilized by the left. Are these people revolutionaries? For the most of them the answer is no but they are clearly more progressive than most people who cannot even bother to get up off the couch and will be more likely to be receptive of our ideas. There was a very good leaflet posted on the raan forums that a raanista was planning on handing out at occupy chicago if anyone is interested. It articulately said what these liberals need to be hearing at a time like this.

[ericksolvi]

No worries I was just being an ass and poking some fun at you cause you were questioning that girl on where Marx was born. As to the actual topic of the thread I think that these occupy movements need to be utilized by the left. Are these people revolutionaries? For the most of them the answer is no but they are clearly more progressive than most people who cannot even bother to get up off the couch and will be more likely to be receptive of our ideas. There was a very good leaflet posted on the raan forums that a raanista was planning on handing out at occupy chicago if anyone is interested. It articulately said what these liberals need to be hearing at a time like this.

The question of weather or not these protesters fall into the revolutionary group reminds me of an old professor of mine. He was trying to explain why different human evolutionary models are so radically different. He said "Some people like to make distinctions based on small differences while others like to ignore differences and group thing together" I'm a grouper (Happy Commissar?), and a reductionist.
These protesters may not share my exact political beliefs, much the way not all of us here share the same philosophy, but you are all my comrades. Interpersonal conflicts, varying beliefs, none of this matters to me. We and the protesters (for the most part) are on the same end of the political spectrum. We should forget our differences and try to form a united front.
I'm doing my best here in my hometown, with little luck. We should all reach out to one another. If any of you guys find a good way to introduce the protesters to the ideological left, I would be thrilled to hear about it.

[Commissar Rykov]

I just discovered the ignore list. Never have to see another message from Commissar Self righteous again.
The guy has been nothing but abrasive.
Oh no I am so wounded that someone who can't tell the difference between the Revolutionary Left and Liberals put me on ignore! Oh what will I ever do. Dipshit.

[ericksolvi]

I see Commissar Rykov has added his opinion once more (I can see that he made a comment but can't see what it is, thank you ignore). You'd think he could respect that I don't care to hear what he has to say.
However because of my terribly dim witted and ignorant Inclusive way of looking at the world I still consider him a comrades. Since I only see political theory as a continuum ranging from far left to far right, I still think of the Commissar and I as being on the same side