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RGacky3
3rd October 2011, 11:33
Along side Unions I think left parties are very important, and not neccessarily because I think they should win national elections, I don't think that national elections are that important and I believe many times national politics is where left parties go to die.

Take for example the French Communist party, Gererally not that high electoral results, yet htye have a lot of power, why is that? LARGE membership, a large and active membership, and activity in local politics (where many times you can get more done), you also have them being the main left opposition (historically, not anymore) to the government and thus leading in protests and strikes. Nowerdays you have the New anti-capitalist party that seams to be the raising star on the left in France

Or take Socialist Left in Norway, out of government it was gaining popularity as a left alternative to labor, out of power it was pulling labor to the left and acted as a socialist counterweight, in power it was pulled by labor to the right, in power it is in a position of weakness, out of power its in a position of strength, SV can pull voters out of labor if labor gets too capitalistic, in power, it has to cooperate with labor to stay in the government. Recently SV took a serious beating, and I think it has to do with SV moving to the right.

I think left organizations, everywhere, should focus more on local politics, building a large and strong grass roots base and focus on being the opposition, being the one that sides with the protesters and unions, and the one that forces the social-democratic parties to the left, rather than focusing on getting IN national power, which will many times strip you of your ability to fight against the power, especially if national power leaves you subservient to the larger parties.

This is mostly for the parlimentary system, not so much for the US, however in the US, I think overall its the same, but given American politics, having a socialist in national government, even if its just to be a voice, does a lot.

citizen of industry
3rd October 2011, 12:11
Yeah I totally agree with this. Once they enter parliament the whole focus tends to turn into a bid for votes, and they get detached from working class struggles, and decidedly non-revolutionary because they have to cooperate with government.

A political campaign could be a useful tool to get ideas out and increase the public profile of the party, but it should be an adjunct to local politics and community/union.

Also I hate the idea of the representative being twisted around in the media and made out as the sole symbol of the theory and practice of the party.

Smyg
3rd October 2011, 12:12
Exactly. Leftists "in charge" doesn't work.

Local politics I agree with! There good things can be done.

RGacky3
3rd October 2011, 12:18
Leftists in Charge can work, but not if them being "in charge" is dependant on capitalist parties or capital, which is almost always the case, in parlimentary systems them bieng "in charge" almost always made them subservient to social-democratic parties.

Die Neue Zeit
3rd October 2011, 19:22
Take for example the French Communist party, Gererally not that high electoral results, yet htye have a lot of power, why is that? LARGE membership, a large and active membership, and activity in local politics (where many times you can get more done)

[...]

I think left organizations, everywhere, should focus more on local politics, building a large and strong grass roots base and focus on being the opposition, being the one that sides with the protesters and unions, and the one that forces the social-democratic parties to the left, rather than focusing on getting IN national power

It is in local politics where the illusions of "municipal socialism" and related governance and coalitionism are strongest. Your suggestion is quite narrow.

The left should focus on clear-headed opposition at all levels, from the local to the national (and EU level).

RGacky3
3rd October 2011, 19:53
Of coarse, but I think that they can get MORE done on a local level, the ONLY reason Bernie Sanders was voted into the Senate was because of his Mayoral success.

Die Neue Zeit
3rd October 2011, 21:39
Mayoral success? You mean actually being part of the governing structure of the local state apparatus, which I just mentioned above as something to oppose?

Die Rote Fahne
4th October 2011, 02:04
The only "left" party that is important is a workers party. Their participation in parliament, or whatever, should be solely to promote the interests of the working class (socialist revolution -- not reforms), and work for class consiousness of the workers.

RGacky3
4th October 2011, 06:42
Mayoral success? You mean actually being part of the governing structure of the local state apparatus, which I just mentioned above as something to oppose?


Yeah, by success I mean making things better for working people ... Thats the point of socialists right?