Freedom of speech

[Arm Cathartha na hÉireann]

Sorry if this seems a stupid question. How would a socialist define freedom of speech? Is it the same as the current definition of simply speaking without censorship or libel etc. Also in a revolutionary/transitional period from capitalism to socialism should freedom of speech be suppressed to prevent capitalistic and fascist ideas from gaining any support and preventing the development of communism?

[The Idler]

NoKcziBrWw0

Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're really in favor of free speech, then you're in favor of freedom of speech for precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favor of free speech.

[DeBon]

Free speech is being able to say what you want. Speech being the communication between one party or individual to another. It can not be limited, for no one has the rite to limit your thoughts or what you should say, unless you are threatening or spreading ideas to harm another individual for no justified reason. Sadly, "what is justified?" is hard to define, but shouldn't be left up to some government entity to decide.

But to answer your question more directly, opposing ideas should not be suppressed. You especially shouldn't strip someone of their rights just because you want your way. Education is the key. Educate people, changing their values, reforming (sadly, yes, I say we reform, as much as I hate the word) education. You can't prevent ideas, they are bound to happen. But just because a group of like-minded individuals have some radical facist idea does not mean they're going to lead the Corporation's Revolution.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

This is something that authoritarian and civil libertarian socialists would strongly disagree on, I suppose. I personally believe in freedom of speech, but not freedom of slander.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I believe in freedom of speech,just not hate speech.

The definition would remain the same I think.

[Decolonize The Left]

Freedom of speech, like all freedom/liberty, does not exist.

Freedom of speech is really just a privilege granted to you by the government, a privilege which they can and will revoke at any time. See below.

There exist both positive and negative freedoms/liberties:
Positive freedom - freedom to do something
Negative freedom - freedom from something
Freedom of speech is a positive freedom, but it is totally reliant upon an authority to enforce its existence. For example, if you stand on the corner with your sign and I come up with a bat and say stop talking, I have effectively stopped your 'freedom to speak.' But then the police come and put me in jail, thereby ensuring your freedom to speech while revoking mine at the exact same time.

So you see that freedoms/liberties are relative values which exist in a liberal capitalist context. 'Freedoms' are granted to the public by the government in order to help them think that they have a sense of individual value - this value is of course usurped from them routinely through the capitalist economic system. BUT without the 'freedoms' the people wouldn't tolerate the slavery of the capitalist system. It is imperative that the philosophical/political freedoms exist to help neutralize the negative affects of the economic servitude of the working class.

- August

[DeBon]

Freedom of speech, like all freedom/liberty, does not exist.

Freedom of speech is really just a privilege granted to you by the government, a privilege which they can and will revoke at any time. See below.

There exist both positive and negative freedoms/liberties:
Positive freedom - freedom to do something
Negative freedom - freedom from something
Freedom of speech is a positive freedom, but it is totally reliant upon an authority to enforce its existence. For example, if you stand on the corner with your sign and I come up with a bat and say stop talking, I have effectively stopped your 'freedom to speak.' But then the police come and put me in jail, thereby ensuring your freedom to speech while revoking mine at the exact same time.

So you see that freedoms/liberties are relative values which exist in a liberal capitalist context. 'Freedoms' are granted to the public by the government in order to help them think that they have a sense of individual value - this value is of course usurped from them routinely through the capitalist economic system. BUT without the 'freedoms' the people wouldn't tolerate the slavery of the capitalist system. It is imperative that the philosophical/political freedoms exist to help neutralize the negative affects of the economic servitude of the working class.

- August

That's like saying when you're born, the government let's you breathe in their oxygen. And when someone takes your oxygen, they take theirs. You are born able to say what ever you please. Institutions drill into you that they are allowing you to speak freely, and protecting your freedom to do so. When that guy ran up to you with a baseball bat, he wasn't stripping you of your right to speak, he was punishing you for your thoughts. And in turn, the police punished him for acting on his.

[Decolonize The Left]

That's like saying when you're born, the government let's you breathe in their oxygen. And when someone takes your oxygen, they take theirs. You are born able to say what ever you please. Institutions drill into you that they are allowing you to speak freely, and protecting your freedom to do so. When that guy ran up to you with a baseball bat, he wasn't stripping you of your right to speak, he was punishing you for your thoughts. And in turn, the police punished him for acting on his.

Incorrect.

Oxygen is a molecule, 'freedom of speech' is an idea. Your analogy is faulty from the get-go.

As for your reply to my example, the guy with the bat isn't 'punishing me', why did you bring individual justice into the situation? The person was just telling me to shut up or they'd hit me with the bat. They are, in effect, forcing me to curtail my use of my right to free speech by violence.

- August

[NoOneIsIllegal]

A fascist can say whatever he wants, right before the bullet hits his skull :lol:

But really, in a society that has will have a drastic transformation in all aspects, I would consider mass education one of them. I don't think people would be running freely saying absolute idiocy like they do these days. I won't restrict anyone's right to saying something, because I think there will be a lot less stupidity and ignorance on certain subjects. (not to sound elitist, but concerning racism, sexism, etc. they should cease to exist)

[DeBon]

Incorrect.

Oxygen is a molecule, 'freedom of speech' is an idea. Your analogy is faulty from the get-go.

As for your reply to my example, the guy with the bat isn't 'punishing me', why did you bring individual justice into the situation? The person was just telling me to shut up or they'd hit me with the bat. They are, in effect, forcing me to curtail my use of my right to free speech by violence.

- August

You breathe naturally, you speak naturally. In a free society, the idea of free speech shouldn't be something you have to earn or fight for, it should be an entitlement. Just like breathing.

Yes, and they are wrong in thinking that because they are better armed, and possibly superior to you because they are armed, that they have the right to shut you up.

[Decolonize The Left]

You breathe naturally, you speak naturally.

No you don't. You breathe naturally, yes, but speech is a linguistic tool which is taught to you by other human beings.


In a free society, the idea of free speech shouldn't be something you have to earn or fight for, it should be an entitlement. Just like breathing.

You've already shot yourself in the foot. An entitlement must be supported by a power structure in order to exist - hence is not a universal rule, but a relative belief.


Yes, and they are wrong in thinking that because they are better armed, and possibly superior to you because they are armed, that they have the right to shut you up.

But they can shut me up, easily in fact. I don't want to get hit in the face with a bat... Their force trumps my 'right' every time.

- August

[tfb]

Let a thousand flowers bloom!

[mrld1630]

are you saying "violence" against another person is free speech...