Should activists be straightedge?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Obviously the US "war on drugs" is a war against poor people . It can and has been used as an arsenal in state repression of the left as well. In light of this should communist activists avoid illegal substances? This isn't a moral stance at all (I occaisionally smoke weed, I've done just about everything else at one time or another).

If after a severe economic crisis "shit gets real" as a strategical measure should the radical left avoid drugs? That's one more way the state can crush the left.

Of course about a third of the US population regularly smoke weed (according to what I've read), far more than the last wave of mass resistance in the 60s/70s so maybe the point is moot.

[Misanthrope]

Some can be productive on drugs some cannot. It would be silly to put emphasize on such a petty issue.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Nobody can tell me I can't smoke weed or drink alcohol.

Nobody.

[Magón]

No. But I don't think the Left would be, "Do drugs just because they're drugs," or "drink alcohol because it's alcohol." I occasionally partake in such substances, but it's not something I focus my life on, or think hinders my ability to protest the system in whoch I oppose. In fact, it makes me want to protest more for the legalization of the illegal substances, because then nobody would have to be some two faced liar, hiding away what they're doing (which I've realized more and more Americans seem to be doing, but it could just be me.)

If someone wants to do drugs, drink, etc. while protesting/fighting the system, then let them. Some people, are of course, unable like Wolves of Paris said, to be productive under the influence, but I'm sure their friends or whatever, could help focus their attention elsewhere when fighting/protesting. I do sometimes.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Well, its not a question of being productive and of course I would like a society in which people are free to use drugs. What I'm saying is it worth it to put oneself at risk of state repression at a time when the class struggle is heating up? I have friends who are leftists who are "boomers" and some of them say young leftists today should avoid drugs for self protection.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Some can be productive on drugs some cannot. It would be silly to put emphasize on such a petty issue. I think she means in the sense that a cops can bust you on drug charges.
Which sucks.

[The Jay]

I think that it's a good strategic move. That's why I stopped smoking.

[Magón]

Well, its not a question of being productive and of course I would like a society in which people are free to use drugs. What I'm saying is it worth it to put oneself at risk of state repression at a time when the class struggle is heating up? I have friends who are leftists who are "boomers" and some of them say young leftists today should avoid drugs for self protection.

I think the whole Occupy movement or whatever you want to call it, kind of answers this. These people at the protests are constantly under state repression by the police, and any other protest is (like for example the BART protests here in the Bay Area). Doing drugs is just another added risk that people can choose or not choose to take, and isn't necessarily the risk the police are looking for when they come into your tent, looking to beat you down.

[RED DAVE]

There are several issues here. One is problems with the cops, which means if you use drugs you might get busted. I would say when the shit is about to hit the fan for you politically, that's the time to get rid of your stash.

A second issue is getting addicted. It happens. Don't let it happen to you. Drugs, espcially alcohol, can sneak up behind you and bite you in the ass. Be careful. Rehab is not a good place for vacation and AA and NA are drags as social outlets. To which I might add, anyone who smokes cigarettes is self-destructive, masochistic and just plain dumb.

A third issue is left puritanism. We should strive to have as enjoyable a life as we can under capitalism. That doesn't mean being stupid or self-indulgent, but as an older comrade once told me about a million years ago, "Even a Bolshevik needs a catharsis ever once in awhile."

RED DAVE

[Geiseric]

I heard the american 60's-70's SWP did this thing where because of activists getting busted on drugs and being sent to jail, and other people with them being sent to jail for being where drugs were being used, they had a strict no drugs policy. just think of what would happened if the black panthers cracked down on drugs more in black communities.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Perhaps if you hold a prominent position in a leftist organization,or you are the only leftist in your conservative community and need to make a good impression, you should avoid illegal substances.Otherwise I wouldn't see the practical point.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Well, its not a question of being productive and of course I would like a society in which people are free to use drugs. What I'm saying is it worth it to put oneself at risk of state repression at a time when the class struggle is heating up? I have friends who are leftists who are "boomers" and some of them say young leftists today should avoid drugs for self protection.
Ah, I understand what you're saying now. To avoid drugs so you don't get popped with a drug charge, which would hinder other activities.

In that sense I'd say it's up to the person and what kind of risks they're willing to take. I smoke weed in the privacy of my home, at night, before I lie down to watch TV then go to sleep. I do not travel with it unless I've purchased it and I'm bringing it home. I refuse to drive stoned. I feel like I'm minimizing my risk.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Perhaps if you hold a prominent position in a leftist organization,or you are the only leftist in your conservative community and need to make a good impression, you should avoid illegal substances.Otherwise I wouldn't see the practical point. I've heard that protestors on their way to demonstrations are sometimes harassed by the police.
That's a nice time not to be high.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I've heard that protestors on their way to demonstrations are sometimes harassed by the police.
That's a nice time not to be high.

I never said anything about protests.I mean,if you are going out in public it is probably better not to be high.

[o well this is ok I guess]

I never said anything about protests.I mean,if you are going out in public it is probably better not to be high. I'm just saiyan, man.
Gotta stop two weeks before the protest. Shit might show up on a test.

[Sasha]

To paraphrase immortal technique:
A lifestyle choice should never be considerd a revolutionary act.

[thefinalmarch]

To paraphrase immortal technique:
A lifestyle choice should never be considerd a revolutionary act.
A "straightedge" lifestyle isn't being discussed here as a way to increase one's revolutionary cred or whatever, but rather, it is being discussed for its practical purposes.

[coda]

isn't pot being increasingly decriminalized in the states?

in NYC, just a couple weeks ago they passed a law that unless the weed is out in the open, you can not be charged.. which in NY under an ounce is just a violation. So, that means.. if you were searched and are found with weed in your possession, you can not be charged with a violation.

The decriminalization of pot is making major strides in the US.
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4516

of course, other drugs are a different story.

[Per Levy]

If after a severe economic crisis "shit gets real" as a strategical measure should the radical left avoid drugs?

maybe, but just because you life a drug free doesnt mean that you're straight edge. i ,personally, dislike straight edge, and i live drug/alcohol free.

[Savage]

lol no

[Искра]

I'll never understand drug users. Why don't you just eat rat poison? Especially if you get politicaly active and drugs & alchocol ruin/or affect on all you are doing, for example important meetings, or you get busted because of that crap, so your comrades are trying to help you, but they can't do much since it's because of that crap etc. Also, after a ville you get stupid and disfunctional.

[Quail]

I'll never understand drug users. Why don't you just eat rat poison? Especially if you get politicaly active and drugs & alchocol ruin/or affect on all you are doing, for example important meetings, or you get busted because of that crap, so your comrades are trying to help you, but they can't do much since it's because of that crap etc. Also, after a ville you get stupid and disfunctional.
-I don't ingest rat poison because as far as I know it doesn't have any pleasurable side effects.
-I keep my drug use to times which are appropriate and sensible, and don't affect my responsibilities.
-Yes, there is a risk of getting busted, but I don't think many casual users get their houses raided. I wouldn't be stupid enough to carry any illegal substances if I was expecting to get harassed by the police, either.
-Drug use only tends to make people dysfunctional if they're abusing a substance, i.e. using it unhealthily for the wrong reasons.

There is a time and a place for everything, and if drug use was causing lots of useful activists to get arrested, then tactically it would make sense for people not to use them too often. Likewise, if an organisation was full of addicts whose use was stopping them from being as effective as they could be then they should also see that as a problem and help each other to cut down. I don't think people should have to abstain completely, but there are times when it might not be appropriate to use drugs, so as long as people are aware of that then I don't see drugs use as much of an issue.

[eyeheartlenin]

To answer the comrade's question, yes, it not worth it to run the risk of getting busted for drugs, so activists should avoid them. This liberal Democratic administration has already repressed comrades of the FRSO, who worked on building solidarity with the Palestinian struggle (though that repression had nothing to do with drugs), and we should not make it easier for the Feds to continue to shut down the left.

The most serious people I have known in politics, like comrades of the old SWP, before it was destroyed as a political party, and the locally-famous Freddy B, were in favor of staying away from drugs, which still makes a lot of sense for political people, I think. And I would be willing to bet that a life without substance dependency is better, easier and cheaper, since, after all, to quote South Park, "Drugs are bad, m-kay?"

[coda]

it's a personal issue. like what you eat, wear, do in your spare time, sex position you like, drink coffee....

[Rss]

I'd love to see left getting rid of "lazy stoner" stereotype. Some (read: many) people just cannot function while under influence. It stops being a personal issue when it affects political work.

[Искра]

it's a personal issue. like what you eat, wear, do in your spare time, sex position you like, drink coffee....
of course it's a personal issue, but personal and political are not separated by a big wall. sometimes someones personal issues become problem of whole comunity or organisation. I have a lot of such experience with people who are week and can't control themselves and who cause trouble and do stupid shit.

fuckin' hippies.

so, I'm my oppinion there are no rooms for such crap in political work or during your "political part" of a day (I mean on a part of a day when people form your organisation should count on you etc.... I mean on certain situations etc.). "private part" is not my concern or anybodies.

btw. I heard from one comrade from Turkey that there are some maoist organisations there which forbid their members to drink, use drugs and have sex with members of organisation. :lol:

[citizen of industry]

Come as you are. Addiction is a problem, yes. But what leads to addiction? Genetic factors, that's part. Social factors, the bigger part. If a comrade is straight-edged, he or she will attend an event clean. If a comrade is not, he or she wont. In any case, they both attend. If a comrade is having problems with alcohol/drug addiction, clean comrades should try to help them out, that's it.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I'll never understand drug users. Why don't you just eat rat poison? Especially if you get politicaly active and drugs & alchocol ruin/or affect on all you are doing, for example important meetings, or you get busted because of that crap, so your comrades are trying to help you, but they can't do much since it's because of that crap etc. Also, after a ville you get stupid and disfunctional.
Weed does not cause ANY damage to your body if you eat it. If you smoke it, there's normal lung damage from inhaling smoke.

It does not cause brain damage. It does not make you stupid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan).

The stereotypical "permastoned" burnout is an active choice to act like that. I know a few people who were perfectly fine, then smoked weed a few times, and decided to adopt a "permastoned" burnout personality. It's really fucking annoying.

If someone is messed up in public it's a problem, but don't blame the drug; they need help if they can't restrain themselves long enough to be sober in public.

[Искра]

Have you ever met a guy who was on various drugs for at least 15 years? Have you ever talked to him? Guess not. I know quite a lot of people who are fucked up like that and yeah it makes you stupid.

People who are addicted to something they usually can't restrain themselves, right?

And regarding marihuana. It makes you paraoind and then you run from imaginary KKK figures in a Eastern European country.

Of course, theres difference between people who do drugs and who just try them, but in a political organisation you need to trust your comrades and manadge to really on them. How could you really on a burnout junkiee?

[Art Vandelay]

Have you ever met a guy who was on various drugs for at least 15 years? Have you ever talked to him? Guess not. I know quite a lot of people who are fucked up like that and yeah it makes you stupid.

People who are addicted to something they usually can't restrain themselves, right?

And regarding marihuana. It makes you paraoind and then you run from imaginary KKK figures in a Eastern European country.

Of course, theres difference between people who do drugs and who just try them, but in a political organisation you need to trust your comrades and manadge to really on them. How could you really on a burnout junkiee?

You clearly have no idea about weed. First of all paranoia is one side effect and not every one experiences it. Personally weed affects me less than most people. I still get high but the average person cannot tell unless they are my good friends. You know what does affect me though caffeine. Another drug that carries more addictive properties than marijuana and which frankly I can not start my mornings without. If either one of these two have affected my life negatively than its caffeine.

I also know people who have been doing lots of drugs for the last many years but I do not consider the small group of people I might have associated with in my life to be representative of all drug users, that would not make much sense now would it? The truth is there have been many sucessfull addicts and while drugs do have side affects they vary depending on the drug and the side effects linger for different periods of time.

Marijuana, just to use it as an example, does not actually kill brain cells as is commonly misinterpreted and the only expirement to conclude that it did was an extremely cruel expirement with monkeys in the seventies who were deprived of oxygen and then the doctor concluded that the loss od braincells was due to the pot not that they could not breath :rolleyes: He was subsequently fired but good to know his lies still take hold today. What marijuana actually does is cover your brain cells with THC which over time as it builds up slows down the communication with other brain cells. It primarily affects the short term memory loss and IS NOT PERMANENT.

There are drugs that have worse affects on the brain but lumping in all drugs into one category is stupid. I will also have you note that I am a habitual marijuana smoker, do well in school and have since high school (now in college), and have also succeeded at sports all while being a pot smoker. So no it has not made me lazy or forget my responsibilities and if I was ever in a political organization with you I am pretty certain you would never notice.

[Princess Luna]

Revolutions don't happen over night they almost always come after a very slow build up, so you can smoke a joint tonight without the worry you will be called into armed combat tommorow.

[The Idler]

Aren't there Black Panthers who specifically blame COINTELPRO's program to drugging large areas?

[human strike]

Of course activists should avoid drugs. How else will they maintain the superior intellect and theoretical knowledge necessary to lead the masses come the revolution?!

[Wanted Man]

Moved to Non-political.

I guess the point of this thread is to discuss the issue in a "political" context, so I wasn't sure where to move it. I think it fits best in this forum though.

[Agent Equality]

I think Pot smells funny that's why I don't smoke it

[Desperado]

What I'm saying is it worth it to put oneself at risk of state repression at a time when the class struggle is heating up?

If the state banned other enjoyable things, would you abstain from them to be "an activist"? Isn't the entire point of rebellion is that it's for what we want, as proles and people? Illegal drugs, though a pretty petty crime, is a small part of this defiance (against both law and conservative culture), not a deduction from it.*

Besides, when class struggle heats up (and you be class strugglin') the government has laws against us anyway, or they'll dispense other laws in ways that suit. What stops them from falsely accusing you of illegal drugs besides? The problem is less relevant then than it is everyday. Rosa Luxembourg wasn't shot for parking tickets.



And regarding marihuana. It makes you paraoind and then you run from imaginary KKK figures in a Eastern European country.


Please. And unless you are even more critical of alcohol, you're a hypocrite.

*Of course, assuming you find drugs enjoyable. But in most cases we can only let the individual decide that.

[graymouser]

Straightedge? No. Abstain from illegal drugs? Yes.

It is a security issue and some people are terribly naïve about it. You are already bringing the eye of the state onto yourself, and doing illegal drugs is giving them a reason to arrest you. In general when you're attracting the attention of the political police you should not give the everyday police reasons to arrest you; this should really be common sense but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be.

[Искра]

Please. And unless you are even more critical of alcohol, you're a hypocrite.
I'm critical to alcohol and that's why I don't use it. I'm what you people call a straight edge, even I would never called myself that, because my beliefes do not come into some stupid American punk subculture. (Actually I'm even more radical then any straight edge since I haven't even tried anything :tt2:)

Since I said that I'm what you refeer as a straight edge (even I eat meat), I have to stress that I do not care about anyones personal life. If you wanna drink - do it. If you wanna smoke marijuana - do it. If you wanna do smack - do it. If you wanna eat rat poison - do it. I don't give a fuck about your life, that should be your concern.

Still, I have problem with people who use certain stuff and they are members of rev. organisation, because they can not control themselves and there are times when you have to depend on them - and you just can't. I'm talking here from my personal experience and when I talking about "times" I'm talking about simple actions and not about "revolutionary warfare" (Jesus). I was pissed too many times by such people who were to fucked up to do simple stuff - like give a leaflet, make a graphitti, put a poster etc. If you are a part of an organisation you have responsibilites and duty and you must be clean to perform them, especially when you are doing something more serious and when people are depending on you.

Also, since this thread turned into "bad man who hates drugs" vs. "drugs are cool" stuff, I have to say that I hate drug dealers. They actually sell death to stupid kids who think that they'll never get hooked up. Yeah, I saw few of those in morning papers in a black square (RIP to all). When I was younger good friend of mine died because of that crap. Also, good friend of mine was in a jail for 6 years because she killed one drug dealer when she was 18. That is a reason why I don't buy this liberal-left propaganda that drugs are not bad and that they do not kill you or damage your brain. They do. Alcohol also. When you see what's left of the people you used to know... you realise all.

[Magón]

And regarding marihuana. It makes you paraoind and then you run from imaginary KKK figures in a Eastern European country.

Paranoia, is not something everyone gets from smoking weed. For some people, yes, but to many, no. I smoke weed, and have never been paranoid or imagined running from anyone/anything. For me, it's a totally different experience. And out of all the people I've ever know to smoke, or have smoked with (which is a shit load of people), I can say only a couple got paranoid, and only to a very small degree.


Since I said that I'm what you refeer as a straight edge (even I eat meat)

Straightedge just refers to people who don't drink or do drugs, it has nothing to do with being vegetarian or vegan.

[Искра]

Straightedge just refers to people who don't drink or do drugs, it has nothing to do with being vegetarian or vegan.
Tell that to Ray Cappo.

nFUqrzCZOuo


Youth Of Today's classic video for "No More", the track that put vegetarianism on the straight edge hardcore map. There's probably a few versions of this video up here, but I was thinking my version just might be slightly better quality. If not, here it is anyway.

On hardcore punk scene there's difference between straight edge from 80's and that from 90's. In 80's it was all about "don't drink, don't smoke, don't fuck", in other words it was against drugs, ciggarets, alchocol and casual sex, while 90's movement was more militant and pro-vegeterian/vegan. 90's movement is called Youth Crew. Youth Crew sucks anyway. Only good NYHC band were early Agnosic Front.

[Magón]

Tell that to Ray Cappo.

nFUqrzCZOuo



On hardcore punk scene there's difference between straight edge from 80's and that from 90's. In 80's it was all about "don't drink, don't smoke, don't fuck", in other words it was against drugs, ciggarets, alchocol and casual sex, while 90's movement was more militant and pro-vegeterian/vegan. 90's movement is called Youth Crew. Youth Crew sucks anyway. Only good NYHC band were early Agnosic Front.

Many still put their focus to drugs and alcohol, which is still what many (at least in my area of the world), choose to speak and argue about. There are plenty of Straightedge people who eat meat and eat a lot of it. Beging vegetarian and vegan are not something that "makes or breaks" someone being considered Straightedge like drugs or alcohol.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

I can see the point of myself not being belligerent if, say, the revolution were to occur or "shit got real," and I would need to have my wits about me. Generally speaking however if anyone were to tell me not to drink I would say, in the words of another famous drunk, Rooster Cogburn, the following:

"If you're looking to convert me baby sister then you'll end up with an empty sack."-Rooster Cogburn.

[Os Cangaceiros]

No. Sometimes the cops will try to exploit drug addicts in order to catch "bigger fish", though. That guy Jake Ferguson, who basically brought down the ELF, was a heroin addict, and investigators exploited this fact, i.e. we're gonna lock you up you junkie unless you snitch on your fellow vegan arsonists.

But marijuana? pffft. It'll either be decriminalized or barely a misdemeanor in most US states within the next decade or so, I pretty much guarantee it. The tide has turned on that issue. An organization telling it's members not to smoke weed because of law enforcement scrutiny will be the equivalent of telling them not to drive over the speed limit.

[Искра]

In Croatia in 2000's it was hip to be a straigh edge. Now there's only few people who follow that and most of the people who were sxe in 2000's are now junkiess or drunx. I used to call myself a sxe when I was 12-14, but later I stoped because it was just stupid. All those people used to be vegan and crap. It's all connected and in the sxe comunity you are on higher level if you are a vegan etc. There's really idiotic argumentation for being a vegan (meat is poison!!!)... But, whatever...

Straight edge is a subculture and it is a stupid cult. People follow these rules because they fell that they must to, while they should think with their heads and decided what do they fucking want. Point of straight edge is to belong to community and young people are just stupid so they'll do everything to belong somwhere. If they are in area where's hip to be a smelly crusty they'll sniff glue and do smack, but if they are in area where's hip to be straight edge nerd they'll be it.

I do appreciate idea of sxe which came up by Ian MacKay and Minor Threat, but I'm not a sxe, since being a sxe means belonging to hardcore punk scene and I'm to old for such crap. I like reggae, soul and dancing with the pretty girls :)

[Lenina Rosenweg]

By "straightedge" I didn't mean the specific subculture , which I've never been a part but I have nothing against, but rather staying away from illegal drugs so as to minimize the risk of being busted.

[Искра]

By "straightedge" I didn't mean the specific subculture , which I've never been a part but I have nothing against, but rather staying away from illegal drugs so as to minimize the risk of being busted.
I understand. That's why I said that I'm the one which you would name as a straight edge.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I'm critical to alcohol and that's why I don't use it. I'm what you people call a straight edge, even I would never called myself that, because my beliefes do not come into some stupid American punk subculture. (Actually I'm even more radical then any straight edge since I haven't even tried anything :tt2:)

Since I said that I'm what you refeer as a straight edge (even I eat meat), I have to stress that I do not care about anyones personal life. If you wanna drink - do it. If you wanna smoke marijuana - do it. If you wanna do smack - do it. If you wanna eat rat poison - do it. I don't give a fuck about your life, that should be your concern.

Still, I have problem with people who use certain stuff and they are members of rev. organisation, because they can not control themselves and there are times when you have to depend on them - and you just can't. I'm talking here from my personal experience and when I talking about "times" I'm talking about simple actions and not about "revolutionary warfare" (Jesus). I was pissed too many times by such people who were to fucked up to do simple stuff - like give a leaflet, make a graphitti, put a poster etc. If you are a part of an organisation you have responsibilites and duty and you must be clean to perform them, especially when you are doing something more serious and when people are depending on you.

Also, since this thread turned into "bad man who hates drugs" vs. "drugs are cool" stuff, I have to say that I hate drug dealers. They actually sell death to stupid kids who think that they'll never get hooked up. Yeah, I saw few of those in morning papers in a black square (RIP to all). When I was younger good friend of mine died because of that crap. Also, good friend of mine was in a jail for 6 years because she killed one drug dealer when she was 18. That is a reason why I don't buy this liberal-left propaganda that drugs are not bad and that they do not kill you or damage your brain. They do. Alcohol also. When you see what's left of the people you used to know... you realise all.
All of these are problems related to the behavior of people, not drugs.

Regardless of your denial, weed does NOT DAMAGE BRAIN CELLS. It's not liberal-left propaganda, it's a proven fact under several scientific studies.

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6812

[Quail]

The black and white thinking on this thread is actually ridiculous. There is a whole spectrum of drug use between completely abstaining and being a dysfunctional addict!

Besides, it's not just drugs which can make people unreliable. Addiction is a mental health problem along with things such as anxiety and depression. Both of the latter can also render people dysfunctional, but would you agree with barring people with those conditions from a revolutionary organisation?

[graymouser]

The black and white thinking on this thread is actually ridiculous. There is a whole spectrum of drug use between completely abstaining and being a dysfunctional addict!

Besides, it's not just drugs which can make people unreliable. Addiction is a mental health problem along with things such as anxiety and depression. Both of the latter can also render people dysfunctional, but would you agree with barring people with those conditions from a revolutionary organisation?
As a security question, a revolutionary organization has the right to ask that its members do not engage in illegal activity that is not under the group's direction. This is part of the group's right to defend itself, and is not a moral or ethical question. Illegal drugs are only one among a number of activities that could get members arrested, and arrests of activists for non-political reasons should be kept to an absolute minimum for fairly obvious reasons.

People who are addicted to illegal drugs are probably not at the point where they could be functional members of a revolutionary organization. If I were confronted with that kind of issue, I would have to see if a sympathizer status would be a better fit for that person. Similarly with severe mental problems, there are people who are generally not in a state where membership is a viable option.

[Искра]

^ 100% agree.

[Fopeos]

Drug use definitely makes it easier for the authorities to "neutralize" a revolutionary organization. That's how "the man" brought down the Black Panthers. Reasonable suspicion of drug use gives cops the "right" to enter your residence without a warrant. Once they're in, if you've got weapons, you're screwed. If you really want to be an enemy of the state, it may be to your benefit to abstain from certain behaviors. They're going to want to put you away, don't make it easy for them.

[Stand Your Ground]

In Croatia in 2000's it was hip to be a straigh edge. Now there's only few people who follow that and most of the people who were sxe in 2000's are now junkiess or drunx. I used to call myself a sxe when I was 12-14, but later I stoped because it was just stupid. All those people used to be vegan and crap. It's all connected and in the sxe comunity you are on higher level if you are a vegan etc. There's really idiotic argumentation for being a vegan (meat is poison!!!)... But, whatever...

Straight edge is a subculture and it is a stupid cult. People follow these rules because they fell that they must to, while they should think with their heads and decided what do they fucking want. Point of straight edge is to belong to community and young people are just stupid so they'll do everything to belong somwhere. If they are in area where's hip to be a smelly crusty they'll sniff glue and do smack, but if they are in area where's hip to be straight edge nerd they'll be it.

I do appreciate idea of sxe which came up by Ian MacKay and Minor Threat, but I'm not a sxe, since being a sxe means belonging to hardcore punk scene and I'm to old for such crap. I like reggae, soul and dancing with the pretty girls :)
Watch what you're saying there, edgers could argue that people who drink & do drugs are dumbasses who fall for that shit cause that's what the majority of what everyone else is doing. Straight edge is not a game of follow the leader, it's about making a personal choice about how you live your life. If you don't wanna be straight edge, fine, but don't bash other people for what they choose to do. It could go both ways so think before you speak.

[thriller]

Caffeine is a drug. Are activists really not going to need that extra rush to wake up (when they get to sleep) and get back to work? Striaght Edge, from what I understand, is NO substances. No asprin for a headache, no ciggarettes, no coffee. I think that would be hard to enforce, on a personal level.

[Искра]

Watch what you're saying there, edgers could argue that people who drink & do drugs are dumbasses who fall for that shit cause that's what the majority of what everyone else is doing. Straight edge is not a game of follow the leader, it's about making a personal choice about how you live your life. If you don't wanna be straight edge, fine, but don't bash other people for what they choose to do. It could go both ways so think before you speak.
Why do you think that I didn't think before I spoke? Straight edge is a subculutre and people follow shit because they have to to be in the "crew". Just like punx have mohawks. Edgers agrue that people drink and do drugs do be pard of a "gang" and that's true, but they don't see that they are doing the same. Half of sxe people are not sxe anymore the moment they "leave the scene".

This is a same reason why I don't like for example Red Skinheads. They are communist until they are part of a crew.

Belifes/politics don't go with a subculture. Those things should be sperated.

[Искра]

Caffeine is a drug. Are activists really not going to need that extra rush to wake up (when they get to sleep) and get back to work? Striaght Edge, from what I understand, is NO substances. No asprin for a headache, no ciggarettes, no coffee. I think that would be hard to enforce, on a personal level.
Well I don't take medications when I'm sick nor do I drink coffee. But my apstence from medications has a different cause and that is that I enjoy pain.

[Yuppie Grinder]

To paraphrase immortal technique:
A lifestyle choice should never be considerd a revolutionary act.
i don't understand that guys problem with vegetarians
seems silly

[Stand Your Ground]

Caffeine is a drug. Are activists really not going to need that extra rush to wake up (when they get to sleep) and get back to work? Striaght Edge, from what I understand, is NO substances. No asprin for a headache, no ciggarettes, no coffee. I think that would be hard to enforce, on a personal level.
I take aspirin and occassionally have a drink with caffeine in it, straight edge is what you want it to be, obviously it means no smoking, no drinking, no drugs, but anything after that is your personal choice.


Why do you think that I didn't think before I spoke? Straight edge is a subculutre and people follow shit because they have to to be in the "crew". Just like punx have mohawks. Edgers agrue that people drink and do drugs do be pard of a "gang" and that's true, but they don't see that they are doing the same. Half of sxe people are not sxe anymore the moment they "leave the scene".

This is a same reason why I don't like for example Red Skinheads. They are communist until they are part of a crew.

Belifes/politics don't go with a subculture. Those things should be sperated.
I'm sxe and I'm not in a crew, I've never even been to a hardcore show, I don't know any other sxe people in real life. I some what agree, some people only do shit cause they think it's cool or whatever, but not everyone is like that, you can't judge everyone by the actions of a few.

[Искра]

No, you can't look at the world from only your eyes. The fact that you don't fit in the "chategory" I was talking about dosen't make you a part of "mayority", but a part of a "minorty".

[thriller]

I take aspirin and occassionally have a drink with caffeine in it, straight edge is what you want it to be, obviously it means no smoking, no drinking, no drugs, but anything after that is your personal choice.


Do mind defining "drugs"? Aspirin was heroin when it first came out. Caffeine, from what I understand, is actually a drug. From the sxers that I have met, both those substances would be taboo. Guess I'm kind of confused as to what sxe means if you are allowed to choose the drugs you want to ingest, but refuse to use "drugs".

[black magick hustla]

my political "interventions" all involve industiral amounts of alcohol ask bcbm

[bcbm]

don't drag me into this, all activists should be of pure body and mind basically like monks

[Jose Gracchus]

dear god please no.

While we're at it, can we abolish 'activism'? Preferrably while smoking an old-fashioned Stalin pipe in between puffs from a vaporizer bag, while drinking beer?

[Nicolai]

Not while you're actually doing an operation no. On your private time however you could, although I don't advocate doing it either way.

"Choose your poison", eh?

[Stand Your Ground]

Do mind defining "drugs"? Aspirin was heroin when it first came out. Caffeine, from what I understand, is actually a drug. From the sxers that I have met, both those substances would be taboo. Guess I'm kind of confused as to what sxe means if you are allowed to choose the drugs you want to ingest, but refuse to use "drugs".
I define drugs as something that does or has the potential to disrupt your way of thinking rationally. Back when that hurricane came through MA, my brother had no clue what was going on, he had been in his room the entire day smoking weed. Luckily where we were we didn't have much problems with that, we thought we might have to evacuate at one point but luckily we never had to, but my brother was too busy smoking to even pack anything in case we had to leave. So my point is, is that I wanna be fully alert and focused for whatever happens in life. I just don't understand what people would do if someone they cared about was in some sort of trouble but they were too busy hiding in the closet smoking crack to pay attention. I also get severe migraines so I use medicine for that and will continue to do so, anyone who gets migraines knows what I'm talking about. I also hate to bring it up, but my girlfriends 6 year old sister was molested by her mom's boyfriend because her mom was too busy blacked out from alcohol so she wasn't aware what was going on upstairs. These are my reasons for living how I do.

[Crux]

After having visited mayday in copenhagen I can say this, I am very glad the alcohol culture for swedish demos tend to be very limited. As for activism in general, my experiences are mixed. I have missed maybe 3 demos on account of being too hungover to leave the bed. But conversely some of my best papersales have been while still drunk from the day before, when the hangover actually hit though it's pretty much downhill.

I think as activists we must be ready to priorotize. Unless you are highly functionable while under the influence, and the only drug I've encountered this with is pot, just don't do it in connection with political activity. I should mention that in sweden having drugs in your system too counts as possesion. Yeah I know.

Having been the only completly sober comrade when we were attacked by nazis when out postering at night, I say this too from experience.

[blackandyellow]

Should one be a proffesional activist at all?

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I define drugs as something that does or has the potential to disrupt your way of thinking rationally. Back when that hurricane came through MA, my brother had no clue what was going on, he had been in his room the entire day smoking weed. Luckily where we were we didn't have much problems with that, we thought we might have to evacuate at one point but luckily we never had to, but my brother was too busy smoking to even pack anything in case we had to leave. So my point is, is that I wanna be fully alert and focused for whatever happens in life. I just don't understand what people would do if someone they cared about was in some sort of trouble but they were too busy hiding in the closet smoking crack to pay attention. I also get severe migraines so I use medicine for that and will continue to do so, anyone who gets migraines knows what I'm talking about. I also hate to bring it up, but my girlfriends 6 year old sister was molested by her mom's boyfriend because her mom was too busy blacked out from alcohol so she wasn't aware what was going on upstairs. These are my reasons for living how I do.
That was your brother's fault for not organizing and packing his things because he was too busy smoking weed and not paying attention. I know if a hurricane landfall was imminent I would not be getting stoned. And I smoke weed often. That's a matter of self control. There is such a thing as responsible drug use. It's no different from someone being too busy playing video games all day to pack for a possible hurricane evacuation.

However, I'm not going to go into the whole alcohol and molestation thing. I'm sorry that happened to your girlfriends sister; that's a terrible event to have to live through and remember. Please tell me the sick fucker that was her mom's boyfriend boyfriend was prosecuted?

[Stand Your Ground]

That was your brother's fault for not organizing and packing his things because he was too busy smoking weed and not paying attention. I know if a hurricane landfall was imminent I would not be getting stoned. And I smoke weed often. That's a matter of self control. There is such a thing as responsible drug use. It's no different from someone being too busy playing video games all day to pack for a possible hurricane evacuation.

However, I'm not going to go into the whole alcohol and molestation thing. I'm sorry that happened to your girlfriends sister; that's a terrible event to have to live through and remember. Please tell me the sick fucker that was her mom's boyfriend boyfriend was prosecuted?
True, it was his fault, but he was never like that until he started smoking weed a couple months before that. I know for weed most people can be responsible on that, but it often leads to other drugs that can takeover someones life.

Not at first he wasn't, there apparently wasn't enough evidence to convict and the sister was too afraid to speak against him in court, so he got away, he's also had previous molestation charges against him dropped for the same reason, but a couple weeks ago my girlfriends mom was out walking with them and he was following them taking pictures, so she called the cops and they busted him, she had a restraining order against him so now he's locked up like 3 years after it happened.

[Agent Ducky]

@title: if they want to be. It's all down to individual decision =/

[PC LOAD LETTER]

True, it was his fault, but he was never like that until he started smoking weed a couple months before that. I know for weed most people can be responsible on that, but it often leads to other drugs that can takeover someones life.

Not at first he wasn't, there apparently wasn't enough evidence to convict and the sister was too afraid to speak against him in court, so he got away, he's also had previous molestation charges against him dropped for the same reason, but a couple weeks ago my girlfriends mom was out walking with them and he was following them taking pictures, so she called the cops and they busted him, she had a restraining order against him so now he's locked up like 3 years after it happened.
I'm glad you understand that it's not weed and that plenty of people can smoke weed and be functional. As far as the gateway drug theory, In my personal experience, my drug experimentation began with alcohol as a gateway and led to heavy ecstasy and opiate use. I didn't start smoking weed until after I had my run-ins with harder drugs, and I lost my desire for harder drugs when I started smoking weed. I mean, I'd tried weed a few times when I was much younger, before the harder drugs, but it was always unpleasant for me at the time.

The real problem is people who are susceptible to addiction. I never had a problem with addiction, I just began using harder drugs recreationally, and was easily able to stop using them after a while. People who are susceptible to addiction become the stereotypical "pot heads" who are stoned all the time, or who abandon responsibilities to get high. They would do this with other things as well. Like my video games example. I'm sure you've heard of the infamous World of Warcraft addiction.

The only real credit that can be lent to the "gateway drug" theory of pot is the fact that because it is illegal and you have to find a shady dealer, they often have other drugs. It's a lot easier for people to try other drugs if they're in around them on a regular basis, like going to see a dealer for weed on the weekends. If weed were legal and you could go to a trusted store to get it, like a liquor store for alcohol, people wouldn't be around (and enticed by) the harder drugs.

At least that sick fucker is in jail ... even if it's only for violation of a restraining order. It depresses me that girls and women who've been molested or raped have so much fear of testifying against the person ... it's only more evidence of the serious level of emotional trauma caused by these crimes. Absolutely sickening.

[Quail]

I also hate to bring it up, but my girlfriends 6 year old sister was molested by her mom's boyfriend because her mom was too busy blacked out from alcohol so she wasn't aware what was going on upstairs.
Obviously I don't know the particulars of this incident, but your girlfriend's sister was molested because her mum's boyfriend molested her. It could have happened at another time independently of her mother being blacked out from alcohol if he intended to molest her in the first place. The blame should always lie with the perpetrator of the abuse, not someone who failed to prevent it.

[Stand Your Ground]

Obviously I don't know the particulars of this incident, but your girlfriend's sister was molested because her mum's boyfriend molested her. It could have happened at another time independently of her mother being blacked out from alcohol if he intended to molest her in the first place. The blame should always lie with the perpetrator of the abuse, not someone who failed to prevent it.
I'm not trying to blame her mom, I'm just stating that the prevention of it happening was hindered by her alcohol abuse.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

Straight edge crap is fine and all but... don't touch my alcohol and/or weed.