The debt tyranny

[molotovcocktail]

In the capitalist economy of today, you need to get a big debt in order of getting a place to live(unless you are one of the lucky to inherit loads of money), as a result of this, people stay in their shitty jobs because they need the money to pay down their debt.
Furthermore, the multinational corporation media have brainwashed the masses to think they need a big house to live a descent life. Therefore is Bigger house=more decency an idea that the masses believe in.
This leads to a society where the only ones with a descent and respectful life, are the few people on that inherit enough to buy a house without getting a gigantic loan.
The essence in this text is that debt is tyranny and one of the main things keeping us from a egalitarian society.

[Veovis]

Credit is a trap and any system that requires people to use it to get anywhere in life deserves to be destroyed.

[RedRose]

I think a much better system would be a mutualistic, essentially interest-free (except very small interest to cover administration) non-profit bank. Unfortanately, that isn't going to happen. Until currency goes, as soon as people can make a profit they will try to.

[danyboy27]

Debt is what created slavery in the first place, the current use of credit today is basically a softer version of serfhood and slavery.

By the time most people get out of college/university, they are officially the serf/slave of a bank or an institution and must payback their debts. it dosnt matter if the field you got your degree in have shit opportunity, if you cant find someting you like, you have to work for the service industry and pay the minimum monthly fee if you want to keep on living.

If you happen to finally work in the field you studied in, things dont change much, you still need to borrow money to your master for your wedding if you want a kid or if you want a house. You can try to do all that without borrowing money, but it will require a verry large social network, relation, time, stuff that not everybody have on their hand when they are mostly worried in paying the fees on their study loans.

the only difference betweeen the working class and the working poor is how tight their slave collars are.

[danyboy27]

I think a much better system would be a mutualistic, essentially interest-free (except very small interest to cover administration) non-profit bank. Unfortanately, that isn't going to happen. Until currency goes, as soon as people can make a profit they will try to.

Its called a credit union. I am a member of one and quite frankly, even if its a better alternative than a normal bank, the principle of debt slavery/serfhood still verry present in the institution.

i still owe them 3000 $ for the next 3 years and you wouldnt believe the number of request i have to extend my credit capacity.

[ВАЛТЕР]

I am already in federal student loan debt. :(

However guess when they'll see that money paid back? Fucking never.

I have dual citizenship, and can always scrounge up enough money to disappear to somewhere. So when I'm done with college, off I go, as far away from the US, and I'm immediately ditching their citizenship. Along with a nice letter that says "Thanks for the free education assholes."

[danyboy27]

I am already in federal student loan debt. :(

However guess when they'll see that money paid back? Fucking never.

I have dual citizenship, and can always scrounge up enough money to disappear to somewhere. So when I'm done with college, off I go, as far away from the US, and I'm immediately ditching their citizenship. Along with a nice letter that says "Thanks for the free education assholes."
Good luck with that, debts know no borders, if they want their money back, they are gonna find a way eventually. I imagine there are several arrangements between western countries to allow debt to be collected in a way or another.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Good luck with that, debts know no borders, if they want their money back, they are gonna find a way eventually. I imagine there are several arrangements between western countries to allow debt to be collected in a way or another.

Meh, life will be an adventure then...

Maybe I run off with the FARC with my degree :laugh:jk

[molotovcocktail]

Unfortanately, that isn't going to happen. Until currency goes
I think that to remove currency can be extremely hard, we do need a stable prize on things. Currency is one of many necessary evils. i do see the problem with it but I cant see how we are going to remove it.

[GatesofLenin]

It's amusing to me that so many "credit class" and "working-poor" vote right-wing parties in at every election time.

[Bud Struggle]

How's this: Don't borrow what you can't afford to pay back. Then you don't have to worry about credit or debt or paying money you don't have.

Just live within your means. That's the best way to go through life.

[Robert]

Meh, life will be an adventure then...

Especially when you apply for another loan and they pull up your history.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Or how about I need an education and do not have the means to afford it....I only took out credit on that, no new car, or TVs or awesome things.

My parents supported me as much as they could, paying for the first 2 1/2 years of college, however they are in no better an economic position and cannot pay anymore.

I took the loan because I need it, and I knew it was a mistake but I want a degree.

As the Greeks have said: I'm not paying. :)

[Bud Struggle]

I took the loan because I need it, and I knew it was a mistake but I want a degree. The operative words there are "I WANT."


As the Greeks have said: I'm not paying. :)They will pay--one way or another. If they think the austerity measures are bad--wait till they see what default looks like.

Personally, I think they should default--it will teach everybody a valuable lesson.

[danyboy27]

How's this: Don't borrow what you can't afford to pay back. Then you don't have to worry about credit or debt or paying money you don't have.

Just live within your means. That's the best way to go through life.

I doubt you can go to college and university without racking gigantic amount of debt, or buy a house, or own a car, or have a child.

Its possible but not within the reach of the majority of the peopulation.

The poor and the working poor cant live within their mean, any move they want to make to get out of their situation require them to borrow money, leaving them worst of even if they succede into climbing the social ladder.

Also, One must take into account the society in wich we live. If you have no purchasing power in that society, you are scorned and ridiculed, spending is a ritual that everyone must do at the risk of being somehow excluded from various social circles.

[Bud Struggle]

I doubt you can go to college and university without racking gigantic amount of debt, or buy a house, or own a car, or have a child. I dod. wen't to a first ate University, too. Granted that was 25 years ago.

[/quote]Its possible but not within the reach of the majority of the peopulation.[/quote] It is possible for those that want to do it.


The poor and the working poor cant live within their mean, any move they want to make to get out of their situation require them to borrow money, leaving them worst of even if they succede into climbing the social ladder. The poor and the working poor live way beyond their means. As far as the social ladder goes--who cares?


Also, One must take into account the society in wich we live. If you have no purchasing power in that society, you are scorned and ridiculed, spending is a ritual that everyone must do at the risk of being somehow excluded from various social circles.If you ever, EVER take into consideration what people might think about you from what you spend--you are screwed. And you did it to yourself.

[danyboy27]

The operative words there are "I WANT."
.
having a good education these day is necessary to get a decent job, its not a matter of want, its a matter of need.




They will pay--one way or another. If they think the austerity measures are bad--wait till they see what default looks like.
Personally, I think they should default--it will teach everybody a valuable lesson.
Argentina refused to pay and got out of this mess pretty fast, with no austerity measures or drastic social service cut.

Debts where forgiven in the past, this practice is verry old, mesopotamia did it and what was at stake back then was not merely dollars, but the lives of human slaves.

So no, debts dont necessarly need to be paid.

[Bud Struggle]

having a good education these day is necessary to get a decent job, its not a matter of want, its a matter of need. Maybe. Get a degree in Engineering and--yes. Get one in English or French Lit and --no.


Argentina refused to pay and got out of this mess pretty fast, with no austerity measures or drastic social service cut. Yup.


Debts where forgiven in the past, this practice is verry old, mesopotamia did it and what was at stake back then was not merely dollars, but the lives of human slaves. That was them


So no, debts dont necessarly need to be paid. There is a price for everything. Someone has to pay it.

[danyboy27]

I did. wen't to a first ate University, too. Granted that was 25 years ago.

things have changed since bud, and not necessarily for the best.




Its possible but not within the reach of the majority of the peopulation.[/quote] It is possible for those that want to do it.
[/QUOTE]

Its not simply a matter of will, but also a matter of having the mean. One must have the social connections and ressources at their disposal.



The poor and the working poor live way beyond their means. As far as the social ladder goes--who cares?

Some do, most dont. Define living beyond their means. is having a tv and a refregirator living beyond their mean? is having cable beccause other social activity are too costly living beyond their mean? is ordering a pizza after a 12 hours shift at a shit job beccause you are too fucking tired to do anything else living beyond their means?




If you ever, EVER take into consideration what people might think about you from what you spend--you are screwed. And you did it to yourself.
Almost Everybody is influenced or pressured in a way or another by its own environement, even you bud. If someone dont have enough money to participate to the local ritual and activities, he is pretty much screwed and on his own beccause nobody will be able to relate to him.

Money today also double has a social capital.

[Bud Struggle]

. is having a tv and a refregirator living beyond their mean? is having cable beccause other social activity I don't have cable and have a tube TV. My kids never owned a video game.


Almost Everybody is influenced or pressured in a way or another by its own environement, even you bud. If someone dont have enough money to participate to the local ritual and activities, he is pretty much screwed and on his own beccause nobody will be able to relate to him.

Money today also double has a social capital. Maybe, but me, the wife and my kids try to not live that life. We're Catholic and working class no matter how much money we have.

[danyboy27]

Maybe. get a deee in Eneeneering and--yes. Get one in English or French Lit and --no.
.
no knowledge is useless.



That was them

There is a price for everything. Someone has to pay it.[/QUOTE]

not true at all. How would you quantify the price of the defense budget per invididuals? is there a certain quantity of protection i am allowed beccause i pay x amount of taxes?
how do you quantify the amount of money someone have to pay to enjoy a public road 2 times a years?
how do you determine the price of a human life, how do you quantify it, measure it?

[danyboy27]

I don't have cable and have a tube TV. My kids never owned a video game.

I doubt you and your kids sit on your ass all day, you must somehow participate to various social activities.

I reckon one of your daugher was learning how to play piano?




Maybe, but me, the wife and my kids try to not live that life. We're Catholic and working class no matter how much money we have.
You must be a well known charity donor at that church, am i right?
that respect that you get by giving money get you respect from the other members.
And beside, i remember you mentionned that you sometimes like to go to a bar, drink some cold one with the pals, this kind of thing cost money.

Nobody can escape it bud, nobody in that economy can avoid the fact that owning money mean having more capabilities to create strong social bonds.

[Bud Struggle]

I doubt you and your kids sit on your ass all day, you must somehow participate to various social activities. Lotsw. But not by how much money I make. I drive a Hundae Elantra.

[/quote]I reckon one of your daugher was learning how to play piano?[/quote] Tought her myself (not that I play very well--but she does.) She learned piano from the school system


You must be a well known charity donor at that church, am i right?
that respect that you get by giving money get you respect from the other members. I give (and always have give a portion of my salary to Catholic Charities. The wife writes a check--and it's gone.) I contribute a nominal amount where people can see it.


And beside, i remember you mentionned that you sometimes like to go to a bar, drink some cold one with the pals, this kind of thing cost money. that's why god made happy hours!


Nobody can escape it bud, nobody in that economy can avoid the fact that owning money mean having more capabilities to create strong social bonds. I spend money. I have a plane. I enjoy my life--but Id do it for me, not to impress.

[Metacomet]

The operative words there are "I WANT."

They will pay--one way or another. If they think the austerity measures are bad--wait till they see what default looks like.

Personally, I think they should default--it will teach everybody a valuable lesson.

I agree, education should be for the top 2% EXCLUSIVELY.

[Bud Struggle]

I agree, education should be for the top 2% EXCLUSIVELY.

Nope--it should be valued.

[danyboy27]

Nope--it should be valued.

how do you put a value or a price on education, how do you quantify the value of knowledge itself? is that even possible?

[Robert]

As the Greeks have said: I'm not paying. :)

You promised to repay when you signed the loan.

Does your word mean anything or doesn't it?

[danyboy27]

Lotsw. But not by how much money I make. I drive a Hundae Elantra.
.
the car you drive dosnt matter, really. but doing social things cost money. it must be relatively insignificant for you to, lets say spend 20 bucks of gas a week to do some community work at your local jail, but for the avearge poor, 20 buck its a fews meal and part of the electricity bill.


Tought her myself (not that I play very well--but she does.) She learned piano from the school system

And you are telling me that she dont have any leisure at all? no karate lessons, girl scout, nothing at all??

[ВАЛТЕР]

You promised to repay when you signed the loan.

Does your word mean anything or doesn't it?

To the government and banks? My word means nothing. I'll lie and decieve them as I please just like they do to the people.

Individually? Yes, my word means a lot and I have never owed an individual anything.

[Robert]

Okay. Thanks for clarifying. Now ...

Is this only because the bank is an institution and not an individual person, or because it's an institution that you object to (as an enemy of the people, I'm guessing)?

[danyboy27]

You promised to repay when you signed the loan.

Does your word mean anything or doesn't it?

In theory the guy could declare bankruptcy but if he fail to find any of the ''good' jobs left in this kind of economy, that would mean he would be forced to work in the service industry, and not being able to borrow money in that situation could make a big difference when it come to Personnal comfort.

On a moral point of view, not paying back a debt is not such a big deal if in return, the individual Give something back to society.

Too bad banks and governement are unable to understand that a debt can be paid back with something else than money.

I would gladly help a bunch of people to take care of a computer for 2 year if it would mean my debt would be erased, many people would gladly do part time actions to help society rather than being forced to struggle for years, decades of paying compound interest on a debt that was already paid with those twice.

The state give me 2 year of subsistance to learn a skill, i am willing to give it back to help to my community for the amount of time.

That the problem with money, it might seem to be a simple way to quantify things like knowledge, education and healthcare, but in reality, there are things that you just cant quantify at all without causing grave injury and injustice.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Okay. Thanks for clarifying. Now ...

Is this only because the bank is an institution and not an individual person, or because it's an institution that you object to (as an enemy of the people, I'm guessing)?

You guessed correctly...banks are the enemy.

[Robert]

Okay, thanks.

Mind a couple more questions?

I went back and looked at this:


So when I'm done with college, off I go, as far away from the US, and I'm immediately ditching their citizenship.
You don't think you have to run, do you? They won't put you in jail for defaulting.

You're leaving with what are effectively stolen funds so that you can start life in a more advantageous circumstance? Kind of a reverse imperialism play?

On the citizenship, I'm guessing you were born in the USA to foreign born parents, so you didn't take this oath (I hope):

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Okay, thanks.

Mind a couple more questions?

I went back and looked at this:

You don't think you have to run, do you? They won't put you in jail for defaulting.

You're leaving with what are effectively stolen funds so that you can start life in a more advantageous circumstance? Kind of a reverse imperialism play?

On the citizenship, I'm guessing you were born in the USA to foreign born parents, so you didn't take this oath (I hope):

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

Nope, I dont plan on leavong for any advantages, other than living within my nation of birth.

I was not born in the US and do not remember ever making that oath. Even if I did it is nothing but a bunch of words to me which I could care less about.

[Robert]

living within my nation of birth.

"Nation", eh? Interesting.

Okay, thanks.

[Robert]

This is integrity:


The state give me 2 year of subsistance to learn a skill, i am willing to give it back to help to my community for the amount of time.
This is nothing, except half-baked nationalism maybe.


Nope, I don't plan on leaving for any advantages, other than living within my nation of birth.

[danyboy27]

On the citizenship, I'm guessing you were born in the USA to foreign born parents, so you didn't take this oath (I hope):

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.
such words have only meaning for those who believe in it.

[Robert]

I know that, dany. I just value integrity. I thought revolutionaries did too. Clearly I was mistaken about that.

In other words, if you don't believe in something, why say it in the first place?

You have to be 18 to become naturalized and take that oath, by the way, so it's not like the police forced our friend at age 9 to raise his right arm in some fascist salute. Now I'm starting to wonder how he can be a naturalized citizen and "not remember" taking the oath of citizenship.

[ВАЛТЕР]

I know that, dany. I just value integrity. I thought revolutionaries did too. Clearly I was mistaken about that.

In other words, if you don't believe in something, why say it in the first place?

You have to be 18 to become naturalized and take that oath, by the way, so it's not like the police forced our friend at age 9 to raise his right arm in salute. Now I'm starting to wonder how he can be a naturalized citizen and "not remember" taking the oath of citizenship.

I was twelve when I became a citizen. As to why I dont remember it, probably because I dont care whether I took that oath or not. For your information, even at twelve years old I was very much against becoming a citizen of a nation which I viewed as an aggressor and imperialistic. (Before you say anything, yes at age twelve I already had political positions and had a decent understanding of the world and I had already began to develop my world views at that time.)

[danyboy27]

I know that, dany. I just value integrity. I thought revolutionaries did too. Clearly I was mistaken about that.

In other words, if you don't believe in something, why say it in the first place?

You have to be 18 to become naturalized and take that oath, by the way, so it's not like the police forced our friend at age 9 to raise his right arm in some fascist salute. Now I'm starting to wonder how he can be a naturalized citizen and "not remember" taking the oath of citizenship.

Well, not taking hoat mean not being able to be a us citizen am i correct?
Its impossible to pledge allegeance to this kind of thing without having some serious disagreement.

Sound a bit like blackmail to me. you have to take an oat, you are not allowed to negociate it , you have to completely accept it completely, or you will be removed from the environnement in wich you grew up, lived, had friends etc etc.

[danyboy27]

btw robert, i never took an oath of my country, and i am fucking born here.
why would i pledge allegence to the Queen anyway?
I pity all those immigrants who are forced to pronounce it when they want to become canadian citizens.

The only oath i would pledge would be: Dont be malicious, dont kill innocent peoples, and dont fuck with people unless they want to fuck with you.

that the kind of oath i would gladly take without problems.

[Robert]

btw robert, i never took an oath of my country, and i am fucking born here.I didn't either, not for citizenship reasons anyway. Your country makes certain assumptions about your loyalty and fidelity to its laws when you are born there.

I don't blame Canada at all for asking me if I want to be loyal to Canada in exchange for whatever goodies I get in exchange for being a citizen. You start doing things to undermine the integrity of your country, you're still a citizen, but you go to jail. That's how it works here anyway.



Sound a bit like blackmail to me. you have to take an oat, you are not allowed to negociate it , you have to completely accept it completely, or you will be removed from the environnement in wich you grew up, lived, had friends etc etc. No. In the first place, you can negotiate to some extent on some points for reasons of conscience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_%28United_States%29

But more important, you don't have to be a citizen or take an oath to live here legally. I have to guess, but it sounds like BAJITEP was born abroad but immigrated to the USA with his parents legally. Then they all became citizens through naturalization (the oath, learn English and U.S. history). But if you come legally in the first place, you can stay indefinitely as a legal permanent resident.

I just don't get why a person would go through all of that if they don't believe it in the first place.

Don't believe it? Don't say it. What's so hard?

[kapitalyst]

I still have no credit. I've never borrowed from any institution. And I was once in the position of not eating. You don't have to borrow. I discourage people from it, especially when you don't have the money. The only good reason to borrow is when you can make money off the loan or benefit from having it. In other words, you'd better beat the real APR by a wide margin.

It's sad that our schools aren't teaching kids about finances and investing. They go to college, get themselves balls deep in credit card and student loan debt they didn't understand and then... become Marxists? Yeah, we need better education...

[Robert]

I was twelve when I became a citizen. As to why I dont remember it, probably because I dont care whether I took that oath or not. For your information, even at twelve years old I was very much against becoming a citizen of a nation which I viewed as an aggressor and imperialistic. (Before you say anything, yes at age twelve I already had political positions and had a decent understanding of the world and I had already began to develop my world views at that time.) Okay, thanks for the information. I don't doubt that you had a sophisticated understanding at age 12. And it sounds like maybe your folks maybe applied for you to become a citizen more or less without asking you (right?), which is an exception to the general "must be 18 or over to naturalize," so I apologize for and retract that part of my remarks.

[danyboy27]

I still have no credit. I've never borrowed from any institution. And I was once in the position of not eating. You don't have to borrow. I discourage people from it, especially when you don't have the money. The only good reason to borrow is when you can make money off the loan or benefit from having it. In other words, you'd better beat the real APR by a wide margin.

For your information, if my parents wouldnt have been able to borrow, my family wouldnt have been able to eat for several day a year.

I am not joking, its just how poverty can kick you in the face with a shovel.
Some people dont have the choice but to borrow money or to get the groceries.

[Robert]

why would i pledge allegence to the Queen anyway?

Because she's the Queen. Hey, don't look at me, you guys can still declare full independence if you want to.

Plus she wears nice hats.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4tV_kJB-oV9Up5UzsKxSxRVj1NjgZTjJcP5xgYDQ3j8EJXwKR

[danyboy27]

Because she's the Queen. Hey, don't look at me, you guys can still declare full independence if you want to.

Plus she wears nice hats.


iif we want to? IF WE WANT TO? HAVE YOU SEEN THE FUCKING MANIACS RULLING CANADA THESE DAYS?

those folks are more monarchist than the goddamn brittish for christ sake.
they replaced the name of the navy by the name of canadian royal navy, did pretty much the same thing with the airforce, every embassy is now required to have a big fucking picture of this goddamn abobination in full view, they removed a painting representing unification in our foreign affair building for a large picture of her has well.

Not mentionning the millions canada decided to spend on the prince last visit here.

that would be funny if all what i just said was just a fucking joke coming from the mercer report, unfortunately, it isnt.

[Robert]

IF WE WANT TO? HAVE YOU SEEN THE FUCKING MANIACS RULLING CANADA THESE DAYS?

No worse than what these guys faced in 1776:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_1ARZZFuu3_2yFKRMY7rOywO9kuElw S0WIQy9rmqDkmGeMxWt

Is it just me, or does anyone else hear the merry sound of faraway fifes?

[danyboy27]

No worse than what these guys faced in 1776:

Is it just me, or does anyone else hear the merry sound of faraway fifes?
you really have no fucking idea how fucked up things are here, do you?

[Robert]

No, I confess I really don't.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Good luck with that, debts know no borders, if they want their money back, they are gonna find a way eventually. I imagine there are several arrangements between western countries to allow debt to be collected in a way or another.

It's still possible to go "off the grid" (esp. in another country), if you're smart about it and do a lot of planning beforehand. It's a lot harder if you're running from some kind of agency like the NSA, but debt collectors? Yeah, get me to another country where I speak the language and have connections, and they'll never find me.

[RGacky3]

Kapitalyst, stop talking about YOUR personal story, its not relevant and no one cares.

[Bud Struggle]

Kapitalyst, stop talking about YOUR personal story, its not relevant and no one cares.

Yea Kapitalist start talking about Norway! :D

[CommunityBeliever]

It's sad that our schools aren't teaching kids about finances and investing. They go to college, get themselves balls deep in credit card and student loan debt they didn't understand and then... become Marxists? Yeah, we need better education...

Our "kids" aren't being taught enough about financing. That is definitely the source of the world's problems today, not the fact 99% of the world's population owns less then 5% of the world's wealth and is forced into an exploitative relation with the top 1%.

[JFB.anon]

Usury is bullshit, it always has been

[Judicator]

In the capitalist economy of today, you need to get a big debt in order of getting a place to live(unless you are one of the lucky to inherit loads of money), as a result of this, people stay in their shitty jobs because they need the money to pay down their debt.
Furthermore, the multinational corporation media have brainwashed the masses to think they need a big house to live a descent life. Therefore is Bigger house=more decency an idea that the masses believe in.
This leads to a society where the only ones with a descent and respectful life, are the few people on that inherit enough to buy a house without getting a gigantic loan.
The essence in this text is that debt is tyranny and one of the main things keeping us from a egalitarian society.

So you're saying...
1) In the capitalist economy, there are no apartments, only houses.
2) Instead of moving away from their shitty jobs in cities and living almost for free, people choose to remain in the city.
3) Status-seeking behavior by the poor is a new invention and had never existed before the dawn of capitalism