Inclusive Democracy as a political project for a new libertarian synthesis

[Delenda Carthago]

KdIG4SwMJyk

os21Ta5Xis0

SkgPFDqZ8hU

AESJ0wCuRTE

Takis Fotopoulos' talk in "Alternatives to capitalism: discussing on self-management", in the celebration of the CNT CeNTenary. Barcelona, April 2010.
http://inclusivedemocracy.org (http://inclusivedemocracy.org/)


There are subs for many languages on the videos.


PS. I dont nessesarily agree with Fotopoulos.

[Искра]

Who is he? :)

[Delenda Carthago]

Greek political thinker, the creator of "Inclusive Democracy" conncept which summaries to the ideal that we need political, social, economical democracy. Its an antiauthoritarian tendecy influenced by Cornelious Castoriades, Murray Bookchin, Situationists and of course anarchism that dont have really big impact in Greece(the fact that they only exist in their websites,newspapers and in center-left newspaper "Eleftherotipia" dont help either) but they seem to be bigger in countries like USA and Spain.

[Искра]

But "inclusive democracy" is not anything new... I study politics and I read about it (it's some liberal NGO shit :)). I think that this is something different.

Do you maybe have a link to some text by him about this "inclusive democracy"? I'm writing an article about "direct democracy and 'new mass movements'" so I would really apreciate.

ps. Cornelious Castoriades rocks! :cool:

[Delenda Carthago]

He is the founder of the ID idea. Its not different. He just gives a speak at CNT in Spain. Which would be a much more interesting subject to write about if you ask me.

But you can find texts and videos of him at the link that I gave above.

[Искра]

Ok. Thank you for information :)

[Delenda Carthago]

If you dont mind, where in Croatia would a subject like that be published? Cause as far as I know, there arent many libertarian and democratic cores around, right?

[Искра]

In Croatia there's big student movement based on principle of direct democracy. In 2008 and in 2009 there were occupations of universities where we established plenum's (direct democratic bodies). We even published a book about occupation. You can read English version here (http://slobodnifilozofski.org/?p=1901). This movement is also anti-capitalist, which could be seen from anti-government demostrations from spring 2011. Also, this movement is against European Union and we published series of articles against EU in one "left-liberal" papers.

Regarding libertarian organisations there's Network of Anarcho-Syndicalists. I used to belong there.

So there are cores.

Still, I'll try to publish this article in more mainstream papers, because I want more people to read it :)

[Delenda Carthago]

In Croatia there's big student movement based on principle of direct democracy. In 2008 and in 2009 there were occupations of universities where we established plenum's (direct democratic bodies). We even published a book about occupation. You can read English version here (http://slobodnifilozofski.org/?p=1901). This movement is also anti-capitalist, which could be seen from anti-government demostrations from spring 2011. Also, this movement is against European Union and we published series of articles against EU in one "left-liberal" papers.

Regarding libertarian organisations there's Network of Anarcho-Syndicalists. I used to belong there.

So there are cores.

Still, I'll try to publish this article in more mainstream papers, because I want more people to read it :)
Very nice! Thank you very much!

[Kotze]

There's nothing in that talk addressing the questions raised in previous threads (here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/inclusive-democracy-introduction-t149028/index.html?t=149028) and here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/inclusive-democracy-t155807/index.html?t=155807)) about the two kinds of vouchers Takis Fotopoulos proposes, basic and non-basic, now I'm numbering these issues and hope they don't get missed this time around.

1. Stuff is not really either basic or luxury, there is a spectrum.

2. How does saving work? Fotopoulos talks about working overtime only to obtain non-basic vouchers.

3. Even though consumption could be handled with different voucher types, I don't see it as feasible to make much of a separation on the production side. Inputs like electricity can be used to produce either very basic or very frivolous consumer stuff, so the question is how indirect demand for that by the different voucher types is weighted.

4. And it gets more complicated, even the same consumer stuff has different uses as well. You can put food in your mouth or another person's face. You have that problem in general with price controls and subsidies for certain goods that people will use them in a careless and wasteful manner.

I also disagree with just about everything else he said (emphasis on delegation instead of sortition, vague criticism of economic growth, talking about Pareto efficient outcomes as if it was some elitist concept, and I don't see how he can plausibly avocate decentralizing decisions while stressing the ecological problems we face).