Joining the national guard.

[Metacomet]

Would doing so be so completely against being a leftist? I feel like my options are wearing thin for avenues to go in life. So I have been looking at potentially applying for O.C.S school. (I have a degree)

I mean I'd get pay............a great thing for the resume..........health insurance, and money for graduate school.

I know it's an Imperialist army, but the state national guard isn't theoretically as bad I don't think, their intent is to guard the state, and aid during natural (and man made) disasters.


All that being said, I'm not sure I'd even be able to make it. I don't do well with authority so would probably not make it through basic, but the idea is still there.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

You can still be deployed to fight imperialist wars and you would still be assisting the ruling class in enforcing their will.Most people would still look down on it I think.

[Metacomet]

You can still be deployed to fight imperialist wars and you would still be assisting the ruling class in enforcing their will.Most people would still look down on it I think.

Thanks for the candor. I'm looking for honest opinions.

[Le Socialiste]

The American military, regardless of branch, is in place to serve the interests and needs of the financial-political elite and the capitalist state. If you're prepared to accept that, then by all means.


their intent is to guard the state

Think about that for a minute. Guard against what, exactly? What will you be protecting the state from? I can't tell you what you should do, but I'd say given the current political climate yes, joining the National Guard would be going against revolutionary leftism. I understand that you're worried about the "thin avenues to go in life" but if there's anything (anything) else you can do - do that.

[Nox]

Unless you organise a military coup against your government, no.

[Tim Cornelis]

You'll get paid to keep the IWW down (so to speak).

[thesadmafioso]

Well, the US military is currently pretty desperate for bodies to throw overseas, so it's fairly possible that you could be deployed to a combat zone.

I would strongly advise against it for that reason, as I presume you don't want to end up fighting any wars of imperialism.

[Metacomet]

I have a lefty friend who is in the air national guard (but is proud of some of the work he did and the help he provided during some floods/tornado search and rescue) and can't wait to leave, I'll see what his opinion is.

[Le Socialiste]

Unless you organise a military coup against your government, no.

I highly doubt any possible military coup against the American government is going to do so on a tide of "long live the revolution" sentiment. The American military isn't exactly a haven for revolutionary leftism. :rolleyes:

Even then, I'd be deeply opposed to any national military using their power as the sole means of achieving revolution. Revolution comes about when all layers of the working-class come together to overthrow capitalism and the bourgeois state. This includes elements of the military, sure, but the revolution itself will not come or be brought about solely by the armed forces.

[Commissar Rykov]

National Guard Units are constantly deployed overseas I believe they continue to keep them in Unit Rotations for duty in Afghanistan.

[Nox]

I highly doubt any possible military coup against the American government is going to do so on a tide of "long live the revolution" sentiment. The American military isn't exactly a haven for revolutionary leftism. :rolleyes:



Yeah, that's why I said it lol

[Le Socialiste]

Yeah, that's why I said it lol

Oh, nevermind then. Once again, Revleft humor goes completely over my head. :blushing:

[ВАЛТЕР]

Look, a lot of ideals go out the window when you are desperate for a steady paycheck. However, I would STRONGLY advise against such a move. Simply because you can easily end up being deployed fighting for something you don't believe in, against an enemy who is ready to fanatically defend their land. Considering the way the world is heading, I can only see more conflict in the next 10 or so years, in my eyes it is not worth it. However, do as you feel is the best from your position.

[eyeheartlenin]

I joined the Navy and served for nearly four years, because, with a very low lottery number, my only realistic alternative (I thought) was taking a chance on being sent to Viet Nam as a rifle bearer via the draft, and my advice is DON'T DO IT! Don't put yourself in a position where you can easily be rotated to the Middle East and end up shooting someone else, and/or getting horribly injured yourself. It's a hell of a risk to take, just to have a job. This is super-power imperialism we are talking about, which chews up human beings relentlessly. Don't help Obama and the DOD continue to maraud in someone else's country. Don't line up to become one of those young faces we see on public television, when they show the week's casualties in the US' endless wars. Just saying ...

[The Douche]

I'm a 6 year national guard veteran. One of those years was spent in Iraq. The national guard is the army, contrary to what you might think. There is a reason the uniform says "US Army" on it. National guard units are part of the regular rotations in Iraq/Afghanistan. At multiple points in time there has been a majority of forces in theatre (like 60-70%) of national guard.


No. You should not join the army. Join job corps or something.

[Aleenik]

Please don't join the military. Even if you aren't deployed overseas, you would still be defending the bourgeois and their interest. How could any Anarchist or Communist justify that? I don't see any way it can be justified.

[Agnapostate]

Individual enlistment in the U.S. military has only a marginal effect on whatever conflict the armed forces may be involved in at the time.

Infantrymen are perceived as directly responsible for immoral killings, but they could not serve in that role without extensive support personnel ("POGs"), and the armed forces themselves could not function without taxpayer support, and most people here have payed taxes in some form, meaning that they have already provided a marginal contribution to U.S. imperialism themselves.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

My stepdad is in the National Guard, for a couple years he was patrolling the border. So yeah you might be doing some shit you really don't want to do.

[thefinalmarch]

their intent is to guard the state, and aid during natural (and man made) disasters.
Actually that's generally the role of the State Guard/State Defense Forces, but afaik, many state guards are also deployed overseas too.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

National Guard Units are constantly deployed overseas I believe they continue to keep them in Unit Rotations for duty in Afghanistan.

^This, National Guard units are (as stated above) constantly being deployed overseas and I know of someone just recently who is going to be deployed again really soon. As far as the military goes, I think the Coast Guard would be the only one you could possibly hope to justify currently as a leftist.

Also, something I have been looking into, you can get gov't benefits doing other jobs like TSA and other such things.

[ProletarianResurrection]

Individual enlistment in the U.S. military has only a marginal effect on whatever conflict the armed forces may be involved in at the time.

Infantrymen are perceived as directly responsible for immoral killings, but they could not serve in that role without extensive support personnel ("POGs"), and the armed forces themselves could not function without taxpayer support, and most people here have payed taxes in some form, meaning that they have already provided a marginal contribution to U.S. imperialism themselves.

Im far from a Peacenik however the fact is that engaging in serious violence even when you believe or are fully justified leaves scars, taking human life however scummy it may be brutalizes most people. Its something people should only go near unless they really have to. This is a Maoist speaking who very much believes in the necesscity of armed struggle.

[Agnapostate]

Im far from a Peacenik however the fact is that engaging in serious violence even when you believe or are fully justified leaves scars, taking human life however scummy it may be brutalizes most people. Its something people should only go near unless they really have to. This is a Maoist speaking who very much believes in the necesscity of armed struggle.

I agree. However, I also agree that this is a personal psychological issue that can affect any person in a combat situation that has killed another, or seen others killed, regardless of the morality of the overall cause. It also seems likely that a genuine and sincere belief in "the mission" would mitigate some of this PTSD and related emotional conditions, though.

[ProletarianResurrection]

I agree. However, I also agree that this is a personal psychological issue that can affect any person in a combat situation that has killed another, or seen others killed, regardless of the morality of the overall cause. It also seems likely that a genuine and sincere belief in "the mission" would mitigate some of this PTSD and related emotional conditions, though.

Actually the morality of the cause matters a hell of a lot psychologically.

The person asking the question doesnt believe in capitalism or imperialism, ending human life, scaring the shit out of people and all the other stuff involved with being an Imperialist soldier will definitely fuck him up some way or other. People also lose their faith in "the mission" in the flied. There are a hell of a lot of ex-soldiers now rotting in jails in the US and other Imperialist nations.

[Agnapostate]

Actually the morality of the cause matters a hell of a lot psychologically.

The person asking the question doesnt believe in capitalism or imperialism, ending human life, scaring the shit out of people and all the other stuff involved with being an Imperialist soldier will definitely fuck him up some way or other. People also lose their faith in "the mission" in the flied. There are a hell of a lot of ex-soldiers now rotting in jails in the US and other Imperialist nations.

Ending human life and scaring people are elements of all armed conflicts, I think. But as I said, I did agree with the idea that believing in the overall mission is an element of the psychological response that occurs later, though understanding the marginal role of individuals may also help put things in perspective.

[#FF0000]

just listen to cmoney.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

just listen to cmoney.

^This, he was in the military and I believe still in the National Guard, he would probably know more than anyone here about it all.



The person asking the question doesnt believe in capitalism or imperialism, ending human life, scaring the shit out of people and all the other stuff involved with being an Imperialist soldier will definitely fuck him up some way or other. People also lose their faith in "the mission" in the flied. There are a hell of a lot of ex-soldiers now rotting in jails in the US and other Imperialist nations.


When dealing with psychology and the psychology of soldiers whom have been in combat you can't speak generally and it would be best to view everything individually, case by case. I think a good book to read on the matter is On Killing by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman; the books is a really good read and offers insights into the psychological cost to kill in both war and society. I would also like to point out that each branch of the military offers jobs which aren't directly combat, not every person who joins the Army is going to be infantry and you can, to a degree pick what job you want. You can even pick desk jobs like administration and PR (lmfao @ that) so the point of marginal support is valid imho.

Again, I can understand the financial incentive to join, I have contemplated it myself (ironic and fucked up, I know) but as I said previously in the thread, I think the only branch which you could join and possibly justify it as a leftist would be Coast Guard as they deal (almost exclusively) with domestic issues such as sea rescue, maritime law enforcement, stopping ("illegal") immigration, drug smuggling and other such things, not directly fighting in imperialist wars.

With this being said, something I have been researching, for an easy, quick job with all those enticing benefits is gov't jobs like TSA and other such jobs. I'm pretty sure you get the same benefits or close enough to those in the military but again you're not aiding directly in imperialism.

[RedZezz]

The military under the capitalist state functions to protect the capitalist system, but I cannot demean workers for joining it. It does provide some economic security to the poor and disenfranchised. I suppose in the same fashion I cannot demean workers from buying at superstores for goods they can afford even though it supports their notorious anti-worker policies and piliges the planet.

Besides, soldiers have played a vital and historic role in revolutions throughout history. They formed their own soviets in Russia and more recently, many Egyptian soldiers defied the state and high-ranking officers to stand with the people.

So, if the National Guard is your best or only option you should join.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Have you looked into the Peace Corps? Terrible pay, if any, depending on the job, but it will look phenomenal on your resume.

[The Douche]

Just a note about the coast guard. They do get deployed as well, they do port security.

[Tifosi]

President - "Yo guys, there's a big hurricane down in New Orleans"

Some guy - "What should we do to help?"

President - "Send in the national guard I say"

Some guy - "Yea to give out food and water"

President - "No dumbass, to protect all them white owned shops from being looted by them poor people that are starving to death because they couldn't escape. Duh"

[The Douche]

Dudes in my unit got deployed to New Orleans after Katrina (it was before I enlisted), they got shot at.

Not really a point, but just kind of interesting.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

Just a note about the coast guard. They do get deployed as well, they do port security.

True but wouldn't that only be those whom signed up for the Maritime Law Enforcement (ME) or maybe Gunner's Mate (GM) rating?

[The Douche]

True but wouldn't that only be those whom signed up for the Maritime Law Enforcement (ME) or maybe Gunner's Mate (GM) rating?

I would imagine they run the whole port security operation, which means also all those support ratings to do the behind the scene's work.