If most Muslims are peaceful and moderate why does this moderate Muslim website say ?

[tradeunionsupporter]

If most Muslims are peaceful and moderate why does this moderate Muslim website say this ? It says that if people in the Muslim world could choose their leaders they would most likely choose radical Islamists. My next question is this like saying during World War 2 all Germans were bad because most Germans voted for Adolf Hitler and the Nazis they were brainwashed and that is all they knew the only way of life they knew ?

Our Positions

Democracy is rule by the people; a system of free choice where rulers are elected and held accountable by their constituents. The element of free choice of leaders is an explosive topic right now in the Middle East & North Africa. If fair and free elections were held tomorrow, the majority of Arab countries would probably elect totalitarian leaders with an intolerant pro-Islamist agenda. The election of extremists would spell death to democracy. We must first expel Islamic extremists and terrorists from Arab and Muslim societies before democracy sweeps the region.

http://www.freemuslims.org/issues/democracy.php

[Smyg]

Oh for god's sake.

[Geiseric]

Doesn't mean they're popular... They just killed most of the socialists over the past 50 years. Look at the peoples republic of afghanistan... however since bush was elected does that make him popular?

[Geiseric]

Btw anything with "free" in its name is liberal, just a rule of thumb.

[Smyg]

^Mujeres Libres? :D

[tradeunionsupporter]

Im not saying all Muslims are bad and I am not saying that Islam is bad I think most Muslims are good I can't say that Islam is bad across the board.

[tradeunionsupporter]

I think most Muslims are good so are most Jews and Christians.

[tir1944]

Keepin' an eye on this thread...

[Veovis]

Most people are good. Religion can corrupt and turn someone into a fanatic, but that happens so infrequently.

[Blake's Baby]

I think the commentary is referring to the belief that there aren't viable (liberal) oppositions in most Muslim countries. 'If free and fair elections' were held... which they won't be, because most majority-Islamic states are autocratic or generally dictatorial.

Indonesia, however, as the largest majority-Islamic country, is a democracy (of sorts) and isn't a radical Islamic state.

Basically it's liberals whining about how democracy doesn't work if the stupid people get to vote for the angry people, instead of putting all the clever people in charge. So expell the angry people (where? France?) and then the clever people can come home and tell the stupid people that the stupid should vote for them , the clever people. Just like any other exiled elite-in waiting, really.

[Revolution starts with U]

Hitler wasn't elected... he lost.
The NAZI party was elected as the majority party, winning something like 30% of the vote, and instilled Hitler as chancellor.
Hitler was never elected.

[tfb]

Muslims are just as good/bad as members of any religion, including the ones people think are super chill like Buddhism. Tibet was a theocracy with slaves and one of the worst literacy rates in the world, and its ruler, the Dalai Lama (who was just chosen to rule Tibet because, when he was a kid, he had long arms and big earlobes or whatever bullshit characteristics they look for), is a homophobe who worked for the CIA.

[Thirsty Crow]

It's a reasonable assumption that certain people, who understand the immediate threat of "Western" imperialism, would also choose to support a political force which is broadly perceived as the only existing barrier to these interventions.

Now, two questions should be posed here:

1) Is it, in the first place, true that fundamentalist Islamism is the only possible choice when it comes to the struggle against the subjugation and oppression by imperialist powers

2) and if it is, how did this historical conditions arise, and what was the role of fundamentalist Islamism in this development; from this vantage point, people can ask themselves about the prospects for a concrete change of these (political) conditions.

[freepalestine]

have you checked on the background of that organisation(website).it sounds quite suspect in my opinion from what ive read

-----
Contact Us

Free Muslims Coalition members are prepared to speak out against terrorists and terrorist sympathizers on all occasions. The Coalition leadership is composed of experts on the following subjects: terrorism, Islam, Arab-Israeli conflict, women’s rights, the Middle East, the economics of terrorism, terrorist organizations, Muslim community and organizations in the United States, the Patriot Act, Iraq, Islamic states, Jihad, hijab, and anti-Semitism.

The Coalition leadership can be reached for press interviews and media appearances at the below coordinates.

Office location

1050 17th St. NW, Suite 1000
Washington, DC 20036
Phone numbers

Office: 202-776-7190
Media/After-hours: 202-907-5724

[Misanthrope]

Why even differentiate religious groups? They're all equally a problem, differentiating groups such as Judaism and Islam ultimately leads to racism.

[Zealot]

For a start, some muslims believe theocracy to be an ingrained part of the religion. Secondly, Islamic extremism is largely a reaction to imperialism which is now being touted about as authentic Islam by extremist factions. Historically, these fundamentalist movements have also been generously financed, whether it be from the Saudi royal family or the Bin laden family. So, obviously, overthrowing the bourgeoisie would almost itself put extremism out of action and give a chance for democracy. There are other factors to consider but I think this is one of the main ones.

[tir1944]

Why even differentiate religious groups? They're all as equally a problem, differentiating groups such as Judaism and Islam ultimately leads to racism.
:confused:
So you're suggesting that a billion+ Muslims and 10 mil+ Jews forget about the difeerences between their religions or what?
:confused:

[Misanthrope]

:confused:
So you're suggesting that a billion+ Muslims and 10 mil+ Jews forget about the difeerences between their religions or what?
:confused:

what?

[tir1944]

They're all equally a problem, differentiating groups such as Judaism and Islam ultimately leads to racism.
What?
What do you mean by this?

[hatzel]

I'm kind of with tir because I don't really understand the logic here at all...not certain how differentiating between distinct groups suddenly makes everybody a racist...?

[Misanthrope]

I'm kind of with tir because I don't really understand the logic here at all...not certain how differentiating between distinct groups suddenly makes everybody a racist...?

My point is, religion should be viewed as a whole. The problem should be dealt with as one single problem. When we start attacking separate sects and viewing some as "better" or "worse" it leads to racism and other ignorance. As shown in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the emphasize on the religious sects leads those to favor the Zionist because they are "civilized" and "white".

We shouldn't be attacking single religious sects, there's no point. We should be attacking religion as a whole.

[Agent Equality]

Now me being an atheist, I'd just say fuck all religions and be done with it.

[Misanthrope]

Now me being an atheist, I'd just say fuck all religions and be done with it.

Exactly.

OP: why are you surprised by this? Religion is bullshit. Also, this is a thread a Republican party (USA) member would make tbh. Republicans question shit like this to justify the "war on terror".

[ComradeMan]

Now me being an atheist, I'd just say fuck all religions and be done with it.

How does one "fuck" a religion? :lol:

Seriously, I think if everyone minded their own business and was a little bit more tolerant it wouldn't be a problem.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Al religion is bullshit: it doesn't matter it if is Islam, Christianity, or Judaism as sooner or later they corrupt people and lead to conflict.All the superstitions of the world have committed horrendous acts and will continue to commit horrendous acts because the fundemental fact is religion corrupts (much like capitalism and money).

All countries and faiths have their own radical groups: Israel/Jews, U.S.A/Joel's Army (Christian), Afghanistan/Taliban, etc

In regards to elections and the OP beliefs that within Islamic states radical government's would be brought to power one must remember that anytime radicalism surfaces it is due to powerful exterior conditions such as imperialism (i.e The radicals promise to bring stability and order to a war ridden nation by imposing their brand of religious law).

That's my bit anyway.

[Misanthrope]

How does one "fuck" a religion? :lol:

Seriously, I think if everyone minded their own business and was a little bit more tolerant it wouldn't be a problem.

Religion will only not be a problem when it is useless and outdated.

[Property Is Robbery]

Btw anything with "free" in its name is liberal, just a rule of thumb.
What about a free store? :p

[TheGodlessUtopian]

What about a free store? :p

Or free states? ;)

[Agent Equality]

How does one "fuck" a religion? :lol:

Seriously, I think if everyone minded their own business and was a little bit more tolerant it wouldn't be a problem.

There are many ways...;)

Well sadly people can't mind their own business because often times people
s business conflicts and gets in the way of important things. I'm sorry but I would not want to be in a revolution with someone who would thank God or a number of gods for the downfall of capitalism when it was humanity that brought that about.

As long as there are a number of different religions in this world, they will always disagree and will always cause conflict with one another should they meet. Religion disorganizes and misleads the working class, just as race and nationalism are meant to.

[ComradeMan]

As long as there are a number of different religions in this world, they will always disagree and will always cause conflict with one another should they meet. Religion disorganizes and misleads the working class, just as race and nationalism are meant to.

You could say that about sports teams and their fans too though. I don't think it's the problem with the thing itself, but rather with the people....

[hatzel]

I'm sorry but I would not want to be in a revolution with someone who would thank God or a number of gods for the downfall of capitalism when it was humanity that brought that about.

Ah...what? Or, perhaps more importantly...why? :confused:

[ComradeMan]

Or free states? ;)

Or Free Willy?

[Zealot]

Yes, religion is bullshit but 2 billion muslims aren't magically going to drop their religion nor is it contributing anything to this discussion.

[Agent Equality]

Well sports teams are MUCH different than religions (although some would beg to differ lol, especially in europe)

You can get into an argument about which team is better, but generally you can reach a consensus through results and rankings(although I understand where you are coming from with the people not giving a flying fuck about that, but still). With religion however, how are you going to reach a consensus if 2 or 3 or 4 religions are all arguing with each other on which one is right and who's God is stronger.

You obviously cannot reach a viable material consensus on those subjects seeing as how you can't even prove the ideas of the religions are real in the first place.

The only way you'd be able to prove that is wait it out until judgement day and see which God or gods show up and do their thing :rolleyes:

It creates a problem argued with faith, not with statistics, facts, and evidence. And we all know that arguing with faith leads down the most horrendous of paths.

Now if you could somehow make it so that no one will ever speak of religion to each other and never argue about it then well and not affecting people's ability to reason with logic and facts,then I suppose your method could work. When either of you are able to do that, then let me know and I will not have a problem with religion anymore :)

You can honestly preach tolerance all you want (as you should be doing in the mean time) but I honestly do not think that it should be the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal should be to educate people about religion's irrationality and shall we say...unconvert them :D .

I mean absolutely no offense to either of you if you are religious, but you must remember that religion is a tool with which the masses use to lessen their sufferings (i.e. that famous Marx quote we all know and love), particularly the sufferings caused by capitalism. Religion is reactionary. It is not progressive. It does not move with scientific, social, and economic progression. It stays where its at. The rhetoric may be modified to try and compromise with changing times, but the core ideas never change. Once socialism is established and living conditions dramatically increase all throughout the world and the world becomes a better place to live, religion will not have a neccesity or use anymore. People will want to live in this world, instead of hoping for a paradise in the next.

[genstrike]

Im not saying all Muslims are bad and I am not saying that Islam is bad I think most Muslims are good I can't say that Islam is bad across the board.

Why is it that you never see any sentences that start with "I'm not saying all white people are bad..."

[tradeunionsupporter]

I am anti Islamophobia I think most Muslims are good I have met and befriended Muslims and I have family members who have Muslim Friends I think Islamophobia is wrong just like Anti Semitism is wrong. My final question about this is do you think the reason as to why most Muslim Nations are run by Dictators/Dictatorships is because of Western Imperialism ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism

[Franz Fanonipants]

white supremacy itt

[tradeunionsupporter]

In my opinion most Musllims hate the West because of foreign policy not because of freedom.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2934272

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

I agree with FreePalestine, the group seems suspect and not only this, it seems like some mamby pampy pandering bullshit and I do not believe the group is comprised of American Muslims or Arabs unless they are total fucking morons. Also, the whole "moderate" and "fundamentalist" crap is purely a Western invention; I do not see myself as "moderate," and I have never refered myself as such a thing and don't know who would with half a brain or spine. Playing the "moderate," role and getting your little "peaceful," stamp seems to be the only way to be excepted by masta, you're one of the "good ones." Fuck that.

[tradeunionsupporter]

I think Islamophobia is found more among Right Wing Republicans than Progressive/Liberal Democrats.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I think Islamophobia is found more among Right Wing Republicans than Progressive/Liberal Democrats.

unless you are on revleft in which case its all over

[Iron Felix]

The fundamentalist Islamists only begin to be a problem when the radical left is destroyed. They fill in the void left by the left. Afghanistan, Iran, Egypt, whatever. Islamic fundamentalism is a direct consequence of these countries being integrated into the global capital. They're no worse than the fundamentalist Christians or Jews.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

I think Islamophobia is found more among Right Wing Republicans than Progressive/Liberal Democrats.

No, I'd say it's about the same except liberals generally make some half-ass attempt to pander to you/r community.

[ComradeMan]

The fundamentalist Islamists only begin to be a problem when the radical left is destroyed. They fill in the void left by the left. Afghanistan, Iran, Egypt, whatever. Islamic fundamentalism is a direct consequence of these countries being integrated into the global capital. They're no worse than the fundamentalist Christians or Jews.

When was the last time you heard of a Jewish jihad to convert the whole word to the Torah at the point of a sword?

When the hell was the left ever in Afghanista, Iran, Egypt or wherever to leave a significant void?

Fundamentalist Islam is a problem, and worst of all it's a problem for Muslims, normal decent Muslims, in that it besmirches their religion too. Islamic fundamentalism is not necessarily a direct result of global capital either.

[brigadista]

extreme right wing xtians are the problem

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

When was the last time you heard of a Jewish jihad to convert the whole word to the Torah at the point of a sword?

Jihad means "struggle," and can refer to more things than just jihad bil saif.


Fundamentalist Islam is a problem, and worst of all it's a problem for Muslims, normal decent Muslims, in that it besmirches their religion too. Islamic fundamentalism is not necessarily a direct result of global capital either.

I can agree with the above. I just have a problem with the term "fundamentalism," being used here because it implies that said parties are ultra-conservative Muslims holding on to the "true," Islam and not some "watered down," Islam. It's much more complex than that and because of terms like this (like you said) us sane Muslims get thrown under the bus, as it were. I think it's me who is fundamentalist and who holds a more correct interpretation of Islam than those the West deems as "fundamentalist." Terminology is a big issue here because it keeps people ignorant.

[tradeunionsupporter]

Islam & socialism

Discrimination against Muslims in Britain has increased markedly over the last few years. The horrendous, inhuman attack in Beslan, which outraged the world’s population including the vast majority of Muslims, will undoubtedly increase anti-Muslim prejudice. HANNAH SELL takes a socialist approach to how Islamaphobia can be fought, and draws out lessons from the policies of the Bolsheviks in the aftermath of the Russian revolution.

This does not mean that we see the entire Muslim population of Britain as one homogenous and progressive block. On the contrary, many factors, such as class, ethnicity and outlook divide the Muslim population. There are 5,400 Muslim millionaires in Britain, most of whom made their fortunes exploiting other Muslims. There are small Muslim communities that are extremely wealthy – for example just 88 Kuwaitis, most of whom are resident in Britain, have invested £55 billion in the British economy. While we have to defend the right of these billionaires to practise their religion free of repression, we also have to attempt to convince working-class Muslims that they have diametrically opposed interests to these people, and that the road to liberation lies in finding common cause with other sections of the working class worldwide but, as they are living in Britain, first and foremost here.

http://www.socialismtoday.org/87/islam.html

[ComradeMan]

Jihad means "struggle," and can refer to more things than just jihad bil saif.

I know, but the word has come to be used as such... you know what I mean- and this leads to the second point.


I can agree with the above. I just have a problem with the term "fundamentalism," being used here because it implies that said parties are ultra-conservative Muslims holding on to the "true," Islam and not some "watered down," Islam. It's much more complex than that and because of terms like this (like you said) us sane Muslims get thrown under the bus, as it were. I think it's me who is fundamentalist and who holds a more correct interpretation of Islam than those the West deems as "fundamentalist." Terminology is a big issue here because it keeps people ignorant.

I agree- a real fundamentalist Muslim should be the one who doesn't use suicide bombs and killing, just like a real fundamentalist Christian should forgive, not judge, and turn the other cheek! ;)

Takbir All-h w'akbar!

[tradeunionsupporter]

We should work to raise the Class Consciousness among Working Class Muslims get them to see that they have more in common with Working Class Non Muslims than they do with Muslims who are Capitalists and Muslims who are Millionaires and Billionaires and the Muslims who are a part of the Bourgeoisie.

Islam & socialism

Discrimination against Muslims in Britain has increased markedly over the last few years. The horrendous, inhuman attack in Beslan, which outraged the world’s population including the vast majority of Muslims, will undoubtedly increase anti-Muslim prejudice. HANNAH SELL takes a socialist approach to how Islamaphobia can be fought, and draws out lessons from the policies of the Bolsheviks in the aftermath of the Russian revolution.

This does not mean that we see the entire Muslim population of Britain as one homogenous and progressive block. On the contrary, many factors, such as class, ethnicity and outlook divide the Muslim population. There are 5,400 Muslim millionaires in Britain, most of whom made their fortunes exploiting other Muslims. There are small Muslim communities that are extremely wealthy – for example just 88 Kuwaitis, most of whom are resident in Britain, have invested £55 billion in the British economy. While we have to defend the right of these billionaires to practise their religion free of repression, we also have to attempt to convince working-class Muslims that they have diametrically opposed interests to these people, and that the road to liberation lies in finding common cause with other sections of the working class worldwide but, as they are living in Britain, first and foremost here.

http://www.socialismtoday.org/87/islam.html

[tradeunionsupporter]

Marxism and Religion
Written by Alan Woods Sunday, 22 July 2001

We have received quite a few e-mails from our subscribers asking about the attitude of Marxists to religion, relating not only to Marxism and Christianity, but also to Islam. For example, we have received several communications from sympathetic people who support liberation theology, in the Philippines. We are also in contact with groups who describe themselves as Islamic Marxists. This is clearly an interesting and important question, which deserves serious treatment. As an initial contribution, we are publishing an article by Alan Woods which is actually based on his replies to such letters.

http://www.marxist.com/marxism-religion-liberation-theology220701.htm

[Rafiq]

Two Words:

Free Territory.

:laugh:

[Iron Felix]

When was the last time you heard of a Jewish jihad to convert the whole word to the Torah at the point of a sword?

When the hell was the left ever in Afghanista, Iran, Egypt or wherever to leave a significant void?

Fundamentalist Islam is a problem, and worst of all it's a problem for Muslims, normal decent Muslims, in that it besmirches their religion too. Islamic fundamentalism is not necessarily a direct result of global capital either.
Hmm? Israel? Committing ethnic cleansing of the indeginous population of Palestine and replacing them with Zionist farmers so the children of Abraham will be worthy enough for the Messiah to return and have their pretty little apocalypse and all that stupid Jewish shit. The Jews don't spread their faith by the sword because they consider us gentiles to be racially inferior and undeserving of their religion, for they are the chosen people and we were made to be their slaves.

Afghanistan had a strong Communist movement and the Islamization of the country didn't begin until it collapsed(then we had the SU and America involvement). Egypt's left was massacred by Nasser(And the SU actually supported him in it, yay SU!). Now the void left by the Arab nationalists and socialists was filled by the Islamists, the same is true in every Muslim country. This Wahhabism and Islamic fundamentalism only begins to be a wide-spread phenomenon when a country starts to be intergrated in global capital and can only be offset by a strong Left.

[hatzel]

Hmm? Israel? Committing ethnic cleansing of the indeginous population of Palestine and replacing them with Zionist farmers so the children of Abraham will be worthy enough for the Messiah to return and have their pretty little apocalypse and all that stupid Jewish shit. The Jews don't spread their faith by the sword because they consider us gentiles to be racially inferior and undeserving of their religion, for they are the chosen people and we were made to be their slaves.

What is this I don't even...

Anybody who thinks Israel is performing some kind of religious mission is about as stupid as those who think America went into Iraq for Christian purposes, to exact revenge on the Babylonians or something. No.

And also you should try to make more sense from a purely religious perspective...

[dodger]

grief...there are more muslims in India than Pakistan...probably more Jews n New York than Tel AVIV...PEOPLE.. JUST PEOPLE. Communists have have a hard time in theocratic states, nor do t.hey prosper in secular ones. Turkey, Iraq, Egypt, Syria....neither do trade unions. I have lived amongst Muslims all my working life. Yet I would be hard pressed to give a blanket view on what a muslim was...how he thought...or indeed whether he or she might be progressive or not. I certainly believe every country must gird itself and tame their religion. Put it in it's place. The queen of England is the head of the Anglican church......who gives a fig? Church attendance figures are easily googled. We are happily heading for hell with a handcart. Just before I left we paid our last respects to an old friend and workmate...indian muslim who originated in Kenya.....his liver...a believer...but also a very social drinker. Even with spot checks at work he managed to drink himself to an early grave. Muslim neighbour's son begged me not to mention to Pa that I clocked him stepping out with a Hindu lass in the next town...The Moroccan lad opposite, impishly calls the Pakistanis at his Mosque "6 toes" on account of "they all marry their cousins". So maybe the book has been written, "what is a muslim."...I might manage a footnote but step back from pontificating. Al I know is that I despise the Muslim faith along with roman uncle tom cobbly and all. Honour killing...forced marriages...weasel words about condoms not protecting against aids...fighting against abortion and I look forward to Dawkins next blessed revelation...science knocking another nail into the coffin of religion. Beating children in a Madrasa, how long will we tolerate that behaviour. Fighting tooth and nail against divorce reform, Ripping out a childs clitoris....child sacrifice...yes in the 21st century! Beating evil spirits out of disturbed vulnerable folk....Attacks on those who wish to jettison religion.....it's all there for all to see. Trade union supporter..if you are hunting down ISLAMOPHOBES...just try talking to those that have freed themselves of grovelling 5 times a day to a non existent deity. Or let your fingers google ex muslims. It seems that 6m muslims a year are leaving the faith in Africa, How many of them have even heard of the good professor I don't know...maybe they just got bored...or like the pentecostal who gave 10% of his hard earned cash, just wised up.

Roll on november 5th

http://www.google.com.ph/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=lewis%20bonfire&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLewes_B onfire&ei=aKymTsnLK4-viQf5ztSZDg&usg=AFQjCNEx7QuPCmPD-vLP0c6-LffGzgI_mw

[tir1944]

Islam is,just as every other (especially Abrahamic) religion,very dangerous and reactionary.
Communists are atheists and we have always fought against the evil called religion.
And it IS possible to eradicate it,as the history of P.R. Albania shows us.A predominantly Muslim country became an atheist one in the 60s-70s.Mind the fact that it Europe's most backwards countries in 1939.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Bezhnoznik_u_stanka_22-1929.jpeg/419px-Bezhnoznik_u_stanka_22-1929.jpeg

[hatzel]

Islam is [...] very dangerous

It really isn't. I don't feel intimidated by Islam in the slightest. It doesn't keep me up at night, trembling in fear. I don't look at a Muslim and think 'this person constitutes a (potential) threat to me or my safety.' I don't view Islam or its followers as my enemy. I have absolutely no desire to restrict their freedoms in any way. Nor to fight against them. Nor to demand they abide by any rules I could devise for them, or by the rules I myself follow. I have no interest in obligating them to abandon their religion, or to modify it to suit my tastes.

Islam poses no danger to me, nor to anything I envisage.

[ComradeMan]

The Jews don't spread their faith by the sword because they consider us gentiles to be racially inferior and undeserving of their religion, for they are the chosen people and we were made to be their slaves..

According to whom?

Isaiah 19:25 "The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance."

[freepalestine]

According to whom?

Isaiah 19:25 "The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, "Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance." palestinians(cannannites) said lots of crazy things ....

[ComradeMan]

palestinians(cannannites) said lots of crazy things ....

So a reputedly 8th century BCE prophet of the Tribe of Judah was a Canaanite? Stop putting a Palestinian nationalist spin on just about everything....:rolleyes: If you want to get "biblical" then look to see that Philistines were not synonymous to Canaanites necessarily.

[Robert]

I'm Catholic and have no Jewish or Muslim antecedents. But Islam gets on my nerves more than the other two. And I fear Islamic extremists more than Catholic or Jewish extremists, if the latter two really exist.

For what ever reason, Islamists are doing most of the terrorist bombings around the world lately. I'm sick of it and don't care if you think that makes me a "islamophobic."

I never really thought of it much until I started hearing "Allahu Akbar" as the last words of so many bombers, and then that murdering psychiatrist Nidal Hassan, that killed those unarmed (and his fellow) soldiers in Texas. Are we to make no connection at all between the words and the simultaneously executed deeds?

[Smyg]

If they exist? Hah, don't be stupid.

[hatzel]

For what ever reason, Islamists are doing most of the terrorist bombings around the world lately. I'm sick of it and don't care if you think that makes me a "islamophobic."

But Robert, you forget that this isn't actually true; there's plenty of 'background noise' terrorism we hardly ever hear about. Just look at the statistics published by Europol concerning terrorist activity in the EU, for example...in 2006, 497 non-Islamic "failed, foiled or successful" terrorist attacks compared to 1 Islamic; in 2007, 579 non-Islamic, 4 Islamic; in 2008, 515 non-Islamic, and no Islamic...this trend continues, year after year. I don't have the numbers for global terrorism (the only other number that is jumping out at me is the FBI's claim that 96% of terrorism in the US is non-Islamic), but according to the latest figures I have, in the first half of 2009, Spain was the 4th most terrorist-afflicted nation on Earth, with 14 incidents. France is also often affected by separatist attacks. Even if we were to factor in non-European terrorist attacks, I would be willing to bet that separatist attacks would far outnumber Islamist attacks. In fact, many of the attacks we may see as 'Islamist' are separatist, such as those in Russia's southern provinces, and attacks over Palestine and Kashmir.

[Smyg]

When Breivik killed our comrades and my compatriots in Norway, everyone jumped the shark and called islamist. Hm? The following events showed that terrorists aren't always outside elements, but at the very core of Europe.

[tir1944]

Islam is,unlike most religions,in expansion,it's gaining ground and influence everywhere...

[hatzel]

Islam is,unlike most religions,in expansion,it's gaining ground and influence everywhere...

Debatable. If we compare Christianity and Islam, for example, we notice that there are around 25 million 'new Christians' created each year, either by merely being born, or converting. Islam is slightly lower, at 22 million. The difference is that around 2,5 million people convert to Christianity each year, compared to only 800,000 converts to Islam. According to the 2005 Encyclopædia Britannica, as cited on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastest_growing_religion). Of course there are considerably more Christians than there are Muslims (around 1 in 3 people in the world are Christian, and 1 in 5 Muslim), but the fact that both are expanding by roughly the same number each yeah shows that the "expansion" of Islam is largely a result of high birthrates, rather than any expansion of influence. Christianity 'exerts' itself disproportionately, it seems, judging by the considerably higher rates of conversion to Christianity than to Islam, in both absolute and relative (as a percentage of world Christendom/Islam) terms.

But of course the high rates of conversion to Christianity may have nothing to do with Christians foisting their religion on anybody. I'm not making that claim. Just that if we are to talk of "gaining influence," it appears as though this better describes Christianity than Islam.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

Islam is,just as every other (especially Abrahamic) religion,very dangerous and reactionary.

No, it isn't, fuck this Salafi nonsense that you're associating with Islam proper.

I refuse to say 'Wahhabi' as I believe it's haraam to do so in that it's profaning one of the names of Allah (swt).



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Bezhnoznik_u_stanka_22-1929.jpeg/419px-Bezhnoznik_u_stanka_22-1929.jpeg

Oh wow, Jews and Arabs/Muslims with huge beards and noses and a fucking turban, that's not blatantly racist of anything.


Just before I left we paid our last respects to an old friend and workmate...indian muslim who originated in Kenya.....his liver...a believer...but also a very social drinker.

Interesting, probably could have gotten along well with this chap though my drinking is on the upper end of social.


Al I know is that I despise the Muslim faith along with roman uncle tom cobbly and all.

This should be interesting.


Honour killing

Fairly confident murder is haraam.


forced marriages

Under Islamic jurisprudence all marriages must be consenual and there can not be lies, lies of omission, be done under false pretenses or any tomfoolery to take place for it to be legitimate. Forced marriages are not condoned in Islam.


...weasel words about condoms not protecting against aids

General ignorance also not associated with Islam in general.


fighting against abortion

Not constrained to Islam and I fully support the woman's right to choose what to do or not to do with her body and life.


Beating children in a Madrasa, how long will we tolerate that behaviour.

This is not standard practice and if I say this the person in question would be (read severly) reprimanded. Child abuse isn't constrained in Islam.


Fighting tooth and nail against divorce reform

:rolleyes:


Ripping out a childs clitoris

FGM is a vile cultural practice found only in the Nothern African countries which has no place in Islam nor is it an Islamic practice nor is said practice peformed anywhere else in the Islamic world other than the Northern African countries. All of my sisters have not been circumsized. In Islam, we are commanded to not purposely harm or mutiliate our bodies thus you can see how this conflict with this teaching.


child sacrifice


Are you serious? Really? What's next, we drink their blood (blood is haraam, btw)?


Beating evil spirits out of disturbed vulnerable folk

Superstitious nonsense which has no place in Islam.


Or let your fingers google ex muslims.

I have yet to hear or meet an ex-Muslim who wasn't a complete and total idiot who knows nothing of the religion they have rejected. Most especially the ones who the Western media likes to hold up for their little periodical propoganda pieces. Before you shart all over my religion how about you read up on it first before making wild accusations though I respect your disbelief. Also, Dawkins is a twit.


I'm Catholic and have no Jewish or Muslim antecedents. But Islam gets on my nerves more than the other two. And I fear Islamic extremists more than Catholic or Jewish extremists, if the latter two really exist.

:rolleyes:



For what ever reason, Islamists are doing most of the terrorist bombings around the world lately. I'm sick of it and don't care if you think that makes me a "islamophobic."


"Islamism," is a political movement.


I never really thought of it much until I started hearing "Allahu Akbar" as the last words of so many bombers, and then that murdering psychiatrist Nidal Hassan, that killed those unarmed (and his fellow) soldiers in Texas. Are we to make no connection at all between the words and the simultaneously executed deeds?

What does a few nutters saying the takbir before commiting various sins which is aborhent in and of itself have to do with anything? They might as well have said "who fucking farted!?" Just because they said the takbir before commiting the deeds they did doesn't mean they have an association with the ummah or Islam proper or that it should reflect negatively on the ummah as a whole or Islam.

[ComradeMan]

cannaanites=levantines.

Ahistorical back projection.

[ComradeMan]

well you chosen to deny historical facts.

Which historical facts? You're trying to describe an 8th century BCE prophet of the tribe of Judah as a "Palestinian/Canaanite".... :rolleyes:

[ComradeMan]

yes .lol.too much historical proof.are you telling us that palestinians are all new immigrants to palestine?
please ,forget your revisionism.

What's your point? Are you trying to dredge up some version of historical/genetic ties to the land from the jāhilīyah
as a basis for legitimacy, ironically the same thing you accuse the Zionists of doing?

Revisionism? What? Countering ahistoric claims like yours that would make as much sense as someone's describing Isaiah as an "Israeli".

[Koba1917]

The biggest probably is that all religion is based upon different groups and interpretations of their Holy Book. There is multiple views on Sharia law that different Muslim sects hold. It's not like every Muslim I see is a Theocrat, but on the contrary. Youtuber named Dawahfilms (http://www.youtube.com/dawahfilms) sheds some light on interpretations and views on Sharia law/Islamic States.

[tradeunionsupporter]

If there are Moderate Muslims why do most Muslims living in Iran or Pakistan or Egypt agree with many radical ideas also why are these nations dictatorships also why are most Muslim nations run by dictators Im talking about the polls are Muslims in these nations just brainwashed by their medias and dictators by propaganda ?

In a recent poll by the Pew Research Center, this and other areas of Islam in politics were examined.

According to the poll, extremist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah received mixed rating from the Muslim public ranging from Jordan showing a slight majority of those polled see the organizing in a favorable light, to Turkey where neither Hamas nor Hezbollah had favorable ratings in double digits and are generally viewed as negative.

http://www.examiner.com/offbeat-news-in-national/poll-75-of-muslims-egypt-pakistan-favor-stoning-people-for-adultery

[tradeunionsupporter]

Im not saying that there are no Moderate Muslims Im asking if most Muslims in the World are Moderate.

[tradeunionsupporter]

A very large number of Muslims live in poverty and ignorance; they look to radical solutions as a way out of their situation.

[tradeunionsupporter]

What does everyone think ?

[ComradeMan]

Im not saying that there are no Moderate Muslims Im asking if most Muslims in the World are Moderate.

The trouble with this is that "moderate" itself is a subjective term. What is your measuring stick for being "moderate"?

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

Before I respond to your posts, let me first quote Gaddafi, this sums up my feelings on your comments and the views held by the majority of the Western world.

"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."-Col. Gaddafi.


If there are Moderate Muslims why do most Muslims living in Iran or Pakistan or Egypt agree with many radical ideas

Define "radical ideas."

Also, I could very easily point examples of growing Christian extremism and terrorism throughout the Western world and make gross generalizations too.



also why are these nations dictatorships also why are most Muslim nations run by dictators


Because we're savage fucks and need a strong leader to keep us in line. :rolleyes:

It's cool though because thankfully the Western world will bomb us into utopia and freeeeedumb.


A very large number of Muslims live in poverty and ignorance

Seriously? Go fuck yourself, I am not going to assume you can be this dumb.

[Ocean Seal]

We must first expel Islamic extremists and terrorists from Arab and Muslim societies before democracy sweeps the region.
Sounds like a job for 'Merica fuck yeah. Coming to bring democracy... after we kill a few million "extremists" so that everyone can have democracy and secularism fuck yeah. And then we'll bring our enterprises and post record profits... Oh shit I wasn't supposed to say that last part.

[tradeunionsupporter]

Are most Muslim Nations Dictatorships because the Dictators are Western/American Puppets ?


Published on Wednesday, June 9, 2004 by the Agence France Presse (http://www.afp.com/)
Reagan Played Decisive Role in Saddam Hussein's Survival in Iran-Iraq War

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0609-01.htm

[Iron Felix]

When defining Islam as "terrorist" in nature, don't forget that the leader of global terrorism is a Christian nation. It's called the USA. After it follows a Jewish nation, that one is called Israel.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Are most Muslim Nations Dictatorships because the Dictators are Western/American Puppets ?

laffo

why is it that you're worried about people's "natural law" rights and not a people's economic wellbeing? are the vast majorities of most muslim nations poor because of capitalist structures?

fuck "dictatorships" or whatever fears liberals have about the other, you need to be asking about class or you're not doing what you ought to be.

[Franz Fanonipants]

When defining Islam as "terrorist" in nature, don't forget that the leader of global terrorism is a Christian nation. It's called the USA.

the usa is a "christian" nation

a christian theocracy in the usa would be very different from what you observe.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

Fuck it, I lied, I'm down with al-Qaeda and so is every Muslim on this planet, Sheikh Usama is shaheed! TAKBIR! ALLAHU AKBAR! ALALALALALLAALALALALALALALALALLAA!

Did I make you piss your pants TUS?

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

The Jews don't spread their faith by the sword because they consider us gentiles to be racially inferior and undeserving of their religion, for they are the chosen people and we were made to be their slaves.
If you're being serious, that's quite an antisemitic statement.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

If you're being serious, that's quite an antisemitic statement.

Apparently you've never heard of that bastard Ovadia Yosef.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Apparently you've never heard of that bastard Ovadia Yosef.
So "the Jews" are collectively guilty for his idiocy or the idiocy of like-minded people?

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

So "the Jews" are collectively guilty for his idiocy or the idiocy of like-minded people?

No, I'm just saying, I realize comrade Felix was making a generalized statement but prominent Israeli theologians have made such comments, so it's not like it hasn't been said.

But no, you're right.