Convincing people that their countries are nothing to be proud of.

[The Stalinator]

Sometimes "you didn't accomplish anything by being born there" isn't good enough, and otherwise rational people are under the impression they need to appreciate the state they live under.

So how do I try and steer them in the other direction?

[manic expression]

You could try saying: Loving your nation means knowing what's wrong with it and working hard to change it for the better. Also, no matter where you're from, we're all in this together...every nation under capitalist rule is stricken with the same ills, and thus they all require the same cure.

[Dimitri Molotov]

I always tell them that there is no reason to be especially proud of your country if you had no choice in which country to be born in, because no matter how "free" of a country you will be born in you would probably end up being proud of it for no legitimate reason. I then just tell them all of the reasons I am ashamed of my country instead.

[thesadmafioso]

Nationalism is a very powerful drug when it stands as a strain of thought promoted by the cultural hegemony of the bourgeois.

All you can really do at the moment is to patiently explain its role of dissuading the working masses of the world from unity in their struggle fails and outline its reactionary nature. Persistence in the definition of its service as a mechanism of idealistic bourgeois division is the most effective tactic that you can adopt.

[ВАЛТЕР]

You can't attack people for being happy for their nation. I cheer wildly when Serbia or Bosnia beats another country in sports. Is that wrong? Or am I not understanding this...

[TheGodlessUtopian]

You can't attack people for being happy for their nation. I cheer wildly when Serbia or Bosnia beats another country in sports. Is that wrong? Or am I not understanding this...

I think sports teams and nationalism are two different things.Perhaps there is some grey area here but it depends largely on how you view nationalism I suppose.

[Desperado]

Country =/= State

[Yugo45]

You can't attack people for being happy for their nation. I cheer wildly when Serbia or Bosnia beats another country in sports. Is that wrong? Or am I not understanding this...

That's different. I too love to see when people who are physically close to me, people who share the same culture as me, who speak the same language, who eat the same types of food, do something good. Be it people from my neighbourhood, from my city, or from my country. Nothing bad at that, in my opinion.

But you have people who think their "nation" or country is the best, and that all other countries and people are barbarians and lesser beings. And the only reason is because they think they're part of a big tribe (called "nations" these days), which in reality is only a mean of controlling the masses. Sorta like relligion, really.

You know what I'm talking about, you're from Yugoslavia :)

[Tablo]

Yeah, sports team are different. It's all about fun as long as no one takes it too far... I'm looking at you European football fans.

[ВАЛТЕР]

That's different. I too love to see when people who are physically close to me, people who share the same culture as me, who speak the same language, who eat the same types of food, do something good. Be it people from my neighbourhood, from my city, or from my country. Nothing bad at that, in my opinion.

But you have people who think their "nation" or country is the best, and that all other countries and people are barbarians and lesser beings. And the only reason is because they think they're part of a big tribe (called "nations" these days), which in reality is only a mean of controlling the masses. Sorta like relligion, really.

You know what I'm talking about, you're from Yugoslavia :)

The Balkans are a special place where nothing can make sense to you unless you are from here. ;):)

[Conscript]

That's like trying to convince people their porn fetish is nasty.

[PhoenixAsh]

Bull...nobody touches the mighty Dutch Nation!

We are superior in every respect. We have windmills, we have cheese, we dance around on wooden shoes, we have phillips, we have Fokker, we are the world leading experts in water, we made the US possible, we introduced the word apartheid, we were the worlds largest and most powerful colonial empire...we were huge in the...the... slave...trade... wait....

ehh.... :blink: ...


We are the number one exporter or XTC???

no?

Eh...we have legalised weed??


Fuckit...we suck

[PhoenixAsh]

Ask them why they are proud. Then pick up from there. Most people will give you some reasons...then you can give them some counter reasons. But I guarantee you...that will not work. However...what will work for Americans is sending them over here....usually they will be completely recovered once they leave.

[o well this is ok I guess]

come up with choice insults based on the nation.
Every nation is or has been up to no good. Bring that up and say "o wait but you're so proud of that"
"wat no we've done good stuff"
"o ya like x y and z but o wait those aren't good. You sounds like a psychopath, man."

[Conscript]

Bull...nobody touches the mighty Dutch Nation!

We are superior in every respect. We have windmills, we have cheese, we dance around on wooden shoes, we have phillips, we have Fokker, we are the world leading experts in water, we made the US possible, we introduced the word apartheid, we were the worlds largest and most powerful colonial empire...we were huge in the...the... slave...trade... wait....

ehh.... :blink: ...


We are the number one exporter or XTC???

no?

Eh...we have legalised weed??


Fuckit...we suck

Cheer up. You have Thunderdome!

[The Stalinator]

That's different. I too love to see when people who are physically close to me, people who share the same culture as me, who speak the same language, who eat the same types of food, do something good. Be it people from my neighbourhood, from my city, or from my country. Nothing bad at that, in my opinion.

But you have people who think their "nation" or country is the best, and that all other countries and people are barbarians and lesser beings. And the only reason is because they think they're part of a big tribe (called "nations" these days), which in reality is only a mean of controlling the masses. Sorta like relligion, really.

You know what I'm talking about, you're from Yugoslavia :)

Yeah, I get what you mean. I'm talking about the latter kinda people, not the former. Loving your country's culture and what is a whole different thing, but unfortunately, a lot of people I meet who love their culture are also batshit insane nationalists who can't understand why I'd ever care about how people live elsewhere in the world.

[kour]

You can't attack people for being happy for their nation. I cheer wildly when Serbia or Bosnia beats another country in sports. Is that wrong? Or am I not understanding this...

Being proud of your country is OK on a superficial level, but once you go from pretending your country is superior to create a fun rivalry with people of other countries, to actually believing your country is superior and that people from other countries should have less rights than people from yours, you are undermining inter-national equality and world peace.

[Ocean Seal]

Its unlikely that you can. Just stop them when they say something like stupid

Like: LETS go to war with the RUSSIANS !!!!!!!!
Then you try to bring them back to Earth

Also you might also bring up a list of fucked up things that the US has done, and when you do try to convince them that loving your nation doesn't mean supporting it always.