what my beliefs are

[revamerica23]

what would you say my beliefs are ? im only in high school so im trying to figure things out . i believe america needs serious change barack obama isnt a bad president but i think our congress screws over america they will not work together i think we need to fix our system and get ride of the two party government . i believe no person should go without healthcare . that you shouldnt just inherit wealth. i mainly believe that we need to overthrow the power of congress i know it seems over the top but it needs to be done.

[Art Vandelay]

It kind of sounds like your a social democrat and therefor will most likely get restricted. Hope you enjoy your stay.

P.S. You will not find many people here who like Obama, more like these guys:
:engles::trotski::castro::che::marx:

If your interested in learning more about revolutionary left tendencies and are open to them many here will help you and you may not even get restricted.

[Nox]

To be honest you just sound like a Liberal.

Despite what you may have heard, being pro-healthcare doesn't make you a Socialist :)

[hatzel]

I think your beliefs are that America needs serious change. You probably don't think Barack Obama's bad president, but you do think Congress screws over America; they will not work together! I'd say you think Americans need to fix their system and get rid of the two party government. You probably believe no person should go without healthcare, and that one shouldn't just inherit wealth. Your main belief, however, is probably that the power of Congress needs to be overthrown. Yeah, I admit it might seem a bit over the top, but what you've said makes me feel it needs to be done.

Seriously.

You've told us (some of) your beliefs, so you don't need to ask us what they are. And anybody who seriously thinks they can identify your political tendency from these three pretty vague beliefs is talking out of their bumhole. I'd suggest you just hang around, discuss things and figure something out for yourself where you stand, because you're the only one who knows each and every one of your positions; trusting somebody else to match you up with some label would be utter ludicrous.

Welcome to the forums!

[TheGodlessUtopian]

As the others have said...anyways,welcome to the forum and don't be afraid to ask questions. :)

[Sir Comradical]

You know what, good for you. You're in high school and you've come to the realisation that there's something wrong with capitalism. Your leanings at present are social democratic but hey, we all have to start somewhere. I think the Learning section of the forum will be very good for you.

Welcome!

[Die Rote Fahne]

Ask any questions you want! I'll do my best to answer and so will everyone else.

[EvilRedGuy]

It kind of sounds like your a social democrat and therefor will most likely get restricted. Hope you enjoy your stay.

P.S. You will not find many people here who like Obama, more like these guys:
:engles::trotski::castro::che::marx:

If your interested in learning more about revolutionary left tendencies and are open to them many here will help you and you may not even get restricted.


Why would he get restricted?

Also, we don't "like" those people necessarily we just agree with their ideas.

[Zealot]

You seem like a person who realizes the system is fucked but you don't really know which way to go or how to get there apart from some vague suggestions you've made. We will radicalize you though, come to the dark side....!

[NewLeft]

There is nothing wrong with being a social democrat, I think that they're our allies, but I'm probably alone in that sentiment (on this site).. I started off as a right-libertarian in high school and I eventually became a leftist after reading Mises actually..

[Die Rote Fahne]

There is nothing wrong with being a social democrat, I think that they're our allies, but I'm probably alone in that sentiment (on this site).. I started off as a right-libertarian in high school and I eventually became a leftist after reading Mises actually..
Capitalists are not our allies.

[NewLeft]

Capitalists are not our allies.

I might not agree with their method, but if they were to push for things like single payer health care then I don't see why object. Single payer health care is better than a free market system. I am an apologist for reformists.

[tfb]

When the Democrats had both the House and the Senate, Obama still didn't do any of the glorious things people had been hoping for. Boehner clearly isn't the one who's keeping America from becoming a social democracy (which seems to be what you want).

You should consider that maybe Obama isn't on your side. I believe that he is on the side of the bourgeoisie, while you are on a different side: the side of the proletariat.

[Ocean Seal]

Guys don't bring up restriction just yet, instead tell him about our positions and try to understand where he's coming from.

So just as a question to the original poster, can you give us a more detailed explanation of your political preferences. Do you think that a President will be able to change what plagues America. Here, we think that our troubles are inherent to capitalism.

[Broletariat]

I might not agree with their method, but if they were to push for things like single payer health care then I don't see why object. Single payer health care is better than a free market system. I am an apologist for reformists.

The reason why you should object is because, things like pushing for single payer health care doesn't simply happen in a political vacuum. The only reason it wold happen is if people were up in arms demanding that sort of thing. That has nothing to do with the social-democrats, that has to do with the revolutionary proletariat demanding better treatment. The capitalists will give us nothing if we don't fight for it. Don't be fooled into falling for the good-cop bad-cop game that they play.

[Thirsty Crow]

I might not agree with their method, but if they were to push for things like single payer health care then I don't see why object. Single payer health care is better than a free market system. I am an apologist for reformists.
Though, bear in mind that reformism is an option for the betterment of the immediate conditions of the working class only when capital is accumulated, reproduced as expanded, at a sufficient rate (notice how the recent crisis has severly hampered the possibility of advancing reformism, in opposition to purely defensive fights), which also implies that socialdemocrats will be necessarily presented with a dillemma - to support the capitalist class (also, take heed of the role of socialdemocrat governments in imposing austerity nowadays) in its attack on the working class, or to support the working class in struggles that could lead to revolutionary situations. I don't think I have to emphasize just how sceptical I am of socdems turning out as corresponding to the latter.

Finally, it's not a matter of reform or revolution - it's a matter for advancing the interests of the working class, be they immediate economic and social interests, but always with clear and forceful expression of total committment to the prospects for the abolition of capital as a social relation, and of the ultimate necessity of this abolition.

[DeBon]

Mao Bird is not pleased with your Liberal tendencies..
But Mao Bird will still welcome you

[thriller]

My question to you is, why do you think Obama is a good president? Care to list any examples? I also have a question for you. If you feel Congress needs to be overthrown, but Obama is good, does that mean you support a President with no Congress? Seems kind of authoritarian to me. And welcome to revleft! (even tho this isn't an intro thread)

[Thirsty Crow]

My question to you is, why do you think Obama is a good president? Care to list any examples? I also have a question for you. If you feel Congress needs to be overthrown, but Obama is good, does that mean you support a President with no Congress? Seems kind of authoritarian to me. And welcome to revleft! (even tho this isn't an intro thread)
Yeah, I was interested in these issues as well when first reading OP. Though, it seems to me that s/he's saying that the two-party system should be dismantled, and not the Congress in itself.

[Art Vandelay]

Why would he get restricted?

Also, we don't "like" those people necessarily we just agree with their ideas.

Because social democrats get restricted. I was just giving him a friendly heads up as some of the people on the boards can be a little tough on newbies sometimes. I also do not feel the need to get baited into your semantics argument, why even bring that up?

[EvilRedGuy]

Because social democrats get restricted. I was just giving him a friendly heads up as some of the people on the boards can be a little tough on newbies sometimes. I also do not feel the need to get baited into your semantics argument, why even bring that up?


Are you threatening me? :confused:

[Sputnik_1]

Just realizing that something with this system is wrong is already a big step forward. You know, most of people are too busy watching newest soap opera or such, living their lives as they've been thought by branding philosophy that seems to know exactly who you wanna be. I'm from a religious family so me as well had to step by step learn things by myself, as the only advices i got was "pray, go to church, get a work, consume, get married, have children, die and hope you go to heaven". I've been lucky that I've always been curious and never stopped questioning things and met people who helped me to understand them better. I find this site very helpful as well, and i think so you will revamerica23

[Art Vandelay]

Are you threatening me? :confused:

Um no not sure how you could even possible misconstrue what I said like that... but I was talking about the little Trotsky and Marx icon things that I posted saying we like those people not Obama. You then felt the need to quote me and say we do not necessarily like them but their theories. Your comment was useless and irrelevant and had nothing to do with the original comment by the op. But yeah I was threatening you? What are you even talking about.

[The Idler]

Welcome, but if you want change, don't fall for "change you can believe in" again, be specific.

[Seresan]

Welcome!

I bet that starting off social democratic is more common than most here are willing to admit. It was only after reading a bit of Marx and falling in love with Trotsky that I really became a revolutionary.
Though... I'm odd in the fact that I support the efforts reformists while simultaniously disagreeing with their methods.

[Commissar Rykov]

It is pretty damn hard if not completely impossible to tell you anything about your political beliefs from a small kinda paragraph thingy. I could look into a crystal ball and tell you....and the answer is Canadian that will be $5 and yes that is in American.

[revamerica23]

can you help me learn more about marxism also my revolutionary tendencies are pretty strong well i think atleast

[Art Vandelay]

I can give you a quick brief rundown but I also have to say that nothing can substitute simply reading, but maybe I can point you in the right direction.

First I will say that you can probably break the revolutionary left into three broad categories each of which have different tendencies composing them:

Anarchist
Libertarian Socialist
Authoritarian Communist

The goal of the entire revolutionary left is a stateless classless society, however that is about all we agree on. The disputes mainly stem from a different opinion on how we reach this goal.

Anarchists generally believe that the state should be dismantled over night and a new system built up. They also tend to hold very highly individual liberty and see the state as unnecessary and altogether ineffective.

All anarchists are libertarian socialists but not all libertarian socialists are anarchists if that makes sense. Libertarian socialists would most likely agree with anarchists on a lot of things however they believe in the dictatorship of the proletariat (dotp), which can be described as a transition phase between capitalism post revolution and communism. The idea is that once communism is achieved the state will no longer be necessary and will eventually wither away.

Authoritarian communists also believe in the dotp but tend to be more supportive of the past and current socialist regimes in the past (ussr, cuba, east germany etc.). They will range from people who believe the USSR post revolution until the death of Stalin was building socialism correctly to those completely critical of the USSR. The key aspect differentiating them from anarchists and libertarian socialists is usually their belief in the vanguard party.

That gives you a brief little description of each, perhaps if one of them strikes you as one you think most matches up with your beliefs than you could maybe start there. A wikepedia search would easily be able to point you in the direction of the main theoretical contributors and their works. In my opinion the best place to start is the principles of communism by Engels, which can be found here:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

Feel free to ask any questions and I can do my best to help!

[Grenzer]

can you help me learn more about marxism also my revolutionary tendencies are pretty strong well i think atleast

I recommend you start by reading the communist manifesto. You can find it on marxists.org
You can find pretty much all of the essential texts there, I recommend reading Das Kapital afterwards if you're up to it. Read around the forums for a while, and you'll quickly find whether you're revolutionary material or not.

[thriller]

Welcome!

I bet that starting off social democratic is more common than most here are willing to admit. It was only after reading a bit of Marx and falling in love with Trotsky that I really became a revolutionary.
Though... I'm odd in the fact that I support the efforts reformists while simultaniously disagreeing with their methods.

I don't think that's odd. I support the reform of allowing gay marriage in the united states, even though I'm a revolutionary and would like to see an end of nations worldwide. I think it is important to stay informed on reform issues, so we know certain people/groups stand.

[Misanthrope]

Does anyone else think the immediate restriction of those who realize something is wrong with capitalism and also acknowledge their greenness is discouraging to the new posters?

Just stick the the learning section friend. You've made a huge step just by creating an account here, use your resources!