I hate the Republican Party

[RichardAWilson]

I know financiers are exploitative, irregardless of their political color. However, the Republicans are much worse than the liberal bourgeoisie. The Republicans, including the Tea Party Branch, have no intention of balancing our books.

The Republican Agenda is based on "Starving the Beast," which means running massive deficits to undermine social programs in the longer-term. In the short-term, this Agenda has been manifested in Trickle Down Economics and Imperial Escapades in the Arab World.

Furthermore, the political right-wing is scattered with morons and hypocrites that claim to advocate less state intrusion, while supporting more intrusion in our personal lives (I.e. Gay Marriage, Reproductive Choice, Euthanasia and Marijuana).

America's Modern Republican Party has come to resemble a watered down Nazi-Party that wouldn't mind turning us into a Banana Republic to enforce a Polarized Christian Plutocracy on us.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Well,they are not Nazi by any stretch but that doesn't mean they aren't shit heads.

[RichardAWilson]

Let them have their way and see how long until we're in even more wars and homosexuals are rounded into Christian Rehabilitative Camps.

[Luc]

I hate them too, everything the say is either stupid or offensive

makes me want to read Johann Most:cursing:

[RichardAWilson]

The sad thing is that there are still political moderates here in America that vote Republican. I feel for them because the Republicans will never move to the center. More and more of them are realizing this and have been switching to the Democrats, which are as center as center can be.

[¿Que?]

The Republicans have completely lost touch...not with the people but with the real powers that be, the bankers and greedy capitalist class. Even the ruling class has lost faith in the republicans, ergo, the lesser of two evils, Obama and the Democrats.

[ColonelCossack]

America's Modern Republican Party has come to resemble a watered down Nazi-Party that wouldn't mind turning us into a Banana Republic to enforce a Polarized Christian Plutocracy on us.

Ya don't say...

[Drosophila]

It's kind of a shame to think that one of the founders of their party (Abraham Lincoln) was supported by Karl Marx. After the Civil War the Republican Party turned into a madhouse of corrupted, bigoted assholes.

[Skooma Addict]

I don't really like either party. I would prefer free markets for the most part along with regulations where necessary combined with liberal social policies. No party supports this.

However, I do despise the "liberal" culture and most of the interest groups that are stereotypically liberal. I just can't stand feminists (aka present and future cat ladies), the animal rights groups, people who support affirmative action, ect. The special interest groups typically associated with Republicans aren't as bad disregarding the bible freaks.

[Judicator]

How much of what you said do you think is applicable to the Republican-voting electorate? Can you really blame a party for giving (some of) the people what they want?

[Drosophila]

How much of what you said do you think is applicable to the Republican-voting electorate? Can you really blame a party for giving (some of) the people what they want?

I wasn't aware that 2% of over 200 million justified the policies of the GOP.

[ponymaruni]

The only thing that i agree with is that republicans are against abortions and gay marriage but besides that the whole party is messed up

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

The only thing that i agree with is that republicans are against abortions and gay marriage but besides that the whole party is messed up

Go fuck yourself.

[Skooma Addict]

Go fuck yourself.

You are weird.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

You are weird.

How so? He might like it.


what exactly is wrong with being a homophobic communist organization. What i feel is that a lot of you soft wanna be communists on this forum are always trying to combine the idea of sexuality to communism. Just like a lot of you people actually think a communist revolution can occur without violence so you just sit here writing on the website. Nothing wrong with being a communist and a homophobic individual.

as the user said in another thread, which is what was restricted for

[Skooma Addict]

How so?

Just based on what I have seen from your posts in general, you seem weird....and on crack.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Just based on what I have seen from your posts in general, you seem weird....and on crack.

That's funny because I've never even been drunk. :rolleyes:

[ProletarianResurrection]

Just based on what I have seen from your posts in general, you seem weird....and on crack.

Great argument.

Its hard looking at humanity in space and time to say anything is objectively weird.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

I hate the Republican party and I hate this thread.

/thread.

[Skooma Addict]

Great argument.

Its hard looking at humanity in space and time to say anything is objectively weird.Any time a non-scientist says "space an time" I know they are on some substance. What Exactly? Idk,you tell me.

[ProletarianResurrection]

Any time a non-scientist says "space an time" I know they are on some substance. What Exactly? Idk,you tell me.

Okay so we have learnt that you hang out with druggies and I think that is all that can be taken from your post.

[Skooma Addict]

Okay so we have learnt that you hang out with druggies and I think that is all that can be taken from your post.

Don't hate on druggies. You do want some people to support your cause don't you?

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

Any time a non-scientist says "space an time" I know they are on some substance. What Exactly? Idk,you tell me.

I'm on PCP.

Stfu + Gtfo.

[ProletarianResurrection]

Don't hate on druggies. You do want some people to support your cause don't you?

Another thing we dont have in common.

[ProletarianResurrection]

You do want some people to support your cause don't you?

Yes my neighbours, workmates and friends.

Your type, I couldnt care less.

[#FF0000]

Yes my neighbours, workmates and friends.

Your type, I couldnt care less.

you know lots of workers use drugs once in awhile right.

[ProletarianResurrection]

you know lots of workers use drugs once in awhile right.


True enough, but who said you had like every single prole?

If people wanna waste their spare time watching cartoons, giggling and wacking off thats their business.

[RichardAWilson]

There's no reason for name calling, as it shows one's ignorance.

Furthermore, this is a progressive forum and, with that being the case, isn't a suitable location for homophobia, sexism and bigoted men.

Socialism is concerned with liberation and ending oppression, whereas homophobia is concerned with perpetuating fear, hatred and oppression.

A so-called homophobic communist is worse than a Republican.

[Rocky Rococo]

Personally I love the Republican Party. It's great having a major, leading bourgeois entity that spares us the self-serving malarkey about what great humanitarians our rulers all are, and goes straight for doubling down on the hegemony with no pretenses. It restores clarity to political thought and political process that the slow poisoning fog of Democrat half-truths and misdirections suffocates resistance in.

[khad]

The Republicans have completely lost touch...not with the people but with the real powers that be, the bankers and greedy capitalist class. Even the ruling class has lost faith in the republicans, ergo, the lesser of two evils, Obama and the Democrats.
Then how do you explain the fact that those in the highest income brackets consistently favor the Republicans?

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/US/H/00/epolls.0.html

VOTE BY INCOME
INCOME..........%Electorate.......Democrat.......R epublican
Under $15,000......(7%)...............67%............... 30%
$15-30,000.........(12%)...............61%............ ...36%
$30-50,000.........(21%)...............56%............ ...43%
$50-75,000.........(22%)...............50%............ ...48%
$75-100,000.......(16%)...............52%............. ..47%
$100-150,000.....(13%)................47%.............. .51%
$150-200,000......(5%)................47%.............. .51%
$200,000 or More.(5%)................45%...............53%

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
INCOME..............................BUSH.........K ERRY
Under $15,000 (8%)…………..….36%……….….63%
$15-30,000 (15%)……………...….42%……….….57%
$30-50,000 (22%)……………...….49%……….….50%
$50-75,000 (23%)……………….…56%……….….43%
$75-100,000 (14%)…………….….55%……….….45%
$100-150,000 (11%))………….….57%……….….42%
$150-200,000 (4%)…………....….58%……….….42%
$200,000 or More (3%)…….….…63%……….….35%

[RichardAWilson]

You're wrong. Upper-income households do lean Republican. However, the upper-income of the upper-income often lean Democratic. (Warren Buffet, Bill Gates and Wall St's Fund Managers). There are, after all, massive inequalities even among the upper classes.

Chelsea Clinton, for instance, is married to a hedge fund manager whose father is serving time in prison for financial fraud.

The Democrats have been conducting fundraiser after fundraiser in Manhattan, bringing in large donations from Board Members and Directors of Wall St's Commercial Banks.

More billionaires are Democrats than Republicans. Indeed, around three-fourths of billionaires are registered Democrats.

http://www.opensecrets.org/parties/index.php

The Democrats have raised much more than the Republicans.

http://www.opensecrets.org/parties/indus.php?cycle=2010&cmte=DPC

The Democrats raised as much from Wall St. (I.e. Investment Banking and Insurance) as the Republicans. The Democrats also raised three times as much from Silicon Valley (I.e. Electronics, Information Technology and Communications) as the Republicans.

Why do you think Bill Clinton supported financial deregulation? Why do you think this Administration has done more to avoid regulating Wall St. than it has done to defend America's consumers and homeowners?

[RGacky3]

The United STates is going to hell in a handbasket and the patriotic idiots that still want to hold on to the American style of republicanism and the moronic self destructive economic policies are gonna go down chearing.

[#FF0000]

True enough, but who said you had like every single prole?

If people wanna waste their spare time watching cartoons, giggling and wacking off thats their business.

oh boy its like sunday school all over again

[Skooma Addict]

If people wanna waste their spare time watching cartoons, giggling and wacking off thats their business.

That is what I call the American dream.

[Bud Struggle]

The United STates is going to hell in a handbasket ...

Well that may be true for some people but for lots of people it couldn't be better.

[#FF0000]

Well that may be true for some people but for lots of people it couldn't be better.

you are out of your mind if you believe this.

[Bud Struggle]

you are out of your mind if you believe this.

I think for 20% of America--things are definitely difficult--but for 80% of the people--it's just business as usual--and for some things have definitely gotten better.

I agree that for Blacks and lower class whites--especially those who's savings was tied to the price of their homes, things are bad. The unemployed don't have a lot going for them, especially those without a skill. But that's just the say America's turning. For a long time people could afford to just he a HS grad or even not graduate from HS and the country would take them along.

Also college grads used to be able to major in "fluffy" subjects like English or History and still find places n the workforce. Now things have gotten more competiive--and I don't think that's generall a bad thing. Or maybe it is, I'm not sure. But it really doesn't matter what I think--that's just the way it is.

But anyway you look at it Americans and America has to be leaner and more competitive in the global market. Those willing to run the extra mile will do well.

These days you just can't expect he government or your company of whomever to do things for you. You have to do it for yourself.

[ProletarianResurrection]

These days you just can't expect he government or your company of whomever to do things for you. You have to do it for yourself.

You mean unless you are a wealthy parasite.

[ProletarianResurrection]

I admire the Republican Party, they are able to give people a "dream", a "vision", plenty working folk out their in the heartland who are happy to be "free and poor" and have their kids turned into body bag filler. Yep, the left makes perfect rational sense, but it seems totally uninterested in supplying a vision that will give people something to live by.

Something to think about.

[Triple A]

A thread on revleft saying I hate the republican party.
Wow thats a new feeling arround here

[ponymaruni]

who are you to tell me whats messed up

[Bud Struggle]

I admire the Republican Party, they are able to give people a "dream", a "vision", plenty working folk out their in the heartland who are happy to be "free and poor" and have their kids turned into body bag filler. Yep, the left makes perfect rational sense, but it seems totally uninterested in supplying a vision that will give people something to live by.

Something to think about.

Good point. They don't have or don't want a "communal vision." They want and are working for people to have the right and ability to develop their own individual visions.

To me, both dreams are an impossibility.

[ponymaruni]

communists historically speaking have never favored homosexuals

[ProletarianResurrection]

Good point. They don't have or don't want a "communal vision." They want and are working for people to have the right and ability to develop their own individual visions.

To me, both dreams are an impossibility.

Who the Republicans? The Republicans very much have a communal vision, they give out a dream for people to aspire too that gives them a sense of unity, unity with the added spice of "rugged individualism" but its the individualism that aspires to be like everyone else if you get my drift. Or do you mean the left? I think that is true of the US left to a degree and its completely utopian given the level of human development in this country, but sometimes I believe that the left just wants to bask in its knowing cynical coolness.

[ProletarianResurrection]

who are you to tell me whats messed up

Would you rather dig ditches for a bowl of rice a day? :)

[ponymaruni]

whats wrong with that

[ProletarianResurrection]

whats wrong with that

Thats the spirit! :)

[Bud Struggle]

communists historically speaking have never favored homosexuals

Maybe I missed something--but what's the point of that remark?

[#FF0000]

Maybe I missed something--but what's the point of that remark?

He's a homophobe who doesn't know shit about the free-love environment that existed after 1917 in Russia.

[#FF0000]

I think for 20% of America--things are definitely difficult--but for 80% of the people--it's just business as usual--and for some things have definitely gotten better.

I agree that for Blacks and lower class whites--especially those who's savings was tied to the price of their homes, things are bad. The unemployed don't have a lot going for them, especially those without a skill. But that's just the say America's turning. For a long time people could afford to just he a HS grad or even not graduate from HS and the country would take them along.

Also college grads used to be able to major in "fluffy" subjects like English or History and still find places n the workforce. Now things have gotten more competiive--and I don't think that's generall a bad thing. Or maybe it is, I'm not sure. But it really doesn't matter what I think--that's just the way it is.

But anyway you look at it Americans and America has to be leaner and more competitive in the global market. Those willing to run the extra mile will do well.

These days you just can't expect he government or your company of whomever to do things for you. You have to do it for yourself.

Unemployment is higher than the numbers say. People are massively undermployed. Youth unemployment is the highest in history. College tuition is still going higher and higher.

Man maybe it is just me being a working person (who still somehow managed to find a $13 an hour job, temp or not, in these times) but I don't see many people who are "doing fine". Even people with jobs are facing serious insecurity.

[ponymaruni]

go suck a dick

[RichardAWilson]

It damn sure won't be yours. No self-respecting man, or woman, would have anything to do with yours. It's probably really small, which is why you have to overcompensate with your perceived "manhood" via homophobia and sexism.

[#FF0000]

go suck a dick

ahahahah are you upset, kid?

I mean I'm sorry the idea of boys kissing rustles your jimmies so much but maybe it wouldn't be a problem if you grew up or something

[ponymaruni]

yeah yeah yeah. all you gay supportors be taking it in the back secretly

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

yeah yeah yeah. all you gay supportors be taking it in the back secretly

Hell, you're not even trying now, are you, shit-troll?

[#FF0000]

yeah yeah yeah. all you gay supportors be taking it in the back secretly

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Psychological_projection

[RichardAWilson]

Well, at least someone will be getting some action, which is more than you and your small thing will be seeing.

[Demogorgon]

who are you to tell me whats messed up
Gay people and people wanting abortions ask the same thing.

[Luc]

communists historically speaking have never favored homosexuals

historically "communists" have also not been communists

can't believe no one pointed that out :lol:

[Revolution starts with U]

Studies show homophobic males tend to be more sexually aroused by visions of homosexual male intercourse than even homosexual males do... imagine that :rolleyes:

[ProletarianResurrection]

Studies show homophobic males tend to be more sexually aroused by visions of homosexual male intercourse than even homosexual males do... imagine that :rolleyes:

Yeah only he probably isnt homophobic and he is just trying to get a reaction out of people.

[ProletarianResurrection]

Whatever though its pathetic and annoying. Its not like mandatory gay sex is being forced by the state anywhere.

[Drosophila]

Well that may be true for some people but for lots of people it couldn't be better.

"Lots of people" meaning about 300 or so?

[Tomhet]

If people wanna waste their spare time watching cartoons, giggling and wacking off thats their business.Why is this a bad thing?

[ponymaruni]

hahahaha its funny how you guys go out of your way to support these people smh. come out the closet please

[eric922]

hahahaha its funny how you guys go out of your way to support these people smh. come out the closet please
Oh, no you implied I'm gay, that's so insulting. Or it would be if was still in middle-school. Unlike you, I'm not in middle-school anymore.

[ponymaruni]

small wang? lmao. go to bed, take a nap or something. its apparent that im dealing with a 5th grader

[Catmatic Leftist]

small wang? lmao. go to bed, take a nap or something. its apparent that im dealing with a 5th grader

http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/users12/alanana9/default/homophobia-is-gay--large-prf-1159901123.jpg
http://munfitnessblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/handsom-gay-couple-kissing.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AKat9k5VF4k/SldXPEe9fpI/AAAAAAAAAK0/0GLQZB7CxYo/s400/homosexual_men_kissing_obama_anti-doma.jpg

Enjoy. :)

[Os Cangaceiros]

:bored: < my expression when reading this entire thread.

[¿Que?]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/customavatars/avatar14692_46.gif ^ my impression when reading this response.

[ponymaruni]

im sure you enjoyed those pics. you probly chokin the chicken as we speak. smh

[Commissar Rykov]

im sure you enjoyed those pics. you probly chokin the chicken as we speak. smh
Are you scared of touching your penis as well? God you must live your whole life in fear when it comes to taking a piss.

[eric922]

im sure you enjoyed those pics. you probly chokin the chicken as we speak. smh
You know you'd be a lot happier if you just admitted your feelings. Projection just makes things worse.

[ponymaruni]

hahahaha youre hilarious man. made my night

[ponymaruni]

man you gay loving commies are hilarious damn. im here laughing with you guys

[Geiseric]

I tried skipping the 1st post, and going right to the last page to try using context clues to see what the thread is about, and so far i'm lost. Ughhh.

[eric922]

hahahaha youre hilarious man. made my night
I'm just trying to help you. You really would be happier if you just admitted your real feelings, projection really does just make you feel worse.

[ponymaruni]

help yourself my dude looks like your passionate about defending people like yourself

[eric922]

help yourself my dude looks like your passionate about defending people like yourself
I'm actually passionate about defending everyone who is oppressed regardless of whether or not I share their race, sexuality, country, class, etc. Which is why I am a socialist it is the only ideology that consistently stands up for the oppressed. Oh, and I don't need to help myself. I know who I am.

[RichardAWilson]

White redneck trailer park trash...

[Commissar Rykov]

help yourself my dude looks like your passionate about defending people like yourself
Is it fun being a Red Alert Communist? I have never had that phase but I imagine it is a lot like the typical teenage nihilist fascist.

[ponymaruni]

im a communist and your point is?

[Commissar Rykov]

im a communist and your point is?
If you are a communist then I am the Virgin Mary.

[ponymaruni]

btw rapers and drug dealers feel oppressed as well. so why wont you stand up for them?

[ponymaruni]

communist is what i am my man. although i will say that im dissapointed and disgusted with you comrades

[eric922]

btw rapers and drug dealers feel oppressed as well. so why wont you stand up for them?
You mean the drug dealers who are forced into a dangerous job because the capitalist system has failed them. The drug dealers who are being exploited by criminal bourgeois? I think we should legalize all drugs, so then their job wouldn't be illegal.

[eric922]

communist is what i am my man. although i will say that im dissapointed and disgusted with you comrades
First of all, we are disgusted with you. Secondly, don't call us comrades, we are not your comrades. You are reactionary trash.

[RichardAWilson]

I concur. He's either one or the other. (Reactionary Trash vs. Troll?)

He hasn't even tried to defend his position, which has led me to wonder if he's a troll.

[ponymaruni]

what about individuals who practice beastiality and have intercourse with pigs and horses, would you defend them cuz i only defend things that are normal and homosexuality in my mind isnt normal

[ponymaruni]

damn man you hurt my feelings. i feel sad. lmao fuck outta here

[RichardAWilson]

That's the same case Republicans like to make. (Reactionary Trash)

How is homosexuality "abnormal" when it's commonly found among mammals? On the other hand, you don't see a cow banging a chicken.

Furthermore, homosexuality can be traced to genetics. "Bestiality" is, at the most justifiable degree, a compulsive disorder.

You claim to be a Communist. Well, Communism is supposed to be rooted in science and reason. Your position is rooted in ignorance and fear.

[RichardAWilson]

Nonetheless, given your low-life comments on "sucking dick" and "getting rammed," I won't be adding much more reasoning. You're either of sub-par intelligence, a troll, or you're trash.

[ponymaruni]

homosexuality isnt reproductive therefore not normal. thank you

[ponymaruni]

im all 3 but youre wasting your time with me so what does that make you?

[RichardAWilson]

Bored... :) It's midnight and I didn't feel like going to the gay club tonight.:)

[eric922]

im all 3 but youre wasting your time with me so what does that make you?
Very very bored.

[RGacky3]

What about a woman giving you oral sex?

[#FF0000]

yall are so easily trolled

[Le Rouge]

homosexuality isnt reproductive therefore not normal. thank you

Define normality. thank you

[Catmatic Leftist]

yall are so easily trolled

break out the animal pics?

actually, I think gay people making out would be more fitting.

[RichardAWilson]

He has probably never fucked, so he might not know about blow jobs.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

homosexuality isnt reproductive therefore not normal. thank you

Using protection isn't reproductive and not normal hurrrrr.

Just go retreat into an antiquated cave somewhere in a swamp far from human habitation. Then maybe we will promise not to turn you homosexual with our sinister satanic gay conspiracy agenda.

[Klaatu]

I know financiers are exploitative, irregardless of their political color. However, the Republicans are much worse than the liberal bourgeoisie. The Republicans, including the Tea Party Branch, have no intention of balancing our books.

The Republican Agenda is based on "Starving the Beast," which means running massive deficits to undermine social programs in the longer-term. In the short-term, this Agenda has been manifested in Trickle Down Economics and Imperial Escapades in the Arab World.

Furthermore, the political right-wing is scattered with morons and hypocrites that claim to advocate less state intrusion, while supporting more intrusion in our personal lives (I.e. Gay Marriage, Reproductive Choice, Euthanasia and Marijuana).

America's Modern Republican Party has come to resemble a watered down Nazi-Party that wouldn't mind turning us into a Banana Republic to enforce a Polarized Christian Plutocracy on us.

Arguing/debating with them will get you nowhere either. These people are so thick-headed, it's unbelievable.

The thing to do is to bring up the topic of a system where there is no unemployment, no poor, no war, no bloated national debt, no social injustices... and see if people think you are describing an ideal society... then tell them that this is what Socialism is all about.

Even ReStupid-licans cannot deny that these are desirable things to achieve. (or can they?)

[Smyg]

Meh. Just ban this fucker and be done with it. :closedeyes:

[Bud Struggle]

Meh. Just ban this fucker and be done with it. :closedeyes:


NO!!!!!

I love that guy. Up to now us Capitalists have had all the bigots, racists, and general nasty people--it's about time you Commies had one of them!

Now see how you like it. :D :p

[Rafiq]

Why are you excluding the Democrats, as if they are any better?

The Democrats are just as much class enemies to the working class as the republicans. I see no distinction, no spectrum line between them.

[RichardAWilson]

The Democrats aren't sexists, racists and anti-homosexual.

[tfb]

First of all, we are disgusted with you. Secondly, don't call us comrades, we are not your comrades. You are reactionary trash.

This is besides the point, and I don't mean to defend this homophobe; I just want to figure something out:

Shouldn't anyone be able to call anyone a "comrade"? Whether they're friends or share their politics or not? I thought it was just to replace hierarchical forms of address.

[Drosophila]

man you gay loving commies are hilarious damn. im here laughing with you guys

When are you going to get banned? Fucking troll.

[ProletarianResurrection]

Who the Republicans? The Republicans very much have a communal vision, they give out a dream for people to aspire too that gives them a sense of unity, unity with the added spice of "rugged individualism" but its the individualism that aspires to be like everyone else if you get my drift. Or do you mean the left? I think that is true of the US left to a degree and its completely utopian given the level of human development in this country, but sometimes I believe that the left just wants to bask in its knowing cynical coolness.


Bump aimed at BudStruggle.

Can we forget the saddo who is pretending what adults get up to consentually is his business?

[ComradeGrant]

This thread is disappointing in that it lacks tons and tons of cute animals. Maybe gay people holding cute animals?

[ponymaruni]

hahahaha

[ponymaruni]

yall get so angered over opinions. aint i entitled to a little opinion every now and then?

[eric922]

yall get so angered over opinions. aint i entitled to a little opinion every now and then?
This is my last post to you, but I feel like you accidentally raised a good point. There comes a time when we can't tolerate dangerous hateful opinions in the name of tolerance, because if you had power we know you wouldn't. This quote sums it up:"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them...We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.Karl Popper.

[Catmatic Leftist]

hahahaha


yall get so angered over opinions. aint i entitled to a little opinion every now and then?

http://www.idstyle.com/safari/animals/lion-041.jpg

[Le Rouge]

hahahaha

Oh... it's you again...

Edit: Yay 100th post my all time record on forums.

[#FF0000]

yall get so angered over opinions. aint i entitled to a little opinion every now and then?

sometimes opinions are so dumb it is deeply offensive

[ponymaruni]

no opinion is dumb.

[Le Rouge]

no opinion is dumb.

:thumbup1: thank you troll. I think it's time for you to leave. Farewell.

[ponymaruni]

you see communism throughout history was against homosexuality. I be 100 percent that if you asked marx what he thought about homosexuality you would see. Ask stalin or castro. Ask mao while youre at it as well. But then again im tired of wasting my time on you homophilics

[Catmatic Leftist]

you see communism throughout history was against homosexuality. I be 100 percent that if you asked marx what he thought about homosexuality you would see. Ask stalin or castro. Ask mao while youre at it as well. But then again im tired of wasting my time on you homophilics

...and we've found out more about homosexuals now with technological advances and scientific exploration.

Communism is about science and reason and adapting to the world as new information presents itself, not dogmatically following leaders (most of whom are dead).

[RichardAWilson]

No thank you, I'd rather ask Hitler about his view on homosexuality. (Joking)

Marx never wrote on homosexuality. However, given Marx's tolerance and open-mindedness on women (Universal Suffrage) and African Americans, I think he'd back us.

Furthermore, I'd note that Cuba is starting to make serious progress with regard to Gays, Lesbians and Bisexuals.


In his autobiography My Life, Castro has criticized the "machismo" culture of Cuba and urged for the acceptance of homosexuality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Cuba


In 1979, Cuba removed sodomy from its criminal code,


Educational campaigns on LGBT issues are currently implemented by the National Center for Sex Education, headed by Mariela Castro.

Even the transgenders are making progress in Cuba:


Cuban citizens can have sex reassignment surgery for free.

Like I said, you're a moron. Everyone is entitled to an educated opinion. Your opinion borders on a cow's. - Even though a cow should have more rights than you. A cow feels compassion.


In 1994, the popular feature film Strawberry and Chocolate, produced by the government-run Cuban film industry, featuring a gay main character, examined the nation's homophobia.

This is, after all, a case of transitional socialism. Cuba was, in 1959, a backwards and Vatican dominated nation with traditional values and beliefs. However, as the nation has evolved and progressed, it has learned to question those beliefs and has abandoned the Vatican.

[RichardAWilson]

Here's another one:


After the February 1917 Russian Revolution under the leadership of Lenin and Trotsky, the USSR abolished previous laws against homosexuality.

[RichardAWilson]

N/A

[#FF0000]

you see communism throughout history was against homosexuality. I be 100 percent that if you asked marx what he thought about homosexuality you would see. Ask stalin or castro. Ask mao while youre at it as well. But then again im tired of wasting my time on you homophilics

Except after the very first "communist" revolution in 1917 where the official line on homosexuality was "sexuality is no person's business but their own"

[#FF0000]

Shit, son. Maoist guerillas in the Phillipines even had a big ol' gay wedding for some of their guys.

[ponymaruni]

i still stand by my opinion. so blow me if you disagree and hasta la victoria siempre. im out

[Commissar Rykov]

i still stand by my opinion. so blow me if you disagree and hasta la victoria siempre. im out
Of the closet?

[RichardAWilson]

You'r a stupid moron. Opinions are like assholes and your's is a big one.

P.S. Given your thing requires a microscope to find, how would one "blow" you?

[Dumb]

Any time a non-scientist says "space an time" I know they are on some substance. What Exactly? Idk,you tell me.

How the hell do you know my initials? :blink:

[eric922]

I could be wrong, so forgive me if I am, but I thought blatant homophobia was grounds for banning.

[RichardAWilson]

I concur.

[kapitalyst]

I know financiers are exploitative, irregardless of their political color. However, the Republicans are much worse than the liberal bourgeoisie. The Republicans, including the Tea Party Branch, have no intention of balancing our books.

The Republican Agenda is based on "Starving the Beast," which means running massive deficits to undermine social programs in the longer-term. In the short-term, this Agenda has been manifested in Trickle Down Economics and Imperial Escapades in the Arab World.

Furthermore, the political right-wing is scattered with morons and hypocrites that claim to advocate less state intrusion, while supporting more intrusion in our personal lives (I.e. Gay Marriage, Reproductive Choice, Euthanasia and Marijuana).

America's Modern Republican Party has come to resemble a watered down Nazi-Party that wouldn't mind turning us into a Banana Republic to enforce a Polarized Christian Plutocracy on us.

I still consider myself a "Republican" because of what the party is supposed to stand for. But I too share your frustrations, because the true ideals of the party have been abandoned and it has been essentially hijacked. Calling them "Nazis" is being way too paranoid though, if you ask me... It also gets really old watching people play "pin the swastika on the politician"...

The Republican party is supposed to be about individual and economic liberty and limited government... separation of church and state... pro-peace, anti-war... Unfortunately, idiots like Rick Perry embody the exact opposite of those ideals, and the "establishment" has deviated so far from the values of our founders and Lincoln that just seeing them sickens me. Ron Paul is the only one who has consistently stuck to those values his entire career and has a voting record that matches it, 100%. And that's why he has my vote and will be the next president.

About the particular things you're pointing out...

What do you consider a "financier"? Am I a "financier", being a day trader (I trade stocks, options, futures, FOREX, etc) and entrepreneur? Does that make me "bad" or "evil"?

The "Republican Agenda"? You may be right about the establishment Republicans... But folks like Ron Paul and myself DO want to balance the budget. We also want social programs to be phased out, since they don't work and put more of a burden on the people than the false promises of "free" rewards. But we also want to get OUT of the Middle East, and end all these stupid wars... end all the stupid "nation builder" missions (this isn't Civilization IV, ffs)... and stop trying to be the world's police force...

Hypocrites? Yes, you're totally right. But that doesn't apply to "my lot"... We have no problems with gays, and we don't think government should regulate marriage at all. Most of us are anti-abortion, not for religious reasons but because of the human rights of the unborn -- we're also against capital punishment, unlike the establishment... Furthermore, we're against the stupid "War on Drugs", and other such encroachments into the personal lives of the people.

So don't think all Republicans are like the people you describe. We're fighting to win back our party. Maybe you disagree with our philosophy, but when we win at least you won't have government agents bursting into your house in the middle of the night with guns drawn. :cool:

[RGacky3]

The Republican party is supposed to be about individual and economic liberty and limited government

It was NEVER about that, btw what is economic liberty?


Ron Paul is the only one who has consistently stuck to those values his entire career and has a voting record that matches it, 100%. And that's why he has my vote and will be the next president.


He's a libertarian, libertarianism is'nt about economic freedom, its about economic power not being subject to any democratic accountability, its about economic dictatorship, economic "freedom" under capitalism is "freedom" for only those who can afford it, its like saying under feaudalism every one is "free" to make the rules under their kingdon (meaning peasents have nothing to say).


and the "establishment" has deviated so far from the values of our founders and Lincoln that just seeing them sickens me.

Lincoln started the income tax, and started tarriffs, he also was very corporatist, giving state grants to private corporations, but he also set up publically controlled STATE banks (a socialistic policy).

Hell look at my signature, he basically parroted Marx.

As for the founding fathers, there were many different ideas amung them, most were against financial capitalists, most were merchentalists, some were for public control of resources and land, some were not.


What do you consider a "financier"? Am I a "financier", being a day trader (I trade stocks, options, futures, FOREX, etc) and entrepreneur? Does that make me "bad" or "evil"?


No your a day trader, trading ficticious capital, unless your buying stocks when they are published, your not really a financier.

Also your small potatoes, its like calling me a bank because I loaned a buddy money.


also want social programs to be phased out, since they don't work and put more of a burden on the people than the false promises of "free" rewards.

Social Security has never missed a payment unlike private pensions, Medicare is one of hte most popular programs out there, and burdon on the people? national healthcare vrs private, private definately puts more of a burdon on people.

No one considers them "free" its a socialized program that works better than private programs.

[kapitalyst]

It was NEVER about that, btw what is economic liberty?


I know exactly what you want: my definition on economic freedom so you have an opportunity to spill some Marxian propaganda... But seeing that you did that below, let's move down a take a look...



He's a libertarian, libertarianism is'nt about economic freedom, its about economic power not being subject to any democratic accountability, its about economic dictatorship, economic "freedom" under capitalism is "freedom" for only those who can afford it, its like saying under feaudalism every one is "free" to make the rules under their kingdon (meaning peasents have nothing to say).


Yes. He's a libertarian, and so am I. And it IS about economic freedom... You can sit there and say there's no economic freedom in the "capitalist machine", but there most certainly is -- if you work for it. I was born dirt poor, and I made it on my own. So do plenty of other people. Freedom is having the ability to do what you want to do as long as you don't harm anyone else. Me having a jet, Rolls-Royce and a mansion doesn't do harm to anyone, no matter what you say.

Erm, "feaudalism" has nothing to do with this... Feudalism was a rigid caste system, and had nothing to do with capitalism or libertarianism. In fact, capitalism is what replace feudalism and led to the success and wealth of the western world...

There is also no "economic dictatorship", unless by that you mean government. The key to success in capitalism is pleasing people enough to make them hand over their money to you. Coca-Cola, for instance, has been successful because they produce a great drink that people love. You don't like that "evil" corporation? Well, start a boycott. Trouble is, you'll fail because people are pleased with what the company does for them...



Lincoln started the income tax, and started tarriffs, he also was very corporatist, giving state grants to private corporations, but he also set up publically controlled STATE banks (a socialistic policy).

Hell look at my signature, he basically parroted Marx.


Specifically, I was talking about Lincoln's ideals concerning human rights, racial equality and slavery. And Lincoln's quote is a show of work ethic, not Marxism lol...



As for the founding fathers, there were many different ideas amung them, most were against financial capitalists, most were merchentalists, some were for public control of resources and land, some were not.


Some were mercantilists, but most were not. It was the undoing of protectionism and mercantilism that spurred on the greatest economic boom in human history: the Industrial Revolution. Per-capita income of average people increased 10-fold. The living standard sky-rocketed. That's where all the things we enjoy today came from. Yes, from capitalism...



No your a day trader, trading ficticious capital, unless your buying stocks when they are published, your not really a financier.


"Fictitious" capital? Now I really have no idea what you're talking about... And what do you mean by "published"? A company IPO? I've participate before, as does many members of the public...



Social Security has never missed a payment unlike private pensions, Medicare is one of hte most popular programs out there, and burdon on the people? national healthcare vrs private, private definately puts more of a burdon on people.


Hmmm... Where's that money coming from, considering that we're already bankrupt? Oh, that's right! The Federal Reserve's printing presses! And that's simply stripping away the wealth of the lower and middle classes, giving them back a little of it and claiming you did something for them: the story of social welfare...



No one considers them "free" its a socialized program that works better than private programs.

You've got to be joking...

[RedAnarchist]

I could be wrong, so forgive me if I am, but I thought blatant homophobia was grounds for banning.

No, it means a restriction for that member.

[Per Levy]

i still stand by my opinion. so blow me if you disagree and hasta la victoria siempre. im out

even though you have been shown that the bolsheviks got rid of antihomosexual laws, that cuba is getting more and more progressive on that topic(ask castro if you want, he very much had a lot to tell you) and that communists everywhere in the world lgtb rights, you still hold on to your position that communism is antigay and you still call yourself a communist? maybe you should overthink your position a lot, cause your opinion is not based on communism nor on science.

[RGacky3]

. Freedom is having the ability to do what you want to do as long as you don't harm anyone else. Me having a jet, Rolls-Royce and a mansion doesn't do harm to anyone, no matter what you say.


If you have property laws controlling tons of land and the means of production, defended by the state, you are taking away other peoples freedom, if they can't eat they arn't free, and I'm saying you don't have a right to land property or capitalist property, you don't have the right to someone elses production just because of capitalist property.

Capitalism is unjust economic power in hte hands of a few.


Erm, "feaudalism" has nothing to do with this... Feudalism was a rigid caste system, and had nothing to do with capitalism or libertarianism. In fact, capitalism is what replace feudalism and led to the success and wealth of the western world...


Feaudalism and Capitalism can be justified using the same arguments, Capitalism just replaces land with money and capital.

BTW your right, capitalism has moved the world forward, as did feaudalism, but now its doing more harm than good, now you have a situation where capitalism collapses when not held up by the state.


There is also no "economic dictatorship", unless by that you mean government. The key to success in capitalism is pleasing people enough to make them hand over their money to you. Coca-Cola, for instance, has been successful because they produce a great drink that people love. You don't like that "evil" corporation? Well, start a boycott. Trouble is, you'll fail because people are pleased with what the company does for them...


The Key to success in Capitalism is keeping people desperate enough so you can make them work for close to nothing, it is economic dictatorship if money is a vote and the top 1% have 90% of the votes.

Coca-Cola is successfull because they murder union organizers, use slave labor, have government protection for "intellectual property."


Specifically, I was talking about Lincoln's ideals concerning human rights, racial equality and slavery. And Lincoln's quote is a show of work ethic, not Marxism lol...


No its a statement on economics, labor is superior to capital because it precedes it, it goes against all hte libertarian economic thought.


Some were mercantilists, but most were not. It was the undoing of protectionism and mercantilism that spurred on the greatest economic boom in human history: the Industrial Revolution. Per-capita income of average people increased 10-fold. The living standard sky-rocketed. That's where all the things we enjoy today came from. Yes, from capitalism...


Are you kidding me? The Industrial Revolution was MADE by merchentalism.

Also Capitalism was highly government subsidised the whole time, and relied plently on colonialism and imperialism, really the only time we had neo-liberal capitalism has been since the 1970s and well ....


"Fictitious" capital? Now I really have no idea what you're talking about... And what do you mean by "published"? A company IPO? I've participate before, as does many members of the public...


Fictitious capital = capital that gets its value from mostly percieved value rather than use value.

Yeah I mean an initial public offering, in which case your basically just giving a corporation your money in exchange for a piece of paper.


Hmmm... Where's that money coming from, considering that we're already bankrupt? Oh, that's right! The Federal Reserve's printing presses! And that's simply stripping away the wealth of the lower and middle classes, giving them back a little of it and claiming you did something for them: the story of social welfare...


Well depends, in a sensible country like norway that has nationalized some national productive industry (Oil), it could come from that, other countries it comes from taxes.

The Fed is a whole different issue, If we're gonna have a fed I say it should be democratically accountable, as far as printing money, its obvious you have no idea who economics works, we are in a deflationary enviroment right now.

The Story of Social Welfare is bringing the elderly out of poverty ... and in europe, having a public healthcare system, that according to every statistic, works better than the private American one.


You've got to be joking...

No, its true, Social security works, so does medicare, and nations with national health care services have much better results and lower cost.

BTW, you want to know the ONLY countries in the west that hav'nt really been hit by the ressesion internally?

norway, with large nationalized productive industry
and Germany, with Co-Determination (partial worker control of industry, look it up).

[kapitalyst]

If you have property laws controlling tons of land and the means of production, defended by the state, you are taking away other peoples freedom, if they can't eat they arn't free, and I'm saying you don't have a right to land property or capitalist property, you don't have the right to someone elses production just because of capitalist property.


Hmmm... So I'm hurting people because I own some land and a house? That's keeping people from eating? lol

You can always eat in this country if you're willing to work. And I don't care if you start with nothing -- you can always turn it into something big. And that's why people have flocked to this country in droves. Your paragraph is, at best, a bit delusional. You're acting like the US is central Europe of 1250AD...



Capitalism is unjust economic power in hte hands of a few.


So tell me what's wrong? How are the capitalists oppressing you? Are you poor and hungry? Or are you just upset because you don't have the latest iPhone?



Feaudalism and Capitalism can be justified using the same arguments, Capitalism just replaces land with money and capital.


Erm, no... A caste system doesn't give you the freedom to change your status or acquire wealth, land or capital. Capitalism does. I did it myself. So can you. Anyone can.



BTW your right, capitalism has moved the world forward, as did feaudalism, but now its doing more harm than good, now you have a situation where capitalism collapses when not held up by the state.


Capitalism is not "collapsing". What is collapsing is a big experiment with Keynesian "socialist democracy" (which really isn't democracy, and isn't Marxist socialism either). And the free enterprise system will ultimately be the winner. I knew all along that this was going to happen, and so did many other libertarians and free market advocates. No one is smart enough to manipulate the global economy to serve political interests. This has been doomed from the day Keynes' thoughts infected our politics and FDR put it into action...



The Key to success in Capitalism is keeping people desperate enough so you can make them work for close to nothing, it is economic dictatorship if money is a vote and the top 1% have 90% of the votes.


Oh, come on... You can't be serious, can you?



Coca-Cola is successfull because they murder union organizers, use slave labor, have government protection for "intellectual property."


Riiiiiiight.... Silly me for thinking that their revenue comes from selling colas... :rolleyes:

Not only are none of those things true, none of them make money. No one makes money from murdering union organizers, lol. And gee, how many people have union thugs, beaten and killed since the 20th century began?



No its a statement on economics, labor is superior to capital because it precedes it, it goes against all hte libertarian economic thought.


Erm... No... I'd say that's pretty consistent with libertarian thought in every way. You have to work to achieve anything. Strong work ethic is the way to make it.



Are you kidding me? The Industrial Revolution was MADE by merchentalism.


Shame on your history teacher! Please rectify his/her mistakes, if you have a few minutes, and look these things up online (e.g., Wikipedia)...

As mercantilism and protectionism was done away with, the Industrial Revolution picked up steam as nations embraced free trade. By the mid-1800s, mercantilism was effectively dead, completely. And then there was a second industrial revolution which followed the first. Bro, this is 10th grade history...



Also Capitalism was highly government subsidised the whole time, and relied plently on colonialism and imperialism, really the only time we had neo-liberal capitalism has been since the 1970s and well ....


The 1970s!? LOL!



Fictitious capital = capital that gets its value from mostly percieved value rather than use value.


Well. Today I'm going to take some of that fictitious capital and exchange it for some fictitious food.



Yeah I mean an initial public offering, in which case your basically just giving a corporation your money in exchange for a piece of paper.


Yeah, who would ever do anything for a lousy piece of paper? Guess I wasted my time and money on college...



The Fed is a whole different issue, If we're gonna have a fed I say it should be democratically accountable, as far as printing money, its obvious you have no idea who economics works, we are in a deflationary enviroment right now.


Now this is the most amusing thing you've yet said...

"Deflationary environment"? Don't you mean a recession and bear market? :rolleyes:

And what lead up to it? An asset bubble, just like the one before the Great Depression and 2008! Out of control inflation! NYMEX Crude was trading over $120/b earlier this year. Gold went over $1900. Silver reached $50 (and the decline in those prices had more to do with margin requirement hikes and govt. manipulation than anything). How much has the price of all foods gone up in the last two years?

I make my living off of these markets, and I know exactly what's going on. You might want to look at the charts and see for yourself. Inflation was never been so high since the Jimmy Carter presidency. And what we're experiencing now is not monetary deflation, but the toppling of the market bubble.



The Story of Social Welfare is bringing the elderly out of poverty ... and in europe, having a public healthcare system, that according to every statistic, works better than the private American one.


And why might elderly people be in poverty? Maybe because the precious money they needed to invest for their retirement and old age was taken by the state for social welfare, and then the government plays the hero? Maybe because national currencies have been devalued so badly that their savings were wiped out? Yeah, maybe that...



No, its true, Social security works, so does medicare, and nations with national health care services have much better results and lower cost.


You might want to look into those costs...



BTW, you want to know the ONLY countries in the west that hav'nt really been hit by the ressesion internally?

norway, with large nationalized productive industry
and Germany, with Co-Determination (partial worker control of industry, look it up).

This is a joke, right? German markets have already decline well over 20%, and are in a vicious secular bear market cycle. German GDP is on a steep decline. You should pay attention to the DAX. I don't pay much attention to Norway, but AFAIK the story is the same all across Europe.

And what's funny about your praise of the European financial and welfare system is that they're going bankrupt, and in the midst of a massive debt crisis! :laugh:

[RGacky3]

Hmmm... So I'm hurting people because I own some land and a house? That's keeping people from eating? lol


If a small group owns all the means of production and resources, it leaves the rest to their mercy, meaning you have a exploitative situation.


You can always eat in this country if you're willing to work. And I don't care if you start with nothing -- you can always turn it into something big.

yeah 9% unemployment, 20% in poverty, and around 18% real unemloyment.

But yeah, you can work and eat, if you produce much more for the capitalist than what he pays you.


And that's why people have flocked to this country in droves.

Nope, mainly because for most of Americas history there was a labor shortage due to expanding markets, (whereas you had a surplus in euorpe), and also since free trade policies forced on the south (which was really just free trade for them, not for us) destroyed local industry leaving people without a source of income.


So tell me what's wrong? How are the capitalists oppressing you? Are you poor and hungry? Or are you just upset because you don't have the latest iPhone?


They arn't really oppressing me, I live in Norway, do pretty well for myself. But for a lot of people, in the US (wherer I am from) and elsewhere, it does exploit them and leave them in poverty, the whole basis of capitalism is that the capitalist extracts wealth from his worker.


Erm, no... A caste system doesn't give you the freedom to change your status or acquire wealth, land or capital. Capitalism does. I did it myself. So can you. Anyone can.


Under many forms of feudalism peasants and the such could buy their way into a different status, or through service.


Capitalism is not "collapsing". What is collapsing is a big experiment with Keynesian "socialist democracy" (which really isn't democracy, and isn't Marxist socialism either). And the free enterprise system will ultimately be the winner.

Really? Then why is it that the US went under (Reagen economics) and the UK is going down (Thatcher) and Iceland, argentina both of which did the Milton friedmen model, and Ireland (privatized the banking), Greece (dropped taxes, privatized and liberalized financial markets and financialized state assets) ... as did Spain.

Yet Places Like Norway (nationalized industry) and Germany (workplace democracy) are doing fine?

And yeah, having public control over economic institutions IS democracy, one person one vote, and workplace democracy is democracy too.

1 dollar 1 vote is plutocracy.


I knew all along that this was going to happen, and so did many other libertarians and free market advocates. No one is smart enough to manipulate the global economy to serve political interests. This has been doomed from the day Keynes' thoughts infected our politics and FDR put it into action...


Marxist predicted this, as did Keynsians.

And it was dommed with Hover economics, and it was doomed this time, when Neo-liberalism took over in the 70s and 80s.


Oh, come on... You can't be serious, can you?


Yes I am, are you denying the huge wealth gap? if your saying 1 dollar 1 vote, then a small group has most of the votes.


Riiiiiiight.... Silly me for thinking that their revenue comes from selling colas... :rolleyes:


At a low cost beating competition due to cost cutting elsewhere.


No one makes money from murdering union organizers, lol. And gee, how many people have union thugs, beaten and killed since the 20th century began?


You make money by cutting costs.

As for the Union thugs are you really suggesting that the violence from Unions is even close to the violence by states and capitalists against them? Do you really wnat to go down that road and embarrass yourself?


Erm... No... I'd say that's pretty consistent with libertarian thought in every way. You have to work to achieve anything. Strong work ethic is the way to make it.


If you knew a thing about austrian economics (the libertarian kind), you'd get why its incompatible.


As mercantilism and protectionism was done away with, the Industrial Revolution picked up steam as nations embraced free trade. By the mid-1800s, mercantilism was effectively dead, completely. And then there was a second industrial revolution which followed the first. Bro, this is 10th grade history...


Protectionist policies continued through the 1800s, as did state protections and state funding of innovations and insutry, Capitalism and the State have ALWAYS been intertwined.


The 1970s!? LOL!


Yes, when Reagenomics and Thatcher economics and Milton Friedman neo-liberal economics was the main model.


Well. Today I'm going to take some of that fictitious capital and exchange it for some fictitious food.


Yeah, who would ever do anything for a lousy piece of paper? Guess I wasted my time and money on college...


Your not getting the point.


"Deflationary environment"? Don't you mean a recession and bear market? :rolleyes:


No I mean deflationary environemnt due to lagging demand, http://forecast-chart.com/forecast-inflation-rate.html.


And what lead up to it? An asset bubble, just like the one before the Great Depression and 2008! Out of control inflation! NYMEX Crude was trading over $120/b earlier this year. Gold went over $1900. Silver reached $50 (and the decline in those prices had more to do with margin requirement hikes and govt. manipulation than anything). How much has the price of all foods gone up in the last two years?


The asset bubble was caused by financial markets speculating without accountability, out of control inflation? Where? Look at the actual inflation rates.


I make my living off of these markets, and I know exactly what's going on. You might want to look at the charts and see for yourself. Inflation was never been so high since the Jimmy Carter presidency. And what we're experiencing now is not monetary deflation, but the toppling of the market bubble.


I am looking at the charts ....

Market bubbles are caused by the fact that capitalism requres constant growth, when you don't have natural growth due to consumer demand you have to put it somewehre else, like making a mortgage security market, or building bubbles, or issuing cheap credit ...


And why might elderly people be in poverty? Maybe because the precious money they needed to invest for their retirement and old age was taken by the state for social welfare, and then the government plays the hero? Maybe because national currencies have been devalued so badly that their savings were wiped out? Yeah, maybe that...


errrr, no, they were in poverty BEFORE social security, after social security their poverty decreased DRASTICLY ...

About devaluation ... yeah, because before we got off the gold standard working people were doing great.


You might want to look into those costs...


ok http://www.photius.com/rankings/total_health_expenditure_as_pecent_of_gdp_2000_to_ 2005.html

and with what results

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
http://www.photius.com/rankings/world_health_performance_ranks.html

There we go.


This is a joke, right? German markets have already decline well over 20%, and are in a vicious secular bear market cycle. German GDP is on a steep decline. You should pay attention to the DAX. I don't pay much attention to Norway, but AFAIK the story is the same all across Europe.


Capital markets are not a measure of an economy, neither is GPD, living standards, wages, employment and so on are a much better measure.


And what's funny about your praise of the European financial and welfare system is that they're going bankrupt, and in the midst of a massive debt crisis! :laugh:

I'm not praising the European welfare or financial system, their financial system is actualy more like the US.

I was praising Co-Determination in Germany and Public industry in Norway.

[RichardAWilson]

You can always eat in this country if you're willing to work.

Which is the reason a dozen individuals are putting in applications for a single job opening? Willingness to work is half the answer. The other half is having a job available to take.

I know there are delusional Libertarians still in the Republican Party. (No offense to you. However, if you think Ron Paul is going to win the Republican Nomination, you're living in a Dream World). It'd be like the Democrats running Bernie Sanders for the White House.

Eisenhower Republicanism is dead. The Republican Party is the established Party of Imperialism, Militarism and Golden Shower Economics.

[Revolution starts with U]

I still consider myself a "Republican" because of what the party is supposed to stand for. But I too share your frustrations, because the true ideals of the party have been abandoned and it has been essentially hijacked. Calling them "Nazis" is being way too paranoid though, if you ask me... It also gets really old watching people play "pin the swastika on the politician"...

I agree. Unless someone is advocating the wholesale oppression of Jews, Gypsies, Labor activists, and the handicapped, playing "pin the swastika on the politician (hilarious btw :lol:)" is pretty annoying.


Ron Paul is the only one who has consistently stuck to those values his entire career and has a voting record that matches it, 100%. And that's why he has my vote and will be the next president.

Ron Paul also had a newsletter running for decades that called black people "animals" and said "the only thing that ended the LA Riots was when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks." It also said "I have warned my friends and family in my hometown (Dr Paul's hometown at the time) to arm themselves, the animals (blacks) are coming." He claims he didn't write this, and that a ghostwriter did. And he is not interested in finding out who the ghostwriter was (Rockwell and Rothbard most likely). But it just begs the question; is RP a different person in private, meaning he is a liar like every other politician? Or is he so incompetent as to let that go on in his name for 3 decades?



What do you consider a "financier"? Am I a "financier", being a day trader (I trade stocks, options, futures, FOREX, etc) and entrepreneur? Does that make me "bad" or "evil"?

We take the "evilness" of capitalists on an individual basis. Many capitalists are good and decent people forced into a situation of being exploitive by the system itself. Many are not, they are aggressive union busting anti worker stooges. I don't know enough about you to establish the evilness of your character.
Take Bill Gates for example. Evil capitalist right? Well, actually he recognizes the failures of capitalism and is working to set up companies that encourage a more hands-on approach to the welfare of the people.



The "Republican Agenda"? You may be right about the establishment Republicans... But folks like Ron Paul and myself DO want to balance the budget. We also want social programs to be phased out, since they don't work and put more of a burden on the people than the false promises of "free" rewards. But we also want to get OUT of the Middle East, and end all these stupid wars... end all the stupid "nation builder" missions (this isn't Civilization IV, ffs)... and stop trying to be the world's police force...

Social security works. There is no honest way to deny that. It has undeniably increased the longevity and living standards of the elderly. And it, technically, runs a surplus despite being a reggressive tax.


Hypocrites? Yes, you're totally right. But that doesn't apply to "my lot"... We have no problems with gays, and we don't think government should regulate marriage at all.
If I remember correctly, RPs beliefs about gays are that they should keep it in the closet, and private business owners should be allowed to discriminate against them, or anyone else, at will.
You do know RP full out admits he would vote against ending segregation in private establishements, correct?



So don't think all Republicans are like the people you describe. We're fighting to win back our party. Maybe you disagree with our philosophy, but when we win at least you won't have government agents bursting into your house in the middle of the night with guns drawn. :cool:

Lots of people claim they don't want the government fighting their battles for them. It remains to be seen whether the Pea Partiers, or even true faux-libertarians, will stick to those ideals in the face of a unified and aggressive working class. :cool:

[kapitalyst]

I agree. Unless someone is advocating the wholesale oppression of Jews, Gypsies, Labor activists, and the handicapped, playing "pin the swastika on the politician (hilarious btw :lol:)" is pretty annoying.


Wel l said!



Ron Paul also had a newsletter running for decades that called black people "animals" and said "the only thing that ended the LA Riots was when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks." It also said "I have warned my friends and family in my hometown (Dr Paul's hometown at the time) to arm themselves, the animals (blacks) are coming." He claims he didn't write this, and that a ghostwriter did. And he is not interested in finding out who the ghostwriter was (Rockwell and Rothbard most likely). But it just begs the question; is RP a different person in private, meaning he is a liar like every other politician? Or is he so incompetent as to let that go on in his name for 3 decades?


Ron Paul didn't have anything to do with it. And I'm as unconcerned about it as he is. Racism is a stupid extremist ideology existing on the outskirts of American society, and only idiots subscribe to it.

Ron Paul has no control over what other people say or do, and in fact he wouldn't try to control other people's speech. The same thing has happened to other politicians. The internet is full of false quotes, writing, newsletters, etc attributed to Obama -- and people actually tried to use it against him in the last election. There were also major controversies, wherein people tried to falsely connect him to everything from terrorist groups to violent revolutionaries. I don't give such crap the time of day. Nor should you.



We take the "evilness" of capitalists on an individual basis. Many capitalists are good and decent people forced into a situation of being exploitive by the system itself. Many are not, they are aggressive union busting anti worker stooges. I don't know enough about you to establish the evilness of your character.


Well... I strive to be philanthropic and altruistic by my own accord. I am a Christian (NOT a "main-streamer", nor a fundamentalist), and I believe that I'm supposed to give and help my fellow man.

"The only religion which the Lord accepts as true and faultless is this: to care for the orphans and widows in their distress and keep oneself from being corrupted by the world."
Unlike many people claiming to be "Christians", I take these things seriously. I also take the principle "judge not lest you be judged" seriously too. You'll never hear me telling someone they'll go to "hell" (something which isn't even supported in the Bible) if they do X, Y or Z or don't accept my world view.

I'm planning to contribute to two new charities my friend, who owns a local store, just turned me onto. They're both operating in Vietnam; one is for a colony of lepers, and the other is for the elderly, handicapped and sick. If it's not against forum policy, I'll post the information on how to contact them and donate, so you guys could contribute too (if you want).

I also enjoy helping people at the local level. I'm one of the few people who will feed and clothe the local drug addicts, who are so maliciously hated by society and oppressed by the state. I like to help people find jobs and teach them how to be financially independent and successful, and I also don't mind helping a family in need with food, money, bills, etc. I also go every week to visit a lady who is about to have her foot amputated due to a serious car accident, and often sit with her till the wee hours of the morning to make sure she's eaten and has everything she needs -- and I must forgo my nightly work (futures trading) to do so.

I'm not saying this to make myself look good... in fact, I think it marginalizes any good things I've done by drawing attention to it/myself. But you seemed to want to know more about me and my views on this. I think there is no higher honor than helping other people who need it. However, I do not believe in state-mandated "charity"... which not only is meaningless but doesn't work very well. And I have little tolerance for free loaders.



Take Bill Gates for example. Evil capitalist right? Well, actually he recognizes the failures of capitalism and is working to set up companies that encourage a more hands-on approach to the welfare of the people.


I admire Bill Gates and what he is doing, and I hope to be his "copy cat" some day. There's nothing wrong with voluntary altruism -- in fact, it's a beautiful thing. People like Gates and other "capitalist pigs" are doing more for people genuinely in need than the state ever will. The state simply perpetuates poverty and desperation; forcing dependence and ensuring votes to stay in power. National treasuries have become political bargaining chips for pseudo-socialist politicians. And I don't buy their crap for one second. I think the genuineness of you guys' beliefs is what separates you from them... and that's why I respect you, even if we disagree on things.

Being a libertarian of free enterprise advocate does not mean you don't care about other people. In fact, we care a LOT. But it's not the business of the state, and we don't approve of people exploiting other's kindness and good will for personal gain... they take away resources that people in real need should have and become a burden on society. Don't deny that people aren't doing it, because I live near tons of them... and they freely admit it!



Social security works. There is no honest way to deny that. It has undeniably increased the longevity and living standards of the elderly. And it, technically, runs a surplus despite being a reggressive tax.


Yes, there is. I think I've already pointed out why the system isn't doing any good in this thread.



If I remember correctly, RPs beliefs about gays are that they should keep it in the closet, and private business owners should be allowed to discriminate against them, or anyone else, at will.


That is not Ron Paul's belief about homosexuals. We (libertarians) simply don't care what a person's sexual orientation is... it's not our business what consenting adults do together. We also acknowledge that they have every right to be open and proud about their sexuality. Ron Paul is criticized by other Republicans as being "pro-gay". But he's not "pro-gay", "pro-straight" or "pro-anyone"... we're just pro-individual liberty.

Yes, private business should be allowed to discriminate however they choose, if they're dumb enough to do it. Critics always try to twist our actual beliefs and say we support discrimination against a particular race or minority group (e.g., blacks or gays). That simply isn't true. In fact, a business has every right to discriminate against me for being white, male, whatever. The fact that there is such controversy and outrage about this idea simply proves our point: discrimination would harm businesses who engaged in it. If Nike started using an "Only for white people" policy, you'd see a huge uprising against them. World-wide boycotts would begin, workers would leave the company, shareholders would sell their shares so quickly the stock would crash and they'd be bankrupt in no time. That's the beautiful thing about the market: it regulates itself by the social values of the day. We don't need government "regulating" racial relations or anything such these days. All the present system is doing is creating muddying the legal waters, opening up the doors to frivolous lawsuits, creating waste and confusion... very typical of government.



You do know RP full out admits he would vote against ending segregation in private establishements, correct?


That is a total twisting of the facts. You must be reading this stuff on some of those extreme "progressive" websites. :rolleyes:

The truth is, Ron Paul (like me and other libertarians) advocates 100% equality for all people under the law. The state should never distinguish between races or make policies based on race. Everyone should simply be treated as human beings -- all equally so. But the state has no right to impose its will upon us.

What private citizens think, say or do (which doesn't cause true harm to another person) is their own business. We cannot "regulate" that, and have no authority to. I think that neo-nazis and the KKK are a bunch of morons, but I acknowledge their freedom to say stupid things and choose the other idiots they associate with.



Lots of people claim they don't want the government fighting their battles for them. It remains to be seen whether the Pea Partiers, or even true faux-libertarians, will stick to those ideals in the face of a unified and aggressive working class. :cool:

Haha, well we have to disagree there. :lol:

The working class of America dreams of being able to pursue their economic goals and improve their material situation as individuals. Don't expect them to ever embrace Marxism, even if they've been duped into tolerating some pseudo-socialism and statism. ;)

[kapitalyst]

Which is the reason a dozen individuals are putting in applications for a single job opening? Willingness to work is half the answer. The other half is having a job available to take.


Mass unemployment has been caused by government intervention in economic affairs and so-called "regulation". It's so expensive to hire people these days, thanks to this, that business must operate with smaller labor forces.

Want to see full employment very quickly? Get the government out of the mix, don't intervene in union-business wars, abolish wage and price controls, lower taxes and end all of this mandatory employment benefit BS. When you lower these costs for hiring, more people can be hired and more of the workers' incomes can stay in their pockets. The economy will inevitably grow, and the long period of inflation and stagnant wages will end.

And even though it may be tough to find a decent job at a decent business, my statement still stands: you can always eat if you're willing to work. You can wash people's cars, mow grass, clean house and/or perform all sorts of odd jobs if it's a matter of eating or not eating. If someone came knocking on my door hungry and hunting for some work, I'd take them in a heartbeat.



I know there are delusional Libertarians still in the Republican Party. (No offense to you. However, if you think Ron Paul is going to win the Republican Nomination, you're living in a Dream World). It'd be like the Democrats running Bernie Sanders for the White House.


Ok...



Eisenhower Republicanism is dead. The Republican Party is the established Party of Imperialism, Militarism and Golden Shower Economics.

To some extent, you're right. But we're beginning to win it back. The Republican establishment and the media is running scared of Ron Paul, and his support is snowballing. There is an awakening going on in the party as we speak, and people are realizing we've been wrong and stupid for a long time, and have greatly departed with what we're supposed (and claimed) to stand for. It's only a matter of time...

[Revolution starts with U]

Wel l said!

Of course you think it's well said... you said it! :laugh: Way to be redundant



Ron Paul didn't have anything to do with it. And I'm as unconcerned about it as he is. Racism is a stupid extremist ideology existing on the outskirts of American society, and only idiots subscribe to it.

Idiots like Ron Paul, Lew Rockwell, and Murray Rothbard.. yep :D


Ron Paul has no control over what other people say or do, and in fact he wouldn't try to control other people's speech. The same thing has happened to other politicians. The internet is full of false quotes, writing, newsletters, etc attributed to Obama -- and people actually tried to use it against him in the last election. There were also major controversies, wherein people tried to falsely connect him to everything from terrorist groups to violent revolutionaries. I don't give such crap the time of day. Nor should you.
Except this wasn't some idiot posting on a website. This was Ron Paul's newsletter, published in his name, and supposedly authored by him. It was only when it came to public attention how racist RPs newsletter had been for 30 years that he claimed it to be written by a ghostwriter.
These quotes, before the public backlash, were supposedly authored by Ron Paul, even going so far as to say "in my hometown of (Dr Pauls hometown."
Either admit that RP is a huge racist, or at the very least incompetent. Only a buffoon, or someone who supports the message, would let someone post under their name things they disagree with for 3 decades... 3 decades. Not once, not twice, not on an anonymous message board, but for 3 decades someone who was supposedly Ron Paul was saying blacks are uncivilized animals.
And agian you misunderstand RPs positoin on segregation and censorship. He believes himself fully within his own right to segregate and censore anything he wants on his own property. He's no liberal about free speech, he sees it as a property issue.

... sometimes... you RP'ers have seemed to fall for the cult of personality worse than the Stalinists. At least they know Stalin was evil, and try to justify it.



Well... I strive to be philanthropic and altruistic by my own accord.
Good for you. And again, it is mostly the system that makes you an exploiter.
I am not sure what the board policy is on that. But, for legal reasons, I would imagine that should be taken up in PM. You could probably start a thread with a link in it. But Im not sure about directly posting contact information.




I'm not saying this to make myself look good... in fact, I think it marginalizes any good things I've done by drawing attention to it/myself. But you seemed to want to know more about me and my views on this. I think there is no higher honor than helping other people who need it. However, I do not believe in state-mandated "charity"... which not only is meaningless but doesn't work very well. And I have little tolerance for free loaders.

My pont was, regardless of how philanthropic you are (and that's a good thing, good for you and keep it up) you are still an exploiter. You make your money by expropriating the excess value of a set of laborer's productivity.



I admire Bill Gates and what he is doing, and I hope to be his "copy cat" some day. There's nothing wrong with voluntary altruism -- in fact, it's a beautiful thing. People like Gates and other "capitalist pigs" are doing more for people genuinely in need than the state ever will.
Meh.. I've never recieved any help personally from the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. But I was on food stamps as a child, and it helped my family feed us while my dad worked 12hrs and my mom went to university. Now we're off the dole, and doing better for ourselves. But I cannot thank the people of america enough for providing me with that assistance.


The state simply perpetuates poverty and desperation; forcing dependence and ensuring votes to stay in power. National treasuries have become political bargaining chips for pseudo-socialist politicians. And I don't buy their crap for one second. I think the genuineness of you guys' beliefs is what separates you from them... and that's why I respect you, even if we disagree on things.

:cool:

Being a libertarian of free enterprise advocate does not mean you don't care about other people. In fact, we care a LOT. But it's not the business of the state, and we don't approve of people exploiting other's kindness and good will for personal gain... they take away resources that people in real need should have and become a burden on society. Don't deny that people aren't doing it, because I live near tons of them... and they freely admit it!
I find public ownership much more effective than welfare. But again, I personally have felt the benefits of welfare. Some people exploit it.. but agian some people exploit anything they can. Take for example the Koch Bros, who have almost singlehandedly made the Tea Party and libertariansim a mainstream movement. They have routinely used statism, and even oppressive statism, to their benefit.


That is not Ron Paul's belief about homosexuals. We (libertarians) simply don't care what a person's sexual orientation is... it's not our business what consenting adults do together. We also acknowledge that they have every right to be open and proud about their sexuality. Ron Paul is criticized by other Republicans as being "pro-gay". But he's not "pro-gay", "pro-straight" or "pro-anyone"... we're just pro-individual liberty.
In 2004, he spoke in support of the Defense of Marriage Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act), passed in 1996. This act allows a state to decline to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states or countries, although a state will usually recognize legal marriages performed outside of its own jurisdiction. The Defense of Marriage Act also prohibits the U.S. government from recognizing same-sex marriages, even if a state recognizes the marriage. Paul co-sponsored the Marriage Protection Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_Protection_Act), which would have barred federal judges from hearing cases pertaining to the constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act
Ron Paul said:

Consider the Lawrence case decided by the Supreme Court in June. The Court determined that Texas had no right to establish its own standards for private sexual conduct, because gay sodomy is somehow protected under the 14th amendment "right to privacy". Ridiculous as sodomy laws may be, there clearly is no right to privacy nor sodomy found anywhere in the Constitution. There are, however, states' rights – rights plainly affirmed in the Ninth and Tenth amendments. Under those amendments, the State of Texas has the right to decide for itself how to regulate social matters like sex, using its own local standards
I actually cannot find the quote, and could be misattributing it to RP, where he said he thinks gays should keep it in the closet. And I will retract that statement until I can find it. But he certainly doesn't support a liberal position on gay rights. It is a states-rights issue for him.



Yes, private business should be allowed to discriminate however they choose, if they're dumb enough to do it. Critics always try to twist our actual beliefs and say we support discrimination against a particular race or minority group (e.g., blacks or gays). That simply isn't true. In fact, a business has every right to discriminate against me for being white, male, whatever. The fact that there is such controversy and outrage about this idea simply proves our point: discrimination would harm businesses who engaged in it. If Nike started using an "Only for white people" policy, you'd see a huge uprising against them. World-wide boycotts would begin, workers would leave the company, shareholders would sell their shares so quickly the stock would crash and they'd be bankrupt in no time. That's the beautiful thing about the market: it regulates itself by the social values of the day. We don't need government "regulating" racial relations or anything such these days. All the present system is doing is creating muddying the legal waters, opening up the doors to frivolous lawsuits, creating waste and confusion... very typical of government.

The problem is you ignore the fact that the ownership class got away with private discrimination just fine before the big bad government stepped in and told them no. You know as well as I do that racism outright has all but died, and this is largely because statist progressives have made it all but illegal. It is now predicated by a "im not racist but.."
If businesses said "no criminally minded black people" and then let no black people in, is that better than just saying "no black people?"




That is a total twisting of the facts. You must be reading this stuff on some of those extreme "progressive" websites. :rolleyes:

No. That is what Ron Paul said, he would vote against Civil Rights act.


The truth is, Ron Paul (like me and other libertarians) advocates 100% equality for all people under the law.
Unless they can't pay :rolleyes:
Or are you advocating a positive right to a lawyer and trial by jury?




Haha, well we have to disagree there. :lol:

The working class of America dreams of being able to pursue their economic goals and improve their material situation as individuals. Don't expect them to ever embrace Marxism, even if they've been duped into tolerating some pseudo-socialism and statism. ;)

Whether they do or not makes no difference to me. For a thousand years peasants chose their own bondage implicitly, many explicitly. I will continue to help them realize that, even tho their chains are more shiney and pleasing to the eye, they are still slaves to a small minority that robs them daily of their productivity.

[#FF0000]

Mass unemployment has been caused by government intervention in economic affairs and so-called "regulation". It's so expensive to hire people these days, thanks to this, that business must operate with smaller labor forces.

I don't know how anyone can say this as profits have been skyrocketing over the last decade while employment has been stagnating and is now dropping. Like, this just isn't true.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Who doesn't hate the Republican Party besides Christian fundamentalists and Neo-cons? Obviously I'm not American so I can't vote, but their system really is polarized. They're both terrible though, considering they both plan to continue America's imperialistic ambitions. Republicans just suck more since they're back by Christian fundies who want to implement Christian policies.

Ron Paul 2012.

[#FF0000]

Ron Paul 2012.

thats just precious

[MattShizzle]

The Repug party is split between lunatic Libertarians and Fascists in all but name. There aren't even many true Liberals in the US (the Dem party is moderate to conservative) let alone leftists.

[MattShizzle]

Ron Paul 2012.

No wonder you're restricted. He wants to allow businesses to discriminate against people, to get rid of the minimum wage and have no social safety net other than the crumbs the wealthy are "generous" enough to throw everyone else's way on their own accord.

[Drosophila]

Who doesn't hate the Republican Party besides Christian fundamentalists and Neo-cons? Obviously I'm not American so I can't vote, but their system really is polarized. They're both terrible though, considering they both plan to continue America's imperialistic ambitions. Republicans just suck more since they're back by Christian fundies who want to implement Christian policies.

Ron Paul 2012.

Ron Paul is a member of the Republican Party. He is running for the Republican nomination.

[LOLseph Stalin]

No wonder you're restricted. He wants to allow businesses to discriminate against people, to get rid of the minimum wage and have no social safety net other than the crumbs the wealthy are "generous" enough to throw everyone else's way on their own accord.

No, no. You misunderstood. I don't fully support libertarianism(I'm a moderate). However, I do support Ron Paul since he's non-interventionist and that really is the biggest most important issue to me right now.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Ron Paul is a member of the Republican Party. He is running for the Republican nomination.

That's because he could never have a chance while running on a Libertarian Party or independent ticket.

[Drosophila]

There are very few political positions held by Ron Paul that can be applied to the real world. His dream of a weak central government
was proven wrong with the Confederate States of America. Objectivism is a twisted combination of Social Darwinism and adolescent-like selfishness.

[kapitalyst]

There are very few political positions held by Ron Paul that can be applied to the real world. His dream of a weak central government
was proven wrong with the Confederate States of America. Objectivism is a twisted combination of Social Darwinism and adolescent-like selfishness.

:laugh:

Wasn't your ideology already proven wrong by a lot of autocratic dictatorships who took over every "socialist revolution" and murdered without a second thought? :rolleyes:

The Confederates states has nothing to do with this... nice try...

"Darwinism" is the law of the natural world and of finance. We advocate "Darwinism" for business and enterprise, not individual humans... it is not "social Darwinism". It creates a stronger economy and financial system. When you foster financial and economic weakness, it becomes a burden on everyone (e.g., bailouts).

"Objectivism is a twisted combination of Social Darwinism and adolescent-like selfishness"? Yeah? Well, maybe socialism is an ideology for a minority of misfits and failures, childishly blaming their own problems and mistakes on others, desiring mutual suffering for all members of society? Yes... you're hardcore goth... soooo hardcore goth, totally! :lol:

[RGacky3]

Wasn't your ideology already proven wrong by a lot of autocratic dictatorships who took over every "socialist revolution" and murdered without a second thought? http://www.revleft.com/vb/hate-republican-party-t161587/revleft/smilies/001_rolleyes.gif


No, because that was'nt our ideology, infact a lot of socialists abandoned the Soviet Union even before Stalin.

1. Was the USSR a democracy? No, thats the pre-requisit for socialism, you can't have a democratic economy without a democratic government.

2. Did the workers control the workplace and production? No, thats the basic definition of socialism.


It creates a stronger economy and financial system. When you foster financial and economic weakness, it becomes a burden on everyone (e.g., bailouts).


Not really, no one is talking about fostering financial and economic weakness (whatever that means), its about whether or not you want a democratic economy for social need, or an autocratic economy for profit.


"Objectivism is a twisted combination of Social Darwinism and adolescent-like selfishness"? Yeah? Well, maybe socialism is an ideology for a minority of misfits and failures, childishly blaming their own problems and mistakes on others, desiring mutual suffering for all members of society? Yes... you're hardcore goth... soooo hardcore goth, totally! http://www.revleft.com/vb/hate-republican-party-t161587/revleft/smilies2/laugh.gif

No its not, if you ask people all over the world whether or not they would call themselves socialists or capitalists, I guarantee you that you'd get more people calling themselves socialists.

We don't blame our own problems on other people, we blame the capitalists wealth on us ...

[kapitalyst]

No, because that was'nt our ideology, infact a lot of socialists abandoned the Soviet Union even before Stalin.


You're right. It wasn't your textbook ideology. It's just what your beautiful theory becomes in practice.



Not really, no one is talking about fostering financial and economic weakness (whatever that means), its about whether or not you want a democratic economy for social need, or an autocratic economy for profit.


The bailouts weren't fostering economic and financial weakness? Government propping up corporations and execs who fucked up in major ways? That's what we're talking about when we talk about "economic Darwinism". Those bastards should have paid the price.

A free enterprise market economy is a democratic economy. Anyone can do what they're willing to accomplish. Even the most greedy can't hog all the resources because competitors want it too. A command-economy is an autocratic one. No one has choices, whatsoever. Big Brother tells you to do X, and you'd better do it. I already know what you're going to say: "Well there wouldn't be a 'Big Brother', dude... Everyone would, like, work together and shit!" Unfortunately, not gonna happen...



No its not, if you ask people all over the world whether or not they would call themselves socialists or capitalists, I guarantee you that you'd get more people calling themselves socialists.


Yeah, that's why people begged for Ralph Nader to serve a third term as president... of the world... ;)

Most people identify themselves as capitalists, bro... They want to work hard and achieve their own goals on their own.



We don't blame our own problems on other people, we blame the capitalists wealth on us ...

I know. I was joking in response to your comrade's remarks.

[RGacky3]

You're right. It wasn't your textbook ideology. It's just what your beautiful theory becomes in practice.


That was'nt our theory, nor was it in practice.

I'll repeat

1. Was the USSR a democracy? No, thats the pre-requisit for socialism, you can't have a democratic economy without a democratic government.

2. Did the workers control the workplace and production? No, thats the basic definition of socialism.

Ok check.

[Bud Struggle]

You're right. It wasn't your textbook ideology. It's just what your beautiful theory becomes in practice.

Dead on correct. I could understand Communism going astray in a couple Revolution out of the fifty or so that have happened--but EVERY ONE?

Look at the latest and greatest--Nepal is going to hell in a handbasket.

Communism is a great theory, everybody getting along and helping each other, no greed, no war, but in reality it's pretty nasty.

[ZeroNowhere]

It's not good to hate people.


Dead on correct. I could understand Communism going astray in a couple Revolution out of the fifty or so that have happened--but EVERY ONE?I assume that this is supposed to include the Russian Revolution, and then a bunch of revolutions reliant upon and seeking to emulate the Soviet Union. It's not clear how any of the latter 'went astray'. Perhaps the Paris Commune, which was killed off, could be said to have gone somewhat astray (at least, being killed was not the intention), which makes about two.


You're right. It wasn't your textbook ideology. It's just what your beautiful theory becomes in practice.
Don't tell him about the Roundheads.

[RGacky3]

No, no. You misunderstood. I don't fully support libertarianism(I'm a moderate). However, I do support Ron Paul since he's non-interventionist and that really is the biggest most important issue to me right now.

Moderate is a meaningless term,, it does'nt mean a damn thing.


I could understand Communism going astray in a couple Revolution out of the fifty or so that have happened--but EVERY ONE?


That followed the Leninist authoritarian model yes ...

[Luc]

Dead on correct. I could understand Communism going astray in a couple Revolution out of the fifty or so that have happened--but EVERY ONE?

Hardly, From what I can think of atm only one went astray.

Are you talking about Cuba, China, Vietnam? The didn't go astray as their goal was a "communist" state, these were marxist-lenininst revolutions.

Or are you talking about the Free Territory, the Spanish Revolution, the Mexican Revolution (more specifically Magonista Revolt)? The free territory was crushed and so never went astray... The spanish revolution was also crushed and the Magonista Revolt? I can't say I know for sure how it ended for Magon and the Liberal Party but, I think they were crushed too.

You can't go astray when your dead.

As for the Russian Revolution, that is the only one (that I can think of atm) that one could say "went astray" as the Bolsheviks changed their tone come the Red Terror and Civil War.

Unless you consider the Chinese Revolution, Russian Revolution, and others "communist revolutions" then we (communists) have rarely "gone astray".:)