Let it burn.

[Dimitri Molotov]

My hope for any sort of major leftist progress in the United States is diminishing rather quickly. I do not think that this country is a good breeding ground for free thought, let alone revolution, and it is either the fact that the government and media have managed to "brainwash" the people, or maybe they just don't care. I think it is a combination of the two. Even if we got enough people to agree with us to do anything, it seems nobody wants to do what it takes to get what we all want. Maybe they are afraid of the law, but maybe there just isn't enough support. The people who actually do share the same interests as us hide behind their protest signs and voting booths. I am not even suggesting anything violent, just something more radical. An organized mass boycott, organized civil disobedience such as Gandhi's tactics, or perhaps something similar to the Boston Tea Party. Alas, even if we had someone willing to do this, there is simply not enough public support in this country to back it up. Any kind of revolutionary action is close to futile at this point.

I understand developed countries such as the US are needed to go through the phase transition from capitalism to socialism, since it is already industrialized, but I think a third world or less politically stable country would be easier to spark a reform, but I don't think it would be as successful as a fully industrialized socialist country. Also, please correct me if I am wrong, I am a high school student still studding all of the different writings.

I am ready to leave the United States and go somewhere with a better chance of progress. I am sick of nobody giving a fuck, and everyone who does give a fuck is a god damn right wing drone. The only exceptions to those groups are us leftists, but we are few and far between in the good old US of A. This country is running itself into the ground and I am not sure if it is even worth trying to save, or if I even want to. Even if it were to recover it's economy I still despise all of the things this putrid place has come to stand for. I don't think we will make any progress here through reform and voting. I think one of the only effective solutions for now is to concentrate our efforts somewhere else. What happens if we just let it destroy itself? The way I see it, it will only either collapse or only get even more impossible to reform. I don't know if we should try to fix it and I definitely do not think we can. Should we only just let it burn?

Comrades, which of the other countries of the world are most likely to spark a revolution and most able to support it and succeed? Where can I go to find other comrades who share the same dreams as I? What kind of things am I going to have to do to work towards Communism on a larger scale there a reality? How close is it to being accomplished? Is there anywhere an Anarcho-Communist society is being built?

Where am I needed and what can I do to best help this cause?
I can't do much now only in high school, I don't know where to go and I don't know what I will do. I still have a lot to learn, but I promise I will work towards this, and you will hear of me one day. I need to know the best place to be at as to not waste my efforts to come.

Thank you in advance Comrades. Please share your thoughts and advice.

Sincerely, Comrade Dimitri

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Building revolution is a life long process.It involves talking with a lot of people, starting clubs and groups where and when you can, it means organizing students and workers around causes which affect them as well as knowing that sometimes working with non-revolutionary organizations is a fine substitute when there is no leftist presence in your area.

Doing anything in America is hard as there is such a diverse population but this simply means a better opportunity to learn what to do in the appropriate situation.You cannot expect to lead a one man revolution,it is simply impossible, it takes steady effort over the course of decades, if not a life time.

You are still "young" and as many will tell you doing anything in high school is tricky; 'study now and save your efforts for college' is what many will tell you.Take things one step at a time.

[Tablo]

Progress has been made in the labor movement. Workers are very much so becoming more militant all across the nation. A combination of Obama deceit and decreased living standards has seriously pissed people off. We don't necessarily have people waving red flags in the streets, but we are moving in a good direction ideologically. I wouldn't leave the country just for lack of militancy. Socialism is a global struggle and we need militants in the US to push socialism forward. The best place for you to be is at home in your own community offering the real serious answers to those suffering class society. I know the way you feel and I used to want to leave the country, but ultimately the class struggle is a global and abandoning the US doesn't help at all.

[Obs]

wahhh i want immediate gratification wahhh

[o well this is ok I guess]

Bro not even the most radical ultraleft insurrectionists expect to achieve the revolution by tomorrow morning. Revolution simply does not happen, but are the result not just of chance but the work of all who wish to see revolution.

No wildcat strike, revolution, insurrection, or any movement whatsoever would have occurred without the dedicated efforts of all agitators, provocateurs, organizers, and all general kool kats.

We are young, and cannot bear to wait. However, unless it is true that we can recreate May 68 tomorrow morning, then we must wait. So at the very least, we can direct our passion towards something productive while we are still young enough to loathe waiting.

[Dimitri Molotov]

Okay, thank you comrades. I know what I must do.

[o well this is ok I guess]

You know what you should do? Join up with the crusties and crimethinc kids. After graduation, of course.

I mean, you're unlikely to bring about revolution doing so and you'll no doubt encounter some kooky primitivist types (and bad politics in general) and such, but it's a great learning experience nonetheless.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I hate to say it, buuut...I feel DM's pain, to some extent. You just gotta become more jaded and expect the worst all the time, then you're never disappointed! :thumbup1:

But yes, the situation is very sad here, despite a couple bright spots (i.e. the ILWU sabotage recently, the Wisconsin protests, etc). I don't think that people outside the USA really grasp the magnitude of public opinion here. Yes, you can get some of it through reporting in the media, but you can only fully grasp the skull-numbing mixture of complete apathy mixed with hardcore reaction if you witness it first-hand. :lol: But, y'know, it could all change in the blink of an eye...there was an Economist article shortly before the collapse of the Tunisian government which predicted that Zine Ben Ali would stay in power till he croaked, for example.

[Astarte]

Progress has been made in the labor movement. Workers are very much so becoming more militant all across the nation. A combination of Obama deceit and decreased living standards has seriously pissed people off.

Its true. I was watching this last week. Tom Morello from "Rage Against the Machine" was on, as well as Michael Moore. Listen to what Morello says at 2:19 (how he says ...fight for the working class...!), and a few people get really excited!! I think that as the Right gets more reactionary - the Left will get more radical and open to genuine leftism.

k7gpLKVqUZw

[Tablo]

Its true. I was watching this last week. Tom Morello from "Rage Against the Machine" was on, as well as Michael Moore. Listen to what Morello says at 2:19 (how he says ...fight for the working class...!), and a few people get really excited!! I think that as the Right gets more reactionary - the Left will get more radical and open to genuine leftism.

k7gpLKVqUZw
So true. I'm not a huge fan of RATM or their politics, but what he said was so fucking right. Workers are truly radicalizing. We may not be as radical as a lot of Revleft people would hope, but things are going in a positive direction. Even as the right-wing radicalizes, the left is bigger by far because we are workers and we are the bulk of society.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

Honestly, with all the shit going down in America and the current material conditions, I simply do not see how you could feel this way comrade. I have a strong feeling that shit is about to get real and hit the fan either way I agree with what others have said previously.

[Os Cangaceiros]

lol nice IWW hat tom :lol:

Anyway, I'd hesistate on basing any kind of idea off Maher's audience, which may be the douchiest on all of television. It's like the liberal version of a Tea Party audience during a GOP debate.

[OHumanista]

Indeed, leaving the US won't change anything. Instead add your strength to those working on "awakening" the working class and keep your eyes open, things are changing a lot in your country. It is not the ideal place of a commie or anarchist (quite bad as you said) but it is getting better even if not as fast or as good as we want.

*serious mode off* And then of course there is the fact the US is damn powerful, it would be just awesome if workers seize it :D:thumbup1: exporting the revolution to the world would be so much easier than from some rural feudal country

[ericksolvi]

The only revolution scenario I see working is through systemic implosion. The Democrats and Republicans need to go to war. Some of those radical gun toting, race war planning, militia types need to be pushed into actually doing something violent, even terrorist in nature, on a grand scale. Then the more moderate members of the government would declare marshal law, and another civil war could start. This would make the American people truly hate the government and right wing extremists. After everything settles, and a new government is being formed, that's when a leftist message could actually gain mass support.
You see when we demonstrate we only succeed in annoying the general public. The American people recent anyone who inconveniences them. We won't convince them by holding signs and causing traffic problems. The only way they will ever really want the existing system to be torn down is if that system becomes a bigger nightmare for them. You and I may find the system appalling, but most citizens see revolution as simply being more trouble then it's worth. They would rather watch American Idol then face change and uncertainty.
Part of the lefts problem is the fact that we don't have a party line, or a central authority. I've read a lot of the anarchist positions and they just don't work with our society. Americans can't understand a system without a figure head, and why should they, it's ridiculous. Anarchist models of government are like some primitive animal, think jellyfish, no brain but it manages to survive. The US is more like a snake it's big and generalised in design, but it definitely has a head, and you don't want to mess with it. If we could snap our fingers and have no more government save a collection of workers councils, the people would be terrified. There would be no more head on the snake to strike our enemies, and in the eyes of most Americans the world is composed primarily of our enemies. The only leftism that could take hold in this country would be an authoritarian form that made the people feel safe. Strong leadership pointing the way forward, and relieving people of the personal responsibility that they never wanted in the first place. A well constructed government machine. With a figure head who's authority is strongly checked by group consensus. That promises to care for each and every American from cradle to grave, is more understandable and appealing to Americans than a vague concept of a leaderless system that gives them more human dignity. Have you scene reality TV? Dignity is not important to these people.
P.S. would it kill these guys to include a spell check? I can use an animated facial expression, but if I want to spell correctly I have to write in my email then past it into here.

[Astarte]

lol nice IWW hat tom :lol:

Anyway, I'd hesistate on basing any kind of idea off Maher's audience, which may be the douchiest on all of television. It's like the liberal version of a Tea Party audience during a GOP debate.

Actually, I think a lot of the people that watch Maher, or Michael Moore for that matter are a lot more left than you may think but simply turn to liberals and reformists out of there being a lack of an alternative in the mainstream media.

[KurtFF8]

The main thing about being a revolutionary is doing the work that isn't itself revolutionary or part of a revolution. It's the talking to people every day, organizing demos that don't go well, selling papers (for some comrades ;) ), going to conferences, working within and with unions, doing office work for your group, raising funds, etc. etc.

These seemingly dull tasks are quite necessary. If someone told you that being a revolutionary leftist was romantic, you were lied to.

A real revolutionary has patience.

-----------------------------
On the things being discussed above: Michael Moore discussed how there will be a revolution on a recent episode of Keith Olberman's countdown (which was apparently relaunched) KrFQs5X-I1Y

[ericksolvi]

"Michael Moore could fart in a bucket and I'd applaud."
My mother after watching Bill Mayer last week. He might not be ideal in the eye's of many leftists, but he is very left leaning and has a lot of mainstream support.

[Rusty Shackleford]

have you even participated in the actions or work of any organization? Let alone made physical contact with any?

[Ele'ill]

Dimitri, I think you're gonna be fine where you're at. We need revolutionary socialists everywhere. I advocate traveling elsewhere but I would try to use it as a learning experience- an educational vacation of sorts. Organizing within the US is gonna be hard- it's also hard elsewhere. There are glimmers of hope though- lots of people upset in NY with the whole occupy wallstreet thing although that's not what I'd consider revolutionary socialist action. There was the ILWU action that Explosive Situation mentioned earlier in the thread here http://www.ilwu.org/

My personal advice would be to get involved right now. Don't let opportunities slip by because experience is an amazing thing. Use the forum as a secondary source to chat about your experiences- blog them even. I see that you live in Western New York State. If you want I can help you find some organizations near you that you might want to work with. I know several people living in/who have lived in that general area.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

On the things being discussed above: Michael Moore discussed how there will be a revolution on a recent episode of Keith Olberman's countdown (which was apparently relaunched) KrFQs5X-I1Y

As a sidenote, I like Keith's show more since it's been on Current than when it was on MSNBC.

[Dimitri Molotov]

You know what you should do? Join up with the crusties and crimethinc kids. After graduation, of course.

I mean, you're unlikely to bring about revolution doing so and you'll no doubt encounter some kooky primitivist types (and bad politics in general) and such, but it's a great learning experience nonetheless.

I would love to join up with the crusties! Haha a few minutes ago I was listening to Crack Rock Steady and just thinking about what it would be like to be a squatter, haha.

And I am starting to think the reason that it seems like nothing revolutionary is happening to me is because the only time I ever hear about it is here on Revleft. My primary news sources at home is crap like Fox and right wing radio because it is all my parents listen to. I probably just don't see it because they don't cover it, and if they do cover it they flip it around and accuse the left of something crazy like terrorism or hating America. Stuff like the recent ALF attack on the fur store and protests I didn't even know about until I got a chance to come on the computer.

[Obs]

I would love to join up with the crusties!
christ, couldn't it have been something less moronic. like an-caps.

[freethinker]

why is nobody talking Venezuela?