Socialist perspective of China and Tibet?

[Dogs On Acid]

Can I have your opinion on this?

[Smyg]

There are times when one should support national liberation, and times when one should not. The theocratic would-be leadership of Tibet and other such things versus the crimes of the Chinese government leaves me wondering which option is the good one.

[Dogs On Acid]

There are times when one should support national liberation, and times when one should not. The theocratic would-be leadership of Tibet and other such things versus the crimes of the Chinese government leaves me wondering which option is the good one.

Both are bad, but if I had to pick a side, I'd personally go with China.

[Smyg]

I have this very nasty inclination to always go with the oppressed, no matter how bad it might turn out. For example, I support the Libyan rebels - and just look at how fucked up that situation is.

[Tim Cornelis]

To be fair, the Dalai Lama has promised democratic reforms if Tibet were to become independent and has stepped down as political leader, he is only a spiritual leader now(basically a constitutional monarchy).

[Smyg]

Well, he's definitely more likeable than any other theocratic leader in that regard.

[Nox]

It's difficult to say.

If you forget the past and just look at the current state of China, why does Tibet deserve independence?

[Dogs On Acid]

Dalai Lama is a populist reactionary religious leader.

In fact he considers it morally wrong to have sex in any place but a vagina, for fuck sake...

Socialism has no place for them.

[Smyg]

But he's better than the ayatollahs and the pope, on the scale of theocratic leaders.

[Dogs On Acid]

But he's better than the ayatollahs and the pope, on the scale of theocratic leaders.

And the Democrats are better than the Republicans, on the scale of Bourgeois Parties.

Doesn't mean I support them.

[Smyg]

No, but if the choice is between reactionary and brutal capitalist people ruling Tibet, and the reactionary and not-so-brutal religious people ruling Tibet, then I'll go with the ones who're going to do the least repression.

[Imposter Marxist]

Sometimes you people confuse 'the oppressed' and 'the oppresser' the Dalai Lama was not likeable. He had slaves. He worked for the CIA and probably still does. He is an evil man who most buddhists don't even like.

Though, it makes sense for to confused people to support both the Lama's return to power and the Libyan (contras).

[Smyg]

You're amusing.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Dalai Lama is a populist reactionary religious leader.

In fact he considers it morally wrong to have sex in any place but a vagina, for fuck sake...

Socialism has no place for them.

This is false, or at least a huge oversimplification. Buddhism approaches any sex as "attachment," including straight sex, but opposes it in the same respect that they oppose eating chocolate. You can't seriously conflate that with the moralizing attitude of the Abrahamic faiths.


Sometimes you people confuse 'the oppressed' and 'the oppresser' the Dalai Lama was not likeable. He had slaves. He worked for the CIA and probably still does. He is an evil man who most buddhists don't even like.

Though, it makes sense for to confused people to support both the Lama's return to power and the Libyan (contras).

This is nonsense. He was deposed at a young age and cannot be held personally responsible for the feudalism of an ancient country. "buddhists dont even like" is there a source for that ??? the only legitimate criticism that you can pin on him is that he worked with the CIA but in case you didn't know, Mao sold out to Nixon so in that case the PRC is no better.


Tibet became a part of China through marriage between royal families 7 centuries ago, why would you support separatists like Dollars Lama and his clique of latifundists?

That's a bullshit argument, no Communist should use feudal political arrangements to defend modern colonialism and imperialism.


The problem with arguing with this issue with pro-China "leftists" (apologists for Chinese Imperialism) is that for whatever reason, authentic and legitimate Tibetan demands for cultural, political and economic autonomy are somehow really demands for some renewal of feudalism, even though feudalism as an economic system ceased to exist in Tibet decades ago and nobody in the exiled Tibetan community has seriously called for an economic counter-revolution. The Dalai Lama himself has made it clear that political democracy and economic egalitarianism are the goals of the exile community. Of course, Indian Maharajas were also feudal and it was just as imperialistic when Britain conquered them, but that doesn't mean that Indians who later demanded independence were themselves trying to pursue a feudal counter-revolution!

Did Tibet before Mao have a backwards repressive economic system? Yes of course it did and many idealistic pro-tibetans are naive fools for not recognizing that fact. But that does not justify Chinese policy on the issue and people should be more sympathetic to why the Tibetans, Mongols and Turks chafe under Chinese political domination. Remember too that Tibetans aren't the only people who feel socially isolated, politically weak and economically exploited in modern China, despite whatever "reforms" the Chinese state can claim, so this isn't just one old feudal priest trying to recreate his "shanri la". There are serious contradictions in how China tried to impose "Socialism" on these minorities in the peripheries of their nation.

[eric922]

On the topic of the Dali Lama. As someone who still does practice Buddhism and has spent a lot of time talking to various Buddhist online, most Buddhists, aside from the followers of the Tibetan Buddhism, don't care for the Dali Lama.

Some are merely apathetic towards him while others are hostile. A lot of it depends on the tradition, a follower of one of the Theravada schools is likely to a lot more critical of him than a follower of the Mahayana school.

As to the OPs question, I am conflicted, on one hand China,at this point, is nothing more than a capitalist imperial power, but I certainly don't want a return to Feudal Tibet.