Putin 2012

[Iron Felix]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2094756,00.html

Putin is going to win the another 6 year term as President in 2012, and if he runs again in 2018, maybe another one. As expected, of course.

This is the future of my country, monarchy. And people ask me why I came to Sweden.

A funny future we have, with Putin in Russia and another Texas Cowboy in Washington. Can't wait until Israel invades Iran, that'll be fun.


(MOSCOW) — Vladimir Putin said Saturday he'll run for Russia's presidency in 2012, almost certainly ensuring he'll retake the office he previously held and likely foreshadowing years more of a strongman rule that many in the West have called a retreat from democracy. If Putin wins two presidential terms in a row, he will have been atop the Russian hierarchy for almost a quarter-century.
In nominating Putin on Saturday, his United Russia party also approved his proposal that President Dmitry Medvedev take over Putin's current role as prime minister. Putin took over the premiership after serving as president from 2000-2008, bowing to term limits. But he was always the more powerful figure, with Medvedev viewed as a caretaker president. During his presidency, Putin ruled Russia with a steely command, bringing about a system known as "managed democracy" that saw opposition politicians all but eliminated from the national eye. His personal popularity aided his maneuvering. Many Russians view Putin as the strong, decisive figure needed by a sprawling country troubled by corruption, an Islamist insurgency and massive economic inequality. (See pictures of Vladimir Putin as an adventure-seeker.) (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1914832,00.html)
Putin's nomination at a congress of the United Russia party end months of intense speculation as to whether he would seek to return to the Kremlin or whether he would allow the more mild-mannered and reform-leaning Medvedev to seek another term in next year's election.
The presidential election, to be held March 4, is preceded by national parliamentary elections on Dec. 4, in which United Russia will seek to retain its dominance; the party has 312 of the 450 seats in the current parliament. >The period for formal submission of presidential candidates' names has not yet begun, and it is unclear who might choose to challenge Putin for president. Constitutional changes have extended the presidential term to six years from four beginning in 2012, meaning Putin could stay on as president through 2024. (See Putin as TIME's 2007 person of the year.) (http://www.time.com/time/video/player/0,32068,1349157604_1861494,00.html)
As president, Medvedev called for improvements in Russia's unreliable court system and for efforts against the country's endemic corruption. But his initiatives have produced little tangible result. Moving Medvedev to the premiership could set him up to take the brunt of criticism for austerity measures that Putin has warned will be necessary for Russia amid global economic turmoil. Medvedev's advisers were clearly disappointed that he would not have another term in the Kremlin to try to continue pursuing reforms and bristled at political maneuverings.
Medvedev's presidency help hopes for change "but our political elite made a different decision and chose the path to so-called stability," Yevgeny Gontmakher of the Medvedev-established Institute for Contemporary Development think-tank, said on Ekho Moskvy radio. "This filthy deal of the country's supreme authorities is a blow to the institution of the presidency," Kremlin-connected analyst Gleb Pavlovsky told the radio station.
Putin started a carefully orchestrated series of maneuvers at Saturday's session of the party congress in a Moscow sports arena by proposing that Medvedev head the party list for the December elections. Medvedev then proposed that Putin be the party's presidential candidate, and Putin returned to the stage to accept the proposal and express support for Medvedev as prime minister.
On his return to the stage, he found the microphone had been turned off temporarily, but said with a smile "I will speak louder. My commander's voice has not yet been lost." The congress approved the moves with no apparent opposition. Despite apparently growing discontent among ordinary Russians with the party, United Russia exerts such an overwhelming presence in the country's politics that Putin's election and Medvedev's switch to the premiership is virtually ensured.
Many connect Putin with Russia's turnaround from post-Soviet poverty to prosperity, largely driven by high prices for Russia's vast supplies of oil and natural gas. But growing awareness of the need to move beyond a natural-resources economy could force Putin in a new term as president to pursue reforms, some analysts say. "I expect Putin will establish a very pro-business and pro-reform cabinet," said Chris Weafer, chief strategist of the Russian investment bank Troika Dialog. (See how the war on terror did Russia a favor.) (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2093529,00.html)
Putin also proposed Saturday that Russia's richest citizens face higher taxes. The flat income tax that came into effect during Putin's 2000-2008 presidency has been widely praised as improving tax collection and Putin's proposal would not change that, but he called for increases in consumption and real estate taxes that hit the rich comparatively harder.
Putin, who built his popularity on the back of strong economic growth, told the party congress on Friday that salaries and pensions would continue to grow, and he promised increased funding for education, health care and housing.
But he also cautioned that the government may need to take unpopular steps to cope with the global financial turmoil. "The task of the government is not only to pour honey into a cup, but sometimes to give bitter medicine," Putin said. "But this should always be done openly and honestly, and then the overwhelming majority of people will understand their government."


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2094756,00.html#ixzz1YspwLul9

[Triple A]

Since the times of tsars that russians didnt enjoy this much democracy.
Ah freedom.

[Nox]

That man has so much domination of Russian politics, its crazy.

I don't think anyone in history has dominated a democratic system as much as him. The only reason Medvedev came into power is because Putin backed him.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Hasn't anyone noticed the precedent of Medvedev nominating Putin for the presidency established during the late Soviet era?

[Smyg]

Oh how lovely. Democracy at its finest.

[Delenda Carthago]

My heart goes with all the democrats & antifascists of Russia.

[Dire Helix]

My heart goes with all the democrats & antifascists of Russia.

You should reconsider that. The ones who identify themselves as "democrats" in modern Russia are zoological anti-communists who are in many ways much more reactionary than Putin.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Oh how lovely. Democracy at its finest.

Certainly not Liberal Democracy at its finest, but perhaps Managed Democracy.

[Kiev Communard]

Meet the new caudillo, the same as the old one.

[Red Future]

The Russian Liberal -Democratic Party is despite its name deeply Right wing

[ComradeOmar]

Why is this guy always winning???

[Die Neue Zeit]

The Russian Liberal -Democratic Party is despite its name deeply Right wing

My post had nothing to do with Zhirinovsky's political outfit.

[Le Rouge]

Why is this guy always winning???

Kinda like Harper. We're stuck with him forever.

[Geiseric]

Isn't putin the richest man in europe? all i know is that he is very bad news. I hope all the russian comrades on the forum end up alright.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Putin is going to win the another 6 year term as President in 2012, and if he runs again in 2018, maybe another one. As expected, of course.

This is the future of my country, monarchy. And people ask me why I came to Sweden.

You're also liable to be stuck with Renfail until 2018, or further, as well. Things are pretty bad everywhere.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Certainly not Liberal Democracy at its finest, but perhaps Managed Democracy.

You must support it, then.:rolleyes:

[Le Socialiste]

Can't say I wasn't expecting this. It was only a matter of when they'd announce his return to the presidency, not if. Then again, Putin has such a massive presence in the political and financial establishment that it doesn't really matter where he is or what position he holds. Anyone who thought Medvedev was actually in charge of things was/is fooling themselves.

[Nismine]

I don't see why this is apparently so confusing to some people. It's an internal affair of Russia that is being dealt with very naturally. Each party will present their candidates and the one who gets the most votes becomes the president - what's undemocratic or monarchic about that?

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I don't see why this is apparently so confusing to some people. It's an internal affair of Russia that is being dealt with very naturally. Each party will present their candidates and the one who gets the most votes becomes the president - what's undemocratic or monarchic about that?

For real?

:closedeyes::closedeyes::closedeyes:

[Dimmu]

I don't see why this is apparently so confusing to some people. It's an internal affair of Russia that is being dealt with very naturally. Each party will present their candidates and the one who gets the most votes becomes the president - what's undemocratic or monarchic about that?


You are joking right?

In Russia at this moment there is no opposition because the ruling party United Russia destroyed it. TV and most of the media is state owned, OMON is breaking up any demonstrations that go against the "party's" line.

Russia is a former super power with a very large nuclear capacity and in this country the role of the future president is made from a private deal.

[DarkPast]

Certainly not Liberal Democracy at its finest, but perhaps Managed Democracy.

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/political-pictures-vladimir-putin-democracy-intersting-consider-it.jpg

[Delenda Carthago]

You should reconsider that. The ones who identify themselves as "democrats" in modern Russia are zoological anti-communists who are in many ways much more reactionary than Putin.
Thats intresting. Of course I was talkin to the meaning of democracy as it exists in the West, but could you elaborate on that a lil bit? I mean, here in Greece, the M-L movement(those filthy stalinists :cool:) have in a big priority the matter of democracy- and could easily be the by far most democratic part of the workers movement(anarchists included). How does this work in Russia?

[EvilRedGuy]

Pig!

Fucking Putin brainwashed my grandparents in Russia.

Ultra-nationalist fascist-supporting capitalist-scum.

[piet11111]

https://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/political-pictures-vladimir-putin-democracy-intersting-consider-it.jpg

Would be better with faked cyrilic letters.

[Wanted Man]

Can't say I wasn't expecting this. It was only a matter of when they'd announce his return to the presidency, not if. Then again, Putin has such a massive presence in the political and financial establishment that it doesn't really matter where he is or what position he holds. Anyone who thought Medvedev was actually in charge of things was/is fooling themselves.


For real?

:closedeyes::closedeyes::closedeyes:


You are joking right?

In Russia at this moment there is no opposition because the ruling party United Russia destroyed it. TV and most of the media is state owned, OMON is breaking up any demonstrations that go against the "party's" line.

Russia is a former super power with a very large nuclear capacity and in this country the role of the future president is made from a private deal.

This is pretty interesting stuff. So apparently the problem with Putin is not that he is a representative of a capitalist state. No, his great crime is that he is *ZOMG GASP* standing for another presidential term, and that his party apparently considers him the most suitable candidate, and that's WRONG!!!!

P7ZUFs04C6I

Not because of his fundamental nature as a leader of a capitalist state, but because he fails to live up to some kind of virtuous, more just variety of bourgeois rule, like in the free, democratic west where leaders respect term limits and, if you're unhappy with your conservative government, you can always vote in liberals or social-democrats. How blessed we are. If only the Russians could be more like us.

No doubt, these are the same people who would take offence to being called liberals.

[Delenda Carthago]

Millions more Russians shunted into poverty


• Huge rise in number living on less than £110 a month
• Decade of relative wealth under Putin wiped out


The stark social cost of Russia (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/russia)'s economic crisis was exposed today when new statistics revealed a 30% increase in the number of people living in poverty (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/07/russia-putin-policies-protests).
According to Russia's state committee on statistics, the figure for Russians living below the poverty line went up to 24.5 million during the first three months of this year – a steep increase from 18.5 million by the end of 2008.
The rise follows years in which Russians saw their living standards improve under the former president Vladimir Putin (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/vladimir-putin) (now prime minister), largely thanks to a buoyant oil (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/oil) price, and Russia's status as the world's largest gas exporter. This improvement has now come to a juddering halt.
Instead, more Russian families than ever before are sliding into poverty – defined as an adult income of less than 5,497 roubles, or £110, a month.
Writing in Kommersant newspaper the economist Dmitry Butrin said that Putin's relative success in fighting poverty over the last decade had been reversed. "The official poverty rate has gone up by precisely 6 million people. All of the gains in fighting poverty during the period 2000-2008 have been utterly wiped out," Butrin said.
Russia has suffered as much as any major economy by the global crisis; its economy shrank by about 9.5% in the first quarter of this year. It has pumped millions of dollars into bailing out its banking sector and helping strategic businesses, many of which are owned by well-connected oligarchs.
The Kremlin has recently been encouraged by a recovery in the price of oil to $70 a barrel – enough for it to maintain its federal budgets. There are also signs that employment figures, sinking ominously since last autumn, began rising in April.
One economist said the significance of the poverty figures should not be exaggerated. He said that they concealed wide regional differences in a country which has huge disparities in income between the elite, living in Moscow and St Petersburg, and those living in crumbling villages and single-factory industrial towns.
According to Natalia Zubarevich, a professor of economic geography at Moscow's state university, Russians are adept at dealing with crises; many grow vegetables in small kitchen gardens to survive, and others rely on a network of close relatives. Most willingly accept unpaid time off work, or reduced salaries, she added.
The rise in poverty levels did not pose a serious political challenge to the Kremlin, she said. "The (state-controlled) Russian media is quite clear who is responsible for the crisis. Foreigners are responsible, enemies are responsible and big business, especially, is responsible. But not Putin."
The rise in oil prices meant that there wasn't much prospect of social unrest in Russia, she suggested. "It's enough for people to remain quiet, socially and economically," she said.
The Kremlin has been determined to stamp out any whiff of insurrection after protesters in the town of Pikalyovo, 150 miles south east of St Petersburg, blocked a federal road earlier this year when their cement factory was shut down. Putin visited the town and forced its owner, the billionaire tycoon Oleg Deripaska, to reopen it. Regional governors were bluntly told to avoid similar incidents happening again.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/31/russia-economy-poverty-increase-putin

[Nox]

Isn't putin the richest man in europe? all i know is that he is very bad news. I hope all the russian comrades on the forum end up alright.

He doesn't declare his wealth, but judging from his stake in companies that we know about, plus lots more we don't know about, it's possible that he's the richest man in the world.

[Nicolai]

Russia is like Cuba; you don't know what in the world is happening up there...

[Dimmu]

Russia is like Cuba; you don't know what in the world is happening up there...

Actulally you do. You just need to read the Russian bloggers who are very vocal. The only problem is that you need to know Russian language.

[Dimmu]

This is pretty interesting stuff. So apparently the problem with Putin is not that he is a representative of a capitalist state. No, his great crime is that he is *ZOMG GASP* standing for another presidential term, and that his party apparently considers him the most suitable candidate, and that's WRONG!!!!

Not because of his fundamental nature as a leader of a capitalist state, but because he fails to live up to some kind of virtuous, more just variety of bourgeois rule, like in the free, democratic west where leaders respect term limits and, if you're unhappy with your conservative government, you can always vote in liberals or social-democrats. How blessed we are. If only the Russians could be more like us.

No doubt, these are the same people who would take offence to being called liberals.


Ah cmon..

You know exactly what most of us mean.. Its not like we are defending the " liberal democracy" in other countries.

I dont see your point when you use this argument. I am an anarchist so i dont need to explain my position on the issue of the "state". But i am also a realist and while "western liberal democracy" is crap as hell, but the Putin's Russia is even worse.

[Iron Felix]

Isn't putin the richest man in europe? all i know is that he is very bad news. I hope all the russian comrades on the forum end up alright.
He's certainly richer than anyone on the lists published by Forbes every year, at least implying the figures published by Forbes are not heavily underestimated.

[Wanted Man]

Ah cmon..

You know exactly what most of us mean.. Its not like we are defending the " liberal democracy" in other countries.

I dont see your point when you use this argument. I am an anarchist so i dont need to explain my position on the issue of the "state". But i am also a realist and while "western liberal democracy" is crap as hell, but the Putin's Russia is even worse.

Of course you are defending it. If you say that something is "even worse", then something else must necessarily be "better", otherwise what is the point of comparison? "I'm not saying that X is better than Y, but Y is definitely worse than X"?


Russia is like Cuba; you don't know what in the world is happening up there...

Seriously?


Actulally you do. You just need to read the Russian bloggers who are very vocal. The only problem is that you need to know Russian language.

I think this says enough about your perspectives when you think that "just" reading blogs is enough to understand what's going on somewhere. I'm willing to bet that out of the 1.1 million Yabloko (liberal party voted out of parliament in 2007) voters, there are more bloggers than amongst the 8 million KPRF voters.

Reading blogs necessarily gives a very skewed perspective. If you wanted to understand American society solely by reading blogs, you would think that Obama became president by beating Ron Paul in fraudulent elections in which voters were massively intimidated by communist terrorists and black and hispanic gangsters. Fuck bloggers.

qTV5GLB36A0

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

putin is running again



from me with a shotgun:laugh:

[Dimmu]

Of course you are defending it. If you say that something is "even worse", then something else must necessarily be "better", otherwise what is the point of comparison? "I'm not saying that X is better than Y, but Y is definitely worse than X"?

No, i do not defend anything. But you cannot not admit that there is a difference lets say between the political situation in Germany and in Russia.




I think this says enough about your perspectives when you think that "just" reading blogs is enough to understand what's going on somewhere. I'm willing to bet that out of the 1.1 million Yabloko (liberal party voted out of parliament in 2007) voters, there are more bloggers than amongst the 8 million KPRF voters.

Reading blogs necessarily gives a very skewed perspective. If you wanted to understand American society solely by reading blogs, you would think that Obama became president by beating Ron Paul in fraudulent elections in which voters were massively intimidated by communist terrorists and black and hispanic gangsters. Fuck bloggers.Dude, i was born in Russia and i speak Russian fluently so i know exactly what goes on in that country.

So how do you get your news from Russia?

[EvilRedGuy]

Please don't defend Putin's or Gaddafi's regime, its liberal capitalism minus the freedom of speech, so basically its the same shit send down with a extra bucket of shit.

[Iron Felix]

I believe one of us doesn't know where he is.

No it is not, the role of the future president will be decided through elections. The only irregularity that I can find here is that Putin has done two presidential terms in the past and would therefore be ineligible for another term due to constitutional limits but I bet no one here was upset when Hugo Chavez put an end to term limits.

EDIT: Apparently the Russian constitution only limits presidents to serve two consecutive terms which means it is not an irregularity after all. His party thinks Putin is suitable for another term, I don't see what is undemocratic about that. The rest will be decided by the Russian people.
Certainly these elections will be fair like the ones preceding them, right? Right? Yeah, no.

[Geiseric]

Oh my god. Did somebody just say that bourgeois capitalist elections are really the end all arguement for who should be in power? we better fucking give up while we're ahead then, because a communist party is never gonna be elected! Whoever has the most posters around town and whoever has the ruling class's support wins. Elections don't matter for shit, but I guess since you're a castroist you believe in elections, even if there's only one candidate XD

[Delenda Carthago]

Certainly these elections will be fair like the ones preceding them, right? Right? Yeah, no.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/21/gorbachev-birthday-putin-democracy-russia

[Le Socialiste]

Don't tell me some of you support this guy?

Next someone's going to tell me Putin's an anti-imperialist defending the motherland from the attacks and influences of the West. :rolleyes:

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

This isn't surprising, bourgeois elections are nothing but fixed smoke and mirror acts anyway, carry on.

[Geiseric]

Ok then, which other political parties exist in cuba except for castro's? And the "communist" party is elected in russia too, doesn't mean it's popular. the truth of the matter is that elections are only an indicator of who has tricked enough members of the working class into voting for them. The republicans being elected doesn't mean they should be elected!

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

This is pretty interesting stuff. So apparently the problem with Putin is not that he is a representative of a capitalist state. No, his great crime is that he is *ZOMG GASP* standing for another presidential term, and that his party apparently considers him the most suitable candidate, and that's WRONG!!!!

P7ZUFs04C6I

Not because of his fundamental nature as a leader of a capitalist state, but because he fails to live up to some kind of virtuous, more just variety of bourgeois rule, like in the free, democratic west where leaders respect term limits and, if you're unhappy with your conservative government, you can always vote in liberals or social-democrats. How blessed we are. If only the Russians could be more like us.

No doubt, these are the same people who would take offence to being called liberals.

Can one not criticise him for being Capitalistic (and everything you say) as well as dictatorial? :rolleyes:

Oh, what a liberal I am!

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Ok then, which other political parties exist in cuba except for castro's? And the "communist" party is elected in russia too, doesn't mean it's popular. the truth of the matter is that elections are only an indicator of who has tricked enough members of the working class into voting for them. The republicans being elected doesn't mean they should be elected!

Cuba and Russia are not comparable. Cuba is still 'Socialist', officially. Fidel Castro (if not Socialism) is genuinely popular as an individual, still (not that he holds office). Cuba has some local-level, genuine democracy.

Russia's size makes the centralisation of power all the more crass and idiotic.

[DaringMehring]

Putin's regime is proof that the socialized property relations were not the source of Russia's problems with authoritarianism.

[Die Neue Zeit]

You must support it, then.:rolleyes:

The subject of term limits is irrelevant to both the illusory notion of growing political struggles out of mere labour disputes and general political struggles with a program based on radical democratic theory (Chartism, Paris Commune, Arendt's councilism, Demarchy, etc.).

[Sheepy]

This means more pictures of him shirtless, killing bears and tigers. It's all he ever does instead of governing his own fucking country.

I'm going to agree with Gorbachev and say Putin should not be allowed another term, he did enough damage as it is.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Of course you are defending it. If you say that something is "even worse", then something else must necessarily be "better", otherwise what is the point of comparison? "I'm not saying that X is better than Y, but Y is definitely worse than X"?


I mean, there definitely are capitalist nations that are better for leftist organizations to exist in, though, right? Is political organization easier in the Netherlands or Syria? Is life easier in a liberal capitalist state, despite it's many flaws, or a brutal kleptocracy? (I'm not saying that Russia is a total dictatorship, just pointing out that there are differences between states...not on a fundamental nature, but still important.)

Also, when people say things like this:


The rest will be decided by the Russian people.

Really? The "Russian people", huh? Sounds a lot like the will of "the American people", which I've been hearing so much about in the GOP debates lately.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Gorbachev and say Putin should not be allowed another term, he did enough damage as it is.

That's the pot calling the kettle black. :rolleyes:

[Crux]

Communist parties have been elected in Moldova and Cyprus for instance and will continue to be so as long as they offer a credible alternative. Of course you might view them as credible, but I do not think the Communist Party of Moldova or AKEL are that credible, in communist terms.




Are you kidding? Gorbachev's claims are completely deprived of substance, purelly unfounded accusations.

"We have everything – a parliament, courts, a president, a prime minister and so on. But it's more of an imitation,"

How?

"It's not Putin's business. It must be decided by the nation in elections."

It's not Putin's business whether or not he should run for president? Who told Gorbachev there won't be elections?

He should probably keep doing Pizza Hutt commercials because it's obvious he has no credibility in Russian politics, like his attempts at establishing a political party show. If anything is a "sham" it was his leadership.
Ah, a diversion by changing the subject to Gorbachev. How clever.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ AttackGr changed the subject to Gorbachev, not Nismine. :glare:

[el_chavista]

It is interesting how the article about Putin in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#cite_note-32)use the term "the family" as when it says "Yeltsin let Putin entering the family". What family? "Vito Corleone's"? :lol:


On 15 June 2000, The Times reported that Spanish police discovered that Putin had secretly visited a villa in Spain belonging to the oligarch Boris Berezovsky on up to five different occasions in 1999.[47]

[47] Tremlett, Giles (2000-06-15). "Leader's secret holidays to Spain". The Times. Retrieved 2007-04-29.

It seems that Boris Berezovsky funded Putin's candidacy in the beginning.

[Geiseric]

who's berezovsky?

[Queercommie Girl]

You're also liable to be stuck with Renfail until 2018, or further, as well. Things are pretty bad everywhere.

Agree. The OP shouldn't think that Sweden is much better.

[Die Neue Zeit]

who's berezovsky?

One of the notorious Oligarchs.