Hello

[hllymatterson]

Hi, one of my friends sent me here and is trying to convert me to communism and im libertarian. my friend said to say his name on here is Dzhugashvili and that you guys can teach me about communism. I'm hard to crack, though. I also am very knowledgable on conspiracy theories. So start commenting I guess.

[RGacky3]

The economy is by definition a social institution, so it should be socially controlled, if institutions affect ourlives we should have a say in how it is run.

Also companies have all their wealth created by the workers, why should'nt the workers have a say in what gets done with that wealth.

Thats all socialism is about, society having a say in the economy democratically, and workers having a say in their companies democratically.

Capitalism is not about freedom, its about plutocracy.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Hello and welcome, well communism isn't a conspiracy theory so idk how much thats going to help you. However, if you are interested in learning, feel free to ask questions and use the learning forum.

[Robert]

It's too late for Libertarianism, though I understand it's romantic appeal.

And history has tarnished the name of communism to the point that leftists need a new ideology with a new name and a new Leader if they're ever going to destroy capitalism.

Who knows? You could be ... Da Man.

[RGacky3]

They don't need a leader at all.

[hllymatterson]

Well, the thing is I am libertarian because, A. I hate governments telling me what to do B. believe in conspiracy theories and this shows how elites manipulate everything and all the corruption that the corporate whore media covers up. C. I love money and the luxuries and comforts it provides D. I want a capitalist society, and right now its an oligarchy, but once i become rich i dont care. E. Im a very good investor.

All in all my friend thinks i will like communism and be converted, What will be better about communism? This is a utopian ideal like libertarianism so how could this be implemented? How can you insure it doesn't turn into a tyrannical dictatorship and a bourgeoise political communist elite with their own wealth in mind doesn't develop? Checks and balances? I have seen lots of communist societies and not one has been successful. But I do like the idea of a utopian society though, maybe even like zeitegeist if it's ever possible. What scares me about communism is the abolishment of freedoms and tyranny. Maybe it could be done on a state level and not national and centralized? Maybe have one side of the world be communist and other side capitalist?

What is your vision of an ideal communist society? Why is it better than libertarianism?

[RGacky3]

A. I hate governments telling me what to do

As do we.


B. believe in conspiracy theories and this shows how elites manipulate everything and all the corruption that the corporate whore media covers

There is no conspiracy, you don't need a conspiracy when interests collide.


C. I love money and the luxuries and comforts it provides

I'd rather have more luxiries for more people.


D. I want a capitalist society, and right now its an oligarchy, but once i become rich i dont care.

A capitalist society IS an olagarchy, once you become rich, then you may not care, but don't try convince the rest of the people that its good for them.


E. Im a very good investor.


Well good luck, but that basically means your good at making money without contributing to society.


What is your vision of an ideal communist society? Why is it better than libertarianism?

All a communist society is, is democratic industry and a democratic economy, I consider myself a libertarian-socialist, so the 2 are not totally opposite.

[hllymatterson]

So, lets say I am have $5 million worth of assets. What happens to my money? Does it get confiscated? What about $1 million, or $500,000? How do you plan to topple the wealthy? Is their any underground movements doing it, if so are they being developed by people with alterior motives? Example: George Soros financing the occupy wall street movement and far left political commities for personal gain and michael moore making socialist documentaries for money being worth 200 million himself. Alterior motives of the organizers is what scares me.

How will there be devolopment and advancement when no one has advancement? Will doctors and nurses an economists be paid the same as a janitor? If so, what will be the motive to better yourself?

I like your comment about more luxuries for more people, it would be nice if there was enough resources for everyone to live in luxury, and to be honest i dont care about status symbol or the brand or being better than somebody else, i care about the quality.

How would the government be structured? And in my opinion steps need to be taken so it wouldn't turn into an orwellian nightmare.

[hllymatterson]

.

[RGacky3]

Probably not, what would probably happen is we'd have a corporate/buisiness structure that is set up democratically by the workers, and the national industries nationalized and community industries under democratic oversight by the ecommunity.

If you have money that does'nt get confiscated, only control over the means of production.

Compensation is democratic, so of coarse doctors will make a lot.

The government would be democratic.

[hllymatterson]

So how is that different from today besides the workers owning companies? If I own a bunch of houses that i rent to tenants will that be confiscated and given to the workers? If someone owns a company will the owner's shares be confiscated? What about superwealthy people and those that are currently wealthy? Will that be confiscated?

Im sorry about all these questions its just its new for me and am trying to get a feel of it.

PS. Your very good looking and I admire your physique.

[Zukunftsmusik]

Where's the restriction cavalry? They should have been here by now


If I own a bunch of houses that i rent to tenants will that be confiscated and given to the workers? If someone owns a company will the owner's shares be confiscated? What about superwealthy people and those that are currently wealthy? Will that be confiscated?


Pretty much, yes.



PS. Your very good looking and I admire your physique.

lol

When it comes to your view on communism as a utopic society, I think I'll write what another person usually writes on this forum (Though I don't agree with everything he writes): Communism isn't some paradise where everyone gets along, it's our tool/movement to 'crush' our class enemy. What do we want? Democratic control over the economy and the means of production. That means the workers (read: the masses, most people) control their own factories and society as a whole. that again means that we will have to fight those few who own the means of production and control the economy; the bourgeoisie, our 'class enemy'. Basically.

What conspiracy theories do you believe in then?

[The Teacher]

The question is this...do you want to be free?

Can you be free if a tiny percentage of the people control the entire economy?

I'm a good poker player, does than mean I couldn't lose everything at a card table if the luck runs against me? The same with investing, an unforseen event could wipe out your net worth. The billionaires won't suffer, you will.

Utopia in Greek means "no place." By definition a perfect society can't exist. But it is possible to have a better society. Having a better society means more freedom for everyone. If you are bound to serve an oligarchy then you aren't free. The aristocrats will be forced to give up their power eventually. No one knows when or how, but it will happen.

Think of feudalism. Great idea if your an aristo. For everyone else it sucks. Eventually the peasants have enough and something happens. It could be good, could be a mass slaughter and the peasants turn on each other. The point is to work towards the best possible revolution because it will happen one way or the other.

[hllymatterson]

What conspiracies do you believe in?: I believe that a cabal of people control the planet, they do so through contoling the economy, governments, religion, education, financial markets, the military, healthcare, the media, public opinion, etc. It is a very blood based organization that is so vast and highly efficent. I can elaborate for a while, its so complex it could be a subject in itself.


Also the whole ideology of communism was written by them. Karl Marx himself is a part of the moneyed family called the Rothschilds, who were at one time and may still be the wealthiest family to ever walk the planet. This family has also been financiang the green movement also for the carbon tax money. Karl Marx has rothschild blood because the originall patriarch of the family Nathan Mayer Rothschilld was married to Hannah Barent-Cohen, who's blood uncle was the great grandfather of Karl Marx.


Also the fact that George Soros is financing OccupyWallStreet makes me uneasy as well. And the fact that communist documentary maker Michael Moore is worth millions of dollars yet still supports communism. Communism seems to be to easily corruptable and infiltrated for personal gain.


And I don't think I could give up my assets. That would be really hard.

[The Teacher]

The question is this...do you want to be free?

Can you be free if a tiny percentage of the people control the entire economy?

I'm a good poker player, does than mean I couldn't lose everything at a card table if the luck runs against me? The same with investing, an unforseen event could wipe out your net worth. The billionaires won't suffer, you will.

Utopia in Greek means "no place." By definition a perfect society can't exist. But it is possible to have a better society. Having a better society means more freedom for everyone. If you are bound to serve an oligarchy then you aren't free. The aristocrats will be forced to give up their power eventually. No one knows when or how, but it will happen.

Think of feudalism. Great idea if your an aristo. For everyone else it sucks. Eventually the peasants have enough and something happens. It could be good, could be a mass slaughter and the peasants turn on each other. The point is to work towards the best possible revolution because it will happen one way or the other.

[Nox]

What conspiracies do you believe in?: I believe that a cabal of people control the planet, they do so through contoling the economy, governments, religion, education, financial markets, the military, healthcare, the media, public opinion, etc.

Those people are called the Bourgeoisie. The Capitalists. The people at the top of the pyramid.

[Zukunftsmusik]

What conspiracies do you believe in?: I believe that a cabal of people control the planet, they do so through contoling the economy, governments, religion, education, financial markets, the military, healthcare, the media, public opinion, etc. It is a very blood based organization that is so vast and highly efficent. I can elaborate for a while, its so complex it could be a subject in itself.


Also the whole ideology of communism was written by them. Karl Marx himself is a part of the moneyed family called the Rothschilds, who were at one time and may still be the wealthiest family to ever walk the planet. This family has also been financiang the green movement also for the carbon tax money. Karl Marx has rothschild blood because the originall patriarch of the family Nathan Mayer Rothschilld was married to Hannah Barent-Cohen, who's blood uncle was the great grandfather of Karl Marx.


Also the fact that George Soros is financing OccupyWallStreet makes me uneasy as well. And the fact that communist documentary maker Michael Moore is worth millions of dollars yet still supports communism. Communism seems to be to easily corruptable and infiltrated for personal gain.


And I don't think I could give up my assets. That would be really hard.

Ehhhhhhh? Proof please. If Marx is one of them, why would he create a system to overthrow those in power? Please, this makes no sense.

How does this cabal control everything? Why do they do it? How are they efficient? If it's blood based; whose blood is it based on? Why do they control everything but let others be their 'puppets'? To make it look like someone else is in charge? What do they earn on that?

[The Teacher]

Believing that a small group of wealthy families control the planet isn't a conspiracy theory, its common sense.

Thinking that these people have been plotting together for hundreds of years to take over something that they already own is just stupid.

P.S. Micheal Moore is not a communist. He's not even that far left. He's a moderately liberal democrat who happens to buck the party line sometimes. He never said that no one should make money, he's against people who steal it from everyone else.

[Zukunftsmusik]

Those people are called the Bourgeoisie. The Capitalists. The people at the top of the pyramid.

And their power isn't blood based, it's based on class. And they can be overthrown once you realise how and why they stay in power, instead of believing in some bullshit conspiracy.

[Nox]

This poster was made a very long time ago, but it applies just as much today.

Realising the truth in this exact image was one of the reasons that sparked my interest in the left.

http://www.prosebeforehos.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/pyramidofcapitalism.jpg

[Nox]

And their power isn't blood based, it's based on class. And they can be overthrown once you realise how and why they stay in power, instead of believing in some bullshit conspiracy.

She believes that there are people at the top that control everything, I pointed out that those people are the bourgeoisie.

That's not a conspiracy, that's common sense.

[Zukunftsmusik]

I can't see it :/

[Nox]

http://www.prosebeforehos.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/pyramidofcapitalism.jpg

[Zukunftsmusik]

She believes that there are people at the top that control everything, I pointed out that those people are the bourgeoisie.

That's not a conspiracy, that's common sense.

Of course not, but that's not what i meant. I meant what hyllmatterson believes in is a conspiracy.

EDIT: Ah, that poster, yes.

[Nox]

Of course not, but that's not what i meant. I meant what hyllmatterson believes in is a conspiracy.

EDIT: Ah, that poster, yes.

She thinks its a secret underground society, but in reality it's the rich 1% who control most of the world's wealth.

[Zukunftsmusik]

And I never said otherwise.

[Nox]

I'm not saying you did ;)

[hllymatterson]

"Ehhhhhhh? Proof please. If Marx is one of them, why would he create a system to overthrow those in power? Please, this makes no sense."

It isnt supposed to make sense. He created the system so all free maket activity would be abolished and instead be controlled by the government. Also so the cold war would happen, they controlled stalin, mao zedong, etc. And they are the government, so hence they have control over the country, or region, or planet.


"How does this cabal control everything?"

Control freaks, they could give up all their wealth and not care as long as they had their power.


"Why do they do it?"
Same as above, and they are occult in nature and are apart of the world's mystery schools and apart of all races, all unite to dominate humanity. Maybe they are following a plan. These people are always on both sides of the conflict. Read William Cooper's book "Behold a pale horse."


"How are they efficient?" They meet in secret in meetings like the Bilderberg group and the council of 300 meet all the time "The Trilateral commision" Here is a youtube video of JFK's speech a day before he was assasinated. He wasnt assasinated just because of this speech, he was producing legislastion to get rid of the federal reserve, which is privately owned. Type in "JFK Speech Secret Societies" it wont let me post links

There are 13 bloodlines, no one knows for certain whos they are. They believe they are descended from Jesus Christ and his disciples. They are the enlightened ones. The "Illuminati" Here is the list, and kennedy is a part of it, and it is thought kennedy broke off on his own, or that the kennedys tried to overthrow the other families along with the Onassis. Type in "Illuminati 13 bloodlines" Also the Vatican, The Black Nobility, and the British and other European Monarchies are tied into it.


"Why do they control everything but let others be their 'puppets'?"
Great question, gives a layer of protection, and there is many layers. The puppets are there so they can throw one out and replace it if society doesnt like it and brainwash them into liking the new ones. Kind of like Democratic/Republican.


"To make it look like someone else is in charge"
Yes


"What do they earn on that?"
Knowing they own and control the entire planet, they dont care about money, they only have it because it is power. They view us as their cattle. And believe we are inferior and are literal animals, or we would have risen up to them by now and overthrown them, and they push us and taunt us more and more to amplify and demonstrate their power over us. They are sadistic and want to take pleasure away from everyone. They have been planning this for thousands of years.


If global communism is implemented, they will still live in secret luxury, even if it is literally underground in bunkers, while we suffer up here with no freedom.

[Nox]

If global communism is implemented, they will still live in secret luxury, even if it is literally underground in bunkers, while we suffer up here with no freedom.

Firstly, it wouldn't be Communism if there were people living in luxury at the exploitation of others labour, that would be Beaurecratic Collectivism - even the USSR didn't stoop that low.

Secondly, Communism is the highest form of freedom there is.

[DeBon]

Well, Communism isn't the nanny state with millions of regulations on your daily life that you might think it is. You have all the personal freedoms of your ideal libertarian society, from being able to voice your opinion to have yourself a big ole' rifle. Ever Karl Marx criticized the institutional bureaucracy.

And another misconception to deal with is that a Communist society would have the biggest baddest Red Army. Most people associate Communism with a bunch of red banners being hung off buildings with pictures of revolutionary leaders and Karl Marx on them, with soldiers marching with their red flags and tanks. This just isn't rite. That's not Communism at all. Heck, even Marx didn't like the soldiers and police.

[hllymatterson]

"Firstly, it wouldn't be Communism if there were people living in luxury at the exploitation of others labour, that would be Beaurecratic Collectivism - even the USSR didn't stoop that low."

You would think it is communism because you wouldn't know about them living in luxury. And people in USSR did live in luxury, look at stalin's lifestyle, and of his cronies.

"Secondly Communism is the highest form of freedom there is"
Depends on the breed. Problem is it isnt totally free. You are restricted from enterprising yourself, i like the idea of self reliance, if you cant rely on yourself and act like an animal, then i will take you on my flock and you will work for me, no one if forcing you to work for me.
And if these people will do communism it will be an ugly fascist breed.

[The Teacher]

Guys. You can't argue with crazy. The person making the positive claim has the burden of proof. So....where is it?

And yes, a presidential assassination was arrainged on ONE DAY's notice because of a speech.

[The Teacher]

"Firstly, it wouldn't be Communism if there were people living in luxury at the exploitation of others labour, that would be Beaurecratic Collectivism - even the USSR didn't stoop that low."

You would think it is communism because you wouldn't know about them living in luxury. And people in USSR did live in luxury, look at stalin's lifestyle, and of his cronies.

"Secondly Communism is the highest form of freedom there is"
Depends on the breed. Problem is it isnt totally free. You are restricted from enterprising yourself, i like the idea of self reliance, if you cant rely on yourself and act like an animal, then i will take you on my flock and you will work for me, no one if forcing you to work for me.
And if these people will do communism it will be an ugly fascist breed.

You believe in self reliance and think a global conspiracy controls the world. Does that make sense to anyone?

[hllymatterson]

"And another misconception to deal with is that a Communist society would have the biggest baddest Red Army. Most people associate Communism with a bunch of red banners being hung off buildings with pictures of revolutionary leaders and Karl Marx on them, with soldiers marching with their red flags and tanks. This just isn't rite. That's not Communism at all. Heck, even Marx didn't like the soldiers and police. "

Utopian communism will never happen as long as these people are alive, they are experts at subversion and infiltration and have thousands of years of experience to back it up. Killing all of them might not even work, I dont really believe this myself, but supposedly there are beings above them also, who aren't human. Sounds crazy and unreal, and probably is. But I dont doubt anything anymore.

[The Teacher]

I love this stuff.

A vast, ultra secret conspiracy cloacked in so many layers of subterfuge that it could only be cracked by a random dude on the internet. :laugh:

[hllymatterson]

"Guys. You can't argue with crazy. The person making the positive claim has the burden of proof. So....where is it?"

The CFR, a trialateral commision satelite, writes the economic and foreign policies of the US.

You can't have total proof, these people are totally protected through layers of secret bullshit. these are people are so high up in the clouds, that they call multimillionaires and billionaires with no or limited power "Petty Money Trash."

[DeBon]

Utopian communism will never happen as long as these people are alive, they are experts at subversion and infiltration and have thousands of years of experience to back it up. Killing all of them might not even work, I dont really believe this myself, but supposedly there are beings above them also, who aren't human. Sounds crazy and unreal, and probably is. But I dont doubt anything anymore.

Well first off, Communism isn't a warm fuzzy utopia. It's not perfect. It's just a hell of a lot better than the status system.

Secondly, you lost me. Are you suggesting we kill every marine? Marines can become productive workers once they are educated. But I really don't understand what you just said.

[hllymatterson]

go to infowars, a great news outlet, they dont concentrate on the families as much as US problems with tyranny, but they do expose the rockefeller clan and their CFR mafia doing things that are tyrannical as they please.

[hllymatterson]

"Secondly, you lost me. Are you suggesting we kill every marine?"

NOOOOO!!!!! Please read previous posts before butting in. I was talking about the conspirators. The string pullers.

[The Teacher]

There are actual conspiracies in the world. You don't have to make stuff up. Why would anyone work for such a group? If what you say is true then there is no way to move yourself up to the top of the ladder, so the pyramid scheme collapses.

[hllymatterson]

"Ehhhhhhh? Proof please. If Marx is one of them, why would he create a system to overthrow those in power? Please, this makes no sense."

It isnt supposed to make sense. He created the system so all free maket activity would be abolished and instead be controlled by the government. Also so the cold war would happen, they controlled stalin, mao zedong, etc. And they are the government, so hence they have control over the country, or region, or planet.


"How does this cabal control everything?"

Control freaks, they could give up all their wealth and not care as long as they had their power.


"Why do they do it?"
Same as above, and they are occult in nature and are apart of the world's mystery schools and apart of all races, all unite to dominate humanity. Maybe they are following a plan. These people are always on both sides of the conflict. Read William Cooper's book "Behold a pale horse."


"How are they efficient?" They meet in secret in meetings like the Bilderberg group and the council of 300 meet all the time "The Trilateral commision" Here is a youtube video of JFK's speech a day before he was assasinated. He wasnt assasinated just because of this speech, he was producing legislastion to get rid of the federal reserve, which is privately owned. Type in "JFK Speech Secret Societies" it wont let me post links

There are 13 bloodlines, no one knows for certain whos they are. They believe they are descended from Jesus Christ and his disciples. They are the enlightened ones. The "Illuminati" Here is the list, and kennedy is a part of it, and it is thought kennedy broke off on his own, or that the kennedys tried to overthrow the other families along with the Onassis. Type in "Illuminati 13 bloodlines" Also the Vatican, The Black Nobility, and the British and other European Monarchies are tied into it.


"Why do they control everything but let others be their 'puppets'?"
Great question, gives a layer of protection, and there is many layers. The puppets are there so they can throw one out and replace it if society doesnt like it and brainwash them into liking the new ones. Kind of like Democratic/Republican.


"To make it look like someone else is in charge"
Yes


"What do they earn on that?"
Knowing they own and control the entire planet, they dont care about money, they only have it because it is power. They view us as their cattle. And believe we are inferior and are literal animals, or we would have risen up to them by now and overthrown them, and they push us and taunt us more and more to amplify and demonstrate their power over us. They are sadistic and want to take pleasure away from everyone. They have been planning this for thousands of years.


If global communism is implemented, they will still live in secret luxury, even if it is literally underground in bunkers, while we suffer up here with no freedom.

[RGacky3]

So how is that different from today besides the workers owning companies? If I own a bunch of houses that i rent to tenants will that be confiscated and given to the workers? If someone owns a company will the owner's shares be confiscated? What about superwealthy people and those that are currently wealthy? Will that be confiscated?


Rent is not the same as productive industry, housing is either owned by the inhabitants, or owned collectively by the tennants under socialism.

As for shares, some might disagree but I have no problem with people having shares in companies, but the workes should still distribute and control the surplus.

As for the super-wealthy? Probably some of it would be confiscated, but thats not the most important thing.

The whole basis of socialism is the means of production under worker control and the economy under democratic control.

The other stuff is stuff that different socialists think differently on.


PS. Your very good looking and I admire your physique.

thank you, although who knows I might have a discusting face.


Depends on the breed. Problem is it isnt totally free. You are restricted from enterprising yourself, i like the idea of self reliance, if you cant rely on yourself and act like an animal, then i will take you on my flock and you will work for me, no one if forcing you to work for me.
And if these people will do communism it will be an ugly fascist breed.

Nothing is stopping you from enterprising, what is beint stopped is state sanctioned property laws.

ALso look at Capitalism, Capitalism is a system that cannot function for long, it requires purpetual growth, which is impossible, and leads to more and more wealth inequality which ends up crashing the system, its ultimately unsustainable.

[hllymatterson]

Why were my posts deleted?

[hllymatterson]

Never mind, there is multiple pages.

[hllymatterson]

"A vast, ultra secret conspiracy cloacked in so many layers of subterfuge that it could only be cracked by a random dude on the internet"

This has been known for hundreds of years by many intellectuals, now with the internet people are finding out, but it will never be official unless the establishment endorses them institutionally and through the news. They are the establisment and the heart and brain of the planet.

[hllymatterson]

"There are actual conspiracies in the world." exactly

"You don't have to make stuff up." I'm not, its fact and all over the internet and in books.



"Why would anyone work for such a group?"
Money and petty power if they arent related to the family, if related then they are working for their families influence

"If what you say is true then there is no way to move yourself up to the top of the ladder, so the pyramid scheme collapses"
exactly, the positions are inherited by a blood relative. and it never collapses since the places are taken by the descendant.

[Zukunftsmusik]

Oh boy.



It isnt supposed to make sense.
Here I think you're right. This whole illuminati thing doesn't make any sense. At all.



Control freaks, they could give up all their wealth and not care as long as they had their power.

The question was how



"Why do they do it?"
Same as above, and they are occult in nature and are apart of the world's mystery schools and apart of all races, all unite to dominate humanity. Maybe they are following a plan. These people are always on both sides of the conflict. Read William Cooper's book "Behold a pale horse."

Why be on both sides of 'the conflict' (I would've added an s there)? If they control it together, why fight each other on the same time?



They meet in secret in meetings like the Bilderberg group and the council of 300 meet all the time
Wow, that sure sounds effective.



"What do they earn on that?"
Knowing they own and control the entire planet, they dont care about money, they only have it because it is power. They view us as their cattle. And believe we are inferior and are literal animals, or we would have risen up to them by now and overthrown them, and they push us and taunt us more and more to amplify and demonstrate their power over us. They are sadistic and want to take pleasure away from everyone. They have been planning this for thousands of years.


The question still stands. What do they earn on having us as their cattle? What do they earn on taking pleasure away from everyone? What do they earn on being sadistic? What is their goal? To remove all pleasure and keep us as their cattle? WHY? What are they going to use us as cattle for? These people seem as irrational as you.

Oh, and one more thing: Why do you happen to know this secret plan? Because, secret is kinda like, you know, when people don't know about it?

[hllymatterson]

To Haust.

These people are evil and sadistic and derive pleasure from it as a serial killer derives pleasure from killing people. Since the Roman times war has always been ritualized slaughter. They play both sides to keep people divided, and they like playing god. They take your pleasure away because they can, and it enhances the value of their pleasure. If they could(considering how stupid and gullible humanity is it might actually happen within a century or 2) they would police your thoughts and outlaw all pleasure, even your orgasms.

It is like a prominent business man or politician is dealing drugs through many puppets, you can never prove they are dealing if they control it through secret means where it is impossible to reveal they are controling it.

[Zukunftsmusik]

He created the system so all free maket activity would be abolished and instead be controlled by the government.

That's not communism. Common ownership =/= government/state ownership

EDIT: And why would they want the cold war to happen? Why did they want it to end, for that matter?

[hllymatterson]

Doing this amplifies their elitism and godliness I guess, no one can fully know what goes through their heads.

[hllymatterson]

"That's not communism. Common ownership =/= government/state ownership"

exactly, its an illusion. They make you believe you are a part of the government when in reality they control it and the officials are their puppets, refreshed each time there is an election. They own the government, yet lie to you an teach you you own the government.

[ZeroNowhere]

Did they cause the Long Depression, Great Depression, the cyclical crises prior to those, and the current economic crisis?

[Zukunftsmusik]

To Haust.

These people are evil and sadistic and derive pleasure from it as a serial killer derives pleasure from killing people. Since the Roman times war has always been ritualized slaughter. They play both sides to keep people divided, and they like playing god. They take your pleasure away because they can, and it enhances the value of their pleasure. If they could(considering how stupid and gullible humanity is it might actually happen within a century or 2) they would police your thoughts and outlaw all pleasure, even your orgasms.

It is like a prominent business man or politician is dealing drugs through many puppets, you can never prove they are dealing if they control it through secret means where it is impossible to reveal they are controling it.

Oh noez, not my orgasms!

Seriously though. Very few people find pleasure in being sadistic. And this pleasure seldom follows genes or 'blood lines'. So I really can't imagine that some family of serial killer-like fanatics would want to control the world and be sadists just because they like it.

[hllymatterson]

Yes, they cause everything. JD Rockefeller, and JP Morgan, their agent caused the great depression through their margin calls on loans.

And yes they control wall street and most financial institiutions in the world, they own the federal reserve, the federal reserve is actually private. They control is thorugh paper, which isnt even backed by gold anymore, it is backed by stupidity of the people that accept it as payment.

[The Teacher]

Still waiting for the tiniest shred of proof. Or at least an argument that makes a lick of sense.

[hllymatterson]

To Haust, yes they do. They want to control everything, and are very inbred, which usually makes pyschopaths. Inbreds were the ones that would take over lands and make eeveryone serfs, below them and were very sadistic. They have a lust for control and being a god, its in their blood.

[The Teacher]

The Fed is a private public partnership with many member banks. Its actions are controlled by a chairman who is appointed by political representatives. Does your phantom cartel control the outcome of every single election in the US? How?

What about central banks with no private membership? How do they control those?

How do they control the DPRK? Or other isolated countries? You think KJI is taking orders from a bunch of bankers? What could they offer him that he doesn't already have?

[hllymatterson]

To the teacher, say what you want, you have to research it yourself and there is no establiment-approved instutional truth. It comes from research and putting two and two together. No one can prove a conspiracy, and these people have their evidence well hidden and destroyed, and can never be brought to justice since they are the "justice" they are "Government" They are "I am who am".

[The Teacher]

We realize that conspiracies depend on secrecy, right? If more than two people know something then its not a secret. How could this last for "thousands of years" if people know about it? How could such a thing even start?

[Zukunftsmusik]

Allright, then. Now, give us some proof for this craziness.

Wait, let me guess: "It's common sense?" "Everybody can see this if they just look around, duh!"? Or, "Here's a link to some obscure youtube video, if you don't belive it now, too bad for you"?

[hllymatterson]

Yes they do, teacher, research it yourself, im not going to spoonfeed it to you, this is a whole subject within itself, like english or history, and requires lots of study and investigation

The fed answers to no one, to answer your question, and yeah in theory the congress can disolve them, but that never happens, and they never open their books. Research how the fed is private.

[The Teacher]

To the teacher, say what you want, you have to research it yourself and there is no establiment-approved instutional truth. It comes from research and putting two and two together. No one can prove a conspiracy, and these people have their evidence well hidden and destroyed, and can never be brought to justice since they are the "justice" they are "Government" They are "I am who am".

You've done the research for me. Where is your proof? Where is a sane argument? They hide their evidence so well that anybody with a computer can find them out? Great conspiracy.

[Revolution starts with U]

I want a capitalist society, and right now its an oligarchy, but once i become rich i dont care. E. Im a very good investor.
Well, you're probably the most honest libertarian I have seen :lol:

All in all my friend thinks i will like communism and be converted, What will be better about communism? This is a utopian ideal like libertarianism so how could this be implemented?
By massive people's uprisings crushing the bourgiousie power structure and strengthening the democratic method.

How can you insure it doesn't turn into a tyrannical dictatorship and a bourgeoise political communist elite with their own wealth in mind doesn't develop? Checks and balances?
Abolish the state and occupy the workplaces. This is what any revolutionary, of any system (even.. no.. especially libertarian capitalism) will have to worry about. To beat it takes constant vigiliance by revolutionary minded people.

I have seen lots of communist societies and not one has been successful.
Well... not one has been free, or communism... but it really depends on what you mean by successful. In Cuba you can get a PhD free of charge, and they are one of the largest seeders of doctors around the world. Homelesness virtually didn't exist in the USSR (Soviet officials actually didn't believe American diplomats when they would talk about the homeless problem in the states, I have been told). The Scandanavian countries have tried socialized capitalism, and it seems to be working out for them.
The thing is, you have never seen a communist society.

But I do like the idea of a utopian society though, maybe even like zeitegeist if it's ever possible.
We're not utopists. Capitalism has an ingrown contradiction that will either lead to global catastrophic collapse or the expropriation of the means of production by the working class. Anything else, even a global fascist dictatorship, merely staves off the inevitable.
This is what I don't get about the conspiracy crowd. Do you really think a global dictatorship could last? Governments suck at everything. That shit would fall apart in a matter of years.

What scares me about communism is the abolishment of freedoms and tyranny.
That's only communism to leninists. To the rest of us, socialism is true freedom.



What is your vision of an ideal communist society? Why is it better than libertarianism?

Socialists invented the term "libertarian" so... I mean this is really an unanswerable question. Why is it better than faux libertarianism (libertarian capitalism)? Because it is the rule over society by the people, rather than the powerful elite. Lib-cap, or anything that maintains the capitalist mode of production, will maintain the dialectic of capitalism. The elite will get powerful while the people starve, and the people will come to cut off the heads of the elites. Therein the elites will have to rely upon state institutions (whether public or private; the police, the army, private defense agencys, w/e) to crush their class enemy.
We've tried this method and it has led to democratic "socialism", fascism, and corporatism.

"Guys. You can't argue with crazy. The person making the positive claim has the burden of proof. So....where is it?"

The CFR, a trialateral commision satelite, writes the economic and foreign policies of the US.

You can't have total proof, these people are totally protected through layers of secret bullshit. these are people are so high up in the clouds, that they call multimillionaires and billionaires with no or limited power "Petty Money Trash."
The CFR actually allows just about anybody in. You could sign up to volunteer with them right now. I mean... Katie Kouric is in it.. come on...:lol:

[The Teacher]

Yes they do, teacher, research it yourself, im not going to spoonfeed it to you, this is a whole subject within itself, like english or history, and requires lots of study and investigation

The fed answers to no one, to answer your question, and yeah in theory the congress can disolve them, but that never happens, and they never open their books. Research how the fed is private.

I have researched this all very carefully. I have come to a vastly different conclusion. So spoon feed me. IF you have an argument

[hllymatterson]

They control elections by controling the who enters the primaries in their parties, and the media machine controls the public opinion of who to pick. And they maintain the donkey/elephant status quo. Infact these lowly animals were chosen as mascots to humiliate us, and rightfully so since that is what we act like, we are their gift to use as they please. The elections are mainly decided at bilderberg, the bohemian grove, and through other secret means.

Listen to JFK's speech, he explains it quite well. This world was designed for them though, and you fighting for them by ignoring them is as natural as a baby knowing drink his mom's breast milk, this is useless, and they are in complete undisputable control.

[The Teacher]

So they elected Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders?

[The Teacher]

You realize that I can take all of your arguments, insert the word "aliens" and it doesn't sound any crazier?

[hllymatterson]

"The CFR actually allows just about anybody in. You could sign up to volunteer with them right now. I mean... Katie Kouric is in it.. come on..."

No you can't, you have to have the same opinions as them, and they recruit talent that will suit their goals. They follow the CFR principles and in return are not kicked out, and are able to network within the group, and there is a hiearchy in the group.

[ВАЛТЕР]

I assumed that you were here to learn, but rather you are here to spread crack pot conspiracy theories which hold no water when looked at with any logic.

How did these elites come to power?
Capitalism and exploitation of the working class

Who are these elites?
The rich (Bourgeoisie)

Is that a large group of people?
Yes, it sounds like it to me.

So you believe that they are in some super secret Illuminati group?

But wait, wouldn't these rich people still be in power whether they were in such a group or not? Why yes, yes they would be.
So what makes more sense? That they simply maximize profit by exploitation and control over the means of production and therefore control society, or that this is some planned conspiracy that has been taking shape for the past thousand years in men in black robes.

Also, you mentioned info wars as a viable source of news. How would this secret all powerful group allow such information to be leaked from some fellow named Alex Jones? Wouldn't they get rid of him before he even got a chance to spread their secrets? Oh wait, that means that either A) Alex Jones is part of this secret society and they need him to somehow mislead the masses. or B) He is bourgeoisie in the sense that he exploits peoples fears and makes massive sums of money doing it by selling books, DVDs, coffee mugs, etc etc. so he needs to make people believe that such a group exists in order to maximize profits. A logical business move.

Sorry but these conspiracy theories are so full of holes and complex that they fall apart on their own with any critical analysis. So many people would have to be involved in this that it is logistically impossible to ensure that everyone is happy and no ones exposes them.

[The Teacher]

So they pick who controls US politics, including Kennedy, and then have him shot less than halfway through his term? Makes plenty of sense. You'd think after thousands of years these guys would be better at picking puppets.

[Valdemar]

Hi there,
First thing first, I really don't want to sound like a&&, but are you serious? I'm puzzled. Only thing missing to be perfect in your theory is David Ike and His Deamons, Angles,Aliens...
Anyways, basically you are right, but it is not conspiracy theory, Wealthy corporations ARE ruling the world, and they use tools to do it (media etc.).

About Communism:
Communism is the End Phase, and even if tomorrow revolution happens, you will probably not see the Communism- End Phase. But that does not mean that after the revolution there would not be better life for normal people.

Maybe some ideas of Communism are strange to you, or you even think they are impossible, that is because you grow up in different society. Imagine that you have time machine, and you go to the past and tell some feudal lord about capitalism, or to tell some peasant about Capitalism, he would think its Utopia.

People say Communism is bad because they saw of roughly 50 years of it. In fact it was infant, just born and in bandages. Also Bare in mind that Capitalist block won, and "Victors write History", so take that in mind when you hear about how bad was Communism. Another thing is, which they don't want to tell you, that it was not Communism, but transitional period which is called Socialism.

You must agree Capitalism is bad, it is bad... People are suffering around the globe, bilions of people of hunger, shells, poverty, starvation, homless, no medical service, children work on farms, plantations, mines, girls sell their body, boys sell their body, people kill people for money, people bomb people for money, people torture people for money and i could go on and on, list all the horrors of the world which are done because of money and current system. That is the world of Today.
But now imagine the world when Capitalism was born, when all over west world people did not work only 8h but much more, did not have social security, children worked and girls who lived in "homeless Children homes" were sold to prostitution by its owners, and much much worse things. But then Capitalism evolved, it got Humman face at home, It became Imperialism, the highest stage of Capitalism.

So, to get back on Communism, it needs to pass the transitional stage, Socialism, people need to get rid in that period of old system values as greed?envy?materialism(object fetishism) and etc. They need to give time so Communism can evolve.
Also, there are diffrient belifes how to achive Socialism/Communism, maybe you do not agree with Lenin-Stalin-Mao, maybe you are fond of Democratic Socialism or you are not Revolutionary leftist at all and more like Social Democrat. There are diffrent tendecies....

Communism is ideal, its the goal, its noble. It has got the end and beginning. It is from People for the People!

Now to address your egoist attitude, because its main thing which does not allow you to understand Communism. Like i said before, Communism is about helping people, helping yourself, helping other and helping next generation so it will not live in chains.
If you are egoist, you cannot be Communist, so excuse me, how can you be so ignorant and care only about yourself? How would you feel if your Brother, Mother would suffer(poverty, prostitution, shells etc.) Ask yourself, or that you would be forced to prostitution, excuse me, but that is the reality in which majority of people live. And it is no one to blame but Capitalism. (again, excuse me for such harsh thing, but world is not fairy tale)
I have labeled you egoist, because you said that you do not care about others, and you would care less if you had money. (paraphrase)
I have also feeling that you give a lot on blood, dynasty, bloodline, maybe even nation or ethnicity...So
One day you will have children, right? (or maybe not, who cares about children, its important you have fun?) So why not making change today for the Children of tomorrow, so they could enjoy and live in better world? And those children will have their children, so when you are fighting for today, you are fighting for yours grandchildren, and those grandchildren will have children, so you will fight...You get my point?

// I'm just expressing my view of Communism and My interpretation of the world and communism

(Please read my Wall of Text and say what you think)

PS: Pozz Valter, javio bi se ja na Zapadni Balkan forum, al štaš kad sam nazadan :) Pozz svima na/sa Zapadnog Balkana.

[hllymatterson]

I gave you all you need, you come to your own conclusions. They are behind everything. Even 9/11, even if it wasnt controlled demolition, al qaeda is a proxy organization of cia, and it is ridiculous to think a $600 million a year guerrila group trafficking drugs cant be defeated with 120 billion in military power. 9/11 is being used to strip away everyones liberties, take away gun rights, and set up a TSA surveillance society in the western world. I wouldnt put this past the cia who sells poison(cocaine) to its own people.

[hllymatterson]

Goodbye, all your responses were meant to be, and are as natural as animal instincts, i will be sticking to the info wars forums.

PS. Communism is a "crackpot" ideology itself. Tell someone on the street you want global communism and they will call you that. That is what the mainstream views you as.

Goodbye everyone, and good luck, you will most definitely need it. :)

[The Teacher]

Except that money is not the determining factor in guerilla war. If you never understand anything else, understand this. Guerilla warfare is what you use when you can't win but refuse to stop fighting. If you haven't discredited yourself before, you have now.

Gun rights have increased since 9/11. I can walk into any gun shop and come out with both an m-16 knockoff and a perfectly legal stock attachment that makes it full auto. What liberties are you talking about?

[ВАЛТЕР]

Thanks for looking at this with any logic at all, it was a real treat to watch you rant and rave on the magical NWO secret Illuminati group which has been in power since 1000BC...:laugh:

[The Teacher]

Goodbye, all your responses were meant to be, and are as natural as animal instincts, i will be sticking to the info wars forums.

PS. Communism is a "crackpot" ideology itself. Tell someone on the street you want global communism and they will call you that. That is what the mainstream views you as.

Goodbye everyone, and good luck, you will most definitely need it. :)

What do people on the street call you when you spout this stuff off?

[Zukunftsmusik]

You haven't at all given us what we need: proof. Just saying 'look it up' or 'you have to study it to become as crazy as me' isn't proof. GIVE US PROOF GODDAMMIT!

And if these people are inherently crazy sadists, why not just be sadists, instead of making out some plan so that their great-great-great-great-grandson can be preying on us in the future?

[hllymatterson]

"What do people on the street call you when you spout this stuff off?"

I don't tell other people, only on the internet, because i dont care. It can never be overthrown since it is written into the fabric of the planet. I am going to go about my daily life and make as much money as i can and live a luxurious life because i am not a lazy communist who are too lazy to work for themselves and have to but into other peoples ventures and take their resources. Rely on yourself, i dont have to hire your lazy ass.

Once and for all goodbye, ban my account if you want.

[ВАЛТЕР]

You seem to know next to nothing of how the world functions either politically or economically. Have you even looked at your arguments critically? They literally fall apart, by themselves.

"Oh, it's not supposed to make sense!" :laugh:

Have fun listening to Alex Jones who somehow magically has escaped the wrath of this all powerful organization which can kill him at a moments notice.

[Zukunftsmusik]

It can never be overthrown since it is written into the fabric of the planet.
Wow.



I am going to go about my daily life and make as much money as i can and live a luxurious life because i am not a lazy communist who are too lazy to work for themselves and have to but into other peoples ventures and take their resources. Rely on yourself, i dont have to hire your lazy ass.


Okay, so you believe that Illuminati controls the world, but it doesn't matter because you're going to live my life anyways? Whats the point in believing this bullshit if it even doesn't matter for you or anyone else?

[Revolution starts with U]

"The CFR actually allows just about anybody in. You could sign up to volunteer with them right now. I mean... Katie Kouric is in it.. come on..."

No you can't, you have to have the same opinions as them, and they recruit talent that will suit their goals. They follow the CFR principles and in return are not kicked out, and are able to network within the group, and there is a hiearchy in the group.

http://www.cfr.org/about/career_opportunities/internships.html



The Council on Foreign Relations’ Internship Program offers outstanding volunteer opportunities for college students, graduate students, and graduates focusing on international relations and who are pursuing a career in foreign policy or a related field.
Interns are recruited year-round on a semester basis to volunteer in both the New York and Washington, DC, offices. An intern’s volunteer duties generally consist of program coordination, research, editing, and writing. The internships are unpaid but provide a small stipend upon successful completion to offset transportation expenses.


It seems all you need to join is a passion for foreign policy, and a knowledge of HTML/XML.

Now.. that was literally the least important part of my original post...

[ВАЛТЕР]

This person is hilarious. I wish she would stay so we can make fun of her crappy theories about the magical elite.:laugh:

[Revolution starts with U]

"What do people on the street call you when you spout this stuff off?"

I don't tell other people, only on the internet, because i dont care. It can never be overthrown since it is written into the fabric of the planet. I am going to go about my daily life and make as much money as i can and live a luxurious life because i am not a lazy communist who are too lazy to work for themselves and have to but into other peoples ventures and take their resources. Rely on yourself, i dont have to hire your lazy ass.

Once and for all goodbye, ban my account if you want.

1) Isn't that exactly what they want you to do?
2) I worked full time self-employment for 7 years (and full time in self-employment usually means 12hrs + a day 7 days a week)
3) You're probably going to work for a wage, wherein you won't be working for yourself

I mean, just stop and look at what you are saying "there's a global conspiracy, look it up. They control the world, and all the world is capitalist. So Im going to become a capitalist and help them rule the world."
Nice logic bro...

[ВАЛТЕР]

http://weblogs.wpix.com/news/lionel/tin-foil-hat.jpg

> Pic Related (It's OP)

[hllymatterson]

I'm back I guess. Listen, Rev strts wit u, I work for myself, and my family works for ourselves, we are in the shipping container leasing business and also do have a portfolio of all kinds from refridgerated intermodal units to simple cargo TEUs. My father started this business with a small amount in 2003, now we have over 50 units.

And on the CFR, that is internship in that link, not membership, you can only be a member thorough getting at least 2 recommendation letters from cfr people and doing something for the international communty, which is harder than it sounds, like a diplomat or a very prestiogous journalist, a fortune 500 executive, or a businessman who makes at least a six figure donation, they love having journalists in their set.

[hllymatterson]

Batep, dont forget the establishment puts us all in the same category as that idiot in the picture

[Zukunftsmusik]

Batep, dont forget the establishment puts us all in the same category as that idiot in the picture

And they have a very good reason to do so.

[Revolution starts with U]

Ya, so you start an internship and make friends with a member... thats how all clubs work :D

Ok, since you work hard, and I work hard, can we just admit that not all socialists are lazy, and not all lazy people are socialists? Do you have any idea how many "free market, pick yourself up by your own bootstraps" stooges I know on disability when they don't need it? (Two is the answer :lol:)

Im not saying there isn't a "conspiracy." I just think it is one of the most open conspiracies in the world. Anyone with a desire to get rich, and who doesn't mind exploiting the common people, is free to join. They would take you, with your "I know it's oligarchy but once I am rich I don't care" in a second!
I mean, you can see yourself that they have both Clinton and Bush. And, if the conspiracy is as powerful as you say, they elected Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders. Obviously they care not at all about your politics. They just want people who want to get rich and maintain the capitalist superstructure.
Most of us here are not supporters of the USSR. We're not going to unilatterally demonize them like the bourgie press does. But it was no system I am in support of. We want to see economic democracy.

I am trying to get across to you that this "conspiracy" is the capitalist system itself. Regardless of the involvement of the international finance class, this is capitalism. You wanting to get rich at the expense of everyone else plays right into their hands.

[hllymatterson]

Then rise up against it, are you animals that you can not? If you act like animals, you will be treated as such, and exploited.

And rich people dont all conspire as these people do, they just like living their lives in luxury, and could care less about the outside world, the 13 families do care and only care about power.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Your arguments eat themselves...:laugh:

[Zukunftsmusik]

Then rise up against it, are you animals that you can not? If you act like animals, you will be treated as such, and exploited.


That's why we're communists!

EDIT: Because we do exactly that: Rise up!

[Revolution starts with U]

And yet they look upon the rich like you, as you say, as "petty money rich" or w/e you said.... so congratulations on playing right into their hands :rolleyes:
You're going to exploit your workers in order to get rich and... then what? Life goes on as normal? So you're fine with the system, as long as you can make a buck?
How is that not doing exactly what they want you to do?
Look, I used to get into the conspiracy culture a lot too. But then I realized that it's just the status quo. They don't care about your politics, they just want their hand in the pot.
As long as we give them a pot to put their hands in, they will have us by the balls.

[ВАЛТЕР]

I assumed that you were here to learn, but rather you are here to spread crack pot conspiracy theories which hold no water when looked at with any logic.

How did these elites come to power?
Capitalism and exploitation of the working class

Who are these elites?
The rich (Bourgeoisie)

Is that a large group of people?
Yes, it sounds like it to me.

So you believe that they are in some super secret Illuminati group?

But wait, wouldn't these rich people still be in power whether they were in such a group or not? Why yes, yes they would be.
So what makes more sense? That they simply maximize profit by exploitation and control over the means of production and therefore control society, or that this is some planned conspiracy that has been taking shape for the past thousand years in men in black robes.

Also, you mentioned info wars as a viable source of news. How would this secret all powerful group allow such information to be leaked from some fellow named Alex Jones? Wouldn't they get rid of him before he even got a chance to spread their secrets? Oh wait, that means that either A) Alex Jones is part of this secret society and they need him to somehow mislead the masses. or B) He is bourgeoisie in the sense that he exploits peoples fears and makes massive sums of money doing it by selling books, DVDs, coffee mugs, etc etc. so he needs to make people believe that such a group exists in order to maximize profits. A logical business move.

Sorry but these conspiracy theories are so full of holes and complex that they fall apart on their own with any critical analysis. So many people would have to be involved in this that it is logistically impossible to ensure that everyone is happy and no ones exposes them.

I bring back this argument, which you seemed to have missed, or simply ignored.

[Zukunftsmusik]

Going around blaming the elite for all the wrong reasons make you a perfect pet for that elite.

[hllymatterson]

Listen, you are all against the truth and want to only see the mirage, which is perfectly natural. Maybe it is because I exposed your messiah Marx, or because this ideology was fabricated by them.

But most likely it is because this is how its meant to be, communism will never happen, deindustrialization of the west is and is being moved to the BRICs. You all will work until you are useless or dead, playing into the capitalist system with only posting on forums as action, but not killing the enemy yourself. This is how the populace is meant to be.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Listen, you are all against the truth and want to only see the mirage, which is perfectly natural. Maybe it is because I exposed your messiah Marx, or because this ideology was fabricated by them.

But most likely it is because this is how its meant to be, communism will never happen, deindustrialization of the west is and is being moved to the BRICs. You all will work until you are useless or dead, playing into the capitalist system with only posting on forums as action, but not killing the enemy yourself. This is how the populace is meant to be.

LMAO you exposed our "messiah Marx"? When did you do that? Did I miss it? Communists on internet forums? I'm sorry, but there are Communists all over the world fighting in the streets and in the forests as we speak against the forces of oppression by all means at their disposal.

The only people I see only on the internet forums are these crack pot conspiracy theorists. Such as yourself.

[Zukunftsmusik]

hllymatterson, you fail to see the true reason for why there exists an elite, which is perfectly natural. Religion and conspiracy theories have always been around either to justify or to explain (though not correctly) why some have power and some haven't. What about reading some Marx (or at least something that's not from some obscure website) and at least pretend that what you read isn't fabricated by this mystic perverted sadistic elite. Perhaps you would see how completely rubbish this 'theory' of yours is, perhaps not. At least try?

[Tifosi]

What conspiracies do you believe in?: I believe that a cabal of people control the planet, they do so through contoling the economy, governments, religion, education, financial markets, the military, healthcare, the media, public opinion, etc. It is a very blood based organization that is so vast and highly efficent. I can elaborate for a while, its so complex it could be a subject in itself.

Also the whole ideology of communism was written by them. Karl Marx himself is a part of the moneyed family called the Rothschilds, who were at one time and may still be the wealthiest family to ever walk the planet. This family has also been financiang the green movement also for the carbon tax money. Karl Marx has rothschild blood because the originall patriarch of the family Nathan Mayer Rothschilld was married to Hannah Barent-Cohen, who's blood uncle was the great grandfather of Karl Marx.

Also the fact that George Soros is financing OccupyWallStreet makes me uneasy as well. And the fact that communist documentary maker Michael Moore is worth millions of dollars yet still supports communism. Communism seems to be to easily corruptable and infiltrated for personal gain.

Are 'they' by any chance the Jews?

:thumbdown:

[Art Vandelay]

Listen, you are all against the truth and want to only see the mirage, which is perfectly natural. Maybe it is because I exposed your messiah Marx, or because this ideology was fabricated by them.

But most likely it is because this is how its meant to be, communism will never happen, deindustrialization of the west is and is being moved to the BRICs. You all will work until you are useless or dead, playing into the capitalist system with only posting on forums as action, but not killing the enemy yourself. This is how the populace is meant to be.

Lex parsimoniae

[Revolution starts with U]

Listen, you are all against the truth and want to only see the mirage, which is perfectly natural. Maybe it is because I exposed your messiah Marx, or because this ideology was fabricated by them.

I'm not a Marxist, and neither are most anarchists.
No, I DO want to see the truth. I have spent countless hours looking up conspiracy theories and the conclusion I came to is that it is inherent to the system... you don't need the conspiracy when you and your class share common interests; making money off the backs of the productive people in society.
The truth as I see it is that workplace democracy (i.e. socialized production) is more ethical and efficient than any other system. By taking the reigns of production, the workers therebye render the ability to oppress obsolete. How can one oppress me if they have not the means to make and hire bigger guns?

But most likely it is because this is how its meant to be, communism will never happen, deindustrialization of the west is and is being moved to the BRICs. You all will work until you are useless or dead, playing into the capitalist system with only posting on forums as action, but not killing the enemy yourself. This is how the populace is meant to be.
And you are doing what?
I mean, listen to yourself; "we're all fucked, might as well just fuck everyone else while I'm at it."
I mean, really just stop, and check to see if you are looking at the data objectively. Knowledge is just no good if it's rooted in fallacy.

[ВАЛТЕР]

She is just a conspiracy nut/aspiring bourgeoisie....She has it in her head that she has all of the answers, shows up on a Revolutionary Leftist forum, full of Anarchists, Communists and the likes and then starts to spout her nonsense saying we are all sheep and are doing just what the super secretive cabal of powerful elites want us to do, without a shred of proof. Then she has the nerve in her opening post to say she wants to learn, bullshit you came here with a belief that you knew it all and we knew nothing. Sorry to break it to you, but your logic eats itself.

She claims that we are all fucked and the world is like that and whatnot and there is nothing we can do about it ever. Well if we were defeatist cowards like her this place probably wouldn't be called RevLeft but SitandwaittodieLeft....

[Revolution starts with U]

dibs on the domain name "sitandwaittodieleft.com" :lol:

[ВАЛТЕР]

dibs on the domain name "sitandwaittodieleft.com" :lol:

"The home of the defeatist left"

[Robert]

these people are totally protected through layers of secret bullshit.

Well, not "totally" protected. I mean, you managed to crack the case!

Well done.

"Layers of secret bullshit." God I love that.:lol:

[Nox]

Just a note: This is one of the people I was arguing with the Nazi against, she was defending colonialism.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Just a note: This is one of the people I was arguing with the Nazi against, she was defending colonialism.

And you invited her here? lol

[Robert]

I like her.

Don't run her off.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Meh, I find her posts amusing but she seems to regard everyone else as being sheep and fools for not seeing this grandiose scheme that is apparently taking place right before our very eyes. She seems to think she has it all figured out and disregards arguments to the contrary as being something "they want us to think" somehow.

Apparently the ONLY person not in this conspiracy is Alex Jones.

I think she should stay, I have fun dismantling her conspiracy theories.

[Robert]

Meh, I find her posts amusing but she seems to regard everyone else as being sheep and fools for not seeing this grandiose scheme that is apparently taking place right before our very eyes.

You know, that's exactly how we of OI feel when we talk to commies. Really, it is.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Fair enough. :)

[Bud Struggle]

Hey, OI is a place of toleration. There will be plenty of time after the Revolution for the, by then reformed Capitalists, to hunt all you RevLefters and throw you into gulags for being enemies to the state.

(That is how it's done, isn't it? :D)

[hatzel]

I think the lesson here is that as soon as somebody comes in and says "I hold this or that political belief because I believe in conspiracy theories," everybody should know to just lay down their tools and walk away, because anybody who justifies their politics in such a hilarious fashion clearly isn't going to be swayed by rational - or in fact even irrational - arguments, and should probably best be left to their own paranoia.

[Robert]

I accuse ALL you commies of conspiring to make Holly feel unwelcome.

And now she's gone.

That's right, "Holly."

That's her name. She told me.

It was, anyway. :crying:

[Drosophila]

riveting tale chap

[DinodudeEpic]

Ok, I'm not even going to debunk this one. She's either a troll or a nuthead.

Here's a video to show my emotionless computerized laughter and disgust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Honestly, I don't really see WHY you want to believe in these bullshit conspiracy theories anyways.

*Imaginary boos and hisses*

OK...fine...I will be more detailed.

As for freedom-loving ideologies, why not just be a mutualist? And, not believe in world conspiracies? After all, tyranny appears in many forms, not just crazy myths. (Although, I call my version Liberal Socialism.)

[thefinalmarch]

You know, that's exactly how we of OI feel when we talk to commies. Really, it is.
We don't consider capitalism to be a grandoise scheme under the direction of an elite cabal whose sole aim is to extract surplus value from our labour power; rather, it is the product of hundreds of years of economic development under feudalism; hundreds of years of technological innovation and revolutionising of the means of production.

The feudal system of industry, in which industrial production was monopolised by closed guilds, now no longer sufficed for the growing wants of the new markets. The manufacturing system took its place. The guild-masters were pushed on one side by the manufacturing middle class; division of labour between the different corporate guilds vanished in the face of division of labour in each single workshop.

Meantime the markets kept ever growing, the demand ever rising. Even manufacturer no longer sufficed. Thereupon, steam and machinery revolutionised industrial production. The place of manufacture was taken by the giant, Modern Industry; the place of the industrial middle class by industrial millionaires, the leaders of the whole industrial armies, the modern bourgeois.

[Robert]

"Riveting tale, chap."

Is that the faux-upper class version of "cool story, bro"?

God you guys are grim. :lol:

I do appreciate your input, finalmarch. You know your stuff!

[ComradeMan]

There are 13 bloodlines, no one knows for certain whos they are. They believe they are descended from Jesus Christ and his disciples. They are the enlightened ones. The "Illuminati" Here is the list, and kennedy is a part of it, and it is thought kennedy broke off on his own, or that the kennedys tried to overthrow the other families along with the Onassis. Type in "Illuminati 13 bloodlines" Also the Vatican, The Black Nobility, and the British and other European Monarchies are tied into it..

You do know that a lot of these theories of secret bloodlines and the like derive from a hoax by a Frenchman in the 1950s and 60s, don't you? The hoax was so well-known that it has obviously inspired a lot of dramatic and interesting fiction.


I think the lesson here is that as soon as somebody comes in and says "I hold this or that political belief because I believe in conspiracy theories," everybody should know to just lay down their tools and walk away, because anybody who justifies their politics in such a hilarious fashion clearly isn't going to be swayed by rational - or in fact even irrational - arguments, and should probably best be left to their own paranoia.

You're just saying that because according to some of these "theories" we are both part of the secret-alien-reptilian conspiracy.... :D