What does Occupy Wall Street need?

[TheCuriousJournalist]

I've just started to follow occupy wall street, and will be writing an article on it soon.

I'm wondering, what do you believe they need to do to make their efforts more effective?

More organization? How?
Violence?
More specific demands?
What tactics?

Essentially what I see is a group of well intentioned people who will sit and chant for a few weeks until the cops beat the shit out of them, drag them away, and end any chance the protests had. It needs more than what it has now.


And yes, I realize the people there are doing far more than me. I can't be there, wish I could, but I'm not. Regardless of their efficiency or lack of, I appreciate and respect their efforts.

[ВАЛТЕР]

A bit more class consciousness is what I would like. And more radical demands, Anti-Capitalist to be specific, rather than simply Anti-Wall street/Anti-Corporation. I think it will get there if a more revolutionary group infiltrates it.

Violence? I don't think so. However, it is a possibility that it will occur. Right now all violent action has been perpetrated by the police. The people will fight back eventually. I hope.

Tactics? I think they should remain peaceful, however I think more propaganda would be nice.

[Rodrigo]

I think they need planning tactics and strategies involving revolutionary violence, conciliating it with the defense against police brutality. There's no efficient defense without offense. Class conflict needs to grow.

[Broletariat]

Would it be of any value for me to create fliers relating to occupy wallstreet and post them here.

That's about all I could really do, I think we have some comrades here who actually go to the protests, they could print them off or something. Otherwise I could simply create solidarity fliers and pass out locally.

[ВАЛТЕР]

I would like to add to my previous statement, that I would like more direct action. Attacking property of the Corporations and banks with graffiti or fucking it up in general.

As for violence I would like to add only out of defense. Eventually the cops are going to have enough and people are going to get hurt. I would rather see a cop hurt over a protestor.

[Smyg]

Less liberals.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Less liberals.

BOOM.

/Thread

[MustCrushCapitalism]

Pipe bombs.

[OHumanista]

They need to realise socialism is the only viable alternative to capitalism.
Other than that, grow and agitate more.

[scarletghoul]

time, thats all. OWS itself obviously wont change anything, but its an important moment because it opens up possibilities for a radical movement. as things develop, the liberals will get sorted from the radicals, and the real struggle will begin. thats what it seems like anyway. this is just the opening scene

[CommieTroll]

Guns

[ВАЛТЕР]

Meh while we are listing weaponry it would be nice if we could get them a couple of Sukhois and a few T90s :P

[Nox]

A giant poster of Stalin to parade around with them.

[socialistjustin]

If people want to make flyers, I know I would be happy to pass them out.

[CommieTroll]

A giant poster of Stalin to parade around with them.

That's your answer to everything...........:laugh:

[Aleenik]

A giant poster of Stalin to parade around with them.I'd gladly take a free one.So I could burn it.

[scarletghoul]

A giant poster of Stalin to parade around with them.
good point, comrade

[RED DAVE]

I think they need planning tactics and strategies involving revolutionary violence, conciliating it with the defense against police brutality. There's no efficient defense without offense. Class conflict needs to grow.And I think that you need to learn a little more about organizing class struggle and revolution before you run your mouth off and start talking about revolutionary violence. (Actually, Rodrigo, given your politics, this is to be expected from you.)

This goes, as far as I'm concerned, for all you bullshit artists talking about pipe bombs, guns, attacking corporate property, etc.

What OWS needs, indeed, is revolutionary Marxist politics, not adolescent fantasies. Start learning about revolution from something other than video games or the Little Red Book.

RED DAVE

[RedHal]

yeah go read some trotsky, cuz troskyites have been leading successful revolutions throughout history, oh wait....

[Kadir Ateş]

I'm wondering, what do you believe they need to do to make their efforts more effective?

More organization? How?
Violence?
More specific demands?
What tactics?

Essentially what I see is a group of well intentioned people who will sit and chant for a few weeks until the cops beat the shit out of them, drag them away, and end any chance the protests had. It needs more than what it has now.


And yes, I realize the people there are doing far more than me. I can't be there, wish I could, but I'm not. Regardless of their efficiency or lack of, I appreciate and respect their efforts.

Donate some works by Marx to their library. They don't need outside help, unless it is from the working class.

[black magick hustla]

yeah go read some trotsky, cuz troskyites have been leading successful revolutions throughout history, oh wait....

i assume someone like you with a shitty internet meme as an avatar will lead the next rev too. why are the forum resident maoists all a bunch of posturing weenies. ya'll wouldn't survive 2 mins outside suburbia and in hard neighborhoods, think about that before talking about taking arms

[Zealot]

More organization? How? Vanguard
Violence? Maybe
More specific demands? End Capitalism
What tactics? Flood the place with Manifestos, lots of manifestos

[aty]

More organization? How? Vanguard
Violence? Maybe
More specific demands? End Capitalism
What tactics? Flood the place with Manifestos, lots of manifestos
Yeah, maybe you can do that in the US after having this kind of more peaceful protests for maybe like 3-5 years...

[Zeus the Moose]

I'd ague the next step for the Occupy movements is regional coordination. In my area (northern NJ), there's occupations in NYC, Jersey City, Trenton, Philadelphia, the Lehigh Valley, Scranton, and Hartford (and maybe others that I don't know about.) Getting people from the different local groups talking to each other, helping put forth the sense that this is a cohesive, unified movement (even if it isn't quite there yet), seems like a path to greater organisation.

[thefinalmarch]

yeah go read some trotsky, cuz troskyites have been leading successful revolutions throughout history, oh wait....
LOL this poster right here thinks revolutions are the result of ideological conflicts

cool idealism bro

[Nox]

This is what they need (expansion on my earlier post):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/May_Day_in_London.jpg

[Fawkes]

Us. We need to be at the existing occupations or, if there's not one close by, setting up our own and engaging in non-aggressive/dogmatic debate and discussion with people that are already down there and people that should be down there (co-workers, classmates, neighbors, etc.). What it needs is class-consciousness, and raising that is the most important thing we can be doing at this point, and that is done by engaging people and disseminating information, not by building some "vanguard" or throwing molotovs.

[Smyg]

yeah go read some trotsky, cuz troskyites have been leading successful revolutions throughout history, oh wait....


Go read some [Insert socialist theorist], because [Insert members of appropriate tendency] have been leading successful revolutions throughout history. Oh wait...

[Binh]

OWS needs Marxists who are willing to listen and learn before they try to lead anything. I've written extensively about my experiences there:
http://planetanarchy.net/articles.htm

[Seth]

1. More Radical Demands, which will only come through:

2. Leadership and organization, and:

3. Class consciousness, which means they'd have to:

4. Purge the Paulites, Libertarians, ancaps, teabaggers, conspiracy theorists, flower children, and other undesirables from their ranks, and:

5. Subordinate the student movement to the workers' movement.

Otherwise the movement will eventually fizzle out and be broken up and absorbed into liberal progressivism, conservatism, and libertarianism.

[ClearlyChrist]

Thousands Of Rounds Of Ammunition, And Hundreds Of Blood-Soaked Suits :laugh:

[CommunityBeliever]

Thousands Of Rounds Of Ammunition, And Hundreds Of Blood-Soaked Suits :laugh:

I think we could also do with some tanks. A few T-90s would be a good start.

[Savage]

I think that the question of what can be done to ‘revolutionize’ these occupy protests is misled. Class struggle isn’t the result of the theoretical ingenuity and charisma of a sect of individuals, and it is clear that these protests are not communist, so attempting to win them over is seems pretty pointless. With the impending conditions in places like the US, we can hope to see a genuine proletarian assault on capital as class antagonisms increase, ensuring us something a lot less lame than the Wall Street protests.

[S.Artesian]

What it needs is a strategy, network, organization to respond when the city moves to disperse its site downtown. It needs to have support in schools, with students, and teachers, walking out. It needs to talk to transit workers, healthcare workers etc. about possible labor actions to interrupt the attempted dispersal.

[Threetune]

What it needs is a strategy, network, organization to respond when the city moves to disperse its site downtown. It needs to have support in schools, with students, and teachers, walking out. It needs to talk to transit workers, healthcare workers etc. about possible labor actions to interrupt the attempted dispersal.

But why should anyone be doing any of this if you have no perspectives for taking power?

[RED DAVE]

I think that the question of what can be done to ‘revolutionize’ these occupy protests is misled. Class struggle isn’t the result of the theoretical ingenuity and charisma of a sect of individuals, and it is clear that these protests are not communist, so attempting to win them over is seems pretty pointless. With the impending conditions in places like the US, we can hope to see a genuine proletarian assault on capital as class antagonisms increase, ensuring us something a lot less lame than the Wall Street protests.But how do you propose that Leftists address what is going on right now? Or do you propose to ignore it?

RED DAVE

[RED DAVE]

But why should anyone be doing any of this if you have no perspectives for taking power?This is the process in the development of a strategy and the working class organizing for power.

You got something better?

RED DAVE

[Rocky Rococo]

What does OWS need right now? I'll bet hundreds of new pairs of socks might be well received.

[Tablo]

What does OWS need right now? I'll bet hundreds of new pairs of socks might be well received.
And some heavy coats with winter coming.

[Fawkes]

1. More Radical Demands, which will only come through:

2. Leadership and organization, and:

3. Class consciousness, which means they'd have to:

4. Purge the Paulites, Libertarians, ancaps, teabaggers, conspiracy theorists, flower children, and other undesirables from their ranks, and:

5. Subordinate the student movement to the workers' movement.

Otherwise the movement will eventually fizzle out and be broken up and absorbed into liberal progressivism, conservatism, and libertarianism.
The sperm is just reaching the egg on this and you're already talking about purges....


But why should anyone be doing any of this if you have no perspectives for taking power?
So we should sit on our couches with our thumbs up our asses waiting til the day where every worker has finally read some marx or kropotkin and then do something? In defending the encampment, we'd be defending the very place where revolutionary sentiments are growing through communication and debate and where "perspectives for taking power" are forming. Revolutions start from a shared sense of dissatisfaction, they don't start with every single worker simultaneously walking off the job and instantly organizing into some militant group where everyone agrees on the exact goals and strategies necessary to overthrow capitalism.

[RHIZOMES]

And I think that you need to learn a little more about organizing class struggle and revolution before you run your mouth off and start talking about revolutionary violence. (Actually, Rodrigo, given your politics, this is to be expected from you.)

This goes, as far as I'm concerned, for all you bullshit artists talking about pipe bombs, guns, attacking corporate property, etc.

What OWS needs, indeed, is revolutionary Marxist politics, not adolescent fantasies. Start learning about revolution from something other than video games or the Little Red Book.

RED DAVE


yeah go read some trotsky, cuz troskyites have been leading successful revolutions throughout history, oh wait....

facepalm. Way to bring sectarianism into the picture so you can deflect a very real and important point. I swear, Revleft strikes more as a historical roleplaying forum than a revolutionary leftist forum sometimes (most of the time).

[Rafiq]

Violence and Class concionsse is all they need