By when do you expect the USA to collapse?

[Dogs On Acid]

Unpayable debt, currency devaluation, increasing path to oil scarcity.

And much, much more.

So when's the party gonna be?

[Smyg]

So when's the party gonna be?

Don'tcha know, in America you can always find a party, and in Soviet Russia... wait, it isn't Soviet anymore. Dammit, that's another good joke ruined by reality...

I don't expect it to 'collapse' any time soon, just experience a more mild downfall. That, however, seems soon, given that the US empire has been in steady decline for decades, and the state of things seem to be degrading quicker than usual.

[Dogs On Acid]

Don'tcha know, in America you can always find a party, and in Soviet Russia... wait, it isn't Soviet anymore. Dammit, that's another good joke ruined by reality...

I don't expect it to 'collapse' any time soon, just experience a more mild downfall. That, however, seems soon, given that the US empire has been in steady decline for decades, and the state of things seem to be degrading quicker than usual.

Capitalist economy cannot sustain itself for much longer without lowering the living conditions of it's population.

It's first obstacle is lack of natural resources.

Sure there are other alternative energy sources to oil, but they are either:

-Expensive
-Unprofitable
-Take up too much land to produce (hemp, corn and other vegetation that must be transformed into fuel), and hence unprofitable
-Only accessible to a small amount of the population

[Kitty_Paine]

Tomorrow?! I'll bring the beer!

But probably the next 10 years. Or hopefully I mean... hopefully...

And saying that, hopefully when everything falls apart it sparks a revolution. I take that back... It WILL spark a revolution, how could it not? The only question remains is how leftist will the revoltion be? It would be quite unfortunate to see a revolution stupidly reinstate the same system we had in place before. I would hope most people would be smarter then... :p

I just hope I live through the chaos to see a new socialist society spring to life. *fingures crossed*

[ВАЛТЕР]

When they start pulling back their troops, scale down their military, and start closing down their international bases, that's how you know the party is beginning to end.

[ВАЛТЕР]

As for a "revolution" in the US. I can in no way see this as being non-violent. The people in America are armed to the teeth and there are simply too many conflicting ideologies floating around. If it starts in a similar atmosphere as to the one there is now, shit will hit the fan.

[Kitty_Paine]

As for a "revolution" in the US. I can in no way see this as being non-violent. The people in America are armed to the teeth and there are simply too many conflicting ideologies floating around. If it starts in a similar atmosphere as to the one there is now, shit will hit the fan.

There's no way a revolution would get anywhere in the U.S. without the use of weapons. After all that's why we have weapons in the first place, to overthrow a tyrannical governement power. As far as the "Founding fathers" were concerned, it's our right and duty as citizens to grab our rifles and start a revolution if our government misbehaves. And I think "misbehaving" is quite the understatement when it comes to the U.S. government.

It needs to be put down like a rabid dog.

[Dogs On Acid]

As for a "revolution" in the US. I can in no way see this as being non-violent. The people in America are armed to the teeth and there are simply too many conflicting ideologies floating around. If it starts in a similar atmosphere as to the one there is now, shit will hit the fan.

What frightens me the most is a rise of Fascism.

[ВАЛТЕР]

There's no way a revolution would get anywhere in the U.S. without the use of weapons. After all that's why we have weapons in the first place, to overthrow a tyrannical governement power. As far as the "Founding fathers" were concerned, it's our right and duty as citizens to grab our rifles and start a revolution if our government misbehaves. And I think "misbehaving" is quite the understatement when it comes to the U.S. government.

It needs to be put down like a rabid dog.

Problem isn't it being violent, but I see it being violent in the wrong direction, just as easily as I can see it heading into the right (left) one. The rise of religious fundamentalist groups is especially scary.

[Kitty_Paine]

Problem isn't it being violent, but I see it being violent in the wrong direction, just as easily as I can see it heading into the right (left) one. The rise of religious fundamentalist groups is especially scary.

Unfortunately, you do make a point. The thought of a ultra conservative right wing fundamentalist group taking control would be very scary. But hopefully by that point their are a fair amount of far leftists, enough to at least effectively counter the conservatives. I'd like to think that most people will want a drastic change though, something far away from capitalism. But now that I talk about this, it just sounds like a civil war or something. Doesn't sound too unrealistic... :mellow:

[Comrade Funk]

What frightens me the most is a rise of Fascism.America would split if a fascist dictator came to power. Same with a communist. Well, imo at least. I do think America is going to collapse. One more market crash to make this depression(yes, it's worse than a regular recession) worse and you got all the variables.

[Smyg]

Civil war in America? Now where have I heard that before...

[Kitty_Paine]

Civil war in America? Now where have I heard that before...

Really? I don't know about that...

You're probably just recalling a false memory... but let me know if you find anything.

[Rafiq]

I don't see a rise in Fascism. I don't see a worker's revolution anytime soon, either. What could be possible, though, is a collapse of the state and the emergence of a Stateless Capitalist economy, a shit hole. think of it as Fallout's environment minus the radiation.

[Kitty_Paine]

I don't see a rise in Fascism. I don't see a worker's revolution anytime soon, either. What could be possible, though, is a collapse of the state and the emergence of a Stateless Capitalist economy, a shit hole. think of it as Fallout's environment minus the radiation.

I don't know, I wouldn't rule out Fascism all together. In this new stateless capitalist economy wouldn't their be a power vacuum in which a Fascists could gain control? I would consider it a relevant danger in that kind of sciety...

I don't know, maybe we would be smart enough to prevent something like that from happening. But when people are desperate, hungry and tired... they will do anything if someone promises them food and shelter. Sounds like a way a Fascist would slip in...

But maybe I'm wrong, I just never doubt someone's greed...

[Dogs On Acid]

I don't see a rise in Fascism. I don't see a worker's revolution anytime soon, either. What could be possible, though, is a collapse of the state and the emergence of a Stateless Capitalist economy, a shit hole. think of it as Fallout's environment minus the radiation.

Well, seeing Fascism as a Petit-Bourgeois Capitalist ideology, I think it could very well develop in the US

[OHumanista]

Perhaps not traditional fascism but Tea Partyism :D or a similar thinking, probably mixing religion. (like Dominionism)
In any case I think the next few years will answer our questions, shit is hitting the fan. The question is just how much shit is yet to come.

[Kitty_Paine]

Perhaps not traditional fascism but Tea Partyism :D or a similar thinking, probably mixing religion. (like Dominionism)
In any case I think the next few years will answer our questions, shit is hitting the fan. The question is just how much shit is yet to come.

I don't know, the shit storm still isn't big enough for my tastes yet and I hope it just doesn't fizzle out. Ideally the level of shit would get so high congress would drown in it...

If you ask me all religious "-ism"s need to be rid of. It's just another way to find a reason to hate someone else and to divide people.

God forbid any "Tea party" or conservative religious types came to power... I think I just threw up in my mouth a little thinking about it :p

[piet11111]

There are not enough petite-bourgeois left to function as a powerbase for facism.

Fact is capitalism has eroded all its traditional supports away by proletarianizing the entire population.

[Rafiq]

Well, seeing Fascism as a Petit-Bourgeois Capitalist ideology, I think it could very well develop in the US



It depends. The Fascism of the 20th century is gone for good. However a new, more obscure and bizzare form of Fascism could very well come into place. I would look at the Ghettos for a quick glance at the future, at this pace.

[CommieTroll]

What frightens me the most is a rise of Fascism.

It's a dangerous possibility, especially in hard Social and Economic times like these. Sadly hard economic times can push misguided people to the far right.
As Lenin said, ''Fascism is Capitalism gone wrong''

[ClearlyChrist]

When I Would Like The United States To Collapse, And When It Actually Might, Are Two Very Different Things.

[Die Rote Fahne]

The sad part is that there isn't a united workers movement in the USA. No party, they are all split.

[Thirsty Crow]

I don't see a rise in Fascism. I don't see a worker's revolution anytime soon, either. What could be possible, though, is a collapse of the state and the emergence of a Stateless Capitalist economy, a shit hole. think of it as Fallout's environment minus the radiation.
I really think people tend to overestimate the real support from the capitalist class for this kind of politics ("stateless capitalism"). In other words, I think that the ruling class is perfectly aware of the necessity of one form of the state or another. I don't think capital accumulation is conceivable without the existence of the state and the interstate world system.

So, I can definitely see a potential for the rise of fascism which would "complement" the rise in working class militancy.


The sad part is that there isn't a united workers movement in the USA. No party, they are all split.
I don't think you can judge the state of the labour movement by the state of self-professed revolutionary parties. In other words, the existence of small sects is a symptom, and not the cause of the fragmented, disintegrated state of the broader labour movement.

[DeBon]

My mini theory on what will happen? America will slowly degrade more and more over the next 5 years, and with in that 5 years the Left will gain a lot of strength, and eventually become the dominant ideology. When the Left tried to set in the revolution, the traditionalists/conservatives are gonna make it as much of a pain in the ass as they can, and America will split into large provinces (similar to the same scale as Canada) and then the revolution will take full swing. :cool: And yes, there will be cake.

[thefinalmarch]

Unpayable debt, currency devaluation, increasing path to oil scarcity.

And much, much more.

So when's the party gonna be?
America's collapse isn't going to be a party at all. It will be devastating for hundreds of millions of workers and their families as a direct result. All welfare and healthcare, etc. will be gone. Labor rights would disappear overnight. Many more millions of Americans will become homeless and/or in poverty. The global economy would go apeshit and most of the world would feel the effects.

[thefinalmarch]

My mini theory on what will happen? America will slowly degrade more and more over the next 5 years, and with in that 5 years the Left will gain a lot of strength, and eventually become the dominant ideology. When the Left tried to set in the revolution, the traditionalists/conservatives are gonna make it as much of a pain in the ass as they can, and America will split into large provinces (similar to the same scale as Canada) and then the revolution will take full swing. :cool: And yes, there will be cake.
None of this will happen. America is more likely to become something of a rump state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rump_state) and much of its former territory would be de jure stateless, although you'd probably begin to see local militias (many of which currently exist) or private military companies protecting private property and maintaining the social order in these parts. I'd speculate that whatever happens, the federal government would be able to hold on to the northeast of the country as well as major ports on the Atlantic seaboard.

[tfb]

America won't collapse. It will be dismantled. :cool:

[Dogs On Acid]

America's collapse isn't going to be a party at all. It will be devastating for hundreds of millions of workers and their families as a direct result. All welfare and healthcare, etc. will be gone. Labor rights would disappear overnight. Many more millions of Americans will become homeless and/or in poverty. The global economy would go apeshit and most of the world would feel the effects.

It's always dark before light.

[Zukunftsmusik]

I don't see a rise in Fascism.

In fact the number of fascist/extreme right wing groups have increased from some 600 in 2000 to 1000+ in 2010. At least according to some right-wing-extremism-awareness group of some kind, SPLC (Southern poverty law center)

[Zukunftsmusik]

The sad part is that there isn't a united workers movement in the USA. No party, they are all split.

Name one place in the world where that isn't the case.

[aristos]

In my basement :tt2: (oh that doesn't sound right, does it :( )

[El Louton]

America won't collapse. It will be dismantled. :cool:

My thoughts exactly!

[kerryhall]

Problem isn't it being violent, but I see it being violent in the wrong direction, just as easily as I can see it heading into the right (left) one. The rise of religious fundamentalist groups is especially scary.

THIS is why I keep saying we need to be out on the street every day talking to strangers about our ideas. If we don't at least put an alternative out there, guess which way they will probably swing?

[Azraella]

THIS is why I keep saying we need to be out on the street every day talking to strangers about our ideas. If we don't at least put an alternative out there, guess which way they will probably swing?

Totally. This is a superb point. We must engage our communities. Make them the beneficiary of our talents, abilities, and charity and they may listen to our politics and attitude. I have been doing this for a long time, albeit not directly as an anarchist but as a member of the community. I want everyone in my area to know, and when they drive past my house if they think 'That's that person who's always talking about "libertarian socialism",' so much the better. :)

[The CPSU Chairman]

To those of you saying that the U.S is gonna turn out basically like Somalia, with parts of the country going "stateless" and falling under the control of militias: i'm curious, what do you base that on? That doesn't sound realistic at all to me. The only way I could see that happening in the U.S is in the aftermath of a nuclear war.

This is the most powerful regime in the history of the world and it's not just gonna vanish. I don't see the U.S "collapsing" like the USSR did. What I see is Capitalism hitting a real crisis soon and the U.S adopting an extreme far-right regime in order to save it, nothing more than that.

This reminds me of that nutty Russian professor a couple years ago predicting that the U.S is gonna split into different regions along racial lines, the South will go to Mexico (please, Mexico can't even control what it has), Texas will become independent (well, ok, I could see that one happening), the Pacific coast will go to China (lolwut), etc. People have some strange ideas when it comes to the future of the U.S. I personally don't see much changing, other than a more authoritarian, more right-wing, and more militaristic (yes) regime coming to power. Nothing will REALLY change until the working class finally revolts.