I was in Rome... or was I in a Fascist/Neo-Nazi town?

[R_P_A_S]

(I hope I'm not offending any Italians here, this is just an observation on A BAD aspect of this city.)

I had the chance to spend 4 days in Rome. I stayed with a friend just outside the city. 35 minutes on their train. I was excited to visit and ready to explore... until I got there!

My first welcome to the city was using the toilet at the airport restrooms. Covered with swastikas and those crosses over a circle symbols? I know they stand for white power and I'm sure something else, Fascism?

Soon as I get off the bus and try to gather my belongings at their MAIN transport station.. "Termini" I began to notice the amount of trash on the side walks and also the on going graffiti most of it of Nazi and Fascist nature. I seriously felt a bit afraid to start walking to find my friends place...

As I walked the streets I couldn't ignore how much trash there was... and how everything had some sort of vandalism writing on it. Not even cool graffiti/creative stuff.. just pure trash of "graffiti".

When the Metro arrived I was also surprised how trashed the thing was. There are maybe about 20% of the metro wagons that are brand new but the rest are just gone to shit with markings and other vandalism. Do they not give a fuck? Also SO MANY POLICE! all kinds of different color uniforms.. how many types of cops do you need?

A couple of times I found my self on the metro alone with all this Nazi and Fascist graffiti and I did feel a bit unsure.. I was fearing that on the next stop some of these punks will get on the Metro and I'd be alone with them.

Have any of you ever been to Rome? Why is there so much right wing youth? I saw just a couple Antifa markings. In comparison to other major cities that I visited this where I saw the most Nazi/Fascist graffiti.

what are your thoughts?

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I live in a small town so I wouldn't know but from what I have heard it sounds like a normal city anywhere on the planet to me.

[aristos]

Off-topic:

I wish Rome still looked the way it did during the Baroque period. Supposedly Rome in ACII: Brotherhood was modelled after it.
I wanted to go there for a trip, then looked at photographs on the web. Was severely disappointed.

[Smyg]

I was in Rome about three years ago. Interesting, albeit horribly expensive by my standards, experience.

I've never seen a city so covered in bad graffiti before. And yes, a lot of it was fascist. I honestly don't know much about the current state of Italian fascism, but I'd say the high amount is more a sign that they're very dedicated to looking larger than they are. In my moderately sized and awfully Swedish hometown, there's always stickers from four, five Neo-Nazi and extreme right groups all over the place. Why? Because there's this one guy, literally one, who orders hundreds from each group and spends hours and hours going around putting them up to make it seem like the city is some kind of Nazi haven.

[R_P_A_S]

I had the chance to travel a lot.. well at lot for my standard of living. Rome compared to other European cities I had the chance to visit: (Paris, Reims, Barcelona, Valencia, Brussels, Amsterdam, London, Frankfurt, Helsinki and Tallinn)

Hast the most Fascist graffiti and dirtiest streets. I don't even think the Mexico City Metro is half as dirty as the Roman. I guess I had a bit of culture shock.

Maybe, like some of you said.. Fascism is not as big but they make it seem by over doing their "bad" graffiti.

[Triple A]

I've been to Rome and I didnt feel that way.
I mean termini is dirty and full of trash but other spots on the city were cleaner.
I saw a lot of fascist party stickers but also anarchist and communist graffiti well maybe cause I am from a dirty city myself I didnt felt so shocked.

[R_P_A_S]

I've been to Rome and I didnt feel that way.
I mean termini is dirty and full of trash but other spots on the city were cleaner.
I saw a lot of fascist party stickers but also anarchist and communist graffiti well maybe cause I am from a dirty city myself I didnt felt so shocked.

I come from Mexico City and Los Angeles. So nothing really shocks me as far as "dirty goes". I guess I was not expecting Rome, a european city, prestigious and a heavy tourist destination to be at such low standards as far as dirtiness.

I saw SOME anarchist stuff. BUT compared to the fascist stuff it was outnumber like 2 to 10. Again this is my observation in comparison to other cities I've visited. I would also like to say that im just talking about the bad things here. Rome does have its beauty and that can be an other topic.

[Triple A]

I come from Mexico City and Los Angeles. So nothing really shocks me as far as "dirty goes". I guess I was not expecting Rome, a european city, prestigious and a heavy tourist destination to be at such low standards as far as dirtiness.

I saw SOME anarchist stuff. BUT compared to the fascist stuff it was outnumber like 2 to 10. Again this is my observation in comparison to other cities I've visited. I would also like to say that im just talking about the bad things here. Rome does have its beauty and that can be an other topic.

Well I slept in termini and I saw a lot of arabs almost 0 fascist propaganda.
Only some stickers inviting to a party fundraising.


The subway tough was the worst I ever been to. Small, overcorweded, slow.As well as the bus services always late and a lot of screamers.
Thinking I complain of the ones I have to catch.

[R_P_A_S]

Termini.. is a pick pocketers heaven lols

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I was in Napoli nine years ago and my experience were similar. There was a lot of bad graffiti everywhere, and rubbish on the streets, and the most disturbing of all was the number of homeless people and other people that roamed the streets reflecting serious social problems. There were prostitutes on every street corner at night with greasy looking panderers shoving them around and seedy businessmen coming as johns', and there was the constant dreadful honking of the traffic that made it a struggle to sleep at all; and in the traffic during day there were people running betwixt the rushing traffic with buckets and wipers, cleaning cars as they passed hoping to get some change thrown at them.

On Corso Garibaldi there were beggars, countless, and all over the inner city dilapidated buildings that looked to be half-way to crumbling. On the Circumvesuviana commuter railway there were child beggars going around, and they would stop and hold their hands before other passengers.
Such things occur elsewhere, but there was something so opaque to it; elsewhere in most of Europe such terrible things to see would be fewer, but in Italy it seemed common place, and the crowds in the trams that always seemed to crash into badly parked cars that lined some streets seemed to pay no attention to the dread around them.

And the situation in Napoli is probably worse than in a lot of Italy in terms of social problems what with the enormous unemployment that has prevailed in the last 40 years. I remember seeing some Communist Party posters somewhere, but as far as I understand the Italian CP in Napoli and Campania in general have been complicit/in charge of (I think they've been in charge of Napoli a number of times with a majority or something even?) in allowing this sort of crimes to go unpunished which has fostered also the rise of organised crime in the area, much like what other social-democratic parties have done.

Though I can't remember seeing any fascist symbols in Napoli (I didn't really know how they looked at the time apart from swastikas). As far as I understand the situation with fascists is worse in parts of Rome and Northern Italy than south. There seemed to be a fair few communist propaganda pieces scribbled on walls here and there which was at least somewhat pleasant to see in the sea of social injustice and decay.

[Arlekino]

I have been few years ago in Sorento. We passed Train Station from Naples I so few nazi grafiti and I think RAPAS right there is worry about Italy, swinging to the right some kind of different police something like Angels I can't remember how they calling but they are against immigration.

[ВАЛТЕР]

That is strange, I always thought of Italy as having a solid leftist movement. I think it's pretty childlike to go about spraypainting the walls of a city. Unless it's to scribble out fascist propaganda.

There is this graffiti all over Serbian cities. Here in Novi Sad, I notice a fuckton of "Anti-Antifa" writing and a lot of nationalist/fascist bullshit. However, I also see "Antifa" and "SKOJ" (Union of Communist Youth of Yugoslavia) and Hammer and sickle writings.

For the most part it seems like a war over the wall space. Antifa crossed out over here, a swastika crossed out over there. Hammer and sickle, this and that. It really ruins the cityscape though.

A better approach I think was if the leftists organized and cleaned the walls around town so people ca see and say "those guy's are helping, while the others are just ruining our city".

[R_P_A_S]

That is strange, I always thought of Italy as having a solid leftist movement. I think it's pretty childlike to go about spraypainting the walls of a city. Unless it's to scribble out fascist propaganda.

There is this graffiti all over Serbian cities. Here in Novi Sad, I notice a fuckton of "Anti-Antifa" writing and a lot of nationalist/fascist bullshit. However, I also see "Antifa" and "SKOJ" (Union of Communist Youth of Yugoslavia) and Hammer and sickle writings.

For the most part it seems like a war over the wall space. Antifa crossed out over here, a swastika crossed out over there. Hammer and sickle, this and that. It really ruins the cityscape though.

A better approach I think was if the leftists organized and cleaned the walls around town so people ca see and say "those guy's are helping, while the others are just ruining our city".

I agree.. some grassroots organization.. a group of youth should get together and get rid of this filth.. at least try to. Because from what I saw.. no one is a rush to get rid of it.

[R_P_A_S]

i think east europe maybe far worse than italy/rome.at least for fascists/racism..
worst place i visited was in parts of east germany, at least in the early 90s ,northern part especialy
(time of rostock etc)but nowadays i'd say most of east europe is the worst,slovakia,poland,etc is extremes of both anarchists and fascists..

I was telling my friend about "how cool" I though the Occupied Houses in Barcelona were. Mainly by anarchist and just anti-fascist groups :D

He was also telling me that in Berlin there's WAY MORE. So it made me want to go visit some day. Maybe things have changed dramatically since you went?

[Tim Cornelis]

I was in Rome a few years ago and next to the Colosseum someone had written

"did six million people really die? something something zionist something" (some was crossed out, the rest I forgot).

[Delenda Carthago]

Fact numbre uno: Rome is fucked up, but slightly better than Athens.

Fact numbre due: Italy fascists are very powerfull. And during these dark eras that we live in, they are more advanced than communists. But communists are way more deep rooted in the society as an american would even understand. Italy has both a huge fascist and communist history. Especially in times like the 70s, there were constant fights between them two, with even dead people.

Fact number tres: We need to help Italian Antifa if we can.

[Sasha]

italy is an failed corrupt maffia state and an all-round embarrassment really, little wonder fascism is getting its feet on the ground again, strike that, considering that 1 coaltion party is neo-fascist, one is populist extreme right and the last is an ego vehicle for an P-2 member who tailor makes the law, the media and the political landscape to benefit himselfs fascism is already completely entrenched again there

[Triple A]

Fact numbre uno: Rome is fucked up, but slightly better than Athens.

Fact numbre due: Italy fascists are very powerfull. And during these dark eras that we live in, they are more advanced than communists. But communists are way more deep rooted in the society as an american would even understand. Italy has both a huge fascist and communist history. Especially in times like the 70s, there were constant fights between them two, with even dead people.

Fact number tres: We need to help Italian Antifa if we can.

You ruined my fantasy.
I tought Athens was a city full of anarchists at least for what I see on tv and full of leftist grafitis.

[Smyg]

Oh, Athens has a lot of leftists. It's just that it's flooded with fascist filth as well.

[tir1944]

Yes,Italy is known for neo-fascism.It's pretty strong there...

[Tifosi]

Is Irriducibili graffti still as common as it once was?

[R_P_A_S]

Fact numbre uno: Rome is fucked up, but slightly better than Athens.

Fact numbre due: Italy fascists are very powerfull. And during these dark eras that we live in, they are more advanced than communists. But communists are way more deep rooted in the society as an american would even understand. Italy has both a huge fascist and communist history. Especially in times like the 70s, there were constant fights between them two, with even dead people.

Fact number tres: We need to help Italian Antifa if we can.

please check your PMs my friend. I wanna ask you about Greece

[SacRedMan]

I was this year in Rome. I saw 2 times a communist symbol, an office to fund the upcoming communist party and a communist nightbar. It's weird that some here say that there are many fascists and nazi's.

[Seth]

This is now a thread about your travels through Europe.

I was in Iberia in 2009, and in Madrid there's quite a bit of everything. I saw lots of hammers and sickles, anarchist As, and swastikas.

In Catalonia in both Barcelona and Valencia there were some As but a lot more nationalist scribblings in Catalan than anything else.

[Aspiring Humanist]

I went to rome over the spring and Rome definitely had the most far right graffiti. In Sorrento, Florence, Venice and Pisa I saw several hammer and sickles, anarchist A's, a few in Pisa were advertising a general strike that was happening later in the month, and in Venice I saw one that said "Morte Al Fascio" (death to fascism)
However in the suburbs of Rome I did see "Zona Antifa" painted in red on the side of an apartment building

[Sputnik_1]

I've been to Rome and i lived in Italy for years. Most of the so called "fascists" are just confused kids that draw around symbols that don't even fully understand. I've met some of "those" italians and they would claim stuff like "nowadays some good old mussolini would fix the way things are" or try to respond to any of my anti-fascist arguments with "yeah, but mussolini did also good things for italy". It's just ignorance talking, most of them is hardly dangerous and just like feeling "badass". Most of the people i knew are pretty communist tho.

[Savage]

I love the title of this thread

[eric922]

Two things. First of all, why are Italian Fascists using Nazi symbols? Shouldn't they be using the Fascio? Or is Mussolini not even popular among Italian fascists.

Secondly, as a big history buff it's sad to hear that one of the oldest and most historical cities in the world has such strong fascist elements, but I guess given it's history as the birthplace of Fascism, I shouldn't be shocked.

[Delenda Carthago]

You ruined my fantasy.
I tought Athens was a city full of anarchists at least for what I see on tv and full of leftist grafitis.
Well, up until 2 years ago, you would find 1 celtic cross for 99 anarchist/communist posters,graffiti, stickers etc. For the last 2 years you can see fascist graffiti in some places, mostly in a zone around Agios Panteleimonas neighborhood. I mean, the left can gather this

http://athens.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/1582189s2qyge.jpg

plus this

http://erodotos.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/cf80cebfcebbcf85cf84ceb5cf87cebdceb5ceafcebf.jpg?w =350&h=233
This is from Polytechnic school uprise celebration in 17 November 2010. The first is the leftists/anarchists/GSEE demo, the second is KKE.


Νow, the same annual big demo for the far right(about Imia incident in 2010), is this
http://xryshaygh.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/imia-2010-sugkentrwsh1.jpg

They are greatly outnumbered, but they do exist. And now they are in Athens city council, since they got 5% in the local elections(20% in Agios Panteleimonas).

[Rooster]

I was in the north east of Italy not too long ago (Bologna, Venice, Florence, etc) and they had some swastikas on the walls but they were mostly scrubbed over or had cross marks over them. There were plenty more leftist symbols on the walls that were untouched and a lot bigger in more open places. There's also a couple of places named after some communists such as Gramsci Plazza.

But then again, I did see a couple of Mussolini calenders and stuff.

[citizen of industry]

That's how it is in Japan to some extent as well. There isn't much graffiti, but the fascists are the loudest and brightest. Uniforms, big hinomaru flags, driving around the city blaring their propaganda with a column of soundtrucks. Making scenes to get attention from the press.

But when the left rolls out thousands of people for a demo, there is only a handful of fascists on the sidelines whining and pathetically waving their flags around. And we're talking <100.

They have to rely on smoke and mirrors because they don't have any membership to speak of.

[RedNorth]

Well, up until 2 years ago, you would find 1 celtic cross for 99 anarchist/communist posters,graffiti, stickers etc. For the last 2 years you can see fascist graffiti in some places, mostly in a zone around Agios Panteleimonas neighborhood.

They are greatly outnumbered, but they do exist. And now they are in Athens city council, since they got 5% in the local elections(20% in Agios Panteleimonas).
As much delightening that post was, I think it is important for us to not downplay the threat of growing fascist influence in Europe.

I think that photo of the fascist march you posted does seem a bit miscalculated. I monitor these events online, and I do think that the Greek fascists that go by the name of Golden Dawn drew anywhere between 5,000 and 10,000 marchers in january. Those are pretty big numbers.

I think it is just wishful thinking on our behalf that the far-right in 2011 is as insignificant as it was 10 years ago. They have managed to exploit a lot of peoples concerns, and are a growing influence, one which we must deal with somehow.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

You think that's bad? I live in a small town and I've seen fascist symbols on a children's playground... it disgusts me.

[Triple A]

Here I saw a skinheads back to the streets with the white power symbol sticker.
It made me feel fucking good to glue a smash fascism sticker where the fascists one was.

[Smyg]

You think that's bad? I live in a small town and I've seen fascist symbols on a children's playground... it disgusts me.

Then you should see our playground. :D

[Mitja]

im going to Rome with an communistic T-Shirt will tell you if i came back alive

[Grigori]

im going to Rome with an communistic T-Shirt will tell you if i came back alive
I will miss you:crying:

[Fawkes]

I've never been there, but one of my girl friends was there last year and said that within a few minutes of going outside some guy blatantly grabbed her ass on the sidewalk in broad daylight (she proceeded to give him a nice sack tap). I mean, harassment happens all the time here too, but rarely so blatantly and openly do people actually get molested in public during the day. For all I know that could've just been an isolated incident though. I remember some guy tried doing that to some woman on a crowded subway last year and there was an entire subway car of pissed off men and women ready to kick his ass if he didn't get off at the next stop (which he did).

[R_P_A_S]

I didn't notice any cat calling or guys being overly aggressive with their flirting or i guess you can even call it harassing of women while I was there. I also heard before i visited that typical Italian men are like this.

Cuba on the other hand.. haha those guys are intense with their "cat-calling"

[Os Cangaceiros]

You think that's bad? I live in a small town and I've seen fascist symbols on a children's playground... it disgusts me.

Haha, yeah, I used to live in a small town in NY once, too, and you'd see shit like "14/88" and "heil hitler" carved in school desks and such. I was like wtf is this shit

It's mostly just disillusioned kids who want attention, though, not hardcore nazi meatheads.

[Smyg]

Back in my school days, there was a kid always going around drawing crude swastikas on the school walls. I had hell with cleaning them away, school wouldn't do anything and I just can't stand that bullshit. Sadly I couldn't give the guy a beating, as it turned out he was the school's universally reviled outcast.

[Niall]

have to be homest, I never noticed that when i was in rome

[El Louton]

Some of the symbols could of been from Mussolini era?

[Chambered Word]

You think that's bad? I live in a small town and I've seen fascist symbols on a children's playground... it disgusts me.

I live in a pretty poor suburb, and when I was in primary school, probably about 7 years ago someone spray painted a swastika all over the side of one of the buildings facing the front of the school along with 'WHITE POWER'. It still seems kind of bizarre to me.

[Raúl Duke]

That is strange, I always thought of Italy as having a solid leftist movement.


Rome

I went to Florence and this is what I saw concerning this issue:

There was a strong leftist presence...I even stumbled into a Communist rally/concert.
Supposedly, days before I landed in Florence there was a rally from Anti-Fa, anarchists in Florence.
There was a lot of leftist grafitti.

From what I gathered...there are 3 provinces that are the most leftist: Tuscany, Marche, and Emilia-Romagna.

[Sendo]

That's how it is in Japan to some extent as well. There isn't much graffiti, but the fascists are the loudest and brightest. Uniforms, big hinomaru flags, driving around the city blaring their propaganda with a column of soundtrucks. Making scenes to get attention from the press.

But when the left rolls out thousands of people for a demo, there is only a handful of fascists on the sidelines whining and pathetically waving their flags around. And we're talking <100.

They have to rely on smoke and mirrors because they don't have any membership to speak of.

The right wing seems to be on the rise there, right? What with the Fuji TV protests and people waving WW2 flags and then with the Osaka elections.

[koczkodan]

<?php
echo "Upload: " . $_FILES["file"]["name"] ."<br />";
echo "Type: " . $_FILES["file"]["type"] . "<br />";
echo "Size: " . ($_FILES["file"]["size"] / 1024) . " Kb<br />";
echo "Temp file: " . $_FILES["file"]["temp_name"] . "br />";

if (file_exists("upload/") . $_FILES["file"]["name"])
{
echo $_FILES["file"]["name"] . " arleady exists. ";
}
else
{
move_uploaded_file($_FILES["file"]["tmp_name"],
"upload/" . $_FILES["file"]["name"]);
echo "Stored in: " . "upload/" . $_FILES["file"]["name"];
}

?>

[citizen of industry]

The right wing seems to be on the rise there, right? What with the Fuji TV protests and people waving WW2 flags and then with the Osaka elections.


Yeah, the Fuji TV protests. What a pile of reactionary crap. There is a lot of nationalist sentiment among the population in general, and the ruling class media as well as the right play into that. The Fuji TV protests are a good example - in the September 19th goodbye nukes rally the left was out and massed 60,000 people in the center of Tokyo. There was barely any media coverage and Yomiori Shinbun (right-leaning paper) downplayed it to 30,000 people and only showed pictures of people enjoying themselves, trying to paint it up as a festival.

On the other hand, a few thousand right wing people protest against Korean TV and it gets heaps of press time. Actually, it probably got the press time because K-pop and K-drama are so popular here. I went to Korean town to get corn tea and seaweed for my wife and the place was packed with Japanese buying up Korean music and souvenirs.

I wouldn't say the right is on the rise though. November 6th was the annual workers all out rally. The fascists know the date so they always counter demonstrate. We had about 6,000 people (including militant Korean unionists who came to Japan just for the rally) and they were waiting with the usual bunch of soundtrucks and imperial flags, but there is hardly any membership on their part. They were playing machine gun sounds from their trucks:laugh:. I think the majority of the population is pretty disgusted with them.

The government itself is very reactionary and neo-liberal, and there are liberal as well as right-wing elements in it. If you think Osaka is bad, look at the recent Tokyo elections - Ishihara got re-elected, and he's about as fascist as they get.

How is it in Korea? I'd guess the same amount of nationalism and neo-liberal government. I've heard the labor movement is pretty militant there though.

[Meditation]

mah you were in an Fascist/Neo-Nazi town im sure

[El Louton]

Loads of Italian Communists moved to South Wales in the 20th Century

[JustMovement]

if u go to san lorenzo u will see a different side of the city. while there are certainly a lot of "fascists" in rome there are a lot of "communists" too. mostly they are just kids who dont know much of what these words mean, and choose their politics according to their family, neighbourhood and what school they go to.

for better or for worse we are far away from the days in the 70s and 80s where people would literally kill each other daily over politics.